202 réponses à ce sujet

[Randy1012]

Banefully Yours wrote...

Say, what are the chances of a complete retcon of the Alliance rank structure?

I'm surprised they haven't retconned the entire Alliance military to give it a Marine Corps and an Air Force.

[Patchwork]

The Free Jaffa wrote...

Ser Bard wrote...

I hope there's an explaination for Ashley's rank leapfrog in game but I'm not holding my breath.

Anderson addressing Ash by her full rank could be a nod to Shep's seniority or just BW not wanting to confuse the players. It's the same reason why Shepard isn't called captain even when traditionally she should.

Adding to the rank confusing is that personel in the cockpit seem to follow the Royal Air Force rank structure. So marines (the ground forces) have slightly different senior officer names and on a ship you use naval ranks *unless* you're involved with actually flying the ship then you use the RAF system. And BW thought this was a less complicated?

Someone stated it way early.  It's obvious a mix of promotion because of skill, and politics.  The first human Spectre was ranked at Lt. Commander.  After seeing that, humans would probably think it's a joke that the next Spectre was an NCO.  "Why not choose someone more skilled!?"  So they say, "Ashley, you're a badass.  Here's you're new rank."  Also, remember that Ashley was being held back because of her ancestry.  It's very possible that Alliance Brass realized their mistake, and jumped her up in rank.  I could easily see it as a mixture of skill (you helped save the Citadel), politics (you're now a Spectre), and realizing a mistake (sorry for holding you back because of your grandfather).

This is a common argument in favour of Ash's huge promotion and my problem with it is that bosses don't tend to admit they're in the wrong. Maybe it's just the jackasses I've worked for but while I can see the Alliance brass offering Ashley officer training and acting like they are doing her a favour, due to Anderson's backroom arm twisting, I can't imagine such a big promotion because it is admitting to not only their mistakes in holding her back but also their own prejudice. IMO promoting her so much raises more questions, it looks political, like a PR stunt  and doesn't do Ash's authority any favours..

As for the spectre thing, I've read the script so I'm not going to touch that. It'll be too easy for me to say more than I should.

Cheif Williams, Council Spectre sounds kinda badass to me. It distinguishes her from Commander Shepard and imo is a better PR stunt because it sends the message that *anyone* in the Alliance no matter what rank or speciality is a worthy spectre.

Modifié par Ser Bard, 27 février 2012 - 10:53 .

[Juniper Mucius]

DeadPoolMK wrote...

oneshott14 wrote...

The Free Jaffa wrote...

Randy1083 wrote...

I'm a big Ashley fan, but I'm also a military brat, so the sudden retcon BioWare came up with for her rank really irks me. I just like to pretend that she was promoted to Second Lieutenant after the Battle of the Citadel, then two years later during ME2 she was a Staff Lieutenant, and now in ME3 she's a Lieutenant Commander. That'd still be a pretty quick rise through the officer grades, but at least it's more plausible than her jumping from Gunnery Chief straight to Lieutenant Commander. Mustangs nearly always start out at the lowest officer grade if they're promoted out of the enlisted ranks, IIRC.

Again, I tend to think the argument for it being almost primarily a political promotion to be the answer.  They could have easily said she has the skill of a Lt. Commander rank, and for the purpose of politics and Spectre business, they promoted her.  What sounds more impactful?  "Chief Williams" for a Spectre, or "Lt. Commander Williams"?  I could easily see the Council saying, "Ashley Williams would be a perfect candidate for the Spectres."  Udina, wanting everything to be perfect, and be in order politically, could have put a large amount of political pressure on the Admirals to have her jump in rank.

I'm just gonna say, that being a member of the US Military myself, I quiver in fear a lot more at the sound of "Chief" than I do at the sound of any other rank, be it Colonel or Admiral or General.

Chiefs are the baddest (insert colorful adjective here) in the force. Or Sergeant Major if you're in the Army.

Yeah, but you're not thinking like the general civilian populace.  If the promotion was political (and it probably was), then an officer rank sounds more experienced and knowledgable.  That may not necessarily be true, but to someone who doesn't know better -- and couldn't tell you the difference between one rank or another -- it certainly has a greater impact.

This is pretty much what I was trying to say, but put more elegantly.  Thank you.

[Urazz]

Ser Bard wrote...

The Free Jaffa wrote...

Ser Bard wrote...

I hope there's an explaination for Ashley's rank leapfrog in game but I'm not holding my breath.

Anderson addressing Ash by her full rank could be a nod to Shep's seniority or just BW not wanting to confuse the players. It's the same reason why Shepard isn't called captain even when traditionally she should.

Adding to the rank confusing is that personel in the cockpit seem to follow the Royal Air Force rank structure. So marines (the ground forces) have slightly different senior officer names and on a ship you use naval ranks *unless* you're involved with actually flying the ship then you use the RAF system. And BW thought this was a less complicated?

