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[incinerator950]

Slayer299 wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

1. Technically Shepard outranks Ashley due to the date he was promoted to Lt. Cmdr. which as prior to Ashley's promotion only 6 mos ago.

2. Shepard never received a promotion (if he was getting one after the Citadel) because he was a)killed by the Collectors and a Spectre and no longer considered part of the Alliance military.
edit - typo, clarity

He was a Spectre, even though he was still a member of the Alliance Navy. He's Alliance, he was pushed forward on the Spectre candidacy as a PR stunt, even though he's more then qualified.  It's tradition to call the Commanding Officer of a Vessel Captain hon.

Not really, once he became a Spectre he was no longer Alliance Navy, its something Hackett says to you over and over during the missions you get. But yes, he should have been called Captain by the crew, but as DeadPoolMK above mentioned, it probably would have confused too many people who might be unfamiliar with the difference between Shepard's "rank" as Commander and "title" as Captain of the Normandy. *I* understand it clearly, but others not familiar, maybe not so much, although I do wish they had done it correctly.

Either I've been shot in the head lately, or I've been misnterpreting Hacket's messages about that.  It was definitely worded to sound like Shepard is on Council business, but he's still an Alliance Asset.

[Nimrodell]

It seems that Shepard is Commander now- If we look at CC - this is how his/hers rank looks like:


Each time Anderson addresses Ashley in the demo he loudly and clearly says: LT, but when he's reinstating Shepard he just says - Commander. It may be just manner of speech in addressing two different people whom he knows well - but combining that with Character creator rank info - it may actually be that Shepard is full fledged commander now.

[fetissimies]

Let me clarify this for you guys:

Shepard was a Lieutenant Commander (Lt. Cdr.) in ME1. Lieutenant Commanders are addressed as "Commander".

Shepard was promoted from Lieutenant Commander (Lt. Cdr.) to Commander (Cdr. which is the higher rank) off-screen after ME1.

Ashley earned her way from enlisted to officer and eventually Lt. Cdr.

Kaidan is a Major which is the Army equivalent of Navy Lt. Cdr.

They are both one rank below Shepard.

Modifié par fetissimies, 25 février 2012 - 11:48 .

[Aimi]

fetissimies wrote...

Kaidan is a Major which is the Army equivalent of Navy Lt. Cdr.

Nope. The Alliance doesn't operate with the current US military table of pay grades. An Alliance major is a field-grade officer with the naval equivalent grade of captain. As such, a major is two grades higher than a lieutenant commander.

[fetissimies]

daqs wrote...

fetissimies wrote...

Kaidan is a Major which is the Army equivalent of Navy Lt. Cdr.

Nope. The Alliance doesn't operate with the current US military table of pay grades. An Alliance major is a field-grade officer with the naval equivalent grade of captain. As such, a major is two grades higher than a lieutenant commander.

And where did you get that "info"?

[Aimi]

fetissimies wrote...

And where did you get that "info"?

The in-game Codex. It's reproduced here on the Mass Effect Wiki. And has been posted in this thread already.

[Vengal345]

Looks like they added a Commander rank, if shep was a Lt. Commander still it would be Lt CDR in an abbreviation.

[adawg828]

Shepard is a better leader than Kaiden and Ashley and they both know it. They would step aside to watch Shepard lead. Also, some people are saying Kaiden could just leave, where would Kaiden go, he would get killed by the Reapers within a week.

[fetissimies]

The "wiki" list is bulhs---. There's no CDR or Ensign there. Don't believe that crap.

[izmirtheastarach]

fetissimies wrote...

The "wiki" list is bulhs---. There's no CDR or Ensign there. Don't believe that crap.

I'm afraid you are mistaken. The wiki takes that list directly from the codex. You are completely wrong here, unfortunately. Neither "Commander" nor "Ensign" are ranks listed in the codex.



I'll also point out for anyone interested in the argument that in the ME1 new character screen the default Shep is listed as CDR. John Shepard, when we know he starts the game as a Lt. Commander. What the CC calls him doesn't really prove anything to me. I'm going to wait and see what he's referred to in-game. Until someone either mentions a promotion, or referes to him as Staff Commander Shepard, then I'll assume he retains his original rank.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 25 février 2012 - 05:20 .

[JunMadine]

It would be so nice if one of the devs would clarify this.

[Aimi]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I'm afraid you are mistaken. The wiki takes that list directly from the codex. You are completely wrong here, unfortunately. Neither "Commander" nor "Ensign" are ranks used in the Alliance military.

With that said, "Ensign" may be a job title. The female crew member in the SR-1's cockpit with three lines in the ME2 intro cutscene is referred to as "Ensign" in the subtitles.

[izmirtheastarach]

daqs wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I'm afraid you are mistaken. The wiki takes that list directly from the codex. You are completely wrong here, unfortunately. Neither "Commander" nor "Ensign" are ranks used in the Alliance military.

With that said, "Ensign" may be a job title. The female crew member in the SR-1's cockpit with three lines in the ME2 intro cutscene is referred to as "Ensign" in the subtitles.

Who knows. The very fact that Shep is referred to as CDR. John Shepard in the ME1 CC should be an indicator that the devs are not 100% consistant on this rank issue.

[modeseven]

daqs wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I'm afraid you are mistaken. The wiki takes that list directly from the codex. You are completely wrong here, unfortunately. Neither "Commander" nor "Ensign" are ranks used in the Alliance military.

With that said, "Ensign" may be a job title. The female crew member in the SR-1's cockpit with three lines in the ME2 intro cutscene is referred to as "Ensign" in the subtitles.

Ensign is most definitely a Naval rank and not a job title. I'm betting this thread has put more thought into the Alliance rank structure than has been spelled out difinitively whithin official ME docs and games.

