373 réponses à ce sujet

[Ferelden Templar]

Recidiva wrote...

Dog can fire the ballista?  How cool is he?  How cool?  Soooo cool!  I agree, Dog should get more.
I do have to admit that one of my male characters kept waiting for romance options with Alistair.  Bum-mer.
I was very surprised that Morrigan won't tolerate you sleeping with anybody else even though she says she will not make any demands on you.  Also, Zevran will say that he doesn't mind that I'm sleeping around, but Alistair would.  Took me a game to figure that one out.  You really can't be polyamorous without hurting someone.  Not what I expected from an otherwise hardcore game.  Even a toughened up Alistair ninjas me in those fun unavoidable conversations you can't get out of without choosing one or the other.

Hmm? I had the opposite. Female Elf mage on the XBOX 360 as my Main. Slept with Alistair... Sidetracked a bit with Leliana... decided to remain friends with her. Alistair was "concerned" if IIRC. Then slept with Zevran... Zevran in a conversation wanted to know where he stood with me and Alistair. Broke his heart. Spoke with Alistair... he didn't know what was going on.

Seems like Alistair thought I was incapable of lusty hijinks on the side. :innocent:

[Axterix]

Recidiva wrote...

I'm giggling over here considering bringing out a slide rule and trying to calculate a "normal" survival rate for a secret and highly deadly ceremony.
"Let's see...two, carry the inherent horror and fear.  Subtract sense.  Add in any need for vengeance and/or wrath...hmmm."
I can't resist the answer of "42"

I think that's a good answer. 

Henceforth, the official survival rate of the Warden Innitation Ceremony shall be 42%.  So let it be written, so let it, well, be.

[Recidiva]

[quote]Ferelden Templar wrote...

[quote]Hmm? I had the opposite. Female Elf mage on the XBOX 360 as my Main. Slept with Alistair... Sidetracked a bit with Leliana... decided to remain friends with her. Alistair was "concerned" if IIRC. Then slept with Zevran... Zevran in a conversation wanted to know where he stood with me and Alistair. Broke his heart. Spoke with Alistair... he didn't know what was going on.

Seems like Alistair thought I was incapable of lusty hijinks on the side. :innocent:

[/quote]

It's really weird.  My first time through I just hung out with Alistair and barely talked to anybody else.  No questions, really.  Took my second or third playthrough to remember the trick of "save before you go to camp" because of the ninja effect.

I know Leliana and Zevran and Morrigan and Alistair ALL managed to Ninja me.   I remember sleeping with Zevran and having Alistair tell me he didn't like that, and forcing me to choose (even though he had a hardened personality and I thought it wouldn't be an issue.  I was wrong.)   I didn't get the Zevran ninja until I tried talking to Zevran next, waaaaay down the line of the game.  THEN I got a -27 rating, after I'd been giving him gifts and getting cutscenes for the boots and the like.  Very odd.  And depends on how far the story progresses and when the characters get high enough into adoration to start feeling...proprietary and jealous.  It has to do with the individual character's rating, personality and otherwise as to when it'll trigger, I think.  But it WILL trigger.
Tried lying to Leliana and telling her that Morrigan just liked...discussing strategy.  She didn't buy it.
It's theoretically possible to raise everyone's faction to 100 before you then tromp around camp, sleeping with one, going to the next, ending it with the previous one, going to the next, ending it with the previous one...and then never talking to them ever again.
But that's exhausting and mostly I just told characters they were being unreasonable and pissing everyone off. 
Now I save myself the headache and pick who I'm going to be involved with before I start, and avoid any other conversations with other characters that involve the words "beautiful" or "handsome." to save myself the ninja-ing.
In reality I'm very much like something Zevran said "I tell you that you are beautiful because it's true."  I had no idea that by doing so in practically every case where it's possible, you're not just giving someone a compliment, you're opening them up to getting their feelings hurt when you I had no idea I was even "involved" with them.

[Masonking]

Well, for me it was a moot point getting Logain into the Grey Wardens when it all boils down to the fact the u lost one Warden cuz u wanted to gain 1, though I did try both endings. I suppose it just comes down to who u want to fight beside u in the final scene...and would u rather save the beaten enemy-hero general (who killed the King and tried to kill u) or would u rather save a Grey Warden and ur friend who has fought along side u through ur entire journey (who also happens to be the only legitimate heir to the thrown)? And remember the recurring theme in the whole game---betrayal---would u betray Alistair?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Recidiva wrote...
Jory couldn't take a wolf solo, much less Duncan.

