202 réponses à ce sujet

[izmirtheastarach]

DeadPoolMK wrote...

One thing I want to know is... what do the rank pins/emblems look like? It's nearly impossible to see any and when you do seem stripes, they're either black or gold. There's really no consistency to the order or placement, either.

I can understand not wearing anything that identifies rank while in combat; snipers always look to take out officers first. That doesn't explain any other time, though.

From the demo, they seem to be pretty random and inconsistant.

[gmr89]

They obviously pick ranks with a slot machine.

[Priisus]

I know Ash had been brought up but Anderson clearly states that she is a LT Commander but she is still called LT while Shepard has always been referred to as Commander since the first game. Could Shepard technically be a Staff Commander all this while (can't remember if there is an official statement that s/he is a LT Commander).

So what I mean is that if Shepard is a LT Commander, why isn't s/he addressed as LT like Anderson does regarding Ashley?

[incinerator950]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

DeadPoolMK wrote...

One thing I want to know is... what do the rank pins/emblems look like? It's nearly impossible to see any and when you do seem stripes, they're either black or gold. There's really no consistency to the order or placement, either.

I can understand not wearing anything that identifies rank while in combat; snipers always look to take out officers first. That doesn't explain any other time, though.

From ME 1, to the demo, they're still pretty random and inconsistant.

[Oblivious]

DeadPoolMK wrote...

One thing I want to know is... what do the rank pins/emblems look like? It's nearly impossible to see any and when you do seem stripes, they're either black or gold. There's really no consistency to the order or placement, either.

I can understand not wearing anything that identifies rank while in combat; snipers always look to take out officers first. That doesn't explain any other time, though.

Don't know about anything official but in the dress blues there's an obvious difference in chevrons when comparing Anderson and Shepard. So at least all those chevrons in the demo aren't random

[oneshott14]

I imagine that if Shepard hadn't gotten spaced and forced to work with Cerberus, he would likely be a Captain by this point. Though you can't really get promoted after you die, I'm surprised by the lack of a posthumous promotion. For someone as famous as he is even before the events of ME1, I would think death in the line of duty is either warrant for posthumous promotion or a fancy medal. That, and I always got the feeling that Shepard was being groomed to be the next Captain Anderson.

[Jayce]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

General User wrote...
I thought Ashley only got one promotion, ie her commission to Lt. Commander.

If that's the promotion she gets, it's the first time it's ever happened in modern human history, unless someone can provide me with an example of anything close to that ever happening.

It's actually fairly common in modern militaries.

People have this notion that because Officers and Non Commisioned Officers ranks stack in terms of Authority, they also stack in terms of responsibility and pay. They don't.

An experienced Senior NonCom invariably has more important duties and a bigger pay check than a Junior Officer.

In the US Military, particularly the Navy, senior NonComs who recieve commisions are known as 'Mustangs' and often receive a mid-rank commission, typically as a Captain or Major (Army/ Air Force/Marines) or a 1st Lieutenant or Lt. Commander (Navy). 

Ashley getting 'Mustanged' from Ops Chief to Lt. Commander is pretty normal, when it's earned. 

[Kasen]

Jayce F wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

General User wrote...
I thought Ashley only got one promotion, ie her commission to Lt. Commander.

If that's the promotion she gets, it's the first time it's ever happened in modern human history, unless someone can provide me with an example of anything close to that ever happening.

It's actually fairly common in modern militaries.

People have this notion that because Officers and Non Commisioned Officers ranks stack in terms of Authority, they also stack in terms of responsibility and pay. They don't.

An experienced Senior NonCom invariably has more important duties and a bigger pay check than a Junior Officer.

In the US Military, particularly the Navy, senior NonComs who recieve commisions are known as 'Mustangs' and often receive a mid-rank commission, typically as a Captain or Major (Army/ Air Force/Marines) or a 1st Lieutenant or Lt. Commander (Navy). 

