147 réponses à ce sujet

[Impulse and Compulse]

But having a good power is generally better than a good gun, and easier to achieve. And wtf, "Does it really matter if a weapon is harder to max than a power in the long run? Eventually people will have everything maxxed." Sorry, but that's just......wrong and stupid. The game shouldn't put you through a painful process just to get something on par with an ability.

I'm just saying, charge doesn't need reloading.

[Jagdwyre]

Impulse and Compulse wrote...

But having a good power is generally better than a good gun, and easier to achieve. And wtf, "Does it really matter if a weapon is harder to max than a power in the long run? Eventually people will have everything maxxed." Sorry, but that's just......wrong and stupid. The game shouldn't put you through a painful process just to get something on par with an ability.

I'm just saying, charge doesn't need reloading.

Are you serious? What you're essentially saying is that top itemized weapons don't matter when it comes to balance just because it takes awhile to get? Sorry but most people not new to RPG's will tell you the exact opposite. The "max level" of weapons, players, etc is where balance is most important.

[Raxxman]

P1G V3n0m wrote...

Adrenaline rush can restore 50% of shields, if you choose that route. It's insanely helpful for anyone that has their shields taken down in a tight spot.

It doesn't (not in the PC demo at least). It boosts around 20/25%, which is bad compared to the vanguards 50/100%, and not great in general because of the low starting shield spec. It gives you like +200 HP

[Jagdwyre]

Raxxman wrote...

P1G V3n0m wrote...

Adrenaline rush can restore 50% of shields, if you choose that route. It's insanely helpful for anyone that has their shields taken down in a tight spot.

It doesn't (not in the PC demo at least). It boosts around 20/25%, which is bad compared to the vanguards 50/100%, and not great in general because of the low starting shield spec. It gives you like +200 HP

Yes it is only around 25%, but since it states 50% it is likely a bug. So it isn't something people should worry too much about.

Unless the error was the tooltip.... In which case no one will choose it over getting free conc shot.

Modifié par Jagdwyre, 26 février 2012 - 05:48 .

[Jestina]

An ME1 type soldier would have probably been better for multi-play with skills like overkill, combat armor, and adrenaline burst.

[Gnarlesee]

Grenades are too weak for their capacity and rarity taken into consideration.

That goes for both single and multiplayer. A real playthrough will not include any grenades for a top player. Safe and clean results counts more than something that varies in effectiveness, and cannot always be used.

Grenades have to either be more powerfull, or become a cooldown ability like good ol inferno grenade. It was fine in ME2, why did they have to break it in ME3.

[Lightweight Nate]

Are you kidding? I decided to completely ignore grenades and max out everything else. My Human Soldier is a beast. I was doing very well in Silver with him. Adrenaline Rush is anything but useless. You can absolutely destroy an Atlas in no time if you spec for max damage.

[Crimson_D-bag]

If you can't use a soldier properly your probably not very good at shooters in general, which sucks cause that's what mass effect is. If you would learn to bounce nades properly u might find them to be effective crowd busters and nem/phan killers. hope to not see u in MP!!!

[Eric13574]

Crimson_D-bag wrote...

If you can't use a soldier properly your probably not very good at shooters in general, which sucks cause that's what mass effect is. If you would learn to bounce nades properly u might find them to be effective crowd busters and nem/phan killers. hope to not see u in MP!!!

3 grenades, enough firepower to kill 1 phantom.  True asset to the team, especially since you can then resupply ONE whole grenade.


Please stay in Bronze, that's where your wisdom applies.

I think the game you're looking for is COD.

[capn233]

Some good thoughts and some odd theories in here. I somewhat agree with the original sentiment. Human Soldier is not all that great. Mediocre is probably a decent term to use.

On Bronze it doesn't matter so much. Enemies aren't very good and are easy to kill. I have taken out 4 enemies per grenade many times. You don't hardly need ARush or Concussive Shot for that matter.

