122 réponses à ce sujet

[Thunderfurby]

Regardless of which is the best weapon, I prefer the Widow for the armor pen, I don't always have the AP Ammo so it's pretty useful for tearing through Atlas's and getting fast Guardian kills while on the move.

Also shooting through walls and cover is pretty fun.

[Gnarlesee]

UK Wildcat wrote...

In that group construction / role construction, that should work fine, that's an example of excellent team play compensating for any holes each member may have by selecting an optimal construction.

For everyday gameplay, I believe the widow is the inferior gun, but sniper builds can be good with rapid fire weapons. I do see some merit, as I said before, in an atlas killing build, but atlases go down very rapidly through ED's and Carnifex shots just from a solo infiltrator.

Wish i had that damn Carnifex unlocked :/

[Sabbatine]

UK Wildcat wrote...

Sabbatine, you are posting nonsense, I won't waste time addressing the same crap that's been debunked over and over.

You aren't one-shotting anything on gold with a widow except for assault troopers and guardians.

Yawn.  It's not my fault you lack experience with skilled players on the gold difficulty.  Even if it were true and you were unable to one shot any enemies on gold difficulty the widow would still be the more efficient weapon because for the first time in the game the Widows full damage potential is utilized.

Claiming something has been debunked does not make it so.  In the future you might want to include an actual argument in your post.  As it stands now you're just proving to me and the rest of us that you don't know nearly as much as you think you do.

[UK Wildcat]

Sabbatine wrote... Even if it were true and you were unable to one shot any enemies on gold difficulty the widow would still be the more efficient weapon because for the first time in the game the Widows full damage potential is utilized.

You are theorycrafting and don't even understand how gold mechanics work as is evident from your posts.  The full damage potential is not realized on gold.  I've already explained why.  Go back to your fantasy land where you know what you are talking about, I heard they are serving some nice food for you and the other trolls that live under your bridge.

[Leeroi]

Uhm... if you can energy drain in 1 hit you're sacrificing weapon damage which will result in carnifex being unable to drop opponents with 1 bullet whereas the widow will still retain that capability, even with a body shot. Do some testing before dropping those erroneous "hints" of yours. And honestly, I agree with you that the Carnifex is a great gun. However, you insisting that it's the be-all end-all of guns is like saying in Counter Strike the AWP sucks because you can 1 hit kill with a headshot with an M16. Hint: both weapons are good. Can't see your logic at all. You also failed the address my points about survivability so I'll assume you agree with me on that.

And yeah, no point in arguing over COOP game. People will always choose what they feel most comfortable with, stats are mostly irrelevant.

Modifié par Leeroi, 27 février 2012 - 12:43 .

[Sabbatine]

UK Wildcat wrote...

You are theorycrafting and don't even understand how gold mechanics work as is evident from your posts.  The full damage potential is not realized on gold.  I've already explained why.  Go back to your fantasy land where you know what you are talking about, I heard they are serving some nice food for you and the other trolls that live under your bridge.

I'm afraid not, you're the one who doesn't understand how the mechanics work.  If you did understand then you would have explained why the claymore can one shot enemies on gold difficulty after trying to convince us all that enemies can't be one shot on gold difficulty.

[UK Wildcat]

Sabbatine wrote...
I'm afraid not, you're the one who doesn't understand how the mechanics work.  If you did understand then you would have explained why the claymore can one shot enemies on gold difficulty after trying to convince us all that enemies can't be one shot on gold difficulty.

UK Wildcat wrote...
On a side note, the only gun that can 1
shot kill on gold to the best of my knowledge from the demo guns is the
Claymore.

Why don't you go to timeout now?  This is making you look more and more bad.

[UK Wildcat]

Leeroi wrote...

Uhm... if you can energy drain in 1 hit you're sacrificing weapon damage which will result in carnifex being unable to drop opponents with 1 bullet whereas the widow will still retain that capability, even with a body shot. Do some testing before dropping those erroneous "hints" of yours. And honestly, I agree with you that the Carnifex is a great gun. However, you insisting that it's the be-all end-all of guns is like saying in Counter Strike the AWP sucks because you can 1 hit kill with a headshot with an M16. Hint: both weapons are good. Can't see your logic at all. You also failed the address my points about survivability so I'll assume you agree with me on that.

