373 réponses à ce sujet

[Valmy]

Joie de Combat wrote...
My impression was that Loghain's plan was to wipe out the Grey Wardens, because he believed they were in league with Orlais to take over Ferelden. That's why he argues against Cailain taking the field with the Wardens and why he argues against having Wardens in the tower to light the beacon - his plan was for the beacon to never be lit and the Wardens to be slaughtered. Cailan was collateral damage.

No question he believed that about the Wardens.  That seems like a really really risky plan under the circumstances after all he would be sending alot of his countryment to their deaths as well.

My understanding was that rather he blamed the Wardens for the defeat rather then setting the whole thing up...but I suppose in his paranoid dillusion he could have.

The primary hole in this for me is why he would then wait around for the beacon to be lit before calling the retreat if he did not expect it to be lit...or wait I guess he would have suspected it would be lit now that the two Grey Wardens were going to do it.  So then he planned to hang around so all his men could see him retreat when they all knew he was supposed to charge?  My head hurts.

Again does Loghain explain himself to the PC about Ostagar at any point?  I didn't have him long enough to talk to him much....I am suddenly curious.

[Akka le Vil]

RunCDFirst wrote...
Ser Cautherin isn't a tactician.
The PC only displays the ability to command a small unit, not an entire army. 
You can't really argue that there are or aren't any great tacticians other than Loghain. No one says Loghain is the only tactician in Fereldan, only that he's a really great one. For all we know, Anora is an amazing military leader. Or it could be that the rest of the Fereldan military is composed of people who have trouble deciding which end of their sword to stick in the darkspawn.

It stands to reason to believe that any country has at least SOME competent guys in the army. I mean I certainly hope.

[cooldevo]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

So you're saying the great Loghain doesn't have any trusted commanders servuign under him? You're saying that the PC is not a capable tactician in his own right. You're saying you NEED Loghain in any way?
That's just preposterous.
You've a got a whole army behind you, and Loghain is a filthy traitor who'd stab you in the back without regrets.
He sabotaged the Grey Wardens efforts. He friggin spat on their corpses with his lies.

No, I kinda think duncan would want him very much dead.

Think all you want, it doesn't make it the only way.  Where was the option to get other commanders?  Or even a better talent recruiter and trainer for the Wardens after the big fight?  Name one that you could pick instead.  Alistair?  No way in the black city could he spot talent for the life of him let alone train them.  Unless it was as a templar.  He doesn't even want to nor know how to lead.

And what about Alistair abandoning his oath?  About doing whatever it takes to stop a Blight?  Abouting letting his personal vendettas ruin his life and those around him?  What about him dishonoring Duncan by just walking away from the Grey Wardens?  How's that any better?  He seemed to think it was an honor, like a shining knight coming to save the world.  Iit was not like that in any sense of the word.  They used apostates, blood magic, criminals awaiting execution as members.  They are not the personification of saint hood, or those that are upstanding citizens.  To represent a true Grey Warden in the way Duncan did would be just wrong to pass on such a strong prospective addition.  The Blight first, no matter the cost.

[Herr Uhl]

Just so people out there know. There are people who don't think that what Loghain did is right, smart or good in any way. Still, that does not mean that he can't be of use. You don't have to think "yeah, I'm badass and don't follow the rules" to figure that out.



He is a paranoid bastard in the game, but even bastards can be of use.

[tmp7704]

Akka le Vil wrote...

It DOES tend to swallow you for extended period of times, doesn't it ?

tvtropes is evil place. But deliciously so.

[syllogi]

So if it isn't misguided anti-hero worship could a Loghain apologist please explain how these points:



1) elevating the man who slaughtered one of the highest noble families in the country to his right hand man, and rewarding him.



2) selling citizens into slavery.



3) poisoning another important noble, whose only crime is that he *might* disagree with him.



4) supporting blood mages in the Circle of Magi.



5) retreating from the field of battle, disregarding the direct orders of his king.



6) declaring all Grey Wardens to be criminals, in the middle of a Blight, hiring an assassin for the Grey Wardens he hasn't caught, and imprisoning the one Grey Warden he does catch.



make him an expert tactician, worthy of redemption, and necessary to ending the Blight? Also, please explain why Alistair is damned for MAYBE running away, while Loghain is applauded for feeling remorseful ONLY after being defeated and pardoned. I've asked these questions before, and no one is answering, only giving more of the same excuses for Loghain's behavior.