Silver it is still decent. Spec as sniper with Widow or Mantis, or go balanced with Mattock/Katana, or hell take the Revenant. It is fine. Be careful with Phantoms, but still it is fine.

Gold is where things break down. Gold success has a whole lot to do with team composition and of course execution, but it is fairly demanding and the disparity in classes begins to show. I have beaten Gold with a human soldier and I take the Mattock and Katana so I get rapid Concussive Shot. Adrenaline Rush is still somewhat useful. However this is not the hot ticket. Turian Sentinel or Krogan Soldier do the body guard role as well and Infiltrator is better for sniper.

I think part of the issue is the relative weapon debuff compared to the second game as well as the weapon weight / cooldown system. The second is a decent idea but the balance isn't quite right as far as weapon damage vs weight and base cooldowns go. And this is glaring on a class which relied on weapons in the previous two games. Sure I can be somewhat effective with a +150% CD bonus spamming CS and some grenades, but this overall is suboptimal not simply a different experience.

I don't buy the idea that since we aren't playing against other humans that the classes shouldn't be balanced. Of course they should. Should they play the same? Of course not. You can have different roles and strengths and weaknesses, but as it stands that isn't how it actually works. All you really need is to loadup on the broken classes like say Stasis Bubble Asari Adept w/ Carnifex and Widow Infiltrator (which is really not too OP compared to the first example) and it is GG Gold. Go all in Human Soldier and I hope you brought your A game.

Modifié par capn233, 26 février 2012 - 06:21 .

[Radwar]

Impulse and Compulse wrote...

First off, let me just say that the (human) soldier is easily the worst class in hte game. You literally took away everything that made them great (extra health bonuses, carrying all the weapons, having all the ammo types) and instead left in mediocre powers. (adrenaline rush is barely worth anything without the slowdown, concussive shot is useful against unprotected enemies) I'm not alone in this; nearly everyone I've talked to online shares my opinion.

Also, freaking fix grenades. Their blast radius is miniscule, they hardly ever land where you want them to, and their capacity is absolutely pathetic for a power that's basically on par with the rest of your powers. (yes I know they don't have a recharge bar, they still suck) Also, they seem incredibly buggy when I try to replenish them. Sometimes when I go up to ammo crates I get 1, sometimes I don't get any. For a power that's already pretty underwhelming, it's kind of a slap in the face to barely ever get to use it in the first place.

That's not a bug, there's a limit to how many grenades there are in stockpiles (2-3 depending on the level you're playing). They respawn after a short while. If you only get 1, that's because another player already picked one before you. Just go to another stockpile.

[P1G V3n0m]

Jagdwyre wrote...

Raxxman wrote...

P1G V3n0m wrote...

Adrenaline rush can restore 50% of shields, if you choose that route. It's insanely helpful for anyone that has their shields taken down in a tight spot.

It doesn't (not in the PC demo at least). It boosts around 20/25%, which is bad compared to the vanguards 50/100%, and not great in general because of the low starting shield spec. It gives you like +200 HP

Yes it is only around 25%, but since it states 50% it is likely a bug. So it isn't something people should worry too much about.

Unless the error was the tooltip.... In which case no one will choose it over getting free conc shot.

For me it restores 50%.  My shields are gone, I hit Y, they are at half way.  I don't know if it's glitched for some people or not, perhaps because of a different upgrade choice somewhere along the way, but it's definitely 50% for me.

[Impulse and Compulse]

capn233 wrote...

Some good thoughts and some odd theories in here. I somewhat agree with the original sentiment. Human Soldier is not all that great. Mediocre is probably a decent term to use.

On Bronze it doesn't matter so much. Enemies aren't very good and are easy to kill. I have taken out 4 enemies per grenade many times. You don't hardly need ARush or Concussive Shot for that matter.

Silver it is still decent. Spec as sniper with Widow or Mantis, or go balanced with Mattock/Katana, or hell take the Revenant. It is fine. Be careful with Phantoms, but still it is fine.