Ashley getting 'Mustanged' from Ops Chief to Lt. Commander is pretty normal, when it's earned. 

I had no idea, makes sense to me now. Thank you for sharing, Ashley's leap in rank had me kind of confused.

[izmirtheastarach]

I'm also pleased to have someone explain this in what sounds like a believable way. Even though it will always be a retcon (since she is referred to as Ops Chief in ME2 when the ME3 codex says she was already a Lt. Commander) , at least looked at this way, the retcon makes sense. It fits well with the idea that she finally has the black mark wiped from her record, and those who have been holding her down lose sway. So the bring her up through the ranks to where she should have been.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 27 février 2012 - 07:36 .

[Sinnerj117]

I don't care what the ranking order is. I WILL NOT answer to Kaiden! Commander Shepard FTW!

[oneshott14]

Sinnerj117 wrote...

I don't care what the ranking order is. I WILL NOT answer to Kaiden! Commander Shepard FTW!

I think another common occurance on Naval ships is that even if a superior officer is aboard, that officer will still heed the words of the ship captain(i.e. An Admiral would be held accountable to the ship captin). Kaiden may be the ranking officer, but it's Sheperd's ship. Besides, Kaiden respects Sheperd too much to even think about attempting to order Sheperd around.

[oneshott14]

stupid double posts, BW why won't you let me delete my own posts?

Modifié par oneshott14, 27 février 2012 - 07:48 .

[Sinnerj117]

oneshott14 wrote...

Sinnerj117 wrote...

I don't care what the ranking order is. I WILL NOT answer to Kaiden! Commander Shepard FTW!

I think another common occurance on Naval ships is that even if a superior officer is aboard, that officer will still heed the words of the ship captain(i.e. An Admiral would be held accountable to the ship captin). Kaiden may be the ranking officer, but it's Sheperd's ship. Besides, Kaiden respects Sheperd too much to even think about attempting to order Sheperd around.

You may be right. I'll feel more comfortable when the full game comes out and being able to see how this incident plays out.

[Pelleoan]

On a vessel a Captian is the voice of god as far as everyone else is conserned. Alenko/Williams will have to obey a reinstated Shepard, since it is his/her ship.

[Oblivious]

Actually it's the Alliance's ship. All it would take is a single order for the ship to fall to Alenko/Williams and Shepard to get marooned on the nearest dustball. Who knows, maybe that's why Bioware promoted the VS so high. It'd be a funny throwback to when Shepard got his ship taken from him by Udina and the Council.

[Nyaore]

Oblivious wrote...

Actually it's the Alliance's ship. All it would take is a single order for the ship to fall to Alenko/Williams and Shepard to get marooned on the nearest dustball. Who knows, maybe that's why Bioware promoted the VS so high. It'd be a funny throwback to when Shepard got his ship taken from him by Udina and the Council.

Here's hoping it doesn't come to that, since Shepard has been known to destroy entire space stations when people go against them. But I really am curious to see how all of this will play out when you finally get on the ship. It's your ship, but the Alliance repurposed it and I don't think they'd be keen on just handing the reins back without a verbal tussle. So it could very well be that the VS's rank will come into play into getting your ship back under YOUR control.

[oneshott14]

Nyaore wrote...

Oblivious wrote...

Actually it's the Alliance's ship. All it would take is a single order for the ship to fall to Alenko/Williams and Shepard to get marooned on the nearest dustball. Who knows, maybe that's why Bioware promoted the VS so high. It'd be a funny throwback to when Shepard got his ship taken from him by Udina and the Council.

Here's hoping it doesn't come to that, since Shepard has been known to destroy entire space stations when people go against them. But I really am curious to see how all of this will play out when you finally get on the ship. It's your ship, but the Alliance repurposed it and I don't think they'd be keen on just handing the reins back without a verbal tussle. So it could very well be that the VS's rank will come into play into getting your ship back under YOUR control.