Actually he can take a wolf solo, but that's beside the point. Leave the game mechanics aside, since they are not accurate representations of someones skills. Jory is a knight in Reecliffe. To get there, you have to be good.

The joining involves mages and Lyrium and darkspawn and archdemon blood.That's not blood magic how?   Riordan and Alistair both explain that it's very complicated and involves magic.

The Joining involves mages because they are the only ones with direct acess to Lyrium

As for picking those who can survive the joining, his judgment leading thim to a loss of  two out of three...is bad.

Those who have a good chance of surviving the Joining. There are no gurantees. Besides, we do not know if Jory would have survived if he drank.


The whole point most of us here on this thread have been trying to make is that accepting Loghain into the Wardens is NOT the only sensible choice for anyone roleplaying a "true warden" - as some here claimed.
I would argue the complete opposite.

Duncan chose Allistair, and not because of his fighting skills. Could it be that is was exactly his morals why he wanted him? To keep the Wardens honest?

Allistair takes the darkspawn seriously, Loghain doesn't.
Allistair respects the Grey Wardens, Loghain tries to destroy them.
Allistair helps you trought the game, Loghain is trying to kill you.
Allistair is a normal person, Loghain is just playin loco.
Allistair has morals, Loghain has...something I guess.
Allistair hasn't made any tactical or logical bluders, Loghain just keeps piling them onto a mountain.
Allistair hasn't betrayed anyone, Logain betrayed pretty much everyone.

B.t.w. - Rhodian is an old coot, probably senile, who doesn't even have first-hand experience of Loghains s***.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 28 novembre 2009 - 09:34 .

[DPSSOC]

I sided with Allistair cause regardless of how useful Loghain might be he's tried to kill me on numerous occasions.



Ostagar

Lothering

Zevran

Before the Landsmeet

After the Landsmeet



Now the 1st time I let slide, we've all made mistakes, but if you try to kill me twice(or more) you're a dead man.

[Tesslyn]

The Orlais forces had a brutal occupation. Loghain mentions seeing old and sick Fereldans hunted for sport and beaten to death by the occupying forces. Sort of like if you saw people rounded up and put into gas showers.

Rhodian is an old coot, probably senile, who doesn't even have first-hand experience of Loghains s***.

I've no love for Rhiordan but he was caged and tortured by Loghain. Hes got more reason to hate than Alistair does... IF he let his own feelings cloud his reason. He doesn't.

Also I mean.. Loghain failed to stop the PC? Oh come on thats like saying Frodo was stronger than Sauron's forces because the PLOT guarded and protected him the whole way to mount doom.

Modifié par Tesslyn, 28 novembre 2009 - 11:16 .

[Recidiva]

Actually he can take a wolf solo, but that's beside the point. Leave the game mechanics aside, since they are not accurate representations of someones skills. Jory is a knight in Reecliffe. To get there, you have to be good.

The Joining involves mages because they are the only ones with direct acess to Lyrium

Those who have a good chance of surviving the Joining. There are no gurantees. Besides, we do not know if Jory would have survived if he drank.

The whole point most of us here on this thread have been trying to make is that accepting Loghain into the Wardens is NOT the only sensible choice for anyone roleplaying a "true warden" - as some here claimed.
I would argue the complete opposite.

Duncan chose Allistair, and not because of his fighting skills. Could it be that is was exactly his morals why he wanted him? To keep the Wardens honest?

Allistair takes the darkspawn seriously, Loghain doesn't.
Allistair respects the Grey Wardens, Loghain tries to destroy them.
Allistair helps you trought the game, Loghain is trying to kill you.
Allistair is a normal person, Loghain is just playin loco.
Allistair has morals, Loghain has...something I guess.
Allistair hasn't made any tactical or logical bluders, Loghain just keeps piling them onto a mountain.
Allistair hasn't betrayed anyone, Logain betrayed pretty much everyone.

B.t.w. - Rhodian is an old coot, probably senile, who doesn't even have first-hand experience of Loghains s***.

Yes, Ser Jory is a good character.  Daveth isn't.  Daveth was a cutpurse from Denerim who tried to steal from Duncan.