Gold is where things break down. Gold success has a whole lot to do with team composition and of course execution, but it is fairly demanding and the disparity in classes begins to show. I have beaten Gold with a human soldier and I take the Mattock and Katana so I get rapid Concussive Shot. Adrenaline Rush is still somewhat useful. However this is not the hot ticket. Turian Sentinel or Krogan Soldier do the body guard role as well and Infiltrator is better for sniper.

I think part of the issue is the relative weapon debuff compared to the second game as well as the weapon weight / cooldown system. The second is a decent idea but the balance isn't quite right as far as weapon damage vs weight and base cooldowns go. And this is glaring on a class which relied on weapons in the previous two games. Sure I can be somewhat effective with a +150% CD bonus spamming CS and some grenades, but this overall is suboptimal not simply a different experience.

I don't buy the idea that since we aren't playing against other humans that the classes shouldn't be balanced. Of course they should. Should they play the same? Of course not. You can have different roles and strengths and weaknesses, but as it stands that isn't how it actually works. All you really need is to loadup on the broken classes like say Stasis Bubble Asari Adept w/ Carnifex and Widow Infiltrator (which is really not too OP compared to the first example) and it is GG Gold. Go all in Human Soldier and I hope you brought your A game.

Yeah, I've been using it more and trying to get used to it; Avenger IX is loads more effective than Mattock III, was part of my problem.

It's definitely usable, been playing on Silver and made it to round 10 with some mildly competent players. Adrenaline rush is useful upgraded, but the shield recharge thing is still not even worth the trouble.

Concussion shot is decent when upgraded especially with shredder, but still not as useful as biotics against the enemies you actually need it against. (read: Guardians)

Here's an idea; how about a skill in the Soldier class that lets you equip more weapons, with less weight? Would really make the soldier more worthwhile.

And grenades aren't that great largely because their blast radius is tiny; you need to hit someone directly with it to do any real damage.

[Sabbatine]

capn233 wrote...

Silver it is still decent. Spec as sniper with Widow or Mantis, or go balanced with Mattock/Katana, or hell take the Revenant. It is fine. Be careful with Phantoms, but still it is fine.

The widow and mantis are suboptimal sniper rifles for a soldier, the viper is probably the best choice (if you insist on bringing a sniper rifle).  The widow and mantis are great for infiltrators because of the limitations of their skills (namely the first shot out of stealth gets a massive damage boost) but a soldier has the potential for so much more.  
I know folks will see my recommending the viper and come to the conclusion that I am crazy, however this can be explained because adrenaline rush is a flat buff with a set duration.  If you are using a widow or mantis you will only get one shot per AR cooldown.  If you're going to use adrenaline rush exactly the the same way sniper infiltrators use tactical cloak then you'd be better off just playing an infiltrator.

Most folks on this forum seem to have decided that the viper is a terrible weapon because it lacks the high end damage of the mantis and widow but that perception is based on the assumption that there is only one proper way to use use sniper rifles.  This simply isn't the case and those folks lack imagination.  The reason why the viper seems weaker than the widow and mantis is because these guns dump an entire heat sinks damage into a single shot which creates the illusion of effectiveness but in most situations it's actually wasteful.

When you hit a target with the widow or mantis any damage done above what the enemy was capable of surviving is effectively wasted.  Lets say the widow hypothetically does 1000 unmodified damage per shot (and by extension, clip).  The gun is extremely effective against anything that can survive a single or multiple round(s) from the widow (atlas mechs and turrets) or is only just barely killed by the widow (head shotting a phantom on silver difficulty for example) but you'll be killing weaker enemies for most of the game which means over time the widow actually diminishes your effectiveness.

Now for the viper, lets say hypothetically that each clip of viper ammo also holds 1000 unmodified damage but contains six rounds.  Each shot from the viper hits for ~167 damage (unmodified) but this damage can be distributed to any combination of 6 or fewer enemies in the same amount of time the widow delivers 1000 damage to a single enemy.  The viper minimizes damage lost to overkill and is far better for thinning out the more basic enemies.

