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[Rugaru]

There was magic nullification in that spot as far as I remember about the Phylactery door...

[Herr Uhl]

Shady314 wrote...
It takes like 4 men to open. And one would think since it's whole point is to make it hard to escape, that simply blasting it would not work. Otherwise why make the door be so huge and strong?

The building was there before the Circle existed, so the door was there before too.

[dannythefool]

Taerda wrote...
Is mind control a spell talent, or an inate ability gained once you cross that threshold of becoming a Blood mage?

It's the fourth-tier blood magic spell.
I'd go with the "he's really quite powerful but hiding it" explanation but if you go to Redcliffe and enter the Fade as Jowan you'll see he isn't very powerful at all. Seems like just another plot hole.

[FlintlockJazz]

Couldar wrote...

But you really don't know anything about Jowan and his blood mage skills, from a game mechanics lvl perspective he had to be at least lvl 7 to have blood magic, yes? He lies to you about being a blood mage in the first place and then manages to take out a whole room in one shot so to me anyway it would seem that he is a very strong blood mage he just keeps it hidden. (at least that is the only thing that would make sense to me right now as far as the story part of it)

But then Alistair, Leliana and Morrigan are all recruitable before level 7 and they still have specialisations, it appears that the first spec at level 7 is only for PCs.

[Shady314]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Shady314 wrote...
It takes like 4 men to open. And one would think since it's whole point is to make it hard to escape, that simply blasting it would not work. Otherwise why make the door be so huge and strong?

The building was there before the Circle existed, so the door was there before too.

And it's uttery impossible to do a little construction? Why keep a door if it serves ZERO purpose besides being a pain in the ass?

The Tower was RESTORED and moved into when it was decided to be used by the Circle. It wasn't just sitting there in perfect condition. If the door served no purpose but to make it hard for the Templars to leave and not the mages they'd be idiots to have left it as is.

As for Jowan being a skilled blood mage.... Well I sent him into the Fade to check him out. I did Redcliffe at the end so he was level 19 in the Fade. He did NOT have Mind Control so that theory is gone. He did have Blood Wound which is accurate. Almost all his points were put into magic and willpower so strictly speaking he is a decent mage he just hides it well with his pathetic whining and cringing.

Anyways Skilled Blood Mage... yes depending on the level you are at when you do the redcliffe questline. Blasting open giant fortified doors when he can't escape a cell (and this is many many levels ago?) No.

[Shady314]

dannythefool wrote...

Taerda wrote...
Is mind control a spell talent, or an inate ability gained once you cross that threshold of becoming a Blood mage?

It's the fourth-tier blood magic spell.
I'd go with the "he's really quite powerful but hiding it" explanation but if you go to Redcliffe and enter the Fade as Jowan you'll see he isn't very powerful at all. Seems like just another plot hole.

Stat wise he's ok. It's his crappy talent selection that screws him  Plus he has no potions and basic starting equipment.

[Rugaru]

Hmm didn't know that about his spell selection I always make Morrigan do the fade. As far as the cell goes I was just thinking that he had decided to "repent" for his deeds and that is why he stayed in there. So much for plausibility then...

[Herr Uhl]

Shady314 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Shady314 wrote...
It takes like 4 men to open. And one would think since it's whole point is to make it hard to escape, that simply blasting it would not work. Otherwise why make the door be so huge and strong?

The building was there before the Circle existed, so the door was there before too.

And it's uttery impossible to do a little construction? Why keep a door if it serves ZERO purpose besides being a pain in the ass?

The Tower was RESTORED and moved into when it was decided to be used by the Circle. It wasn't just sitting there in perfect condition. If the door served no purpose but to make it hard for the Templars to leave and not the mages they'd be idiots to have left it as is.

Doesn't most official buildings have huge doors? And it could be an atheistic choice, like in churches?

Everything doesn't have to be practical. They saw the doors and thought that there was no need to change it. And it serves a decent purpose, lowering the number of moody teenagers (a la Wynne) who would sneak out.

