743 réponses à ce sujet

[kidbd15]

Planet scanning in itself was crap... I hated having to do it, and it seems like I'll have to do it for ME3 as well... I really liked the planet EXPLORATION using the Mako in ME1, gave the universe a more massive and immersive feel

[Nizzemancer]

MsKlaussen wrote...

Nizzemancer wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

Nizzemancer wrote...

I kinda like it, sure beats the previous system. And let's face it the mako, while fun for a while was frickin awful on the poorly designed planets we could drive them on.

I'm still kinda wondering if the reapers are in all the systems close to one relay or just the one where you scanned too much? If it's the latter it would probably be a bad idea to attract their attention in the system the relay is in.

Sorry, but I miss the Mako; hate the new hovercraft. While Shepard may be as good of a pilot as Jokert, I as the player am not....

Well yeah, there's no doubt that the Mako was a way better fighting vehicle than the Hammerhead, but the exploration with it didn't work at all in cooperation with the maps.

Someone probably sat around and painted large images in different scales of grey then shoved that into a program that generated different heights based on the shade and then it applied some generic textures before someone manually placed a few doodads all over it. Not really good design, great if you want to spit out a large amount of bland maps that are basicly untraversable, they knew that so they slapped a jetpack on the tank and presto - exploration.

Then work on the maps. I had no complaints as it was, since I had no problem operating the Mako and loved driving around on the planets. But many who didn't like it blamed the sameness of the environments and relative lack of action. Instead of building so much extra stuff in separate paid content, why not instead devote that time to filling out the environments that came with the game in the first place? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me the way it was done.

Someone (I can't remember who since anyone who voices concerns on anything around here is met with a faceless wall of mockery it seems), made a comment about someone's wish to return to the Mako as embracing monotony while rejecting what I guess must be the thrill a minute fun ride that plannet scanning made of ME2. I'm going to have to say there is more unknown involved with watching my nails grow. I sincerely hoped scanning met the cutting room floor, but I guess not.

If they've really made it less brainwave flattening, maybe it won't matter. Otherwise, scanning sucks. Running out of gas makes no sense whatsoever on a presumably antimatter and nuclear or some such propelled ship. A common nuclear powered aircraft carrier can go 15 years without refueling, yet a spaceship that can traverse galaxies near instantaneously and limitlessly without ever stopping cannot visit 4 planets in the same galaxy without refueling. Dumb. As is buying probes. It literally adds nothing to the game and could easily have been done without.  For that to be considered constructive and immersion supporting, but the elevators were dumped? Bah. 

If they were going to design each planets surface by hand and retain the sizes they'd have to spend a buttload of money and time doing that detracting from other entertaining parts of the game so it's obviously better to just streamline the gameplay and remove/turn down the sandbox elements.

And as for fuel, well if we are going by real laws of physics we would need an infinite amount of energy to achieve FTL travel so a money-sink in the form of fuel is an ok thing, the problem with it was that you didn't make a fraction of the same amount of money in ME2 as you did in ME1 making money-sinks into a big annoyance.

[Phaedon]

Wulfram wrote...
Not being a time sink is good

Being able to unlock every single upgrade in 5 minutes is not  good.

You would seem to show no consideration for what would break the game or not, just as long as you get unpunished with skipping the parts that require effort. For your information, that's what the exploration in ME1 did as well. ME1 has 7 main missions. Considerably less than recent COD games. Without the timesinking everyone seems to have hated, ME1 would have barely lasted more than 8 hours. That is, okay with you?

It's not that you can unlock everything at the end.  It's that you can unlock everything immediately.

Correction: That is what would have occured should your suggested removal of a fuel system go through.

You don't in fact, thanks to that limitation, unlock everything immediatelly. For starters, not only is the entire galaxy map open to you from the get go, since you need to unlock your way thorugh various systems.

Also, you point out what you think was a problem, while at the same time dismiss the fuel system as a time sinker. Logical fallacy.

In fact, if you wanted to have an actual limitation on the equipment it would be far better to limit the player to only stuff they could find on missions.

Except that considering how linear the maps were, recovering the loot doesn't require effort. In fact, that's probably just as bad as your suggestion to auto-unlock the upgrades, so I don't see why you try to differentiate them from one another.