There's no way that Ser Jory could have taken on Duncan even if Duncan was asleep.  Duncan was a soft-spoken ruthless badass with years of fighting experience and that little extra added darkspawn blood just for a bonus in the stamina and strength department.  He wades through the Noble castle under siege alone.  He fights his way to the mirror in the Dalish story surrounded by darkspawn corpses.  He climbs a troll with his blades and kills it solo.  Ser Jory does not compare in guile or determination or skill.  It never occurred to me for a moment to think of Ser Jory as any level of physical threat.  He just couldn't be allowed to escape. 

Flemeth says the most prophetic stuff regarding how to face the story.  "Human hearts hold shadows darker than any tainted creature." and "Close your eyes tight or open your arms wide, either way, one's a fool." 

Alistair's views of Duncan as his personal savior were fine.  But idealizing him as a "good" archetype is unrealistic when compared to Duncan's actions as you play through the starting stories.  Duncan will take any vile piece of work as long as they can fight.  And it isn't about who will survive the joining, there's no indication that he knew anything about what made someone capable of surviving.  His only criteria was - could you fight darkspawn effectively IF you survived.

If Duncan were a "good" character, there'd be no possibility of being a completely self-centered evil ass after the Joining, and the game clearly allows for that.  All the starting stories give you opportunities to display to Duncan that you're entirely out for yourself and lacking in the moral compass department.  He'll still take you.
Duncan IS the shade of grey that sets the tone.  But his example is certainly not telling people to be "good."  It's telling people get ready to fight every step of the way.

As for comparing Alistair to Loghain, I don't really think those are the only comparisons available.  Alistair is in hero worship mode and Loghain is paranoid about Orlais, and that's what guides their actions.  The only pragmatic use for Loghain is in picking up on the fact that somebody's gonna die and that's the main reason to kill off someone that so richly deserves it.  "Sparing" him isn't really sparing him.  Forcing the Joining on him is much more cruel than just chopping off his head.   Alistair's mistaken that it's an honor.  

Riordan knows exactly who Loghain was and what he did.  He spent all that time In Howe's dungeon.  You pick up a lot there.  He had no illusions about who Loghain was, and he was also at the Landsmeet.  Riordan also doesn't care about character, only ability to fight.   Completely consistent with Duncan's actions and just about every option available to you as a recruiter and a decision maker as a Grey warden.  Do the most horrific thing and just say "Grey Wardens have always taken help/advantage when it was offered/presented itself."

Considering you can side with golems (murder and slavery), werewolves (magically cursed and tortured humans) and Templars who are out of a job since their last gig of systematically tempting and then murdering mages went south, being a Grey Warden is not set up to be "good" in any way.  And Duncan is the herald of that.

Modifié par Recidiva, 28 novembre 2009 - 11:20 .

[Herr Uhl]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

B.t.w. - Rhodian is an old coot, probably senile, who doesn't even have first-hand experience of Loghains s***.

Yes, the Rhodians probably have scarce experience of Loghain.

On a more serious note: So you didn't find him in Howes own little prison after being tortured, odd.

[Recidiva]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Yes, the Rhodians probably have scarce experience of Loghain.

On a more serious note: So you didn't find him in Howes own little prison after being tortured, odd.

I don't think it's possible to miss that.  It's a cutscene that triggers on the only entrance down into the dungeon.

[Herr Uhl]

Recidiva wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Yes, the Rhodians probably have scarce experience of Loghain.

On a more serious note: So you didn't find him in Howes own little prison after being tortured, odd.

I don't think it's possible to miss that.  It's a cutscene that triggers on the only entrance down into the dungeon.

Yes, that is my point exactly.

[Akka le Vil]

Tesslyn wrote...

The Orlais forces had a brutal occupation. Loghain mentions seeing old and sick Fereldans hunted for sport and beaten to death by the occupying forces. Sort of like if you saw people rounded up and put into gas showers.

But of course, being sold into slavery or dragged underground by darkspawn is rather nice in comparison, right ?

[Recidiva]

But of course, being sold into slavery or dragged underground by darkspawn is rather nice in comparison, right ?

Given a choice between coming a Broodmother or a Grey Warden, I'll take the Grey Warden.

That should be the new campaign slogan for Grey Warden recruitment.  "Got Brood?"

[Recidiva]

Yes, that is my point exactly.