Impulse and Compulse wrote...

Yeah, I've been using it more and trying to get used to it; Avenger IX is loads more effective than Mattock III, was part of my problem.

The Mattock was a great soldier weapon in ME2 but this was mostly because it was the only assault rifle time dilation didn't slow its rate of fire.  Having time slow down was great until you realized your automatic weapons rate of fire was also slowed (though AR compensated for this with bonus damage and increased accuracy).  Without time dilation the mattock goes from being perhaps the best gun in ME2 to being a a bit worse than the other options.

Modifié par Sabbatine, 26 février 2012 - 08:12 .

[exskeeny]

Sabbatine wrote...

exskeeny wrote...

 I remove everything but the assault rifle and I have a wail of a time. guardians just move their shields out of the way for me.

I know it makes even less sense, but I think that's "whale of a time"

lol, you're right! In one sense I said I was having the complete opposite of the time I was having!

[mybudgee]

The Hu-soldier is great. They balance out the uber-easy Asari Adept

[ncknck]

1. Throw out that Avenger I and equip a decent gun ( like Carnifax)
2. Turn on Adrenaline Rush
3. Headshot people
4. ???
5. Profit.

Modifié par ncknck, 26 février 2012 - 09:18 .

[Darkslayer557]

capn233 wrote...

Some good thoughts and some odd theories in here. I somewhat agree with the original sentiment. Human Soldier is not all that great. Mediocre is probably a decent term to use.

On Bronze it doesn't matter so much. Enemies aren't very good and are easy to kill. I have taken out 4 enemies per grenade many times. You don't hardly need ARush or Concussive Shot for that matter.

Silver it is still decent. Spec as sniper with Widow or Mantis, or go balanced with Mattock/Katana, or hell take the Revenant. It is fine. Be careful with Phantoms, but still it is fine.

Gold is where things break down. Gold success has a whole lot to do with team composition and of course execution, but it is fairly demanding and the disparity in classes begins to show. I have beaten Gold with a human soldier and I take the Mattock and Katana so I get rapid Concussive Shot. Adrenaline Rush is still somewhat useful. However this is not the hot ticket. Turian Sentinel or Krogan Soldier do the body guard role as well and Infiltrator is better for sniper.

I think part of the issue is the relative weapon debuff compared to the second game as well as the weapon weight / cooldown system. The second is a decent idea but the balance isn't quite right as far as weapon damage vs weight and base cooldowns go. And this is glaring on a class which relied on weapons in the previous two games. Sure I can be somewhat effective with a +150% CD bonus spamming CS and some grenades, but this overall is suboptimal not simply a different experience.

I don't buy the idea that since we aren't playing against other humans that the classes shouldn't be balanced. Of course they should. Should they play the same? Of course not. You can have different roles and strengths and weaknesses, but as it stands that isn't how it actually works. All you really need is to loadup on the broken classes like say Stasis Bubble Asari Adept w/ Carnifex and Widow Infiltrator (which is really not too OP compared to the first example) and it is GG Gold. Go all in Human Soldier and I hope you brought your A game.

+1, completely agreed. All other classes/races have some kind of build that make that character OP (human adept: bio explosion, asari adept: stasis bubble, human sentinel: bio explosion, turian sentinel: lightening chain, human vanguards: shield healing charge/nova, drell guards: charge/max heavy melee/air flip ( very hard to use to be effective but possible), infiltrator: invisible revive(crucial for team survival)/stealth shot +90% damage. But I have used the human soldier class and haven't seen anything really effective that he can spam. CS is decent but nothing compared to lightening chain and bio explosion, plus it's not so good against protected units. Human soldiers also don't get any significant advantage on some of the more "humble" aspects like the amount of health or weapon damage. Sure they got AR but the bonus is barely noticible and your kills are still stolen by those vanguards. What human soldiers really need is something that he can effectively spam, not powers but bullets like no other classes can, to differentiate his play style from the other classes while being equally effective. They need a much bigger weapon damage bonus and a big health/shield bonus to play their role as damage dealing tanks. Otherwise they're just sentinels stripped off biotics powers.