No, I could find all resources I needed in game.  I did so, repeatedly, as the price for playing the good parts of the game.  Then on one of repeated playthrough modded, which changed nothing about the balance of the game, only allowed me to skip the pointless part.

Right. So you unlocked then, all the upgrades, from the get go, and that was a-okay? Considering that unlike, ME1, the upgrades of ME2 had a drastic statistical impact of the two-digit scale? Yeah, I don't see much reason to take your word for it, and I do apologize for that.

My last couple of playthroughs were hasty, and I used the save editor. The difference was big.

All your arguments are predicated on the false idea that resources are actually limited.

Limited enough to cause problems to a lot of us, even though we are perfectionists. Currently have done all DLCs but Arrivan and finished the main quest at a very reasonable or maybe even slow pace, with many interruptions for mining. I am still struggling for the final upgrades.

It's a galactic war.  Any war asset you can fit on your ship isn't going to make any real difference, and any lives you save will be less than the ones you're costing by delay.

But you don't fit them in your ship. You are assuming this, and you are incorrect. There are many war assets, such as Libraries or Obelisks, that can't be stored in the ship itself. You didn't store minerals either.

The other assumption is that size matters. Yeah, well, a small atom can kill millions, but we aren't talking about that either. 

and any lives you save will be less than the ones you're costing by delay.

 
Provide proof.

Not a real limitation.  Just inflicting more tedium on the player.

Yeah, I actually tried it. I should have realized that the suggestion was ridiculous even on a theoretical level.

If you never refuel, you'll never manage finish mining, you will always get sent back to the previous system. And that will happen in any following attempts you try to do. Again and again and again. Forget it. It can't happen, and it's silly to attempt it.

Going to actually interesting places where you can do things.

Oh, yeah. The ones that occur in the middle chapter of the game, which tend to mostly be, what, three or four planets? Most of them not actually hub worlds. Yeah, alright. I won't bite. It was one of the main goals of ME1 to differentiate its spaceship management than KOTOR.

I'd expect less than that, because I wouldn't expect Shepard to be going to reaper space without very good reason - and any landing on major plot worlds should be getting special cutscenes anyway.  On those occasions that the story calls for there to be a close encounter with a reaper, you can have an exciting chase scene or a tense hiding scene in the Normandy's stealth mode.

The whole randomly trawling through space for stuff would be scrapped.  Shepard doesn't have percentage complete sign to tell him he should keep scanning rather than getting on with his mission.

The thing that you seem to be missing is, that what you considered meaningless before the invasion, when you had equipped, understaffed, ammoless and unarmed fleets and soldiers are quite meaningful. It's a survival story. You will have to duck into the trash bin and try to find a gold pound among the feces.

[Wulfram]

Phaedon, what i don't think you're getting is that the upgrades are unlocked at precisely the same time whether I edit in more minerals or not. The limiting factor is always picking them up on the missions. Minerals are not a limited resource even without save editing.

edit:  Maybe slightly different in your first playthrough, since you don't start out with the big mineral bonuses.  I seem to recall Element Zero at least being an issue then, when on replays you start with more than you'll ever need.

What is needed are things capable of destroying Reapers. You're not going to find that trawling through the trash.

Everything else is barely relevant. If you can win the battle in space, then you've taken back earth, it's just a matter of mopping up. If you can't win the battle in space, then your ground forces are utterly useless.

Modifié par Wulfram, 28 février 2012 - 11:08 .

[TrumpetzGuy55]

looks alright. As long as i can still go down and check out some cool side quests on the planets ill be ok

[ciaweth]

The new scanning looks fine to me. One of the problems I found in ME2 was that after I got the prodigious buttload of minerals I needed to get every upgrade, there was no point in scanning any further. I missed some N7 missions that way.

One thing I'm not clear on from the preview is whether, once you're detected and chased by the Reapers, you can ever go *back* to that locale again.

[LiquidLogic2020]

Chris Priestly wrote...

teh_619 wrote...

You're willingly ignoring the fact that Bioware just removed planet exploration and didn't even try to improve on it.
Just that is a reason to criticize.

