148 réponses à ce sujet

[Phaedon]

daqs wrote...

Chewin3 wrote...

Sadly, most people here don't even know the definition for deus ex machina.

IT IS A BAD PLOT DEVICE

...and that's basically it. So sad. I mean, it's obviously too much to hope for a reference to Euripides, let alone Aristophanes' Thesmophoriazousai, but they could still have the grace to know that it's a completely unforeshadowed, literally last-second divine intervention that has no precedence whatsoever in the plot.

Side note: how've you been liking Crusader Kings II? I've been following it, but I'm afraid I won't buy it until somebody comes up with a decent mod to fix the Byzantine Empire and its ridiculously ahistorical adhesion to the general Western European quasi-feudal mishmash social system that apparently everybody in Europe seems to go along with.

This guy (or gal) knows what s/he's talking about.

EDIT: If we go with a translation of the ancient Greek term to modern Greek, we can imagine a greek deity riding a motorcycle. Dohohoho. 

Modifié par Phaedon, 25 février 2012 - 01:10 .

[Aimi]

Phaedon wrote...

At least in the original definition of DEM. A lot of good ancient tragedies have DEMs, though, they are just not tolerated as much as Mc Guffins today.

Meh. Alkestis kinda sucked. Never actually read Medeia, but I've always had the impression that it's overrated.

[McAllyster]

I would do two things:

a., launch a "Noah's Ark" with soldiers, scientists, genetic samples, etc. to far-far away; if we lose everything, humanity should survive. When the Reapers comes back 50000 years later our grand-grand-grand-grand-grand children will give them a nasty surprise
b., try to lure reapers to the Citadel - and blow it up when every reapers are there. Because the Citadel is a giant mass relay it should be enough to kill them.

[Phaedon]

Take that as you will, as I am a relatively casual reader of ancient tragedies, but a lot of them are overrated by modern standards, imo.

Of course, the fact that these were crafted millenia ago, give them a special kind of value. Especialyl when placed into context. Like Ιππείς or Ειρήνη. You just need to study them more in depth to really appreciate them, I suppose.

Modifié par Phaedon, 25 février 2012 - 01:14 .

[LiquidLogic2020]

I would of waited for them to come through the alpha relay and THEN crashed the asteroid into it. Failing that search for Mc Guffin.

[Aimi]

Phaedon wrote...

Take that as you will, as I am a relatively casual reader of ancient tragedies, but a lot of them are overrated by modern standards, imo.

Of course, the fact that these were crafted millenia ago, give them a special kind of value. Especialyl when placed into context. Like Ιππείς or Ειρήνη. You just need to study them more in depth to really appreciate them, I suppose.

Oh, yeah, I agree that we're probably using different metrics to evaluate them than people Back in the Day did. I'm more familiar with comedies, and pretty much all of the Hellenistic playwrights claimed that Menandros was basically the best ever - and then we found Dyskolos in the seventies, and it kinda sucked, full of weird and fantastical devices seemingly just to extend the length of the play and the comedic tension.

Still, no less an authority than Aristotelis took Euripides to task for using the mechane, and the whole reason we have the term deus ex machina is because Horatius decided to inveigh against the device in his Ars Poetica. So it's not like it was universally all that well regarded in classical times, either.

[lukex38]

i remeber reading a while back that there isnt going to be Deus Ex Machina type thing, well maybe a little one, but there isnt going to be something that can destroy all the reapers at once or something stupid like that

[FluffyScarf]

No other way. ME 1 already established that Reapers can simply smash through other ships. If it was a traditional broadside engagement, they'd be contradicting previous games, which would only make the fanatics here even madder.

Heck, it was only after we killed Saren's evil mechanical frog twin, and through sustained firepower against a Reaper that was in a vulnerable position did we destroy it. Beating thousands of them in a straight up fire fight would be more ridiculous.

Modifié par FluffyScarf, 25 février 2012 - 01:24 .

[JaegerBane]

FluffyScarf wrote...

No other way. ME 1 already established that Reapers can simply smash through other ships. If it was a traditional broadside engagement, they'd be contradicting previous games, which would only make the fanatics here even madder.

Exactly. I thought the whole point behind the Reapers was that they couldn't be defeated without a deus ex machina. I mean, wasn't that the whole point behind both previous games?

[FluffyScarf]

And what about Klendagon. It's not some secret that an ancient, giant mass accelerator weapon exists. Did TiM ever mention specifics about it in ME 2?

And there's even an old thread about it: http://social.biowar...index/3118616/1

Modifié par FluffyScarf, 25 février 2012 - 01:30 .

[GnusmasTHX]

Paragon interrupt.

[JaegerBane]

FluffyScarf wrote...

And what about Klendagon. It's not some secret that an ancient, giant mass accelerator weapon exists. Did TiM ever mention specifics about it in ME 2?

Only that it was defunct.

So, presumably, in the same state as Purgatory was post-riot.

[Aimi]

FluffyScarf wrote...

I'm surprised that Klendagon hasn't been brought up. It's not some secret that an ancient, giant mass accelerator weapon exists. Did TiM ever mention specifics about it in ME 2?

