132 réponses à ce sujet

[darkangelvxvx]

 

[BatmanPWNS]

They won the lottery and TIM just wanted to show off.

[Dean_the_Young]

Mhorhe83 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Except, of course, that Cerberus bankrupting itself for an extended time was an explicit point of ME2, while Cerberus being scalped and having to rebuild from a significantly reduced stature was an explicit ending point of Retribution.

I haven't read Retribution - unfortunately the Mass Effect novels seemed to me to be quite terrible - but the notion of Cerberus bankrupting itself for an extended time in ME 2 was not an explicit point.

You do know, of course, that they did pour most of their finances into the Normandy and Lazarus. That's not quite bankrupting, though. And then ME 2 starts, and they kind of start earning cash back.

In ME2, Miranda and TIM make clear not only that Shepard was an investment, but that Cerberus would be a while before it recovered to it's pre-Lazarus abilities.

While Shepard can be said to have brough in assets, these assets aren't the monetary kind, or the kind that turn into monetary recoupment. Which is what Cerberus was hurting for afterwards. A buildup needs funds as well as technology, and the closest thing to a revenue source Shepard can provide Cerberus is resources locations. Which in no way are implied to recoup the monetary losses of Lazarus so quickly.

I skimmed the Retribution storyline just now, at a glance it would appear like another failed Cerberus experiment like so many before it - if perhaps more extreme. Doesn't look like that major a setback.

The reason that the Cerberus experiment fails is because, thanks to Grayson's blackmail material of Cerberus agents, assets, and projects getting to Anderson, Anderson was able to tip off the Turians who launched a wide-spread attack on a large number of Cerberus assets (including the Grayson experiment).

The loss of so much of the network isn't fatal, but it is cast as something that would take a good time to recover from because large parts of the network would have to be rebuilt from scratch.

[Bad King]

Because the plot demanded it. Cerberus was pretty much in tatters at the end of Retribution, but the BioWare devs needed an antagonist in the game so sometime after ME2 they decided that Cerberus would be that antagonist. This meant that they needed them to be more than just a few covert cells so BioWare decided that they'd randomly pull a huge army out of the hat.

[Mhorhe83]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
In ME2, Miranda and TIM make clear not only that Shepard was an investment, but that Cerberus would be a while before it recovered to it's pre-Lazarus abilities.

While Shepard can be said to have brough in assets, these assets aren't the monetary kind, or the kind that turn into monetary recoupment. Which is what Cerberus was hurting for afterwards. A buildup needs funds as well as technology, and the closest thing to a revenue source Shepard can provide Cerberus is resources locations. Which in no way are implied to recoup the monetary losses of Lazarus so quickly.

Oh no, not at all. Basically *everything* that Shep brings in is worth cash, and loads of it.

Resource cashes - especially so many locations rich in eezo? A lot of money in the right hands.

Experimental personal or naval weaponry and armor? Likewise.

Information? Likewise.

And TIM is more than likely to find those right hands.

Dean_the_Young wrote...
The reason that the Cerberus experiment fails is because, thanks to Grayson's blackmail material of Cerberus agents, assets, and projects getting to Anderson, Anderson was able to tip off the Turians who launched a wide-spread attack on a large number of Cerberus assets (including the Grayson experiment).

The loss of so much of the network isn't fatal, but it is cast as something that would take a good time to recover from because large parts of the network would have to be rebuilt from scratch.

Ah, I see. Then you have a point. I hope this is explained in some way in ME 3, then.

Modifié par Mhorhe83, 25 février 2012 - 09:08 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Mhorhe83 wrote...

Oh no, not at all. Basically *everything* that Shep brings in is worth cash, and loads of it.

Resource cashes - especially so many locations rich in eezo? A lot of money in the right hands.

Experimental personal or naval weaponry and armor? Likewise.

Information? Likewise.

And TIM is more than likely to find those right hands.

Over time? Yes. In the short-term, as in less than a year?

I disagree that it would match the cost of the Lazarus, even if TIM sold tech willy-nilly. Hundreds of millions, perhaps, but not a full recoup.

Dean_the_Young wrote...
The reason that the Cerberus experiment fails is because, thanks to Grayson's blackmail material of Cerberus agents, assets, and projects getting to Anderson, Anderson was able to tip off the Turians who launched a wide-spread attack on a large number of Cerberus assets (including the Grayson experiment).

The loss of so much of the network isn't fatal, but it is cast as something that would take a good time to recover from because large parts of the network would have to be rebuilt from scratch.

Ah, I see. Then you have a point. I hope this is explained in some way in ME 3, then.

It isn't, at least not in the leaked script. Not the finances and information network, at least.