We did improve on planet scanning from ME2 to ME3. That was what was being discussed here. That was what I commented on. You can start criticizing the lack of superheroes, ham sandwiches and DDR elements as well if you are going to use this thread to criticize things that are also not included in planet scanning. I just thought we were discussing planet scanning.

Yes yes: "What? No superheroes, ham sandwiches, DDR elements, preorder cancelled". Nothing tired about that yet.

Ah glibness, it fixes everything does it not? 

[nipsen]

AlanC9 wrote...

nipsen wrote...

..this is just for the navigation on the map, though. Nothing else. You're supposed to be looking at a hyper-advanced holographic map and encyclopaedia of the galaxy, to get abstract feedback on everything that happens.. and it's actually an incredibly silly flight-simulator.

But the ME1 map wasn't the actual Normandy interface. Both maps are abstractions of Normandy's command procedures. You just like ME1's abstraction better than ME2's.

Well... yes. In ME2, you travel blindly ahead through a star-cluster, only to suddenly figure out that you don't have enough fuel for the return trip. But that's ok, because the ship is actually set up to hide from you that when you have spent all the fuel, you actually have /exactly/ the amount of fuel needed to go back to base after all. No matter how far you traveled away from the base. Mathematics and physics be damned.

Maybe it would have been possible to use that fuel more effectively if I didn't run in circles for a while because it was so funny - but hey, the ship's AI takes care of it. And then you can just set out exploring randomly again.

...seriously, though, it's just silly. Even if we had a real-time flight system of some kind, there would be an autopilot to travel somewhere. The mere idea that you would take a ship and pull randomly around traveling at near light speed is ludicrous.

Besides, wouldn't it be much more fun if you looked at the galaxy map, found a cloud of stars somewhere, plotted a virtual course across the interface into nowhere, and then hit the "engage" button? 

And then when you arrive, you would zoom in the cloud of stars, and find the star-systems and the planets. I mean, it's not like it doesn't take effort to make these mini-games, is it? So why not spend the effort on something slightly more wholesome. I'm not asking for Babylon 5 style zooming down from the milky way view seamlessly into the cockpit (or something like what they did in Nexus: The Jupiter Incident - from famously overpaid Hungarian developers Mythis, who evidently had too much time and money on their hands when they made Nexus).

But just having something that still looked like a real-time map, rather than a weird collection of mini-games you can play from the captain's chair. Really, just imagine Shepard standing on the pidestal there and controlling a small model ship farting around the galaxy like that. Nerdcore slapstick right there.

...sorry, turned into another "woe developer" rant, didn't it.. >_<

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

ciaweth wrote...

The new scanning looks fine to me. One of the problems I found in ME2 was that after I got the prodigious buttload of minerals I needed to get every upgrade, there was no point in scanning any further. I missed some N7 missions that way.

One thing I'm not clear on from the preview is whether, once you're detected and chased by the Reapers, you can ever go *back* to that locale again.

In the video he clearly does go back to that area after leaving it at one point, but as soon as he does the Reapers are on him like a house on fire.

So you can and you can't, I guess it depends on whether you can outrun/maneuver some Reapers or not

[ciaweth]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

ciaweth wrote...

The new scanning looks fine to me. One of the problems I found in ME2 was that after I got the prodigious buttload of minerals I needed to get every upgrade, there was no point in scanning any further. I missed some N7 missions that way.

One thing I'm not clear on from the preview is whether, once you're detected and chased by the Reapers, you can ever go *back* to that locale again.

In the video he clearly does go back to that area after leaving it at one point, but as soon as he does the Reapers are on him like a house on fire.

So you can and you can't, I guess it depends on whether you can outrun/maneuver some Reapers or not

Yup, I did see that.  I was just wondering if perhaps there's a timer.  Wait X amount of time, and then you can go back to that system without having to hold onto your butt for dear life. 

[seirhart]

nipsen wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

nipsen wrote...

..this is just for the navigation on the map, though. Nothing else. You're supposed to be looking at a hyper-advanced holographic map and encyclopaedia of the galaxy, to get abstract feedback on everything that happens.. and it's actually an incredibly silly flight-simulator.

But the ME1 map wasn't the actual Normandy interface. Both maps are abstractions of Normandy's command procedures. You just like ME1's abstraction better than ME2's.