Just because the Alliance now owns the vessel does not make it any less Sheperds ship. I think some here are underestimating just how much dogmatic law and tradition is behind the position of the Captain. An Admiral may command a Captain, but the Captain will always command the ship. This practice continues to this day, because both the Admiral and the Captain know better than to rock the boat.

Even if the VS is in command of the Normandy when Sheperd leaves Earth, it's likely that they simply change command of the ship over to you as you are quite obviously in command of the ship throughout the game.

Modifié par oneshott14, 27 février 2012 - 09:18 .

[Patchwork]

I hope there's an explaination for Ashley's rank leapfrog in game but I'm not holding my breath.

Anderson addressing Ash by her full rank could be a nod to Shep's seniority or just BW not wanting to confuse the players. It's the same reason why Shepard isn't called captain even when traditionally she should.

Adding to the rank confusing is that personel in the cockpit seem to follow the Royal Air Force rank structure. So marines (the ground forces) have slightly different senior officer names and on a ship you use naval ranks *unless* you're involved with actually flying the ship then you use the RAF system. And BW thought this was a less complicated?

Modifié par Ser Bard, 27 février 2012 - 09:20 .

[Juniper Mucius]

Ser Bard wrote...

I hope there's an explaination for Ashley's rank leapfrog in game but I'm not holding my breath.

Anderson addressing Ash by her full rank could be a nod to Shep's seniority or just BW not wanting to confuse the players. It's the same reason why Shepard isn't called captain even when traditionally she should.

Adding to the rank confusing is that personel in the cockpit seem to follow the Royal Air Force rank structure. So marines (the ground forces) have slightly different senior officer names and on a ship you use naval ranks *unless* you're involved with actually flying the ship then you use the RAF system. And BW thought this was a less complicated?

Someone stated it way early.  It's obvious a mix of promotion because of skill, and politics.  The first human Spectre was ranked at Lt. Commander.  After seeing that, humans would probably think it's a joke that the next Spectre was an NCO.  "Why not choose someone more skilled!?"  So they say, "Ashley, you're a badass.  Here's you're new rank."  Also, remember that Ashley was being held back because of her ancestry.  It's very possible that Alliance Brass realized their mistake, and jumped her up in rank.  I could easily see it as a mixture of skill (you helped save the Citadel), politics (you're now a Spectre), and realizing a mistake (sorry for holding you back because of your grandfather).

[Randy1012]

I'm a big Ashley fan, but I'm also a military brat, so the sudden retcon BioWare came up with for her rank really irks me. I just like to pretend that she was promoted to Second Lieutenant after the Battle of the Citadel, then two years later during ME2 she was a Staff Lieutenant, and now in ME3 she's a Lieutenant Commander. That'd still be a pretty quick rise through the officer grades, but at least it's more plausible than her jumping from Gunnery Chief straight to Lieutenant Commander. Mustangs nearly always start out at the lowest officer grade if they're promoted out of the enlisted ranks, IIRC.

[Juniper Mucius]

Randy1083 wrote...

I'm a big Ashley fan, but I'm also a military brat, so the sudden retcon BioWare came up with for her rank really irks me. I just like to pretend that she was promoted to Second Lieutenant after the Battle of the Citadel, then two years later during ME2 she was a Staff Lieutenant, and now in ME3 she's a Lieutenant Commander. That'd still be a pretty quick rise through the officer grades, but at least it's more plausible than her jumping from Gunnery Chief straight to Lieutenant Commander. Mustangs nearly always start out at the lowest officer grade if they're promoted out of the enlisted ranks, IIRC.

Again, I tend to think the argument for it being almost primarily a political promotion to be the answer.  They could have easily said she has the skill of a Lt. Commander rank, and for the purpose of politics and Spectre business, they promoted her.  What sounds more impactful?  "Chief Williams" for a Spectre, or "Lt. Commander Williams"?  I could easily see the Council saying, "Ashley Williams would be a perfect candidate for the Spectres."  Udina, wanting everything to be perfect, and be in order politically, could have put a large amount of political pressure on the Admirals to have her jump in rank.

