73 réponses à ce sujet

[frylock23]

snakeboy86 wrote...

Another thing i noticed from the demo, Shepard isn't a specter anymore

That's off the canon.  I'm assuming that if you upload a save where you got your status back, it would be different.

I'm trying to remember, but I think at least two of my four Sheps took their status back, but I'm not sure that all four of them did. That'll be one of those fun little surprises I have waiting.

[TheShizno]

Of course they grounded him. What did you think? No one believes him and some people think that he is crazy. Council believes that Saren tricked him and that Souverign was a Geth invention. Even if you bring Legion to the council hearing in ME2 they still dont believe you. For them you have sacrificed 300 000 batarian lives for your imaginary war. Who saw you going through the Omega 4 relay and stopping the Collectors? The abducted human colonies were in Terminus system anyways, so council did not care what was happening to them. Basically no one except Cerberus knew what was happening to them, because they were not investigating. And there is another reason why they hate you- Cerberus. Everyone knows that they are terrorists and you may say that doing good the wrong way is justifiable, but not for them. Remember, they still do not believe you. There were no signs of reapers ever since Souverign was defeated and the keepers on citadel have kept most of the parts of him, so they could not tell weather it was really that advanced- Anderson said that they did not even collect part of it. There were also the geth helping him and of course they tought that Souverign is a geth ship.

You are naive sir. For killing 300 000 beings anyone would have gotten capital punishment. Shepard had no real proof about the reapers. He was the only one who ever talked to them, he said he had visions, he was the only one at the collectors base and all evidence suggested that the geth were actually the creators of the ship, because who else could be? An ancient race of machines wiping out life every 50 000 years? Yeah, sure. No one would believe that.

[NOSAR]

Bioware hasn't let us down on that front, play the game first

[Juniper Mucius]

I have a feeling the OP knows nothing of politics. Just because we know Shepard is real, doesn't mean others do. Some people knew that the 9/11 attacks were being planned. Those in charge didn't believe it. Same can be said about December 7th, 1941. Sometimes intelligence is right, sometimes it's wrong. To the Council, Sheapard was half right. Saren was coming with Geth.

However, the Reaper threat is, to them, Shepard falling for Geth propaganda perpetuated by Saren. There is no proof of them outside of Shepard and his crew. The only one that believes him is Anderson, and mainly because Anderson is taking a leap of faith.

Think of it like this, Shepard is running around the galaxy warning of a "doomsday", working for terrorists, and killing hundreds of thousands Batarians.

Now imagine a Iraqi Veteran works with a terrorist cell to nuke a city, and then claims it was to save Earth from an alien invasion. Should we commend him? No. That's essentially what Shepard did.

When people, even the councilors deny the Reapers, it doesn't frustrate me. I'll rub it in their face when the Reapers invade, but I can understand their present hesitation.

[DarthLaxian]

i know enough of politics to believe that the military should keep out of it (and not cater to politicians - and, call me "naive" or what ever, i believe that humanity should have learned a thing or two in those centuries from now to the time mass effect is happening)...but i guess you think differently

well, it's all about oppinions, is it not?

as for the terrorist argument:

there sure as hell is enough evidence to substanciate the reapers (vigil alone would be enough...the remains of sovereign, too - hell he is more advanced then the geth, even the turians get that, when they craft the thanix cannon from remains found....and all those prothean ruins etc....)

as for comparing it to today:

well there would be an inquiry, and if there are at least a few believers among the higher ups (hell anderson is a politician if he sits on the council, so he has the influence to make sure it is done properly - and even if he is not, he becomes an admiral and can still insure that such an investigation is done properly!) and it would likely exonerate the person....(as for the comparrison it is kind of moot as our world is not covered in alien ruins ...)

well you can write on

greetings LAX
ps: yeah, they let us down in my book - our dear ashley and kaidan got a promotion for saving the citadel under the command of sheppard (normally, the commanding officer is promoted, too!) and sheppard got the boot - hunt down geth resistance pockets my ass!

[Juniper Mucius]

There was nothing left of Vigil. Did you play ME2? Vigil used all the power he had left to talk to Shepard. By time people could return to Ilos, there was no power. No VI, nothing. Sovereign was also destroyed very well. Nothing of Sovereign proved he was anything more than a sufficiently advanced Geth ship.