Heh.  Finding him doesn't meaning asking him all the relevant questions though.  First time through I missed the Warden's Cache entirely, and also missed asking him how he was captured.  Jumped to "come with me" because I thought he'd be safest that way, and then he left on account of being injured and such.

[Tesslyn]

Akka le Vil wrote...

Tesslyn wrote...

The Orlais forces had a brutal occupation. Loghain mentions seeing old and sick Fereldans hunted for sport and beaten to death by the occupying forces. Sort of like if you saw people rounded up and put into gas showers.

But of course, being sold into slavery or dragged underground by darkspawn is rather nice in comparison, right ?

Yes. More evil lurks in the hearts of men than in any tainted beast.

[Akka le Vil]

Tesslyn wrote...

Yes. More evil lurks in the hearts of men than in any tainted beast.

Oh sure. Being eaten alive is just so much pleasant !

I hope you were just being ironic with the pseudo-philosophical platitudes ?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Tesslyn wrote...
I've no love for Rhiordan but he was caged and tortured by Loghain. Hes got more reason to hate than Alistair does... IF he let his own feelings cloud his reason. He doesn't.

You're assuming that Rhiordans decisions and reasoning are sound (regardles of emotions). Your'e assuming that not being clouded by emotions (a big if. How do you know Rhiodan wasn't?) automaticly means your reasoning is better tehn someone who does let emotions affect his reasoning.
We are spiritual and emotional creatures after all. Removing emotions altogether from the decision-making process is an extreeme that's not good either.

And true, he was caged by Loghain, but that still keep him from witnessing all of many other Loghains flaws and mistakes.

Yes, Ser Jory is a good character.  Daveth isn't.  Daveth was a cutpurse from Denerim who tried to steal from Duncan.

Being a thief makes you evil?
Oy, poor Alladin. Hm...come ot think of it, hal the fantasy characters and hearoes should then be put to the torch - according to your logic. A lot of them started as petty thieves.
Really now? Does Daveth strikes you as evil? He is perfectly willing to sacrifice himself to stop the blight.

There's no way that Ser Jory could have taken on Duncan even if Duncan
was asleep.  Duncan was a soft-spoken ruthless badass with years of
fighting experience and that little extra added darkspawn blood just
for a bonus in the stamina and strength department.  He wades through
the Noble castle under siege alone.  He fights his way to the mirror in
the Dalish story surrounded by darkspawn corpses.  He climbs a troll
with his blades and kills it solo.  Ser Jory does not compare in guile
or determination or skill.  It never occurred to me for a moment to
think of Ser Jory as any level of physical threat.  He just couldn't be
allowed to escape.

For the love of God, stop thinking is so narrow "character level" terms. It doesn't matter how badass you think someone is. Any human - from the lovest of pesants to the greatest swordmasters - are only flesh and blood. They die easily. All it takes is one lucky hit with a sword or arror - and you're dead. Swordmastery or badassery doesn't help really. And Jory isn't a n00b with a blade. He's a trained knight. He might not be as skilled as Duncan, but he doesn't have to be to kill him.
Maybe duncan could have disarm him. Maybe. If someone pulls a sword/knifew/gun, would you really take that chance? If your disarming attempt fails, you leave yourself open and vulnerable.

And it isn't about who will survive the joining, there's no indication
that he knew anything about what made someone capable of surviving.
 His only criteria was - could you fight darkspawn effectively IF you
survived.

Again, wrong. It's not about pure fighting skill. I allready mentioned that before. It's in the background fluff. Proven stuff.
Also, you kow your characters in depth. Duncan doesn't. He doens't have a completel picture to judge your character in every situation. he takes help where he can, but I never got the impression he would really take on complete monsters.

Forcing the Joining on him is much more cruel than just chopping off his head.   Alistair's mistaken that it's an honor. 

Allistair is not mistaken because it IS a friggin honor. Practicly everyone in Ferelden thinks that. PROVEN FACT.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 28 novembre 2009 - 01:16 .

[Recidiva]

Allistair is not mistaken because it IS a friggin honor. Practicly everyone in Ferelden thinks that. PROVEN FACT.

Aaaaand...they don't know that you have to drink darkspawn blood to join.  And how would they know?  That's right!  They won't.  They just think it's a bunch of patriotic folks.  And why won't they find out?  Because Duncan will kill you if you try to leave and possibly tell anyone.

