251 réponses à ce sujet

[jimmyw404]

Sabresandiego wrote...

jimmyw404 wrote...

Engineers are too low on your lists. They're not playing correctly unless they're using their drones/decoy/turrets properly.

Engineers are a good class, but I feel that they are ranked properly. Where do you think they should be ranked higher compared to another class?

I'd place them above your vanguards. I haven't really seen a good drell vanguard yet though, I honestly don't know what they do differently than human vanguards (which I really love to play).

Really when I think about effectiveness I think about what makes the difference between a win and a lose. And for me that comes down to, "Who is best on wave 8/9/10?", "Who is best at the hacking objectives?" (which I think are the hardest) and "Who is best at taking down armor?"

And frankly, an engineer is one of the best classes at holding ground because of their distraction abilities, and I feel they are very good at dealing with armor (Better than vanguards).

[Sabresandiego]

I boosted the drell vanguard considerably because I have been able to absolutely destroy armies by using a falcon with an ammo power and cluster grenades, saving charge for when my shields are low or to set off teamates biotic explosions. I got rid of pull and maxed fitness on both the drell adept and drell vanguard and found that it made them much more enjoyable and effective on higher difficulty. Falcon synergizes so well with the drell vanguard because it staggers enemies and does AOE damage which complements cluster grenades. The high speed of drells allows you to sprint around the map from ammo box to ammo box while tearing things apart with rifle grenades and cluster grenades.

I am actually finding the drell vanguard with the falcon to be more effective then my human vanguard, because as a human you must be in close range which is much higher risk for death. I need to do a bit more testing though, because it may be the falcon itself which is making the class seem so effective.

As for engineers, I rate them mid tier because it is hard to top score with them when you have good teamates playing one of the other top classes. Overload is a great ability, but it just doesnt give much score. Decoy and drones are also of great use to the team, but do not give score. Tech bursts simply pale in comparison to biotic explosions.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 13 mars 2012 - 04:23 .

[jimmyw404]

I'll have to try a drell vanguard with my falcon then.

But as for your scoring system I feel that contribution to a team and increasing their success rate is much more important than who gets what score at the end. I tend to play high scoring classes (infiltrator, vanguard etc) more than low scoring ones and I don't give two ****s about score. When I see an adept lock **** down or an engineer cocking over a banshee and her clutch with a decoy I know they are contributing.

[Ender1221]

jimmyw404 wrote...

I'll have to try a drell vanguard with my falcon then.

But as for your scoring system I feel that contribution to a team and increasing their success rate is much more important than who gets what score at the end. I tend to play high scoring classes (infiltrator, vanguard etc) more than low scoring ones and I don't give two ****s about score. When I see an adept lock **** down or an engineer cocking over a banshee and her clutch with a decoy I know they are contributing.

I agree with this sentiment.

Score is overrated.  I would have preferred it if they took score completely out.  Getting top score gives you absolutely nothing.  Everyone gets the same XP and credits.

If you think that Engineers are mid-tier because they don't rack up a high score, then (1) you haven't been playing with even a half-decent Engineer (2) you should try running gold with 4 "high-scoring" vanguards.  Ten bucks says that Decoy/Drone has saved every single player's a** countless times.  Most of the time you may not even know it.

"Hey sniper.  Yes, you just headshotted a dozen people, but do you realize that this little decoy over here just prevented you from getting flanked, swarmed, and forced to turn invisible and run away?"

"Hey vanguard.  Nice job charging that atlas/prime/banshee to death.  Did you happen to notice that it's back was to you the whole time because it was trying to swat at that pesky little drone?"

This post has come out sounding more angry than I intended, but I just don't understand how people can possible think that: High score = Good player/Good class, Low score = Bad player/Bad class.  It's not that cut and dry.

[Sabresandiego]

Nobody said score is everything, but score factored into my ratings because it is the only competetive aspect in co-op multiplayer. Engineers are a good class, and drones/decoy do alot more for the team then is reflected by the scoreboard. I did take that into consideration with my ratings, but at the same time you are also underestimating how valuable a vanguard or infiltrator is for the team. Poorly played vanguards often wipe the entire team because they die trying to res him in a bad spot, but good vanguards are able to stay alive and keep fire off teamate while clearing out weaker enemies better then almost any other class. Infiltrators are excellent at killing big targets, being medics, and capping objectives. Various types of adepts and sentinels are able to do huge biotic explosions that decimate armies. While the engineer is good, I do not believe it is as good as the above classes. Ill probably change the format of these ratings from a list to just numbers so it doesnt seem like mid tier or lower classes are bad, because all classes in this game are reasonably good.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 13 mars 2012 - 05:03 .