[Shady314]

Herr Uhl wrote...
Doesn't most official buildings have huge doors? And it could be an atheistic choice, like in churches?
Everything doesn't have to be practical.

It's run by a paramilitary organization with a duty to keep mages locked inside. Everything DOES need to have a reason or we accept that Gregoir and all Templars before him are stupid. And that is a VERY lazy excuse.

They saw the doors and thought that there was no need to change it.

Except for the many reasons I brought up why you would change it from a practical standpoint, assuming that mages can easily magic their way past it. Or through it.

And it serves a decent purpose, lowering the number of moody teenagers (a la Wynne) who would sneak out.

I think the guards do that just fine. Not to mention a regular door would also do the same job. Again this is assuming a mage can easily blast their way through the door or the wall beside it. I do not personally believe this. I believe the door does serve a purpose and that a mage would have to summon a siege device level of intensity to crack the thing open. Not impossible for all mages but for most mages and certainly Jowan in the origin this just does not seem feasible.

I will continue imagining in my mind the doors are open for Duncan's departure.

[Valtonis]

the one thing that boggles me is when you get the mages help to free Connor at Redcliffe why wasn't Jowan brought back to the circle or templars called in the kill him?

[Herr Uhl]

I don't think that he blasted the doors open either. The doors maybe were open for a delivery or something.



But the choosing a tower in a lake as a safety precaution is a lot more moot than having a big door, that is blastable.

There seems to be one ferryman, which means one ferry, take that ferry and you're home free, even though there probably are more boats there, but that still would make no sense, take the damn boat.

Or just swim, it is a lake and not very far to shore. And lake Calenhad does not seem to be very susceptible to currents either.

[RazorrX]

The big doors that they seal . . . those are ONLY sealed if there is a major issue and they have to lock the mages in and begin the rite of annulment. Alistair mentions that. Something like 'every circle has them in case something like this occurs..." So they are not usually shut and sealed.

So all Jowan had to do is get past a few guards, not a super sealed door.



Jowan is older than you, and has been in training longer. He has not undergone the Harrowing because Irving felt that he would fail, and wanted to give him more time. The chantry forces wanted him lobotomized (hell they want that of every mage) but Irving put them off. Then Gregior shows up and says he has proof (Chantry Witness) that Jowan is a Blood Mage. Irving does not fully believe them, and agrees to set him up to show that one of thier own (Lily) is guilty in this too.



Notice how shocked Lily is when Greg tells her that she is going to be locked up in the prison for Mages? That thing must be a real Gulag to draw that kind of response. And it shows how mad Greg was that one of his was involved.



They underestimated how powerful Jowan was with his blood magic, and did not bring enough men.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Gregoir said he said witnesses, he never said they ere CHANTRY witnesses. Now you'+rejsut pulling things out of your a**.



And frankly, Irwing seemed to belive Gregoir, which means Grgoir probably had some pretty ompelling evidence.

[RazorrX]

IF they were Mage witnesses don't you think YOU would have heard? I never got that Irving was fully convinced, it seemed to me that he had doubts about the 'witness'.



I think the dialog goes something like "Gregior says he has a witness to it" or some such instead of "Gregior has a witness". Those two statements are a bit different.

[Herr Uhl]

He trusts Gregoirs judgments though. He wouldn't accept a tranquilizing based on loose rumors.



He was not against making Jowan tranquil, he wanted to show that chantry-people also do wrong.

[Valfreyja]

Shady314 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Shady314 wrote...
It takes like 4 men to open. And one would think since it's whole point is to make it hard to escape, that simply blasting it would not work. Otherwise why make the door be so huge and strong?

The building was there before the Circle existed, so the door was there before too.

And it's uttery impossible to do a little construction? Why keep a door if it serves ZERO purpose besides being a pain in the ass?

That's why I think the templars were just lying about it(when I talked to them on my mage it seemed like that's what they were doing and they said two people to me, not four :x) to get rid of you.