Someone stated it way early. It's obvious a mix of promotion because of skill, and politics. The first human Spectre was ranked at Lt. Commander. After seeing that, humans would probably think it's a joke that the next Spectre was an NCO. "Why not choose someone more skilled!?" So they say, "Ashley, you're a badass. Here's you're new rank." Also, remember that Ashley was being held back because of her ancestry. It's very possible that Alliance Brass realized their mistake, and jumped her up in rank. I could easily see it as a mixture of skill (you helped save the Citadel), politics (you're now a Spectre), and realizing a mistake (sorry for holding you back because of your grandfather).

This is a common argument in favour of Ash's huge promotion and my problem with it is that bosses don't tend to admit they're in the wrong. Maybe it's just the jackasses I've worked for but while I can see the Alliance brass offering Ashley officer training and acting like they are doing her a favour, due to Anderson's backroom arm twisting, I can't imagine such a big promotion because it is admitting to not only their mistakes in holding her back but also their own prejudice. IMO promoting her so much raises more questions, it looks political, like a PR stunt and doesn't do Ash's authority any favours..

As for the spectre thing, I've read the script so I'm not going to touch that. It'll be too easy for me to say more than I should.

Cheif Williams, Council Spectre sounds kinda badass to me. It distinguishes her from Commander Shepard and imo is a better PR stunt because it sends the message that *anyone* in the Alliance no matter what rank or speciality is a worthy spectre.

Problem is that you don't want to facilitate that kind of thinking.  Generally, the higher skilled people get promoted.  Ash herself is quite skilled we all know but was held back due to her ancestry.  Her promotion(s) were probably part of an unverbalized/unwritten apology and a political move as well.  Not that she doesn't deserve the promotion.  She has the skills for sure and I don't think anyone questions the promotion because she was one of the heroes at the Battle of the Citadel.  That alone shows she has the skills above the rank and file.

Modifié par Urazz, 27 février 2012 - 12:47 .

[DeadPoolX]

Okay, based on this image, I've come up with a basic idea -- using the rank stripes on Shepard's and Anderson's uniforms -- of how the officer rank stripes work.

None of this is canon, obviously, and I could be completely wrong in the end.

Second Lieutenant = No Stripe
First Lieutenant = 1 Black Stripe
Staff Lieutenant = 2 Black Stripes
Lieutenant Commander = 3 Black Stripes (Shepard's uniform)
Staff Commander = 4 Black Stripes
Captain/Major = 1 Gold Stripe
Rear Admiral/General = 2 Gold Stripes
Admiral = 3 Gold Stripes (Anderson's uniform)
Fleet Admiral = 4 Gold Stripes

I have no idea what the Enlisted/NCO rank stripes or emblems would look like. If anyone has a picture that could be used to help figure it out, by all means please post or link to it.

Modifié par DeadPoolMK, 27 février 2012 - 03:48 .

[grimkillah]

Well this webpage makes this whole debate redundant.

Shepard is now Commander, while Ashley is only Lieutenant Commander. This is canon.

http://masseffect.bi...om/about/story/

[DeadPoolX]

grimkillah wrote...

Well this webpage makes this whole debate redundant.

Shepard is now Commander, while Ashley is only Lieutenant Commander. This is canon.

http://masseffect.bi...om/about/story/

Whether or not that's canon, it's at odds with the previously released Alliance ranking structure.  Unless, of course, by "Commander" they really mean "Staff Commander."  Even so, no one's said anything to that effect.

[gmr89]

Shepard is Cobra Commander
Why couldn't someone in the game call him staff commander or promote him to captain.

[DeadPoolX]

gmr89 wrote...
Shepard is Cobra Commander

So who's Destro and the Baroness?

[turian councilor Knockout]

God over mere mortals i say.

[BloodyFleelancer]

Ah I am sure shepard will be promoted as councilor or Fleet admiral when he defeats the reapers : )

[nima13]

agree wite TCK

[DiebytheSword]

After being listed KIA, Shepard should have recieved a standard two rank promotion.

That would be Major/Captain or General/Admiral depending on how you count. I could see Captain Shepard. I wouldn't even mind being told that we were busted back to Staff Commander or Lieutenant Commander.

As for Ash, its likely they need to force her ranking up high enough to command a frigate after she was made a candidate for Spectre. Even if she isn't a Spectre now, she will need those rank increases to do her job later on.

[Sr.Prize]

"I'm Commander Willaims, and this is my favorite store in the Citadel"

Shepard:"..............

Modifié par Sr.Prize, 27 février 2012 - 05:17 .

[Noble Pyro]

Maybe Admiral Hackett dies and Shepard gets promoted to Admiral. Going off the Demo, Hackett's status is unknown when Shepard leaves on the Normandy.

[izmirtheastarach]

Noble Pyro wrote...

Maybe Admiral Hackett dies and Shepard gets promoted to Admiral. Going off the Demo, Hackett's status is unknown when Shepard leaves on the Normandy.

Hackett is involved throughout the game. He's certainly not dead.

[modeseven]

Urazz wrote...