And yeah, no point in arguing over COOP game. People will always choose what they feel most comfortable with, stats are mostly irrelevant.

You can energy drain, then 1 shot headshot enemies with a Carnifex, I don't get what you are saying.  How is that 'sacrificing weapon damage'?

Modifié par UK Wildcat, 27 février 2012 - 01:07 .

[FlyingWalrus]

Better weight to effect ratio? Perhaps.

Better able to shoot through everything? Unless you have AP rounds, NOPE.

[Eric13574]

Sabbatine wrote...

UK Wildcat wrote...

You are theorycrafting and don't even understand how gold mechanics work as is evident from your posts.  The full damage potential is not realized on gold.  I've already explained why.  Go back to your fantasy land where you know what you are talking about, I heard they are serving some nice food for you and the other trolls that live under your bridge.

I'm afraid not, you're the one who doesn't understand how the mechanics work.  If you did understand then you would have explained why the claymore can one shot enemies on gold difficulty after trying to convince us all that enemies can't be one shot on gold difficulty.

Widow adds a ton of weight, basically making class abilities useless

Widow is a single shot weapon, a very slow killer.  God forbid 2+ enemies target you at the same time, because they will be able to walk up and around your cover, say hello, play a game of monopoly, then kill you before you can reload.

Widow's only advantage over other weapons is the armor penetration, but carrying an extremely heavy gun just to penetrate guardian shields?  An adept should be able to easily remove all shields, and if you're still worried about them, attach AP rounds.

I agree, the widow is extremely overhyped, there are plenty of ways to deal with guardians and atlas

Modifié par Eric13574, 27 février 2012 - 01:10 .

[Sabbatine]

UK Wildcat wrote...

Sabbatine wrote...
I'm afraid not, you're the one who doesn't understand how the mechanics work.  If you did understand then you would have explained why the claymore can one shot enemies on gold difficulty after trying to convince us all that enemies can't be one shot on gold difficulty.

UK Wildcat wrote...
On a side note, the only gun that can 1
shot kill on gold to the best of my knowledge from the demo guns is the
Claymore.

Why don't you go to timeout now?  This is making you look more and more bad.

Nice job.  You just quoted yourself saying what I accused you of saying.

Your claim is that unspecified game mechanics prevent the widow from one hit killing enemies on gold difficulty... but those same universal game mechanics don't prevent a claymore from one hit killing enemies on gold difficulty.

[Thoragoros]

FlyingWalrus wrote...
Better able to shoot through everything? Unless you have AP rounds, NOPE.

Simply not true.

A level 2 widow is already at max damage.  Due to the random system, by the time you have a level 2 Widow, you will most likely already have a level 5 or above Mantis, which with a barrel upgrade is also nearly at max damage.

Now, if you tech an Infiltrator, you get significant damage bonuses to your sniper rifle, meaning that on Silver, with your cloak active you can 1 shot headshot a centurian and nemisis.

So really, unless you just simply cannot aim for the slot or arm of the Guardian, or absolutely must have the armor piercing, I just don't see the need to nearly double your recharge penalty.

[UK Wildcat]

Thoragoros wrote...
So really, unless you just simply cannot aim for the slot or arm of the Guardian, or absolutely must have the armor piercing, I just don't see the need to nearly double your recharge penalty.

But 'Widow' sounds cool 1!11!one

Modifié par UK Wildcat, 27 février 2012 - 01:27 .

[Elecbender]

Thoragoros wrote...

A level 2 widow is already at max damage.  Due to the random system, by the time you have a level 2 Widow, you will most likely already have a level 5 or above Mantis, which with a barrel upgrade is also nearly at max damage.

You can exceed 999 damage in this game.  The bar though only displays up to 999 damage.

[FlyingWalrus]

Thoragoros wrote...

FlyingWalrus wrote...
Better able to shoot through everything? Unless you have AP rounds, NOPE.

Simply not true.