[Darkslayer557]

ncknck wrote...

1. Throw out that Avenger I and equip a decent gun ( like Carnifax)
2. Turn on Adrenaline Rush
3. Headshot people
4. ???
5. Profit.

As an asari i can stasis bubble a cluster of enemies, having +150% vulnerability bonus on all of them, head shot them with ease (all not moving), helping our team to mow the stasised enemy. And hell, they don't even have a chance to fire back!

[Trinity66]

R Rarzy wrote...

Zaxares wrote...

At least your Frag Grenades actually DO something. The Krogan Soldier's Incendiary Grenades seem to do as much as hurling bottles of hot chili sauce at enemies. (Even direct hits on enemies in cover don't force them into the typical "I'm on fire!" dance.)

Wat??  I average 3 kills per inferno grenade with the Krogan Soldier...They are really effective.  They drain enemy's health, not insta kill them.  I throw a grenade, walk away to find other targets, and 3 seconds later the bottom of the screen completely fills with "Ridley Rarzy[inferno grenade]assault trooper".  They are great.

It's probably been mentioned, but it's not a glitch when you sometimes don't get all your grenades when getting ammo.  They are on a cooldown until you can pick more up.

Exactly, those inferno grenades are great. It just bothers me that I cannot replenish them whenever i want. It's one of the powers for god's sake, why I have to wait XY amount of time to be avaibale to me?

[ncknck]

Darkslayer557 wrote...

ncknck wrote...

1. Throw out that Avenger I and equip a decent gun ( like Carnifax)
2. Turn on Adrenaline Rush
3. Headshot people
4. ???
5. Profit.

As an asari i can stasis bubble a cluster of enemies, having +150% vulnerability bonus on all of them, head shot them with ease (all not moving), helping our team to mow the stasised enemy. And hell, they don't even have a chance to fire back!

Stasis (Bubble) doesnt work quite as you think. It actually gives people 50% damage resistance. Further, casters will invest in force perks, where the soldier will have 50% more damage from Rush and 30% more damage from Training. The difference in damage will be -50% vs 180%. In other words a human soldier hits 4 times as hard as an an Asari or any other caster class. For not firing back, rush gives ya shields back, which is god mode because as long as shields are up a character cant die. 

Weapon users require a decent gun, and there are not a lot of guns in the demo and not a lot of people having Carnifex X or something, so their damage output for a general gamer isnt that high, yet.

[ncknck]

Here, as part of the team, i have just beaten the more difficult Gold map with a Human Soldier as an example. using nothing but Pistol and Rush. Also Krogun sux ihmo, he has damage reduction and melee, neither was particulary useful to me on gold. Damage is what counts.

 

Modifié par ncknck, 26 février 2012 - 11:41 .

[themaxzero]

ncknck wrote...

Here, as part of the team, i have just beaten the more difficult Gold map with a Human Soldier as an example. using nothing but Pistol and Rush. Also Krogun sux ihmo, he has damage reduction and melee, neither was particulary useful to me on gold. Damage is what counts.

 

There is the Adept and Infiltrator. No doubt they CCed everything and grabbed objectives while you got the kills.

They were the key members in the fight not you. Your job could of been done by pretty much any other class.

[Undead Potatoes]

Mr.House wrote...

That's why you play a krogan soldier.

I KNOW! The Inferno grenade is AMAZING! I get so many kills with those things, but the only thing is that I'm finding is that Fortification doesn't do much but besides that, Krogan Soldier is easily the best class.

[SkittlesKat96]

Grenades are actually good if you use them right...after practising with them for a little while I can just go up to two guardians and lob a grenade and kill them both (and if it doesn't kill them it staggers them and I just shoot them in the head with my rifle and it kills them quickly)