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Cerberus expansion deemed "significant threat" - Alliance News Network


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#26
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LumpOfCole wrote...

If Cerberus got too deep into Reaper things as a result of the other side of the Omega 4 Relay post-Mass Effect 2 (ME: Invsasion shows that they got their hands on Reaper things whether or not you destroyed the collector base, and that effect on ME3 remains to be seen), then post-Retribution Cerberus and post-ME2 Cerberus are at two different levels of capability.


Uhh... no.

None of that enables Cerberus to build up a massive fleet, establish bases all over the galaxy, and recruit enough bodies. Not without being exposed to their enemies.

This also ignores the fact that after ME2 and Retribution Cerberus was suffering a lack of materials, finances, and personnel.

#27
phimseto

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Cerberus acted while the Council dithered. If the Council spent that kind of time and effort investigating the Reaper menace instead of moping over Cerberus, then maybe the galaxy would be better prepared. The galaxy owes Cerberus a debt because without them, the rest would all be so much Reaper chow by now.

Modifié par phimseto, 25 février 2012 - 04:09 .


#28
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Nathan Redgrave wrote...

I doubt they're stupid enough to let their recruitment efforts be so traceable as to actually jeopardize anything of importance.


You cannot recruit this many people and keep it a secret. Much less train them and equip them and actually use them.

It's ridiculous.

#29
Dean_the_Young

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Shermos wrote...

BlackDoomShadow wrote...

So this confirms Cerberus's sudden army isn't random and is actually addressed in the game.


It was never really random. Cerberus expansion was being hinted at even in the early part of ME2. The expansion only accelerated after the end of ME2, it didn't come from nowhere.

Not really. The implication of ME2 was that Cerberus bankrupted itself for some time bringing back Shepard and giving him the Normandy, while Retribution was primarily about cutting Cerberus down to size. Both the game and the book shared the impetus of decreasing Cerberus.

The actual Cerberus (re)expansion begins after the Retribution story ends. The means will be addressed in the game, but they're very much things that weren't known beforehand.

#30
Mahrac

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say it with me:

noooooo, ya THINK!?!

#31
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Dean_the_Young wrote...

The actual Cerberus (re)expansion begins after the Retribution story ends. The means will be addressed in the game, but they're very much things that weren't known beforehand.


Retribution was a fun read so I'm very glad that Bioware rendered the entire experience pointless.

#32
CerberusSoldier

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AeonFrog wrote...

CerberusSoldier wrote...

Oh so STG and Asari Commandos are fine but a pro human group is not . maybe the alliance needs a army oh wait I forgot they don't want war only peace


I like to think that the N7 is the human equivalent of the STG and Asari commandos, not Cerberus.

    


us humans need a group to stand up for us in the ME universe

#33
Mahrac

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CerberusSoldier wrote...

AeonFrog wrote...

CerberusSoldier wrote...

Oh so STG and Asari Commandos are fine but a pro human group is not . maybe the alliance needs a army oh wait I forgot they don't want war only peace


I like to think that the N7 is the human equivalent of the STG and Asari commandos, not Cerberus.

    


us humans need a group to stand up for us in the ME universe


Then can we get one that doesn't blow eezo freighters over colonies and assassinate our admirals, political leaders, and the friggen pope?

#34
Nathan Redgrave

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The actual Cerberus (re)expansion begins after the Retribution story ends. The means will be addressed in the game, but they're very much things that weren't known beforehand.


Retribution was a fun read so I'm very glad that Bioware rendered the entire experience pointless.


Right. And if they had gone down the "Cerberus is a total non-entity" route, we'd all be complaining that BioWare killed off the awesome pro-human black ops organization in a peripheral novel rather than in-game.

There's no way BioWare could have possibly won the game, is there? ...Damn it, I just lost...

#35
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Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Right. And if they had gone down the "Cerberus is a total non-entity" route, we'd all be complaining that BioWare killed off the awesome pro-human black ops organization in a peripheral novel rather than in-game.


No, that isn't true at all. I would be happy and the Biodrones are always happy.

ME2 and especially Retribution suggested Cerberus was being set up for a smaller role in ME3. They weren't going to be the stars anymore. It makes thematic sense.

ME3 is when the Reapers arrive and now more than ever Shepard needs allies, only he has none.

The Alliance and Council have turned on him for his work with Cerberus and Cerberus has been defanged, unable to provide support anymore.

Furthermore, Cerberus having a smaller role would have given the player more choice with how to interact with them. If you felt ME2 did not justify their existence or actions then in ME3 you can wipe them out while they're weak. If on the other hand you felt they were worthy advocates of humanity then you could help them recover.

Either option could have good/bad effects.

We could then keep the Reapers on as the main antagonists.

#36
Escapulario100

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Mahrac wrote...

CerberusSoldier wrote...

AeonFrog wrote...

CerberusSoldier wrote...

Oh so STG and Asari Commandos are fine but a pro human group is not . maybe the alliance needs a army oh wait I forgot they don't want war only peace


I like to think that the N7 is the human equivalent of the STG and Asari commandos, not Cerberus.