Shepard will be exonerated now. More printer haver proof. They didn't before. Shepard only had the word if himself and his crew. Also, the military is beholden to politicians. If you had to go to war, killing millions, or do a show trial of one woman, what would you choose? That trial was to keep the Alliance out of a war. Shepard, or any soldier would understand.

[Nathan Redgrave]

DarthLaxian wrote...

his weapons (you bought a hell of a lot of upgrades etc. that are not exactly alliance standard and therefore should be your own personal stuff)

If it's any consolation, you get all of it back when you import a save, apparently. Yes, your weapon stash carries over.

[Juniper Mucius]

More people have proof.* Sorry. On my phone, so it only lets me quick post. Not edit.

[RethenX]

look at all the intelligent and rational responses.



Good Job!

[DarthLaxian]

power does not delete harddrives...not even todays technology is that bad

and now, not anyon would like being used "for the good of the service" - most soldiers i know (german bundeswehr soldiers) would in fact do anything not to be blamed for things they either did out of necessity or because they didn't really have a choice (like sheppard - would you let the reapers come and not destroy the relay?...sorry, but no, i would blow **** up rather then let those genocidal machines back into the galaxy...as for batarians? - sorry but i do not like those xenophobic aliens all that much anyway (not that i would kill them if i had the choice...))

well now, i will go look some other things up, but please continue to discuss the topic

greets LAX

[snakeboy86]

Naltair wrote...

snakeboy86 wrote...

Another thing i noticed from the demo, Shepard isn't a specter anymore

This is probably dependent on choices.  Given that the Shepard in the demo is not one that can be transferred it would make sense to not make him a Spectre.

Yeah kinda like the mass effect 2 demo being rengade

[Juniper Mucius]

My gods, pay attention. Would Shepard defend her actions? Yes. Would she understand her trial is to spare a needless war? Yes.

Also, you have to remember we don't know how Prothean tech or Vigil worked. The Council said nothing worked. If it doesn't work, how can it be used as proof? Your argument is based on proof that isn't there for others. You have to remember that the Council wasn't there. They can't use just Shepard's word as testimony. If anything, be mad at Cerberus. They were hiding definitive proof from the Council and Alliance of the Reaper threat for their own cause.

[atheelogos]

DarthLaxian wrote...

No i didn't play that one, but i read about it - and it sounds like doing that was NECESSARY - so, they should not judge him....

greetings LAX

Imagine if the Bartarians did the same to Terra Nova and then said they did it because mystical star ships were coming to kill everyone.... How would the greater galaxy act then? 

Shep being relieved makes perfect sense even if it did help save lives. Oh and he worked with Cerberus and they're terrorist. You don't get to do that and just walk away without punishment. No matter who you are.

Modifié par atheelogos, 26 février 2012 - 07:19 .

[Juniper Mucius]

atheelogos wrote...

DarthLaxian wrote...

No i didn't play that one, but i read about it - and it sounds like doing that was NECESSARY - so, they should not judge him....

greetings LAX

Imagine if the Bartarians did the same to Terra Nova and then said they did it because mystical star ships were coming to kill everyone.... How would the greater galaxy act then? 

Shep being relieved makes perfect sense even if it did help save lives. Oh and he worked with Cerberus and they're terrorist. You don't get to do that and just walk away without punishment. No matter who you are.

Not sure it will work.  Multiple people here have stated the same thing.  OP continues to argue that, "he did it for the greater good".  It appears that the OP thinks that everyone else in the universe experienced Shepard's story like we did, and thus should have no doubt.

[DarthLaxian]

well - no, they of course did not (they weren't there - but i would say that a sophisticated armor like sheppards would record missions, in order to go over them later (post-mission-de-briefing) so he should have some pretty nifty vids as more evidence - i mean, come on, after mission briefings are even common today!), but i would still argue that there is enough evidence for reasonable doubt at the very least (so he should not be punished...but well, it is an oppinion)

you might dissagree of course, but yeah, i feel that sheppards sacrifice is cheapened by all that political maneuvering and the accusations etc. that come with it and so i am still pretty pissed at the alliance (and at the concil for downplaying the reapers - even if their was little evidence, they should trust that one of their spectres (they say spectres are special and all that rubbish and then they do not trust them?....) is not some liar....)

greetings LAX
ps: as for vigil not working? - you might need someone like liara on that one and a good power-source but then the VI - i mean vigil can't be that different from say Avina - should be good to go!

