122 réponses à ce sujet

[ZzOoRrGg]

I like the widow. Instead of one shot, one kill the mantis gives, the widow is more one shot, five kills. When it comes to guardians, the fact that widow can shoot right through the shield can mean I save 2-3 seconds aiming for the peep hole and/or waiting for the rest of you dumbasses to stop knocking him around so someone can actually kill him. Atluses go down so much quicker; and even though they are easy enough in normal circumstances, more often than not you will get that hack mission in the most retarded location, with two Atluses bearing down on you. All this is true for Silver and Bronze. On gold difficulty, you can't one-hit anything save for the cobra missiles, but at this point, it should be about the team, not just about you, the infiltrator. Either you take out the shields and your friends finish your work, or vice versa. I also much prefer a phalanx to a carnifex. For what it is, the carnifex is too slow on the rate of fire.

TL;DR: The widow's an efficient weapon. Deal with it, nerd.

[Thoragoros]

ZzOoRrGg wrote...

I like the widow. Instead of one shot, one kill the mantis gives, the widow is more one shot, five kills. When it comes to guardians, the fact that widow can shoot right through the shield can mean I save 2-3 seconds aiming for the peep hole and/or waiting for the rest of you dumbasses to stop knocking him around so someone can actually kill him. Atluses go down so much quicker; and even though they are easy enough in normal circumstances, more often than not you will get that hack mission in the most retarded location, with two Atluses bearing down on you. All this is true for Silver and Bronze. On gold difficulty, you can't one-hit anything save for the cobra missiles, but at this point, it should be about the team, not just about you, the infiltrator. Either you take out the shields and your friends finish your work, or vice versa. I also much prefer a phalanx to a carnifex. For what it is, the carnifex is too slow on the rate of fire.

TL;DR: The widow's an efficient weapon. Deal with it, nerd.

NerdRage much, Zorg?

But again, as I said, is passive Armor Piercing really worth the massive hit to your cooldowns?  I just don't think so.

And if you have such trouble hitting the peephole or arm of the Guardian, perhaps Infiltration isn't really the class for you.

Modifié par Thoragoros, 27 février 2012 - 04:01 .

[UK Wildcat]

ROFL some people are just so clueless it's funny. This guy said the carnifex's ROF is too slow. Self-trolling is alive and well. Ask ZzOoRrGg.

[Eric13574]

ZzOoRrGg wrote...

I like the widow. Instead of one shot, one kill the mantis gives, the widow is more one shot, five kills. When it comes to guardians, the fact that widow can shoot right through the shield can mean I save 2-3 seconds aiming for the peep hole and/or waiting for the rest of you dumbasses to stop knocking him around so someone can actually kill him. Atluses go down so much quicker; and even though they are easy enough in normal circumstances, more often than not you will get that hack mission in the most retarded location, with two Atluses bearing down on you. All this is true for Silver and Bronze. On gold difficulty, you can't one-hit anything save for the cobra missiles, but at this point, it should be about the team, not just about you, the infiltrator. Either you take out the shields and your friends finish your work, or vice versa. I also much prefer a phalanx to a carnifex. For what it is, the carnifex is too slow on the rate of fire.

TL;DR: The widow's an efficient weapon. Deal with it, nerd.

2-3 seconds to aim at the hole? No wonder you need that gun.  

5 kills per shot? If you say so, maybe you get 2 kills in one shot once per round.

Carnifax is to slow for you so you use the widow, your intelligence astounds me.

You don't need a widow to kill atlas...biotic combo spam is just as good if not better.

How are you so bad at this game?

[ZzOoRrGg]

It's not that I can't aim through the peephole. It's that everyone else tends to focus the guardians and stagger them, instead of going after other things that would be a million times easier and faster for them to kill. You also don't have to cloak to kill EVERYTHING, an uncloaked body shot will do in troopers, guardians, and unshielded engineers just fine.

[ZzOoRrGg]

UK Wildcat wrote...