    


us humans need a group to stand up for us in the ME universe


Then can we get one that doesn't blow eezo freighters over colonies and assassinate our admirals, political leaders, and the friggen pope?

I'm agree with this guy. Maybe a upgrade version of the N7? BTW: They killed 
the friggen pope!? :blink:

#37
Yuqi

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The Alliance and Cerberus are in each others pants.

#38
Mahrac

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Escapulario100 wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

CerberusSoldier wrote...

AeonFrog wrote...

CerberusSoldier wrote...

Oh so STG and Asari Commandos are fine but a pro human group is not . maybe the alliance needs a army oh wait I forgot they don't want war only peace


I like to think that the N7 is the human equivalent of the STG and Asari commandos, not Cerberus.

    

us humans need a group to stand up for us in the ME universe


Then can we get one that doesn't blow eezo freighters over colonies and assassinate our admirals, political leaders, and the friggen pope?

I'm agree with this guy. Maybe a upgrade version of the N7? BTW: They killed 
the friggen pope!? :blink:



2171 in the shadow broker dossiers

#39
ActingIsLyf

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Woo! Almost thought this wasn't going to get posted today. Glad to be wrong! I still don't know what article I'll make a video of next. I think I might do two in one.

#40
Pee Jae

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Bah! Cerberus is nothing more than a fringe group of anti-alien elitists. I doubt we'll hear anything but grumbling from them. Surely, the Alliance would do something if they thought Cerberus were a real threat.

#41
Sanguine

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Cerberus found the star forge?

#42
Dave of Canada

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Yuqi wrote...

The Alliance and Cerberus are in each others pants.


Na, that'd place the Alliance in an unfavorable light so they abandoned that concept.

#43
Big I

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 I like how the report portrays the STG going to the Council and saying " we believe Cerberus is trouble", and the Council response is "what? The Spectres (Shepard) told us that years ago. Didn't you get the memo?" lol

#44
Dean_the_Young

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Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The actual Cerberus (re)expansion begins after the Retribution story ends. The means will be addressed in the game, but they're very much things that weren't known beforehand.


Retribution was a fun read so I'm very glad that Bioware rendered the entire experience pointless.


Right. And if they had gone down the "Cerberus is a total non-entity" route, we'd all be complaining that BioWare killed off the awesome pro-human black ops organization in a peripheral novel rather than in-game.


Cerberus could easily have been relevant without dominating the plot, strong enough to be relevant without being overpowering, and both an ally and an untrustworthy betrayer.


Consider this mental exercise: Cerberus isn't the 40% enemy of the game. If anyone is needed, blame the Batarian Hegemony for making a deal with the devils. Most those Cerberus troopers look like Batarian helments anyway.

Anyways: alternate Cerberus scenario.




Shepard is looking for the MacGuffin that will help complete the Super MacGuffin that will beat the Reapers, since a conventional assault won't work. Shepard tries and tries, but in one particular mission, Shepard fails. The Reapers are too prepared, perhaps, and it's a trap that Shepard barely survives, but loses the Artifact.

Cerberus, however, intervenes and is able to seize the critical MacGuffin piece that Shepard needs to save the galaxy.

Cue a call from TIM, saying he's willing to negotiate a trade. In exchange for the MacGuffin, as well as Cerberus support for the MacGuffin Project and Cerberus forces for Earth, TIM wants Concessions. With a capital C.
Recognition, legitimacy, power, a de facto legalization of Cerberus in the name of the common cause.

As a suggestion, TIM's price is SPECTRE status for himself... and as Spectres are above the law, as is their operations, doing so would be a de facto legalization of Cerberus. If not TIM, it could be one of TIM's hand-picked subordinates (Kai Leng?) to be his proxy.

So in exchange for Cerberus being beyond the reach of the law, effectively untouchable, and being able to do most anything they want openly... Cerberus offers the MacGuffin, its own tech-knowhow for the project, and its own forces for the liberation of Earth. If you kept the Collector Base, naturally Cerberus has a lot more resources to contribute, including the canonical army source. If you didn't, Cerberus has a lot less.


And here's where the choice comes in. TIM wants/needs Shepard to make the Council agree to the deal: after the Reapers finally vindicate Shepard, Shepard has the pull. But Shepard doesn't have to: either Shepard launches a raid to steal the MacGuffin from Cerberus, or Shepard calls TIM's bluff of holding the galaxy hostage, and TIM folds and hands over the MacGuffin.

No alliance. No legalization of Cerberus. No forces for the alliance, no tech know-how, and most importantly Cerberus is marginalized to the side of the war: rather than openly help Human colonies, Cerberus is on the fringes. Albeit very big fringes, if they have the Base and the Cerberus Army.





So a Big Decision, with War Assets and common cause and Consequences as the obvious effects. Right? But Cerberus is untrustworthy. Everyone says so.



That comes into play later. Right after the liberation of Earth, in which Cerberus assets contribute to the victory over the Reapers and opening of the opportunity for the MacGuffin to win the war.