Basically, all the fleets and equipment and spies that Cerberus has, they stockpiled before and weren't lost. That's the part that isn't explained as of yet.

All the troops come into play are, and quite early. In fact, it's not the 'how Cerberus gets an army' that annoys me*, but how it supplies them. Which, to be frank, is the lore-hole that Bioware probably has the least interest in.


*I think it would have been better if Cerberus only had the army via Collector Base, both in terms of recruitment and supplying them with Collector tech. But that would have meant Cerberus wouldn't be a primary enemy.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 25 février 2012 - 09:21 .

[Combine911]

if you look back to the 1500' you will see whole nations payed mercenaries army (I mean like thousands of Thousands of Soldiers) to invade countrys like Italy and so forth.

Its not new for PMC or mercenaries (W/E you want to call them) to become a huge army. Unliike today in Mass effect there are alot of Humans who dislike Aliens (as stated in ME2) and from what I gatherd the Human race on Earth is united as one so I wouldn't be suppised if Hundred of Thousands of people joined Cerberus from Earth as there would be a Ton of people who take liking the Cerberus

[Epsilon330]

They siphoned data from Garrus' calibrations; allowing them to control the minds of anyone they choose to.
They also found the ultimate coffee blend recipe and a copy of Fleet and Flotilla in there, for some reason.

[Dave of Canada]

Indoctrination.

[Bad King]

Combine911 wrote...

if you look back to the 1500' you will see whole nations payed mercenaries army (I mean like thousands of Thousands of Soldiers) to invade countrys like Italy and so forth.

Its not new for PMC or mercenaries (W/E you want to call them) to become a huge army. Unliike today in Mass effect there are alot of Humans who dislike Aliens (as stated in ME2) and from what I gatherd the Human race on Earth is united as one so I wouldn't be suppised if Hundred of Thousands of people joined Cerberus from Earth as there would be a Ton of people who take liking the Cerberus

It's not just about the sheer amount of people in the army, it's also about where they got the resources from to train and arm them all!

Explanation:

[snakeboy86]

You do realize we didnt see everything cerberus had up its sleeve? Right?

[Dave of Canada]

snakeboy86 wrote...

You do realize we didnt see everything cerberus had up its sleeve? Right?

Except what Cerberus has up it's sleeves has nothing to do with it's growth / strength.

[Verkir]

I heard from people in the MP during wave 10 chats on gold that the troops were all cloned and indoctrinated. For example guardians are like vegax20 and phantoms are Miranda with a hood on.

anyone else hear this?

[Mhorhe83]

Well it seems we should we trust bio more.  Some info!


http://blog.bioware..../alliancenews4/

Combine911 wrote...
if you look back to the 1500' you will
see whole nations payed mercenaries army (I mean like thousands of
Thousands of Soldiers) to invade countrys like Italy and so
forth.

The Papal Swiss Guard is a remnant of those times. The Swiss had exported so many mercenaries in the 15the century at one point the Diete recalled them all home because they were almost defenceless.

[snakeboy86]

Dave of Canada wrote...

snakeboy86 wrote...

You do realize we didnt see everything cerberus had up its sleeve? Right?

Except what Cerberus has up it's sleeves has nothing to do with it's growth / strength.

What I meant was that we didnt see all of cerberus's resources/operations, whos to say TIM didnt have a whole army?

[Mhorhe83]

edit: double post fail.

Modifié par Mhorhe83, 25 février 2012 - 11:19 .

[Mhorhe83]

Saphra Deden wrote...

With that logic we could justify anything.

Not a very good argument.

We have to go by what we do know, by what we've been told and what has been implied or suggested. Otherwise we could say anybody might have a secret army or a Deathstar or what-have-you.

http://blog.bioware..../alliancenews4/

[SovereignWillReturn]

Okay, here's my question. If Cerberus had this huge army up its sleeves, then why didn't they try to help Shepard at all during ME2?

[izmirtheastarach]

SovereignWillReturn wrote...

Okay, here's my question. If Cerberus had this huge army up its sleeves, then why didn't they try to help Shepard at all during ME2?

The army is created between the end of ME2 and the beginning of ME3.

[redbaron76]

They are indoctrinated, and there fore poses reaper technology and there fore they can build armies all they want, but they still only account for 40% percent of opposition to shepard and they are not everywhere.

[NOSAR]

Seboist wrote...

Cerberus is plot clay. That's all there is to it.

I support your banner

[Blacklash93]

It wouldn't be so implausable if there was more time between ME2 and ME3.

I won't spoil how Cerberus made the army, but if they had a year instead of 6 months I would have seen it as believable.

I support your banner

I know, right? I'm proud to support both sexualities. Only idiots see a contradiction there.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 26 février 2012 - 12:01 .