[oneshott14]

The Free Jaffa wrote...

Randy1083 wrote...

I'm a big Ashley fan, but I'm also a military brat, so the sudden retcon BioWare came up with for her rank really irks me. I just like to pretend that she was promoted to Second Lieutenant after the Battle of the Citadel, then two years later during ME2 she was a Staff Lieutenant, and now in ME3 she's a Lieutenant Commander. That'd still be a pretty quick rise through the officer grades, but at least it's more plausible than her jumping from Gunnery Chief straight to Lieutenant Commander. Mustangs nearly always start out at the lowest officer grade if they're promoted out of the enlisted ranks, IIRC.

Again, I tend to think the argument for it being almost primarily a political promotion to be the answer.  They could have easily said she has the skill of a Lt. Commander rank, and for the purpose of politics and Spectre business, they promoted her.  What sounds more impactful?  "Chief Williams" for a Spectre, or "Lt. Commander Williams"?  I could easily see the Council saying, "Ashley Williams would be a perfect candidate for the Spectres."  Udina, wanting everything to be perfect, and be in order politically, could have put a large amount of political pressure on the Admirals to have her jump in rank.

I'm just gonna say, that being a member of the US Military myself, I quiver in fear a lot more at the sound of "Chief" than I do at the sound of any other rank, be it Colonel or Admiral or General.

Chiefs are the baddest (insert colorful adjective here) in the force. Or Sergeant Major if you're in the Army.

[Randy1012]

Yeah, I've also never been a fan of Spectres being public figures (if the names and faces of your top special operatives are known to everyone, then you're doing it wrong), so I don't really buy that argument either. As a senior NCO, Ashley probably already had more military experience than many officers (certainly most of the junior officers). She shouldn't need a fancy rank to be "worthy" of Spectre status.

Modifié par Randy1083, 27 février 2012 - 10:34 .

[DeadPoolX]

oneshott14 wrote...

The Free Jaffa wrote...

Randy1083 wrote...

I'm a big Ashley fan, but I'm also a military brat, so the sudden retcon BioWare came up with for her rank really irks me. I just like to pretend that she was promoted to Second Lieutenant after the Battle of the Citadel, then two years later during ME2 she was a Staff Lieutenant, and now in ME3 she's a Lieutenant Commander. That'd still be a pretty quick rise through the officer grades, but at least it's more plausible than her jumping from Gunnery Chief straight to Lieutenant Commander. Mustangs nearly always start out at the lowest officer grade if they're promoted out of the enlisted ranks, IIRC.

Again, I tend to think the argument for it being almost primarily a political promotion to be the answer.  They could have easily said she has the skill of a Lt. Commander rank, and for the purpose of politics and Spectre business, they promoted her.  What sounds more impactful?  "Chief Williams" for a Spectre, or "Lt. Commander Williams"?  I could easily see the Council saying, "Ashley Williams would be a perfect candidate for the Spectres."  Udina, wanting everything to be perfect, and be in order politically, could have put a large amount of political pressure on the Admirals to have her jump in rank.

I'm just gonna say, that being a member of the US Military myself, I quiver in fear a lot more at the sound of "Chief" than I do at the sound of any other rank, be it Colonel or Admiral or General.

Chiefs are the baddest (insert colorful adjective here) in the force. Or Sergeant Major if you're in the Army.

Yeah, but you're not thinking like the general civilian populace.  If the promotion was political (and it probably was), then an officer rank sounds more experienced and knowledgable.  That may not necessarily be true, but to someone who doesn't know better -- and couldn't tell you the difference between one rank or another -- it certainly has a greater impact.

[Banefully Yours]

Say, what are the chances of a complete retcon of the Alliance rank structure?