How do you know they know?  Just because they won't insult a warden to their face usually?  There are plenty of people who want to kill Grey Wardens and don't give a damn about them other than they look rich or they have a
bounty on their heads.  I know, I had to kill a bunch of 'em.

The ends do not justify the means.  Ferelden is in awful shape and there's a better way.  Involving disclosure and consent.  But being reasonable doesn't make for a very fun game.  If everyone went around being honest and noble and trusting other people, well...hell, that's no game at all.

Modifié par Recidiva, 28 novembre 2009 - 01:30 .

[Axterix]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You're assuming that Rhiordans decisions and reasoning are sound (regardles of emotions). Your'e assuming that not being clouded by emotions (a big if. How do you know Rhiodan wasn't?) automaticly means your reasoning is better tehn someone who does let emotions affect his reasoning.
We are spiritual and emotional creatures after all. Removing emotions altogether from the decision-making process is an extreeme that's not good either.

And true, he was caged by Loghain, but that still keep him from witnessing all of many other Loghains flaws and mistakes.

If he were emotional, odds are he'd be like Alistair, calling out for his death.

He steps beyond that though, he sees Loghain as something to be used against the Blight, once stripped of his position.

Being a thief makes you evil?
Oy, poor Alladin. Hm...come ot think of it, hal the fantasy characters and hearoes should then be put to the torch - according to your logic. A lot of them started as petty thieves.
Really now? Does Daveth strikes you as evil? He is perfectly willing to sacrifice himself to stop the blight.

Stealing isn't a good act, typically.  It is evil.  But it isn't as evil as some other things and then there's the situation where you steal from evil, thereby doing good by stealing, but, well, Daveth is a pick-pocket, who steals from ordinary people.  That is not a victimless crime, good people get hurt by his actions.  So, yeah, he's a minor evil at that time.

But he's got capacity for good.  Even though he's forced into being a Warden, he is the one who comments on how it'd be worth dying to stop the Blight.

For the love of God, stop thinking is so narrow "character level" terms. It doesn't matter how badass you think someone is. Any human - from the lovest of pesants to the greatest swordmasters - are only flesh and blood. They die easily. All it takes is one lucky hit with a sword or arror - and you're dead. Swordmastery or badassery doesn't help really. And Jory isn't a n00b with a blade. He's a trained knight. He might not be as skilled as Duncan, but he doesn't have to be to kill him.
Maybe duncan could have disarm him. Maybe. If someone pulls a sword/knifew/gun, would you really take that chance? If your disarming attempt fails, you leave yourself open and vulnerable.

Not goign to disagree with this, gong to agree in a different way.  Mainly, that what Duncan could have done doesn't matter.  The act of not being willing fails the test as much as drinking and not surviving the process.  The cost of failure is death. 

Duncan didn't kill Jory because it was safer to do so rather than disarm him.  He killed him because it was Warden policy to do so.

Again, wrong. It's not about pure fighting skill. I allready mentioned that before. It's in the background fluff. Proven stuff.
Also, you kow your characters in depth. Duncan doesn't. He doens't have a completel picture to judge your character in every situation. he takes help where he can, but I never got the impression he would really take on complete monsters.

Agreed.  Fighting skill is one aspect of it, but the wardens are also after certain mental characteristics.  Being a Warden requires being willing and able to do certain things.  Fighting is only one of them, though a universal one for all wardens.

Allistair is not mistaken because it IS a friggin honor. Practicly everyone in Ferelden thinks that. PROVEN FACT.

Yup, they say it.  But they also say Wardens will take anyone, regardless of past, if they feel that person will be useful.  You'll find that in the dwarven noble origin story, for example. 

I'd say being picked to be a Warden is not an honor.  After all, tournament winner, petty thief, thug/murderer, falsely accused exiled noble, noble on the run from noble politics, dalish infected with the taint, mage caught between templars and the Circle possibly helping a mage escape the tower, and the inner city elf retelling of Braveheart.

Being a Warden and all it entails, the self sacrifice and such, that is.  But it stems from committing yourself to the Warden cause, not from the circumstances behind your recruitment.

[tmp7704]

Axterix wrote...

If he were emotional, odds are he'd be like Alistair, calling out for his death.

The interesting twist in all that was, while Rhiodan is technically Ferelden citizen, he comes from Orlais where he's spent many years up to that point in game. Loghain is getting saved by the very kind of person he hated and feared the most.

As Sten would say it, "The irony of it isn't lost on me..."