A level 2 widow is already at max damage.  Due to the random system, by the time you have a level 2 Widow, you will most likely already have a level 5 or above Mantis, which with a barrel upgrade is also nearly at max damage.

Now, if you tech an Infiltrator, you get significant damage bonuses to your sniper rifle, meaning that on Silver, with your cloak active you can 1 shot headshot a centurian and nemisis.

So really, unless you just simply cannot aim for the slot or arm of the Guardian, or absolutely must have the armor piercing, I just don't see the need to nearly double your recharge penalty.

My Mantis is actually Mk. IX.

It's a great gun, but I like the raw unstoppable power that my oversized phallic symbol gives me.

And note that I did not say anything that was untrue—I simply said that the Widow can't be beat in shooting through everything!

Also, after actually playing with it I have to say that though it is heavy, the recharge times are not unmanageable at all.

[Nubletcakii]

Sabbatine wrote...

UK Wildcat wrote...

Sabbatine wrote...
I'm afraid not, you're the one who doesn't understand how the mechanics work.  If you did understand then you would have explained why the claymore can one shot enemies on gold difficulty after trying to convince us all that enemies can't be one shot on gold difficulty.

UK Wildcat wrote...
On a side note, the only gun that can 1
shot kill on gold to the best of my knowledge from the demo guns is the
Claymore.

Why don't you go to timeout now?  This is making you look more and more bad.

Nice job.  You just quoted yourself saying what I accused you of saying.

Your claim is that unspecified game mechanics prevent the widow from one hit killing enemies on gold difficulty... but those same universal game mechanics don't prevent a claymore from one hit killing enemies on gold difficulty.

obviously because a shotgun fires more then one bullet. If you actually played gold you'll know that ONE bullet cannot ever break through a shield and hp at the same time. SInce claymore is multiple bullets it does'nt affect them. Honestly if you actually jsut played gold by yourself and tested it out you would see that you can't break any shields with a single bullet.

[YKfox]

Honestly, I will take my Widow IV any day over my Mantis X. On a Salarian infiltrator specced right, I can even equip a Carnifex I with my Widow and still be at least up around +4%-ish cooldown. If I use a Predator pistol I remain around +37%-ish.

It's heavy, but you can work around that. As for the single shot limitation... I'm pretty sure the Mantis is single shot too.

[CheetahZ1]

Sabbatine wrote...

UK Wildcat wrote...

Sabbatine wrote...
I'm afraid not, you're the one who doesn't understand how the mechanics work.  If you did understand then you would have explained why the claymore can one shot enemies on gold difficulty after trying to convince us all that enemies can't be one shot on gold difficulty.

UK Wildcat wrote...
On a side note, the only gun that can 1
shot kill on gold to the best of my knowledge from the demo guns is the
Claymore.

Why don't you go to timeout now?  This is making you look more and more bad.

Nice job.  You just quoted yourself saying what I accused you of saying.

Your claim is that unspecified game mechanics prevent the widow from one hit killing enemies on gold difficulty... but those same universal game mechanics don't prevent a claymore from one hit killing enemies on gold difficulty.

Actually he might be right there. Since the shotgun fires more than 1 shot simaltaneously, the pellets drain the shield, and the remaining ones hit health, causing a 1 shot.

And the mechanic he's talking about is legitamate. I'll go ahead and say for myself that I've seen it many times.
I'm actually going to try a Salarian Infiltrator on Gold run now with a Carnifax and a Viper. I think my Viper X weighs less than my Carnifax I, but the Clip size/ Rof might make the Carnifax better, but that'll be all about testing.

I'd like to thank you for bringing up this point as it might help me out alot ( If i ever decide to play). At least try to keep the argument a bit simple though? And just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make him a troll just saying. Maybe just a bit illogical.

Modifié par CheetahZ1, 27 février 2012 - 02:47 .

[FearTheLiving]

Sabbatine wrote...
Yawn.  It's not my fault you lack experience with skilled players on the gold difficulty.  Even if it were true and you were unable to one shot any enemies on gold difficulty the widow would still be the more efficient weapon because for the first time in the game the Widows full damage potential is utilized.