[Axterix]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

So you're saying the great Loghain doesn't have any trusted commanders servuign under him? You're saying that the PC is not a capable tactician in his own right. You're saying you NEED Loghain in any way?
That's just preposterous.

Those trusted commanders under Loghain will most likely serve better following Loghain.  As to the PC being a capable tactician, the human noble origin might be.  But for the others, no, nothing indicates that they are.

Loghain is also THE hero of the country.  Especially peasants.  He not only drove out the hated Orlesians, but he got turned into a noble.  He was best friends with the king.  His daughter married the king's son.  Local boy makes good.  And there will be a lot of peasant levies in that army, fresh troops that were farm boys.

And for the army as a whole, having the great hero leading them?  That boosts morale, might just stop them from breaking while fighting the darkspawn.

Basically, having him on your side, is pretty good in terms of unifying the country.  Those that support him, he's still there.  Those that opposed him, he's been removed from political power.  And your army will be used better, will fight better, because of him.

No, I kinda think duncan would want him very much dead.

I think you are forgetting how pragmatic Duncan is. 

After all, this is the same Duncan who told a dying noble he'd save their kid...but only if they gave that kid to him as a Warden.  The same Duncan who took a mage who conspired to escape or help others escape from the Circle.  Yeah, he also lends a hand to some people in bad situations.  But if he sees qualities that are useful in someone and he gets a chance to take that person, he'll take them.

Keep in mind that taking Loghain is the idea of another Grey Warden.  One who knows what Loghain did and was tortured.

Grey Wardens are supposed to be above personal issues.  All that matters is the Blight.  And if something improves your odds of defeating the Blight, then it should be considered.

[RunCDFirst]

Akka le Vil wrote...

RunCDFirst wrote...
Ser Cautherin isn't a tactician.
The PC only displays the ability to command a small unit, not an entire army. 
You can't really argue that there are or aren't any great tacticians other than Loghain. No one says Loghain is the only tactician in Fereldan, only that he's a really great one. For all we know, Anora is an amazing military leader. Or it could be that the rest of the Fereldan military is composed of people who have trouble deciding which end of their sword to stick in the darkspawn.

It stands to reason to believe that any country has at least SOME competent guys in the army. I mean I certainly hope.

I would hope so too. Redcliffe does fall to a group of mindless corpses though... 

[SarEnyaDor]

Just a random thought - how the heck do the turn Loghain into a Grey Warden anyway? Just hours previous Riordan says that the Archdemon blood was stolen and no new grey Wardens could be made .... is that cleared up somewhere? I have not been able to force myself to betray Alistair yet, even knowing the rest of my achievements await....

[Valmy]

Akka le Vil wrote...
Except the raw FACTS of the game disgree and prove the opposite : Howe attacking Highever (the family that could bid for the throne if Cailan and Eamon died, and like Cailan said "just how did he thought he could get away from that ?") and suddendly being made the right-hand of Loghain, Eamon being poisoned, all this happening several days BEFORE the battle.
Loghain WAITING for the signal that signify "the battle has started" (hence the king can not pull out anymore) before retreating.
Loghain NOT saying that the army should retreat (if he thought the battle was going to be lost  and he wasn't planning a betrayal, then WTH ?).

If you're willing to forget the entire plot of the game, yeah, you can say that he didn't plan it. But I'm afraid facts are facts, and betrayals happening before the battle even start tend to prove that it was planned...
point and why it's so laughable to see all people twisting and bending the fact to make him appear like a good guy.

Well I certainly do not think he was a good guy how many times to I have to repeat that?  The dude clearly went on a paranoid insane rampage.  I didn't think he knew for sure they would lose at Ostagar.  How could he have known how many Darkspawn would be attacking that it would be sufficient for his plan.  I guess he could have counted on Caillan being a fool but why did he work so hard to council him to fight cautiously if he planned for the King to put himself in that position?  Wouldn't it be wiser to goad him on and feed his dreams of glory with the Wardens if that was his plan?

But you got me on the timing of some of the betrayals.  I do not know explicitely how much of this was Howe and how much was Loghain and when and why the whole thing went into motion.  It could have been Loghain lost it right when King Cailan invited the Orlesians in and Howe and his cronies stepped right in to get whole plot in motion.  His fury just seems more logical if he he goes nuts after the battle but I guess the timeline clearly suggests either he or Howe had already had the whole thing in mind from a period just prior to the battle.