ROFL some people are just so clueless it's funny. This guy said the carnifex's ROF is too slow. Self-trolling is alive and well. Ask ZzOoRrGg.

I think I remember carrying you in a game. My shoulders are sore, you could stand to diet a bit.

[Thoragoros]

ZzOoRrGg wrote...

It's not that I can't aim through the peephole. It's that everyone else tends to focus the guardians and stagger them, instead of going after other things that would be a million times easier and faster for them to kill. You also don't have to cloak to kill EVERYTHING, an uncloaked body shot will do in troopers, guardians, and unshielded engineers just fine.

Umm...when the Guardians are staggered, that's 'Headshot. Profit.' time, how is a staggered and therefore exposed Guardian a problem to a supposed sniper?  Heck, if the Guardian is exposed, you don't even need to headshot it, a body shot will take it down.

Maybe you should be playing with an SMG instead.

Modifié par Thoragoros, 27 février 2012 - 04:12 .

[UK Wildcat]

ZzOoRrGg wrote...

UK Wildcat wrote...

ROFL some people are just so clueless it's funny. This guy said the carnifex's ROF is too slow. Self-trolling is alive and well. Ask ZzOoRrGg.

I think I remember carrying you in a game. My shoulders are sore, you could stand to diet a bit.

Yeah that definitely happened, you running around with your special kid helmet, your widow and probably another heavy pointless gun on bronze, pretending to be a good videogame player and an adult, frothing on yourself and asking your mom to bring you more cheesy poofs.

[ZweiWing]

Thoragoros wrote...

ZzOoRrGg wrote...

It's not that I can't aim through the peephole. It's that everyone else tends to focus the guardians and stagger them, instead of going after other things that would be a million times easier and faster for them to kill. You also don't have to cloak to kill EVERYTHING, an uncloaked body shot will do in troopers, guardians, and unshielded engineers just fine.

Umm...when the Guardians are staggered, that's 'Headshot. Profit.' time, how is a staggered and therefore exposed Guardian a problem to a supposed sniper?  Heck, if the Guardian is exposed, you don't even need to headshot it, a body shot will take it down.

Maybe you should be playing with an SMG instead.

I think he's referring to having the shot lined up then firing just as someone staggers the Guardian. It used to make me mad too. Then I'd let my team take pot shots at them and snipe them while my team was reloading.

[Zourin]

Widow
Pros: Armor Penetration, Thin Cover Penetration
Cons: Slow Skill Recharge, Really Slow Reload time

Mantis
Pros: Fast skill recharge/secondary weapon, more ammunition
Cons: Less Effective vs Turrets/Atlas.Slow Reload

The choice depends on your build and play-style. Not everyone has a Salarian in their deck any more than everyone having an Asari Adept. A Widow would be a severe hindrance to a cloak-cryo-shotgun assassin build, while it would be advantageous to a standoff sniper.

The Salarian One-Two punch may work great right now against Cerberus, but I wouldn't give it much against the reaper team.

[ZzOoRrGg]

Thoragoros wrote...

ZzOoRrGg wrote...

It's not that I can't aim through the peephole. It's that everyone else tends to focus the guardians and stagger them, instead of going after other things that would be a million times easier and faster for them to kill. You also don't have to cloak to kill EVERYTHING, an uncloaked body shot will do in troopers, guardians, and unshielded engineers just fine.

Umm...when the Guardians are staggered, that's 'Headshot. Profit.' time, how is a staggered and therefore exposed Guardian a problem to a supposed sniper?  Heck, if the Guardian is exposed, you don't even need to headshot it, a body shot will take it down.

Maybe you should be playing with an SMG instead.

The point I was making is people do this not slightly before I make the shot, but at the exact moment I make the shot. What I am saying is, widow is my rifle of choice when I am playing with randoms, because I can't stray too far from hand-holding distance because you(as in, the general population on ME3) can't stay alive more than five seconds. When I have friends on who are actually competent at what they do, I'll break out another rifle because then, cooldowns are suddenly an issue when I am actually flanking.