Claiming something has been debunked does not make it so.  In the future you might want to include an actual argument in your post.  As it stands now you're just proving to me and the rest of us that you don't know nearly as much as you think you do.

Um he's right, Gold will only allow you to take off the shield and not continue the damnage onto his health. Been playing on Gold with my Ifiltrator and allowing a Nemisis to live for just a bit after taking out it's sheild then shooting it with my sniper will result in the bit of unseen shield be taken away. Allowing the next shot to kill the Nemisis. This happens to all the enemies on Gold, but to me it was most noticbly on the Nemisis caus they like to run so I'll swich up my target and comeback after draining their sheild.

[Thoragoros]

YKfox wrote...

Honestly, I will take my Widow IV any day over my Mantis X. On a Salarian infiltrator specced right, I can even equip a Carnifex I with my Widow and still be at least up around +4%-ish cooldown. If I use a Predator pistol I remain around +37%-ish.

It's heavy, but you can work around that. As for the single shot limitation... I'm pretty sure the Mantis is single shot too.

With my Mantis I have  4 second cooldown on my cloak.  With a Mantis and a Shuriken SMG I get 4.5-6 cloak cooldown time, last I checked with my Widow, my cooldown time was over 5 seconds.   That's insane given that the Widow's only advantage can be duplicated with AP ammo, as both rifles do equiviliant damage with the right upgrades.

Again, it's about weight-to-effect differential.

[ZweiWing]

My Infiltrator has bonuses to damage and headshot damage and a Mantis (not up to X yet) upgraded with extra rounds and the longer barrel. Anything without shields/barriers is toast, so long as I hit them. With shields/barriers, I can one shot them with a headshot and any other hit will reduce them to one bar of health. I'm guessing that when I get up to Mantis X, even that bar will be gone. And this isn't factoring in damage bonuses from Cloak.

The Widow was my rifle in ME2 and I was excited to see someone else using it in one of my games. But with the sheer force that my Mantis is already giving me, I don't really care if I ever unlock the Widow.

[Hatem]

Mantis X is a good weapon, but for some reason I can't 1 shot nemesis' on gold even with my cloak on. On silver, they die instantly once I hit them in the head but on gold hitting them in the face only takes their shields down. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

[Gnarlesee]

YKfox wrote...

Honestly, I will take my Widow IV any day over my Mantis X. On a Salarian infiltrator specced right, I can even equip a Carnifex I with my Widow and still be at least up around +4%-ish cooldown. If I use a Predator pistol I remain around +37%-ish.

It's heavy, but you can work around that. As for the single shot limitation... I'm pretty sure the Mantis is single shot too.

Yes mantis is single shot. And Widow is single shot. that doesnt mean Widow = Mantis when it comes to being vulnerable. Lesser cloak cooldown is very vital.

Also. If you can remove all protection or kill with 1 shot from mantis. or 1 shot from widow, then its prefferable to have the mantis. Best example is headshotting assault troopers on gold.

[Fenix Hero]

Mantis weighs less, Widow has armor pen ammo on passively pretty Much. When I say that I mean I can shoot anywhere on the guardian shield to kill them I don't have to aim at the peephole, I think you're able to shoot through other thin materials with it also because I've had a couple times where I've moved too much while aiming and actually shot through the edge of a window and got the kill.

[themaxzero]

golyoscsapagy wrote...

Widow is the best choice for a heavy sentinel. You shouldn't care about cooldowns anyway, so weight is a non-issue. RoF on higher levels (I have V or VI) is comparable to mantis. Add to this the superior damage and most importantly that it can pierce cover and enemies. You just have to know your gun, and it becomes much more efficient than mantis.

It's not a main gun, I agree, but it's the best backup weapon currently in game. Dismissing it as a crappy weapon just says you have to learn quite a bit more about the game.

Widow has the same rate of fire as the Mantis from level one. Rate of fire is not affective by weapon level.

It's a terrible backup weapon due to it's weight. Not much point carrying it unless it's your primary weapon.

It looks like it's you who needs to learn a bit more about the game.