[RunCDFirst]

[quote]TeenZombie wrote...
...make him an expert tactician, worthy of redemption, and necessary to ending the Blight? Also, please explain why Alistair is damned for MAYBE running away, while Loghain is applauded for feeling remorseful ONLY after being defeated and pardoned. I've asked these questions before, and no one is answering, only giving more of the same excuses for Loghain's behavior.[/quote]

Well Alistair runs away of his own accord. That's hardly Loghain's fault. Loghain doesn't hold a sword to his throat.
Loghain is only necessary for ending the Blight in the sense that a Grey Warden has to kill the archdemon. 
I think that about answers your questions.

quote]SarEnyaDor wrote...

Just a random thought - how the heck do the turn Loghain into a Grey Warden anyway? Just hours previous Riordan says that the Archdemon blood was stolen and no new grey Wardens could be made .... is that cleared up somewhere? I have not been able to force myself to betray Alistair yet, even knowing the rest of my achievements await....[/quote]


It's confiscated by Loghain. Presumably, he didn't destroy the blood the Grey Wardens kept.

Modifié par RunCDFirst, 25 novembre 2009 - 08:24 .

[Akka le Vil]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Just so people out there know. There are people who don't think that what Loghain did is right, smart or good in any way. Still, that does not mean that he can't be of use. You don't have to think "yeah, I'm badass and don't follow the rules" to figure that out.

He is a paranoid bastard in the game, but even bastards can be of use.

The point is rather that Loghain has already shown in the past that his total lack of concern for the Blight.
You want in Grey Warden people who actually CARE about the Blight.
Additionnally, Grey Warden do what it takes to stop the Blight because it serves a purpose of GREATER GOOD. It stand then to reason that they are people who have no qualm about using whatever is needed when it's REQUIRED, but still have some moral fiber. Loghain is a totally horrible person and is of dubious use as a Warden, so does it really balance out ? If it's a choice between him and Alistair, it doesn't even compare, Alistair wins everywhere (save for the very informed attribute of Loghain being supposedly a great general, because it certainly didn't look so in the game).

Saving Loghain is a very evil thing to do, and doesn't bring any significant benefit. If being ruthless doesn't actually helps anything, what's the point (beyond being evil for the sake of evil) ?

[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]Valmy wrote...

He did think the Darkspawn were beatable, obviously he was trying to build up an army to do so, he just thought that particular battle was lost.  Why else would he look so angry when he left the field?  He thought the king had blundered and Orlais and the Grey Wardens were responsible for it.

I mean that makes sense. [/qutoe]

No, it doesn't.
You don't build up an army and destroy the blight by loosing half of your own forces and starting a civil war. Just how many of the forces lost at Ostagar were capable veterans? Replacing them with fresh recruits is surely an excellent idea.
Even Duncan was hopefull that they might end the Blight there. So obviously the plan was good enough and they had enough forces.

[Valmy]

TeenZombie wrote...
make him an expert tactician, worthy of redemption, and necessary to ending the Blight? Also, please explain why Alistair is damned for MAYBE running away, while Loghain is applauded for feeling remorseful ONLY after being defeated and pardoned. I've asked these questions before, and no one is answering, only giving more of the same excuses for Loghain's behavior.

I gave no excuses for Loghains behavior, I was only trying to understand it.  Obviously Howe told Loghain, or believed himself, that the Couslands were in league with the Orlesians he says so when you confront him and that is a pretty easy pill for Loghain to swallow.
 
Loghain is not necessary to end the Blight and everybody is worthy of redemption if by redemption they mean being sent on a suicide mission.  He deserves at least some credit for not only doing it but understanding why he needed to as well as his role in driving out the Orlesians in the war that made him a hero to begin with.

I think Alistair > Loghain but I am sure dissapointed in him on a personal level.

[Herr Uhl]

TeenZombie wrote...

So if it isn't misguided anti-hero worship could a Loghain apologist please explain how these points:

1) elevating the man who slaughtered one of the highest noble families in the country to his right hand man, and rewarding him.

2) selling citizens into slavery.

3) poisoning another important noble, whose only crime is that he *might* disagree with him.

4) supporting blood mages in the Circle of Magi.