[jimmyw404]

just fyi I think your rankings are very good and I love this thread. The only thing I really disagreed with was engineers.

[RamsenC]

I think it is the Falcon that is helping you out. Drell Vanguard is awful imo. I do agree with score not being everything though. I purposefully don't attack visible enemies and just cover flanks (especially as Vanguard), which obviously isn't raising my score. Highest scorer, for the most part, is the person that kills the most filler enemies. classes should be ranked on team value, when played at the highest level of skill. 

When everyone is looking the same direction, that's when you die.

Modifié par RamsenC, 13 mars 2012 - 05:17 .

[Arppis]

Wait did they nerf human soldier? Because he was awesome in demo.

[jimmyw404]

Arppis wrote...

Wait did they nerf human soldier? Because he was awesome in demo.

he was terrible in the demo...

[RamsenC]

The problem with the soldiers is cloak completely outclasses adrenaline rush and marksman for burst damage, while at the same time offering way more utility.

[mysticforce42]

Human Soldier with a Falcon and Adrenalin Rush is as close as it gets to facerolling Gold.  I'd rank it just below the Infiltrators...because it's still a lot eaiser to solo waves with Cloak than without it. 

You don't even have to aim half the time because the game does it for you. It takes far less effort to play than just about anything else I can think of on Gold. Even Quarian Infiltrators still have to aim and choose their Sabotage targets.

When you learn the various spawn points on each map, with the Falcon you can hit groups of enemies that are out of line of sight. 12 times within 10 seconds. For enough damage to outright kill elites like Phantoms and Geth Pyros.

The downside is don't expect many medals - you'd probably end up with gold medals for assists, kills, and assault rifle kills...but not much else.

Modifié par mysticforce42, 13 mars 2012 - 06:03 .

[jimmyw404]

Yeah I'm surprised the falcon wasn't nerfed in the last patch. I guess not many people are using it yet.

[Father Alvito]

mysticforce42 wrote...

Human Soldier with a Falcon and Adrenalin Rush is as close as it gets to facerolling Gold.  I'd rank it just below the Infiltrators...because it's still a lot eaiser to solo waves with Cloak than without it.

Which is more or less why I'd state that Drell Vanguard is overrated and Human Soldier is badly, badly underrated.  The OP argues for the Falcon on the Drell and completely ignores the fact that Adrenaline Rush makes the Human Soldier a far, far more effective Falcon user than the Drell will ever be.

I still don't think that the Cloak is worthy of pushing the Human Infiltrator to #3.  To me, value added from increasing completion speed in a prospective skilled team of 4 > prospective solo value if everyone else screws up.

Modifié par Father Alvito, 13 mars 2012 - 06:10 .

[TheKillerAngel]

Drell adept with AoE reave paired with any class with a high level throw or warp works incredibly well. Biotic explosions all around.

Modifié par TheKillerAngel, 13 mars 2012 - 06:10 .

[Ender1221]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Nobody said score is everything, but score factored into my ratings because it is the only competetive aspect in co-op multiplayer. Engineers are a good class, and drones/decoy do alot more for the team then is reflected by the scoreboard. I did take that into consideration with my ratings, but at the same time you are also underestimating how valuable a vanguard or infiltrator is for the team. Poorly played vanguards often wipe the entire team because they die trying to res him in a bad spot, but good vanguards are able to stay alive and keep fire off teamate while clearing out weaker enemies better then almost any other class. Infiltrators are excellent at killing big targets, being medics, and capping objectives. Various types of adepts and sentinels are able to do huge biotic explosions that decimate armies. While the engineer is good, I do not believe it is as good as the above classes. Ill probably change the format of these ratings from a list to just numbers so it doesnt seem like mid tier or lower classes are bad, because all classes in this game are reasonably good.