Well... yes. In ME2, you travel blindly ahead through a star-cluster, only to suddenly figure out that you don't have enough fuel for the return trip. But that's ok, because the ship is actually set up to hide from you that when you have spent all the fuel, you actually have /exactly/ the amount of fuel needed to go back to base after all. No matter how far you traveled away from the base. Mathematics and physics be damned.

Maybe it would have been possible to use that fuel more effectively if I didn't run in circles for a while because it was so funny - but hey, the ship's AI takes care of it. And then you can just set out exploring randomly again.

...seriously, though, it's just silly. Even if we had a real-time flight system of some kind, there would be an autopilot to travel somewhere. The mere idea that you would take a ship and pull randomly around traveling at near light speed is ludicrous.

Besides, wouldn't it be much more fun if you looked at the galaxy map, found a cloud of stars somewhere, plotted a virtual course across the interface into nowhere, and then hit the "engage" button? 

And then when you arrive, you would zoom in the cloud of stars, and find the star-systems and the planets. I mean, it's not like it doesn't take effort to make these mini-games, is it? So why not spend the effort on something slightly more wholesome. I'm not asking for Babylon 5 style zooming down from the milky way view seamlessly into the cockpit (or something like what they did in Nexus: The Jupiter Incident - from famously overpaid Hungarian developers Mythis, who evidently had too much time and money on their hands when they made Nexus).

But just having something that still looked like a real-time map, rather than a weird collection of mini-games you can play from the captain's chair. Really, just imagine Shepard standing on the pidestal there and controlling a small model ship farting around the galaxy like that. Nerdcore slapstick right there.

...sorry, turned into another "woe developer" rant, didn't it.. >_<

It may be silly to you but to me and probably some of the others it isn't silly I find the way we do it in ME 2 and 3 just fine and I don't like the idea of using the auto pilot I want full control just like we have full control in ME 2 and in 3. The idea you came up with about looking at a map and then plotting a course and then hitting engage to me is the dumbest idea ever just like how ME 1 was, I absolutely hated that where was the control like you have in ME 2 where you enter the map and you pilot the ship

[tay2208]

Better than the long elevator rides in ME1.

[Madatyou]

Nizzemancer wrote...

If they were going to design each planets surface by hand and retain the sizes they'd have to spend a buttload of money and time doing that detracting from other entertaining parts of the game so it's obviously better to just streamline the gameplay and remove/turn down the sandbox elements.

What you just said there, that's exactly the attitude that makes games suck. Good job.

Modifié par Madatyou, 29 février 2012 - 05:10 .

[Phaedon]

Wulfram wrote...

Phaedon, what i don't think you're getting is that the upgrades are unlocked at precisely the same time whether I edit in more minerals or not. The limiting factor is always picking them up on the missions. Minerals are not a limited resource even without save editing.

"Unlocked" here is used as in "ready for use". I should have specified, sorry.

There would be a big problem if you could instantly use every upgrade you would have gotten. That'd break the customization system, which like traditional RPG systems, focuses on when and how much you'll have points/resources to invest and in which area, regardless if the points are a finite resource or not.

Not sure what you mean by saying that minerals are not limited.

edit:  Maybe slightly different in your first playthrough, since you don't start out with the big mineral bonuses.  I seem to recall Element Zero at least being an issue then, when on replays you start with more than you'll ever need.

You don't start with more than you'll ever need. You start with a pretty good boost that allows to unlock the SM-relevant upgrades. If you start wasting that bonus, you are doomed to have to go through mining. Or modding.

What is needed are things capable of destroying Reapers. You're not going to find that trawling through the trash.

It is well established that ships aren't capable of destroying Reapers either. And yet, fleets are pretty important war assets. Quite frankly, it's you who is dismissing the scanning bonuses as "trash". BioWare isn't. The game isn't. The game considers them as war assets. And assets matter. And I am referring to the war assets, while other bonuses that scanning gives you are side quests that can lead to minor alliances or even directly rescuing lives aren't even brought up here.

And I find it quite interesting what you call as trash. When major points of refueling, restocking, millions of fightworthy men and women, ammunition and weapons have already been reaped six says to Sunday, you can't be picky about what you get.