5) retreating from the field of battle, disregarding the direct orders of his king.

6) declaring all Grey Wardens to be criminals, in the middle of a Blight, hiring an assassin for the Grey Wardens he hasn't caught, and imprisoning the one Grey Warden he does catch.

make him an expert tactician, worthy of redemption, and necessary to ending the Blight? Also, please explain why Alistair is damned for MAYBE running away, while Loghain is applauded for feeling remorseful ONLY after being defeated and pardoned. I've asked these questions before, and no one is answering, only giving more of the same excuses for Loghain's behavior.

Well I don't see myself as an apologist, since I see him as a bastard. Just don't see the need in killing him.

Supporting blood mages is controversial, not outright evil. Before the chantry, blood magic was commonplace.

WHY does he need to be absolutely necessary to end the blight, one can still be an asset. And this fool notion of it being some kind of redemption irks me.

Why does his behavior need to be excused, he did wrong, granted. But how does killing him make it better than letting him do something worthwhile for once (since the revolution at least).

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 25 novembre 2009 - 08:29 .

[Zalbaar]

As far as Howe is concerned his ancestors were in league with the orlesians. If you are a noble and talk to the teacher about your past it says that the howes were in league with them and when they were about to lose switched sides. The whole thing was more likely Howes idea.

[syllogi]

RunCDFirst wrote...
Well Alistair runs away of his own accord. That's hardly Loghain's fault. Loghain doesn't hold a sword to his throat.
Loghain is only necessary for ending the Blight in the sense that a Grey Warden has to kill the archdemon. 
I think that about answers your questions.

My point has always been, if you are playing a "good" character, why in the world would you choose to keep Loghain around, knowing about his previous actions?  I've read the Stolen Throne, and listened to the party banter files, so I do appreciate that he has depth beyond what is presented in the game...but the Loghain we are presented with in the game is unapologetically evil.  It is blatantly clear. 

If you do not win the duel with Loghain, he would execute you, your party members, and Riordan.  No more Grey Wardens in Fereldan, he'll never allow new ones in, game over, darkspawn and the archdemon win.  THAT is the guy you think is more worthy than Alistair of a second chance.  I just don't get it.

[Valmy]

TeenZombie wrote...

So if it isn't misguided anti-hero worship could a Loghain apologist please explain how these points:

1) elevating the man who slaughtered one of the highest noble families in the country to his right hand man, and rewarding him.

2) selling citizens into slavery.

3) poisoning another important noble, whose only crime is that he *might* disagree with him.

4) supporting blood mages in the Circle of Magi.

5) retreating from the field of battle, disregarding the direct orders of his king.

6) declaring all Grey Wardens to be criminals, in the middle of a Blight, hiring an assassin for the Grey Wardens he hasn't caught, and imprisoning the one Grey Warden he does catch.

Ok with the caveat that I think these were all very bad things to do here we go:

1. Howe claimed the Couslands were working on behalf of the Orlesians.  That seems to be all you need with Loghain.

2. I have no idea why he felt this was necessary but he clearly said it was a necessary evil in wartime.  WTH he meant by that is not clear to me.

3. For the same reason Anora wants to have Alistair executed.  Who else besides the grandfather of the King could step in as Regent?

4. I did not get the impression he knows much of anything about magic or the fade or blood magic he just knew there were mages in the tower who supported him and thus wanted that guy to take over as head enchanter.  But hey considering everything else he did maybe he even though it was justified even if he knew about blood magic and all that.

5. That is sort of what I have been talking about this whole thread.

6. Because he thinks they are going to turn the country over to Orlais which is, for obvious reasons, where most of the Grey Wardens in that part of the world are from.  Further he doesn't know why the Grey Wardens are necessary to end the Blight.

[Lotion Soronarr]

cooldevo wrote...

Think all you want, it doesn't make it the only way.  Where was the option to get other commanders?  Or even a better talent recruiter and trainer for the Wardens after the big fight?  Name one that you could pick instead.  Alistair?  No way in the black city could he spot talent for the life of him let alone train them.  Unless it was as a templar.  He doesn't even want to nor know how to lead.

And you're assumeing Loghain has some super talent-spotting ability? Allistair knows more about Grey Wardens that Loghain does. Where do you pull this stuff out?
Being a great tactician has nothing to do with beinga great recruiter.