Modifié par DarthLaxian, 26 février 2012 - 04:10 .

[Kerri900709]

atheelogos wrote...

DarthLaxian wrote...

No i didn't play that one, but i read about it - and it sounds like doing that was NECESSARY - so, they should not judge him....

greetings LAX

Imagine if the Bartarians did the same to Terra Nova and then said they did it because mystical star ships were coming to kill everyone.... How would the greater galaxy act then? 

Shep being relieved makes perfect sense even if it did help save lives. Oh and he worked with Cerberus and they're terrorist. You don't get to do that and just walk away without punishment. No matter who you are.

I completely agree with this comment, however as soon as someones needs Shep to save the universe again (like, right away!) all will be forgiven and forgotten... most likely, unless the charges reappear at some point. And unless you're Bartarian, doubt they'll be forgiving or forgetting

[Poison_Berrie]

frylock23 wrote...

But this idea that the Alliance as a whole is averting war with the Batarians because they need to prepare for the Reapers is a laugh. The only ones who think that are Andrson and Hackett; the rest are typical politicians who think that Shepard went off the deep end and are just trying to appease the Batarians with a show of a trial. If they had really been trying to prepare, do you think they would have acted so much like they'd been caught with their pants down in the demo?

Though they are no doubt avoiding war with the Batarians, because they don't want war with them either way, there are signs that the Alliance is preparing for a Reaper invasion. The trail during the demo makes it clear that Shepard affirms their fears. Before they actually see a Reaper they no longer call their existence into question.

DarthLaxian wrote...

well - no, they of course did not (they weren't there - but i would say that a sophisticated armor like sheppards would record missions, in order to go over them later (post-mission-de-briefing) so he should have some pretty nifty vids as more evidence - i mean, come on, after mission briefings are even common today!), but i would still argue that there is enough evidence for reasonable doubt at the very least (so he should not be punished...but well, it is an oppinion)

First the no vids has been a problem that gamers have pointed out before. 
For the sake of the story, though, you can't have that. The story they choose for Mass Effect 2 wouldn't have made a lot of sense if the Reapers were proven and having them know would change the dynamics that are supposed to oppose Shepards progress.

Also he/she BLEW UP A STAR SYSTEM. You better present some solid unrefutable proof to exonerate someone who has done that. If Shepard had blown up an empty system I'd expect them to do the same, solely on the basis that he blew up an entire star system.
Given that the trial is still going and they didn't just speed through the trail or handed Shepard to the Batarians, I think one can expect that they believe him and don't actually want to "hang" Shepard for it, but have no proof to convince the Batarians and/or council.

Modifié par Poison_Berrie, 26 février 2012 - 07:25 .

[Nathan Redgrave]

TheShizno wrote...

and all evidence suggested that the geth were actually the creators of the ship,

What evidence?

[Juniper Mucius]

Lax, you're making stuff up. You're saying Shepard should have this and that. The point is, she didn't. Just because you think Shepard should have something, or you think Mass Effect should work a certain way, doesn't mean it does. It's not a matter of opinion. The Council is acting only on the evidence they are given, which is little. All the evidence points to the geth. Why? Because Sovereign was a massive ship, and supposedly AI. It was advanced further than the geth, but they had no empirical evidence the ship was millenia old, bent on the destruction of the galaxy.

And if the Alliance did believe the Reaper threat, there's no reason to go to war with the batarians. If they lost one ship, that's one ship that couldn't help stop the Reapers. Strategically, it's moronic. I'm not sure why that's not obvious.

[CerberusSoldier]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Also working with a terrorist group for months.