[izmirtheastarach]

modeseven wrote...

Ensign is most definitely a Naval rank and not a job title. I'm betting this thread has put more thought into the Alliance rank structure than has been spelled out difinitively whithin official ME docs and games.

This is most certainly true. I also took part in a very long thread about this same topic over in the general section. There don't seem to be any clear answers, as the subject matter is not consistant.

[modeseven]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

modeseven wrote...

Ensign is most definitely a Naval rank and not a job title. I'm betting this thread has put more thought into the Alliance rank structure than has been spelled out difinitively whithin official ME docs and games.

This is most certainly true. I also took part in a very long thread about this same topic over in the general section. There don't seem to be any clear answers, as the subject matter is not consistant.

Part of the problem is ignorance about the difference between Naval ranks and Marine ranks, plus the enlisted officer dichotomy. I'd like to see it all spelled out, but as a Navy vet myself, I've always loved how authentic they've attemted to make it feel. When Shepard goes into the server rm and activates Legion and it's guarded by a marine, for example. 

[izmirtheastarach]

modeseven wrote...

Part of the problem is ignorance about the difference between Naval ranks and Marine ranks, plus the enlisted officer dichotomy. I'd like to see it all spelled out, but as a Navy vet myself, I've always loved how authentic they've attemted to make it feel. When Shepard goes into the server rm and activates Legion and it's guarded by a marine, for example. 

That on codex is about all we are ever going to get to explain the differences, I think.

[Draconis6666]

Shepards Rank honestly doesnt give him any absolute command over either Kaiden or Ashley anyway if they are both also Specters.

Beyond that Shepard definatly probably should have been promoted, however in the course of saving the galaxy he/she has done quite a few questionable things from a political standpoint, renegades expecialy.

He disobeyed direct orders and stole a prototype alliance frigate to enter the terminus systems completely unauthorized. Nuked Virmire to destroy Saren's base, which was a habitable garden world and there is a general sense of distaste against causing any sort of large scale damage to garden worlds hence the prohibition against the use of WMD on garden worlds by the council. Its very likely this could have been enough to hold back a promotion long enough for Shepard to die first, now why he wasn't posthumously promoted I can't explain that seems odd. Then the case for why he hasnt been promoted once he is resurrected is I'd think obvious. Working with a terrorist organization, the destruction of an entire Batarian colony in Arrival, etc.

[izmirtheastarach]

At the very least, he should have received a posthumous promotion after the Normandy was destroyed.

[General User]

izmirtheastarach wrote...
Actually, only Kaidan was promoted normally. Ashley is retconned in ME3. In the codex, it says the was promoted to Lieutenant Commander after the Battle of the Citadel, which is a ridiculously silly promotion.

She is made an officer and raised four grades overnight. It's impossible.

Not by a long shot.  Unusual, maybe.  But people of Ashley's skill and experience are pretty darn unusual to start with.  Historically it is quite common for persons of exceptional skill or experience to be directly commisioned as military officers of advanced rank. 

Most likely, Ashley was not "raised four grades overnight", she skipped them entirely!  Not unlike a gifted child skipping grades in school and being placed in a grade in line with their abilities.

Modifié par General User, 25 février 2012 - 06:21 .

[Draconis6666]

General User wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...
Actually, only Kaidan was promoted normally. Ashley is retconned in ME3. In the codex, it says the was promoted to Lieutenant Commander after the Battle of the Citadel, which is a ridiculously silly promotion.

She is made an officer and raised four grades overnight. It's impossible.

Not by a long shot.  Unusual, maybe.  But people of Ashley's skill and experience are pretty darn unusual to start with.  Historically it is quite common for persons of exceptional skill or experience to be directly commisioned as military officers of advanced rank. 

Most likely, Ashley was not "raised four grades overnight", she skipped them entirely!  Not unlike a gifted child skipping grades in school and being placed in a grade in line with their abilities.

Specters are political tools for the Alliance also, if Ashley is a Specter its not unlikely she recieved a political promotion to give her a rank the Alliance felt was more suitable for that position politicaly. Humans have very few Specters they want the one's they do have to look impressive to both the other races and to alliance citizens. A specter who is also a mid rank officer is much more impressive than one who is an NCO or junior officer.

[izmirtheastarach]

Again, that's not what the retcon is. According to the codex, she was promoted to Lt. Commander right after the Battle of the Citadel. It has nothing to do with her becoming a Spectre. It's just an external retcon by Bioware. They clearly wanted her to have a higher rank, so they changed the codex and made her one.

There is no explanation in the game world for it. Trying to come up with theories, while fun, doesn't really change what is in the game.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 25 février 2012 - 06:28 .

[Draconis6666]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Again, that's not what the retcon is. According to the codex, she was promoted to Lt. Commander right after the Battle of the Citadel. It has nothing to do with her becoming a Spectre. It's just an external retcon by Bioware. They clearly wanted her to have a higher rank, so they changed the codex and made her one.

There is no explanation in the game world for it. Trying to come up with theories, while fun, doesn't really change what is in the game.

Technicaly thats not automaticaly even a retcon it could just be bad wording or writing in the codex. She was promoted AFTER the battle of the citadel regardless of if it was immediately after or 10 years later. Your probably right and its probably a retcon though.

[InHarmsWay]

I think Shepard should be promoted to "Commander" from "Lt. Commander" so that at least he gets his promotion while still retaining the Commander title.

[izmirtheastarach]

InHarmsWay wrote...

I think Shepard should be promoted to "Commander" from "Lt. Commander" so that at least he gets his promotion while still retaining the Commander title.

So.. Staff Commander, you mean?