And what about Alistair abandoning his oath?  About doing whatever it takes to stop a Blight? 

Loghain isn't necessary to stop the Blight. Ergo, he is not breaking his oath.
Loghain MIGHT be usefull, but so can pretty anyone else you ran into. At the same time he's also a great liability.

Abouting letting his personal vendettas ruin his life and those around him?  What about him dishonoring Duncan by just walking away from the Grey Wardens?  How's that any better?  He seemed to think it was an honor, like a shining knight coming to save the world.  Iit was not like that in any sense of the word.  They used apostates, blood magic, criminals awaiting execution as members.  They are not the personification of saint hood, or those that are upstanding citizens.  To represent a true Grey Warden in the way Duncan did would be just wrong to pass on such a strong prospective addition.  The Blight first, no matter the cost.

Loghain isn't such a strong, perspective adition. He had all that power behind him and you still whooped his ass.

The whole point is that YOU DON'T NEED LOGHAIN. He isn't neccesary. He isn't a must-have.
He's probably more trouble than he's worth (even thinking politicly. His trechery was exposed and he was alrleady leading the land into a civil war. How many nobles would want him dead? You granting him assylum within the Grey Warden is everything BUT being politicly neutral, it will probably p*** off half the country).

[Sarethus]

Valmy wrote...

That explanation makes no sense.  if that was his plan all along why did he ask Cailan not to be in that spot in the first place?  He never even wanted to be Teyrn in the first place and now he makes a naked grab to be King for no reason?

The only logical explanation is he made the decision to retreat on the spot because he believed the battle was lost and the Grey Wardens and Orlais responsible and went suitably nutso with paranoia.  None of the rest of his actions are even remotely logical without that being true.  Then he becomes just an unpeakably evil bad guy rather than a misguided crazy fanatical paranoid guy and the whole path of his redemption wouldn't make any sense.

@Bold: Loghain does not want to be Teyrn or King or even a Consort for that matter. What he wants is for Fereldan to be safe and prosper however he also believes that he is the one best suited to make the decisions that will make Fereldan safe and prosperous.  During Maric's reign and for uptill the end of Cailen's, Loghain was the power behind the throne. They largely followed Loghain's ideas and so all was good as far as Loghain was concerned. When Cailan decided to stop listening to Loghain especially in a matter concerning Orlais well, if the King doesn't listen to Loghain then the King has to go doesn't he? 


As for the rest of your post do bear in mind remember Loghain had alliance's in place to take power (if not the title) before the battle.
Howe: Who attacked the Cousland's knowing that the King would be unable to help his allies.  
Uldred: Who went straight back to the tower after the battle with an alliance with Loghain (Uldred even returned faster then Wynn so he could not have had time to chat with Loghain after the battle.)
Jowan: Who had to have poisoned the Arl prior to the battle for the time line to make any sense. 

[Akka le Vil]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Loghain isn't such a strong, perspective adition. He had all that power behind him and you still whooped his ass.

The whole point is that YOU DON'T NEED LOGHAIN. He isn't neccesary. He isn't a must-have.
He's probably more trouble than he's worth (even thinking politicly. His trechery was exposed and he was alrleady leading the land into a civil war. How many nobles would want him dead? You granting him assylum within the Grey Warden is everything BUT being politicly neutral, it will probably p*** off half the country).

Bingo.

[Valmy]

TeenZombie wrote...
My point has always been, if you are playing a "good" character, why in the world would you choose to keep Loghain around, knowing about his previous actions?  I've read the Stolen Throne, and listened to the party banter files, so I do appreciate that he has depth beyond what is presented in the game...but the Loghain we are presented with in the game is unapologetically evil.  It is blatantly clear. 

If you do not win the duel with Loghain, he would execute you, your party members, and Riordan.  No more Grey Wardens in Fereldan, he'll never allow new ones in, game over, darkspawn and the archdemon win.  THAT is the guy you think is more worthy than Alistair of a second chance.  I just don't get it.

Ok let me think why I decided exactly to spare him.  I took awhile agonizing over this.

First I wanted to accept his surrender for political reasons: so I would not upset his supporters and divide the country again.  After all that was my thinking for having Anora and Alistair marry.  Then when Alistair got really upset, frankly I was surprised he felt so vehemently that nothing but execution was possible...I thought maybe I should go ahead and killl him...but then when Rhiordan made his suggestion it seemed like the perfect solution.  I was a little shocked by Alistair's blood thirstyness and rather confused by his claim that getting accepted into Warden's is an honor when thieves and murderers get conscripted all the time.  I mean there is a conscription process it is not like people line up for the privlege.