  


thats your view on Cerberus . they are a pro human group just like what the asari and Salarians have . the alliance is a bunch of do nothing cry babies

[DarthLaxian]

well, cerberus might be necessary - but:

it should be under alliance controlle - like say the salarian STG or the Asari Commando-Units are - not led by a crazy like TIM (i liked him in ME2 because he was a necessity, but now he is betraying sheppard, too - like everyone else i suppose...the council, the alliance, cerberus....throw them all in sack and toss a grenade after them...shady politicians and terrorists)...it is the problem there is no real oversight with cerberus (TIM may run the show - but even he seems unable to controlle it as some rouge outfits show!)

as for "he should have this or that" - yes he should, at least where a video-system is concerned (they are currently testing such systems as far as i know - a few hundred years later they should be state of the art!) so no, i am not making stuff up - i am just pointing out things that lack ANY logic....same for vigil, you can't tell me that having now power deleted that VI....

well discuss etc.

greetings LAX
ps: they might delay the trial (andersons doing mostly, i think) but they are not putting a stop to that farce, so it still is not all good

Modifié par DarthLaxian, 26 février 2012 - 10:54 .

[Juniper Mucius]

The Alliance isn't betraying Shepard. That's like saying a man convicted of murder is betrayed by his country. He's innocent, but there's too much evidence against him. It isn't betrayal, it's reality. Sometimes, you don't get what you want. If Shepard ran around crying that everyone is betraying her, no one will want to help her or believe her. Shepard is doing what she must, while warning people. She's saying, "believe me, you idiots." Not, "waaahhhh! Why are you putting me on trial for killing thousands of children and other innocents? Waaahhhh! The Reapers made me do it! Waaaahhhh!"

Also, Ceberus is considered a terrorist organization by other governments, CerberusSoldier. Just like if you asked the American government if Hamas is a terrorist organization, they'd say yes. If you asked many on the Gaza Strip or in the West Bank, they'd say no.

[Poison_Berrie]

CerberusSoldier wrote...

thats your view on Cerberus . they are a pro human group just like what the asari and Salarians have . the alliance is a bunch of do nothing cry babies

No, it's the view of the galaxy at large. Whether you or your Sheppard consider Cerberus terrorists is irrelevant in this case, because the rest of the galaxy and the Alliance does consider them to be and thus why they'd at least have to consider putting Sheppard on trial for it.

DarthLaxian wrote...

as for "he should have this or that" - yes he should, at least where a video-system is concerned (they are currently testing such systems as far as i know - a few hundred years later they should be state of the art!) so no, i am not making stuff up - i am just pointing out things that lack ANY logic....same for vigil, you can't tell me that having now power deleted that VI....

Because they can't from a story perspective. Though logic would dictate that our soldiers would have video logs on their armor, the story and structure of the game requires you to be in that under-dog position for the first two games.

greetings LAX
ps: they might delay the trial (andersons doing mostly, i think) but they are not putting a stop to that farce, so it still is not all good

So basically you want them to say, **** the rest of the galaxy. What does it matter if the Batarians go to war with us. What does it matter if the Council places sanctions on us, condemns our actions and doesn't get involved in the war. We should put all our interests and the safety of our people at risk for this one man/woman. 

Modifié par Poison_Berrie, 27 février 2012 - 11:07 .

[Juniper Mucius]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

So basically you want them to say, **** the rest of the galaxy. What does it matter if the Batarians go to war with us. What does it matter if the Council places sanctions on us, condemns our actions and doesn't get involved in the war. We should put all our interests and the safety of our people at risk for this one man/woman. 

Hell, not even Shepard would want that.  Shepard knows damn well humanity can't fight alone, even if he is anti-alien.  If humans didn't do anything to win the respect of the other species, and just want to war and told everyone else to frell off, even Shepard would know that's a bad idea.  Without trying to be insulting, the OP comes off as a kid that just can't understand why things happen the way they do.  He says that "this" and "that" should happen or exist, and that's enough proof for everyone to believe Shepard.  When the reality is, "this" and "that" don't exist in the Mass Effect universe.  Hell, maybe Shepard had video equipment on his armor, as well as Kaidan and Ashley.  However, that video equipment could have been *removed* when he became a Spectre, and they became his crew.  The Council doesn't want to see everything he does, and the Alliance actually has no business monitoring him while he's on Spectre business.  Simple logic.

[digby69]

we new all this before from Arival