Problem is that you don't want to facilitate that kind of thinking.  Generally, the higher skilled people get promoted.  Ash herself is quite skilled we all know but was held back due to her ancestry.  Her promotion(s) were probably part of an unverbalized/unwritten apology and a political move as well.  Not that she doesn't deserve the promotion.  She has the skills for sure and I don't think anyone questions the promotion because she was one of the heroes at the Battle of the Citadel.  That alone shows she has the skills above the rank and file.

I think that's part of the issue, though. I can't speak for everyone, but Ashley's idenitiy as something of a grunt was what I liked about her. She didn't have any higher learning, she just enlisted right out of high school (something I can relate to). So while we can posit the hows and whys about her meritorious promotions, it's changed her character dramatically, even factoring in her ME2 appearance.

But this is consistent with all Sci-FI, I guess. Most roles of import are comissioned officers which propagates the theme that "rank" = skill and merit. Couldn't be further from the truth.

[DarthLaxian]

partly it is - you do not have many commanders, captains etc. (naval-ranks - thus meaning captain is the last rank before rear-admiral) that are incompetent louts i'd say, as promotions need to be signed of by the promotion board and they only promote officers that have good fitness-reports and recommendations

as for "i can relate" - sorry, i can't, not many of my family joined the military at all (i for example did not, because for me the german armed forces are something of a joke to me...i mean, look at our navy, it is much to small for such a large country, same for the airforce (and i would do anything not to join the army...might be prejudice though)) but those that did - like my father - were all officers with 6-12 years of service...so yes, if i would want to join any kind of military, then only as an officer (that is not to say that i have something against NCOs - but why stay beneath what you can achieve?...i mean i could become an officer with my education, so why become an NCO?...)

as for promoting sheppard after dying:

that would have been a way (should have been done, too), but i would have rather have had him promoted right after saving the citadel and the council (well mine did - i would never consider letting someone die if i can prevent it - even more, as it does not endanger the big picture and is better for human-alien-relations) like Ashley was (i mean: why does she deserve it, when her commanding officer was not promoted, like he should have been?)

greetings LAX

Modifié par DarthLaxian, 27 février 2012 - 07:20 .

[Banefully Yours]

Okay, based on this image, I've come up with a basic idea -- using the rank stripes on Shepard's and Anderson's uniforms -- of how the officer rank stripes work.

None of this is canon, obviously, and I could be completely wrong in the end.

Second Lieutenant = No Stripe
First Lieutenant = 1 Black Stripe
Staff Lieutenant = 2 Black Stripes
Lieutenant Commander = 3 Black Stripes (Shepard's uniform)
Staff Commander = 4 Black Stripes
Captain/Major = 1 Gold Stripe
Rear Admiral/General = 2 Gold Stripes
Admiral = 3 Gold Stripes (Anderson's uniform)
Fleet Admiral = 4 Gold Stripes

I have no idea what the Enlisted/NCO rank stripes or emblems would look like. If anyone has a picture that could be used to help figure it out, by all means please post or link to it.

If you take a look at the profile pictures, you'll find one with Hackett(I think it was him anyways) and his uniform only has two black stripes. He's supposed to be an Admiral, isn't he?

All of this confuses me.

[Banefully Yours]

^Phone screwed me over.

[chaosomegas]

Spectres have no command structure. They answer only to the Council,
and in some cases the Council prefers not to know the exact details of
how a Spectre accomplishes their mission. Spectres act in any way they
see fit, either with careful diplomacy or ruthless force, being
officially above any law. Some people, like Executor Pallin, see Spectres as a potential risk because they are not constrained by the law, while others are in awe of them; Officer Eddie Lang
mentions Spectres on vids are portrayed as super-agents always on some
mission to save the galaxy. The assignment of a Spectre is often less
contentious than a military deployment, but shows that the Council is
aware of a situation.
Candidates for the Spectres typically have years of military or
law enforcement experience before even being considered. The screening
process involves background checks, psychological evaluations, and a
long period of field training under an experienced mentor. Because of
the rigorous selection process, Spectres might sometimes use unorthodox
methods but they rarely go rogue. When it does happen, the only solution
is to revoke their status, then send another Spectre after them. No one
else would be up to the job:ph34r:

Modifié par chaosomegas, 27 février 2012 - 08:33 .

[gmr89]

DeadPoolMK wrote...

gmr89 wrote...
Shepard is Cobra Commander

So who's Destro and the Baroness?

Garrus and Miranda.

[CerberusSoldier]

Op technically he is also the captain of the SR 2 as well Commander . he has all the rights and access of a Captain on board the SR 2

[Draconis6666]

Banefully Yours wrote...


If you take a look at the profile pictures, you'll find one with Hackett(I think it was him anyways) and his uniform only has two black stripes. He's supposed to be an Admiral, isn't he?

All of this confuses me.

He's actualy supposed to have been promoted to be the commander of all alliance forces.

So he's probably something above admiral 

[General User]

I think so too.

I heard Adm. Hackett was the commander of the entire Alliance military. If so, it's possible that he's the only person in the Alliance of his rank, and thus he has unique insignia.

Modifié par General User, 28 février 2012 - 12:43 .