Right after the opening, when Cerberus stabs the organics in the back and makes their own play for the wonderweapon to fulfill their secret plan. Unless you didn't side with them, of course, in which case Cerberus shows up after the battle, after the Reapers and Organics have wiped eachother out, and attempts to seize the Wonder Weapon. Turns out that the real reason they wanted to ally with the Council was to get their scientists onboard the wonder weapon project to make their desired changes to the weapon before it's used.

Now Cerberus has turned into an antagonist at a key point, and Shepard has to regain control of the Wonder Weapon to win the game, beating up Cerberus as he goes. When Shepard finally controls the Wonder Weapon, the end-game is upon us and we get to choose the ending.

If you allied with Cerberus, or if you didn't ally with Cerberus but gave them the base in ME2, then the extra time/knowledge Cerberus has allows an extra ending not otherwise available, and Cerberus survives past the game. If you stridently opposed them, the Cerberus-ending is absent, and the organization is crushed.


Shepard makes his/her decision, and the war is won.







That's an example of how Cerberus could have been done. Never supplanting the plot, and offering both roleplaying preferences and validation for both sides.

People who think Cerberus is worth the cost can feel validated by the fact that Cerberus does contribute to the survival of Earth, and that giving them the base gives more assets: these benefits can be viewed as outweighing the cost of betrayal. Working with Cerberus, and the costs therein, are their choice, and Cerberus's survival past the end-game is a result of their choices.

People who hate Cerberus, however, are free to oppose them the entire way. Their suspicions of insincerity and duplicity are validated by the eleventh-hour betrayal that occurs no matter what. They are free to spit in Cerberus's face, and even ruin Cerberus's fate by leading to the downfall of the organization. The assets they lose are their choice, but they can hurt what they view as a cancer to the galaxy.


In this way, Cerberus plays the roles of both friend and foe, reliable and treacherous, and all without shoehorning anyone into a committed relationship one way or another. Cerberus doesn't need to be the major player for the rest of the plot, nor is it suffering an absence.

#45
Oblivious

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Saphra Deden wrote...

AeonFrog wrote...

I like to think that the N7 is the human equivalent of the STG and Asari commandos, not Cerberus.


No, N7 are just Navy Seals. Elite, but they're just soldiers.

STG/Cerberus is in essence more like CIA/NSA and such.

N7 doesn't do anything STG wouldn't. According to the first book, the beginning of ME, and the news report in ME2 they conduct deep-insertion raids, recon, and intelligence. It also warrants to say that they may conduct assassinations and sabotage.

The problem is that we have no idea who N7 answer to. According to Shepard/Miranda STG and Commandos answer to their respective governments and take orders from them. We don't know if N7 are like a "regular" SEAL team who belongs to SOCOM but are liable to report to the overall commander of their theatre of operation, or if they're like Delta Force/SEAL team 6 and take order directly from the government, ignoring chain of command.

I personally view N7 as the beginning of humanity's answer to the whole STG/Commando dilemma. But more importantly: who do the Turians have to conduct black operations? :whistle:

#46
Comsky159

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The second apostrophe in the second line of the second paragraph is facing the wrong way.

Pre-order cancelled.

#47
Backup Magus

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Oblivious wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

AeonFrog wrote...

I like to think that the N7 is the human equivalent of the STG and Asari commandos, not Cerberus.


No, N7 are just Navy Seals. Elite, but they're just soldiers.

STG/Cerberus is in essence more like CIA/NSA and such.

N7 doesn't do anything STG wouldn't. According to the first book, the beginning of ME, and the news report in ME2 they conduct deep-insertion raids, recon, and intelligence. It also warrants to say that they may conduct assassinations and sabotage.

The problem is that we have no idea who N7 answer to. According to Shepard/Miranda STG and Commandos answer to their respective governments and take orders from them. We don't know if N7 are like a "regular" SEAL team who belongs to SOCOM but are liable to report to the overall commander of their theatre of operation, or if they're like Delta Force/SEAL team 6 and take order directly from the government, ignoring chain of command.

I personally view N7 as the beginning of humanity's answer to the whole STG/Commando dilemma. But more importantly: who do the Turians have to conduct black operations? :whistle:


Given that N7 is a vocational military code, it's probably pretty safe to assume they answer to the military command structure, just like any other special operations force.

#48
capn233

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What is clear is that Cerberus found the Star Forge on the other side of the Omega 4 Relay.

#49
The Great and Powerful Trixie

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Saphra Deden wrote...

AeonFrog wrote...

I like to think that the N7 is the human equivalent of the STG and Asari commandos, not Cerberus.


No, N7 are just Navy Seals. Elite, but they're just soldiers.

STG/Cerberus is in essence more like CIA/NSA and such.


Comparing Cerberus to the NSA doesn't really make sense. The NSA is an intelligence gathering agency. Cerberus is more of an extremist group than anything.

#50
aj2070

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That should answer the "Where did Cerberus get the big army from" question...