Also I never kill unarmed people in these games generally unless I absolutely cannot avoid it (well in the persona my human noble play through was taking on at least).  Loghain just seemed more useful that way...then when I heard how the Archdemon had to be slain it was perfect.  Loghain, the man responsible for so much death and chaos, could now pay us all back.  Impressively Loghain understood that perfectly and did it willingly.

I hope Alistair would forgive me and return at the end but he did not.  I do feel bad about that I hoped it would work out for everybody.  At least we both lived to tell the tale though.

Modifié par Valmy, 25 novembre 2009 - 08:42 .

[RunCDFirst]

TeenZombie wrote...
My point has always been, if you are playing a "good" character, why in the world would you choose to keep Loghain around, knowing about his previous actions?  I've read the Stolen Throne, and listened to the party banter files, so I do appreciate that he has depth beyond what is presented in the game...but the Loghain we are presented with in the game is unapologetically evil.  It is blatantly clear. 

If you do not win the duel with Loghain, he would execute you, your party members, and Riordan.  No more Grey Wardens in Fereldan, he'll never allow new ones in, game over, darkspawn and the archdemon win.  THAT is the guy you think is more worthy than Alistair of a second chance.  I just don't get it.

Hey, if Alistair were to come back to me, asking if I'd let him back into the party to kill darkspawn, I'd let him rejoin in a heartbeat. 
I don't really adhere to the notion that sparing Loghain is a moral decision but more of a practical one. We've already lost so many warriors, why should we be killing more? For some sense of justice? Revenge? I'm a Grey Warden and I have a Blight to end. I'll toss aside petty vengeance and moral retribution in order to kill the archdemon. If Alistair can't live with my leadership decisions, then it's probably best that he leaves.
Sparing Loghain isn't really a question of redemption but more a question of what's the best tactical solution. Will the troops that serve under Loghain serve better, knowing their leader and hero is standing with them? Will the rest of the populace rally under the Hero of the River Dane against the darkspawn horde?
Loghain has greater use alive then dead, especially once he gives his oath to the cause. 
Course, as a Human Noble, things are different. I'm going to quite enjoy sticking his head on a pike. The bastard.

[Obliterati]

TeenZombie wrote...

My point has always been, if you are playing a "good" character, why in the world would you choose to keep Loghain around, knowing about his previous actions?  I've read the Stolen Throne, and listened to the party banter files, so I do appreciate that he has depth beyond what is presented in the game...but the Loghain we are presented with in the game is unapologetically evil.  It is blatantly clear. 

If you do not win the duel with Loghain, he would execute you, your party members, and Riordan.  No more Grey Wardens in Fereldan, he'll never allow new ones in, game over, darkspawn and the archdemon win.  THAT is the guy you think is more worthy than Alistair of a second chance.  I just don't get it.

Why not keep him around? I keep that  Sten around, and he went crazy and slaughtered an entire family becuase he stupidly lost his piece-of-scrap sword. I keep him around because he's useful.

As a Grey Warden, I would use anyone or anything to defeat the darkspawn. Loghain, Sten, a Blood Mage, werewolves, demons, whatever...they're all just weapons to be hurled at the enemy. Win or die, that's the choice. Good and evil? Sheesh...

And Loghain wouldn't have killed any Grey Wardens if he knew that only a Grey Warden can defeat the Blight. but those oh-so-precious secrets kinda got in the way there...

[Valmy]

Akka le Vil wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Loghain isn't such a strong, perspective adition. He had all that power behind him and you still whooped his ass.

The whole point is that YOU DON'T NEED LOGHAIN. He isn't neccesary. He isn't a must-have.
He's probably more trouble than he's worth (even thinking politicly. His trechery was exposed and he was alrleady leading the land into a civil war. How many nobles would want him dead? You granting him assylum within the Grey Warden is everything BUT being politicly neutral, it will probably p*** off half the country).

Bingo.

Assylum?  Even joining the Grey Wardens is fatal more often then not and then he gets to charge the Blight on the front lines.  His joining was a death sentence and it was intended to be not assylum.