Modifié par tmp7704, 28 novembre 2009 - 01:54 .

[dmcdonald12]

Count Viceroy wrote...

His personal quest with his sister. Tell him afterwards that everyone is out for themselves. He'll toughen up, become more confident and actually look out for himself. An example would be if you make him king while romancing him. If he's not hardened, he'll brake it of for the sake of duty and responability where as if he's hardened he'll keep the female pc around as a mistress because he wants to. **** who thinks otherwise

Actually there is a path where Alistair doesnt need to be hardened and you can actually marry him and become queen regardless.

[Axterix]

Recidiva wrote...

The ends do not justify the means.  Ferelden is in awful shape and there's a better way.  Involving disclosure and consent.  But being reasonable doesn't make for a very fun game.  If everyone went around being honest and noble and trusting other people, well...hell, that's no game at all.

Ends do justify the means though.  Consider two people taking their lives.  One does it because he has a bad day.  The other does it by jumping on a grenade to save someone else.  Both choose to end to their life as the means.  The ends justify one of those means.  And that applies to a lot of other things as well, to varying degrees.

Whether or not the ends justify the means depends on a judgement of the value of the end and the cost of the mean, as well as other possible variations of the ends and different means that could be used to accomplish said ends.  Rest assured, the more a particular end is viewed as necessary, the more means become acceptable.  Hence why we have terms like "justifiable homicide."

The Grey Wardens know their society.  Their belief is that if the truth was known, they could no longer function and accomplish their end, that being the destruction of blights/darkspawn and thereby saving humanity.  If that means they have to kill some people so that others might live, they are fine with that.  The end justifies it.

That's the world they live in.  It isn't our world.  It isn't our pampered, idealistic societies.  It is their world.  And they know better than us what might happen if they laid it all out for everyone.

[wlderotter]

I was bummed out by it - he threw a hissyfit when I had Eamon's wife killed to save the son, a -20 in attitude too. So I try to show some compassion after beating the bad bad Loghain and he friggin quits. Well I never actually liked Alistair anyways.

[Recidiva]

Ends do justify the means though.  Consider two people taking their lives.  One does it because he has a bad day.  The other does it by jumping on a grenade to save someone else.  Both choose to end to their life as the means.  The ends justify one of those means.  And that applies to a lot of other things as well, to varying degrees.

Whether or not the ends justify the means depends on a judgement of the value of the end and the cost of the mean, as well as other possible variations of the ends and different means that could be used to accomplish said ends.  Rest assured, the more a particular end is viewed as necessary, the more means become acceptable.  Hence why we have terms like "justifiable homicide."

The Grey Wardens know their society.  Their belief is that if the truth was known, they could no longer function and accomplish their end, that being the destruction of blights/darkspawn and thereby saving humanity.  If that means they have to kill some people so that others might live, they are fine with that.  The end justifies it.

That's the world they live in.  It isn't our world.  It isn't our pampered, idealistic societies.  It is their world.  And they know better than us what might happen if they laid it all out for everyone.

Well, if I have to live in their world and save their asses then I get to have an opinion.  It's not without precedent, either.  Some of the most punishing, elite, life-shortening programs (i.e. Navy Seals, Delta Force) in humanity have a looooong waiting list of people dying to prove themselves and they're given full disclosure that it's punishing, painful, and can result in a quick death even in training.  They have to turn people away in droves who don't qualify.  Even the less elite and less glamorous have people lining up for glory.  But sell real glory, not a cheat.

I don't consider myself pampered or idealistic.  I consider that not lying to people when they're expected to make personal sacrifices produces better warriors.  History proves there are lots of people who are willing to be true heroes, and not accidentally tricked into it.

That would be the ends justifying the means.  A little more time and someone bright would come up with a better way.  Work with what you've got, but don't resort to pre-empting all heroic impulses by giving people no real choices.

Besides, the darkspawn wipe out all humanity and they lose all their reproductive options.  Not win-win, but something they should think about.  If they could think.

Walk out of Orzammar and begin a recruitment campaign based on "Drink darkspawn blood!  Save your mother and wife and daughter from THIS! (flash picture of Broodmother)" Now THAT would produce tons of willing participants.

The reality is bad enough to justify what's being done, there's no need to hide it.  But if you're looking for real glory or real heroism, you can't trick your way into it.

Modifié par Recidiva, 28 novembre 2009 - 02:35 .