"...a very old mass accelerator weapon. The weapon was defunct, but it allowed us to plot the flight path of the intended target - a twenty-six million year old derelict Reaper."

That's all I can remember from the game. Only relevant information is a) it's old and it doesn't work.

[FluffyScarf]

Either way, we know that a giant cannon can damage/disable the Reapers. We also know it existed, albeit millions of years ago. No reason why Shep won't try to rebuild something similar. It's all he has to go on.

Modifié par FluffyScarf, 25 février 2012 - 01:33 .

[GnusmasTHX]

FluffyScarf wrote...

Either way, we know that a giant cannon can damage/disable the Reapers. We also know it existed, albeit millions of years ago. No reason why Shep won't try to rebuild something similar. It's all he has to go on.

Except we also know it was terribly ineffective. 

He's better off fitting larger Thanix cannons on everything than banking on a giant cannon that has, historically, only been fired once to kill only one Reaper.

It most likely blew up when it fired.

[Phaedon]

daqs wrote...

Oh, yeah, I agree that we're probably using different metrics to evaluate them than people Back in the Day did. I'm more familiar with comedies, and pretty much all of the Hellenistic playwrights claimed that Menandros was basically the best ever - and then we found Dyskolos in the seventies, and it kinda sucked, full of weird and fantastical devices seemingly just to extend the length of the play and the comedic tension.

Still, no less an authority than Aristotelis took Euripides to task for using the mechane, and the whole reason we have the term deus ex machina is because Horatius decided to inveigh against the device in his Ars Poetica. So it's not like it was universally all that well regarded in classical times, either.

If I am not mistaken, we haven't necessarilly seen the best of the best of Greek plays, the grand majority of them hasn't survived. Well, we do know that everyone regarded Homer's works just as we regard Tolkien's though, hahah. 

[JaegerBane]

FluffyScarf wrote...

Either way, we know that a giant cannon can damage/disable the Reapers. We also know it existed, albeit millions of years ago. No reason why Shep won't try to rebuild something similar. It's all he has to go on.

We don't necessarily know that it *did* work.

From what the evidence suggests, its targeting was not only off (nearly Death Star-ing a planet in the way) but its target basically shut down and neatly sat itself in the orbit of a brown dwarf.

Realistically, I'd be very surprised if the Reapers are defeated purely by building bigger guns.

[Nathan Redgrave]

I would put my head between my knees and kiss my arse goodbye.

Seriously, it's not likely to happen.

[OdanUrr]

Using a gigantic space mirror to trick them into culling another galaxy.

[Aimi]

Phaedon wrote...

If I am not mistaken, we haven't necessarilly seen the best of the best of Greek plays, the grand majority of them hasn't survived. Well, we do know that everyone regarded Homer's works just as we regard Tolkien's though, hahah. 

Well, that's kind of true. A lot of them haven't survived, but there are some pretty strong indications that the ones that have were the ones that the classical Greeks liked the best. Roger Pearse, an excellent modern scholar, once derided the notion of lost wisdom of the ancients by referring to his then-current work, slogging through recently-recovered philosophical texts by an Athenian philosopher so obscure that he does not even appear in Diogenes Laertios' catalog...well, there's a reason he was so obscure, namely, because he sucked both at philosophy and at literary composition.

Of course, there are legitimately good lost plays and histories, some of which would have huge amounts of relevance if ever recovered. Arrianus' After Alexander or Hieronymos of Kardia's full history of the Successors would be immensely valuable, speaking of areas in which I actually have some expertise. But it's hard for me to believe that the dross survived and the good fell into abeyance.

[Phaedon]

daqs wrote...
Well, that's kind of true. A lot of them haven't survived, but there are some pretty strong indications that the ones that have were the ones that the classical Greeks liked the best. Roger Pearse, an excellent modern scholar, once derided the notion of lost wisdom of the ancients by referring to his then-current work, slogging through recently-recovered philosophical texts by an Athenian philosopher so obscure that he does not even appear in Diogenes Laertios' catalog...well, there's a reason he was so obscure, namely, because he sucked both at philosophy and at literary composition.

Of course, there are legitimately good lost plays and histories, some of which would have huge amounts of relevance if ever recovered. Arrianus' After Alexander or Hieronymos of Kardia's full history of the Successors would be immensely valuable, speaking of areas in which I actually have some expertise. But it's hard for me to believe that the dross survived and the good fell into abeyance.

That's genuinely interesting. Thanks for sharing!

[Juha81FIN]

I would load Kodiak shuttle with nuclear warheads, install VI to pilot the shuttle and send it through mass relay. The VI pilot could then make simultaneus timed detonation with warheads during shuttle crash when it impacts on Reaper at FTL speed. Further more I would make nuclear mines and spread them on specific location near planets and make The Reapers come to the mine field, send my shuttles against them and let them burn in nuclear fire and radiation.

[Chomposaur]

 Build a fake earth and fill it with dynamite, then blow it up when the Reapers attack.

 ( Blazing Saddles )

[Darth Death]

ME3 would've been a lot more interesting without the usage of Deus Ex Machina, that's for sure.

[ediskrad327]

the same way i will in ME3 because there is no Deus Ex Machina

Modifié par ediskrad327, 25 février 2012 - 02:31 .