I respect your opinion.  Honestly, I think the list is great.  You obviously have a soft spot for Vanguards and Infiltrators, just like I have a soft spot for my Salarian Engie.  I, personally, would rather team up with a great Engineer than a great Vanguard, but I can't fault you for thinking differently.  As a whole, your list is great, my only disagreement is in regards to the Engineer.  Thanks for the thread.  It's been an entertaining read!

[royard]

DaftArbiter wrote...

Father Alvito wrote...

As many others have pointed out, you have a severe Infiltrator bias. The Quarian owns Geth, does well against Cerberus turrets, and is weak against Reapers, which puts her in the lower end of the top tier. The Cloak is not game breaking enough to push Human Infiltrator to #3, whose other abilities are meh. The Salarian is properly ranked, as he has the two best abilities in the game AND they synergize to solve the Infiltrator's lone drawback - slow shield regen.

Salarian Engineer is a top tier choice, and the Turian Sentinel isn't far behind. Shield/barrier rips + other quality abilities = great class.

Human Engineer is correctly identified as a mid-tier class. The Salarian is just better in the same niche. Incinerate isn't all that great, Energy Drain > Overload and Decoy > Drone.

The Drell Vanguard is nowhere near the top tier. Poor ability synergy + CQC + squishy = bad.

You are severely underrating the Human Soldier's ability to spam AoE damage with the Falcon.

You're underestimating the Drellguard. Maybe it's just because I'm good with most classes, but I can handle Drellguard on Gold with no problems. You just have to play evasive and run diversions on enemies to wear them down for teammates.  Too many people play Drellguard like human Vanguard and that's why they die so much...a well-played Drellguard is great at crowd control and can take on pretty much anything by himself.

The problem is, drell adept is better than drellguard.  charge is nice, sure, but reave synergizes with pull so much better. 

[mysticforce42]

Father Alvito wrote...

mysticforce42 wrote...

Human Soldier with a Falcon and Adrenalin Rush is as close as it gets to facerolling Gold.  I'd rank it just below the Infiltrators...because it's still a lot eaiser to solo waves with Cloak than without it.

Which is more or less why I'd state that Drell Vanguard is overrated and Human Soldier is badly, badly underrated.  The OP argues for the Falcon on the Drell and completely ignores the fact that Adrenaline Rush makes the Human Soldier a far, far more effective Falcon user than the Drell will ever be.

I still don't think that the Cloak is worthy of pushing the Human Infiltrator to #3.  To me, value added from increasing completion speed in a prospective skilled team of 4 > prospective solo value if everyone else screws up.

It is kind of odd that the OP ranked the DV so high.

Usually I agree - a human soldier with a Falcon not only speeds up completion, it also makes otherwise difficult situations a breeze.  However, when something goes wrong (damn Ravagers), I can't help but think "This would be sooooo much easier if I had Cloak."

[Barfwak]

I don't think score is as overrated as a lot of people think. Some utility and defensive classes can help a lot, but if the team doesn't have enough damage output to bring down the enemy before they surround you then you're going to lose eventually.

I do like playing with sentinels and engineers, but it's going to be tough to win without a good infiltrator or two. It's also worth noting that infiltrators are perfectly capable of contributing absolutely nothing to the team if they aren't played correctly; unlike utility casters, you cannot fulfill your role without landing nearly all of your TC headshots on target. Powers are a lot easier to deploy correctly.

I've tried playing support classes because I like trying every build that looks viable, but unfortunately unless I'm pulling the hard carry on a salarian infiltrator our team doesn't get very far. =/

[UK Wildcat]

List is completely inaccurate for release. I suggest remaking a thread if this is supposed to extend to release, unless you are intending for this to reflect release, if so, I'll simply say it's my opinion you are extremely wrong in regards to soldier.

*I'll make my own list, I looked over your ratings and I understand that this simply reflects your opinion + random forum people.

Modifié par UK Wildcat, 13 mars 2012 - 10:51 .

[Naqey]

falcon > class

[Sabresandiego]

I believe my list to be quite accurate, most of the classes are quite well balanced except for the ones on either end of the scale. Human adepts are alot better then appears right now, since shockwave is not working properly and bugs out doing no damage for the entire match. I find shockwave and pull to both be bad abilities, and I dont take it on my human adept or drells.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 13 mars 2012 - 11:52 .

[Dunmer of Redoran]

royard wrote...

DaftArbiter wrote...