Everything else is barely relevant. If you can win the battle in space, then you've taken back earth, it's just a matter of mopping up. If you can't win the battle in space, then your ground forces are utterly useless.

Well, it seems to me that you haven't come in contact with many spoilers. I won't bring you in contact with them, either. However, if that is your main position, then you'll likely see why War Assets are important, come ME3.

Just a few notes.

Who talked about ground forces only? The only example I brought had to do with fleet munition.

But it's been established that multiple fleets and the Destiny Ascension couldn't take out a Reaper. I don't think that your anticipation to win the battle in space is logical.

[Geth Unit_X930]

I loved piloting the ship after all it is a sci fi space game who dosent want to fly a space ship that looks so awesome!

[Sailears]

nipsen wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

nipsen wrote...

..this is just for the navigation on the map, though. Nothing else. You're supposed to be looking at a hyper-advanced holographic map and encyclopaedia of the galaxy, to get abstract feedback on everything that happens.. and it's actually an incredibly silly flight-simulator.

But the ME1 map wasn't the actual Normandy interface. Both maps are abstractions of Normandy's command procedures. You just like ME1's abstraction better than ME2's.

Well... yes. In ME2, you travel blindly ahead through a star-cluster, only to suddenly figure out that you don't have enough fuel for the return trip. But that's ok, because the ship is actually set up to hide from you that when you have spent all the fuel, you actually have /exactly/ the amount of fuel needed to go back to base after all. No matter how far you traveled away from the base. Mathematics and physics be damned.

Maybe it would have been possible to use that fuel more effectively if I didn't run in circles for a while because it was so funny - but hey, the ship's AI takes care of it. And then you can just set out exploring randomly again.

...seriously, though, it's just silly. Even if we had a real-time flight system of some kind, there would be an autopilot to travel somewhere. The mere idea that you would take a ship and pull randomly around traveling at near light speed is ludicrous.

Besides, wouldn't it be much more fun if you looked at the galaxy map, found a cloud of stars somewhere, plotted a virtual course across the interface into nowhere, and then hit the "engage" button? 

And then when you arrive, you would zoom in the cloud of stars, and find the star-systems and the planets. I mean, it's not like it doesn't take effort to make these mini-games, is it? So why not spend the effort on something slightly more wholesome. I'm not asking for Babylon 5 style zooming down from the milky way view seamlessly into the cockpit (or something like what they did in Nexus: The Jupiter Incident - from famously overpaid Hungarian developers Mythis, who evidently had too much time and money on their hands when they made Nexus).

But just having something that still looked like a real-time map, rather than a weird collection of mini-games you can play from the captain's chair. Really, just imagine Shepard standing on the pidestal there and controlling a small model ship farting around the galaxy like that. Nerdcore slapstick right there.

...sorry, turned into another "woe developer" rant, didn't it.. >_<

Absolutely! I love that idea - charting a course in the map and saying "make it so" to Joker/EDI. So much better than leading a little ship around the map.
If only...

Modifié par Curunen, 29 février 2012 - 10:06 .

[pavi132]

Reviving this thread. Scanning does, indeed, suck compared to ME 2. It seems so random. Yes, it is less time consuming, but still with its mechanics, it somehow manages to be more frustrating.

[_Sylar_]

Okay..a quick question..Some Reapers showed on the galaxy map,but I can't click on them?There are other on the point systems where I can explore and so on,but there are few which just stand there?Any idea if that's a glitch or it should be that way?

To comment on the scanning:well I liked it!Felt kinda simple,but for me it's better than ME2.In ME2 I really hated checking every planet for resources.The new way is much better,but I hoped that there would be more wreckage,artifacts,war assets..more planets with maybe more solutions aiding the final push.

Modifié par _Sylar_, 09 mars 2012 - 02:10 .

[Jaryd theBlackDragon]

pavi132 wrote...

Reviving this thread. Scanning does, indeed, suck compared to ME 2. It seems so random. Yes, it is less time consuming, but still with its mechanics, it somehow manages to be more frustrating.

Agreed, the scanning in ME2 wasn t so bad once you got all the fuel you needed down. But in ME3 it s so bloody random and annoying, I hate it, I mean, really really HATE it.

Modifié par Jaryd theBlackDragon, 10 mars 2012 - 10:24 .