Father Alvito wrote...

As many others have pointed out, you have a severe Infiltrator bias. The Quarian owns Geth, does well against Cerberus turrets, and is weak against Reapers, which puts her in the lower end of the top tier. The Cloak is not game breaking enough to push Human Infiltrator to #3, whose other abilities are meh. The Salarian is properly ranked, as he has the two best abilities in the game AND they synergize to solve the Infiltrator's lone drawback - slow shield regen.

Salarian Engineer is a top tier choice, and the Turian Sentinel isn't far behind. Shield/barrier rips + other quality abilities = great class.

Human Engineer is correctly identified as a mid-tier class. The Salarian is just better in the same niche. Incinerate isn't all that great, Energy Drain > Overload and Decoy > Drone.

The Drell Vanguard is nowhere near the top tier. Poor ability synergy + CQC + squishy = bad.

You are severely underrating the Human Soldier's ability to spam AoE damage with the Falcon.

You're underestimating the Drellguard. Maybe it's just because I'm good with most classes, but I can handle Drellguard on Gold with no problems. You just have to play evasive and run diversions on enemies to wear them down for teammates.  Too many people play Drellguard like human Vanguard and that's why they die so much...a well-played Drellguard is great at crowd control and can take on pretty much anything by himself.

The problem is, drell adept is better than drellguard.  charge is nice, sure, but reave synergizes with pull so much better. 

Actually I really find pull/charge to be an effective combo. You have to pick and choose targets with it sometimes but it allows you to cross the map back and forth at a blistering pace while still pulling off biotic explosions.

[Petrikles]

I love the human vanguard, but I have problems with it being ranked high:

- That turret around the corner you did not know about.
- In the life game, immortality frames seem to have been cut down. Very often, I die while still coming out of the charge animation, hammering the key for nova. It might be a lag problem, though.
- That turret with three white crosses around it.

I would rate the human sentinel a bit higher. A constant warp->throw spamming machine (boni for combo explosions add up), with a nova-like emergency exit button when swarmed.

Modifié par Kailord, 14 mars 2012 - 01:00 .

[Renew81]

Only one true list , and that list cant be written since its unique to each
person that plays mp.

I myself like to play infiltrator class i suck at most other classes so i stick
to what suits me best and just have fun with that.

i use the salarian as i prefer energy drain over cryo blast , energy drain + widow is win
i also like it when biotics put Phantoms in stasis and such makes for a easy headshot.

Anyways i think all classes have there strong and weak points.

[royard]

DaftArbiter wrote...

royard wrote...

DaftArbiter wrote...

Father Alvito wrote...

As many others have pointed out, you have a severe Infiltrator bias. The Quarian owns Geth, does well against Cerberus turrets, and is weak against Reapers, which puts her in the lower end of the top tier. The Cloak is not game breaking enough to push Human Infiltrator to #3, whose other abilities are meh. The Salarian is properly ranked, as he has the two best abilities in the game AND they synergize to solve the Infiltrator's lone drawback - slow shield regen.

Salarian Engineer is a top tier choice, and the Turian Sentinel isn't far behind. Shield/barrier rips + other quality abilities = great class.

Human Engineer is correctly identified as a mid-tier class. The Salarian is just better in the same niche. Incinerate isn't all that great, Energy Drain > Overload and Decoy > Drone.

The Drell Vanguard is nowhere near the top tier. Poor ability synergy + CQC + squishy = bad.

You are severely underrating the Human Soldier's ability to spam AoE damage with the Falcon.

You're underestimating the Drellguard. Maybe it's just because I'm good with most classes, but I can handle Drellguard on Gold with no problems. You just have to play evasive and run diversions on enemies to wear them down for teammates.  Too many people play Drellguard like human Vanguard and that's why they die so much...a well-played Drellguard is great at crowd control and can take on pretty much anything by himself.

The problem is, drell adept is better than drellguard.  charge is nice, sure, but reave synergizes with pull so much better. 

Actually I really find pull/charge to be an effective combo. You have to pick and choose targets with it sometimes but it allows you to cross the map back and forth at a blistering pace while still pulling off biotic explosions.

I see your point.  But I find travelling alone without teammates is too dangerous for me, especially when I don't have a good defensive power.  getting to the enemy is easy, but getting back to the teammates is hard.