TL;DR: I use the widow because I don't think you are doing your job right.

[Shahadem]

And this is why the widow needs a major makeover to either be able to increase damage beyond the cap, have lower weight, less reload time, 2 shots before reload or something.

The widow should be bar none the absolute best sniper rifle but right now it isn't because Bioware really screwed up the gold weapons by giving them a huge weight but not a huge benefit.

Modifié par Shahadem, 27 février 2012 - 04:58 .

[Sabbatine]

 

Thoragoros wrote...
Now, if you tech an Infiltrator, you get significant damage bonuses to your sniper rifle, meaning that on Silver, with your cloak active you can 1 shot headshot a centurian and nemisis.
So really, unless you just simply cannot aim for the slot or arm of the Guardian, or absolutely must have the armor piercing, I just don't see the need to nearly double your recharge penalty.

First off, if you have an infiltrator equipped with the widow and specced properly, phantoms die in one shot too.

Secondly, the widow's piercing ability is good for a range of reasons, not just for killing guardians.  It's true it does pierce the guardian's shield.  It also pierces thin cover and partially pierces thicker cover if you can get it at an angle.  It also pierces enemies allowing for double or even triple kills from a single bullet... but hands down, the most useful thing piercing allows the widow to do is pierce your team mates.

When I fired a round with my widow and it went through one of my team mates, a guardian's shield, his head, a second guardian's shield, and his head the true power of piercing dawned on me and the increased weight was suddenly very easy to justify.  I don't usually play with organized teams... any organized team can beat silver or gold mode without too much trouble, I prefer the randomness of public games.  If I did run with organized teams I would probably use the viper but that's neither here nor there.

Nubletcakii wrote...
obviously because a shotgun fires more then one bullet. If you actually played gold you'll know that ONE bullet cannot ever break through a shield and hp at the same time. SInce claymore is multiple bullets it does'nt affect them. Honestly if you actually jsut played gold by yourself and tested it out you would see that you can't break any shields with a single bullet.

That is a juvenile understanding of ME3's game mechanics.  When you fire a shotgun a set number of projectiles are fired in a spread.  All of the projectiles strike their target simultaniously at which point the game generates a number for total damage done based on the number of projectiles that struck the target.

If the game applied damage for each projectile in a linear way on a timeline then shotguns would be incapable of causing the exploding head animation because the target would die the moment it ran out of hp (the head explosion seems to be connected with overkill damage) and it is not possible to cause a dead body's head to explode.

CheetahZ1 wrote...
Actually he might be right there. Since the shotgun fires more than 1 shot simaltaneously, the pellets drain the shield, and the remaining ones hit health, causing a 1 shot.
And the mechanic he's talking about is legitamate. I'll go ahead and say for myself that I've seen it many times.

The mechanic he is talking about isn't legitimate because it isn't a mechanic.  What we have observed in game is an effect.  We know that nearly always shields will absorb the full damage of the shot that depletes it preventing any damage to the enemies life or armor bar.

We do not know what the cause of this effect is.  On initial observation it appears to be a simple mechanic however because there are two exceptions to the rule (the Claymore and missile launcher) we know for certain that there are exceptions to the rule... or even that the cause of the effect isn't what we initially thought at all.

The other problem this theory has is that folks are assuming that the gold difficulty has a different set of rules that govern the interaction between shields/barriers and projectiles striking them when that may not be thecase.

Atlas mechs on bronze difficulty have a layer of shields and a layer of armor.  If you strike an Atlas with nearly depleted shields with a shot from a widow very often the shot will only consume what shields remain.  This also occurs on silver difficulty but is considerably more difficult to notice.  The Widow with a cockpit shot will destroy just over half of the Atlas mechs shields.  A second shot to the cockpit destroys the shields but never damages the armor.  Gold makes this effect easier to see but it exists on all three difficulties.

I think the evidence makes it obvious that the amount of damage being done is the key factor rather than what type of defense it is hitting.  I believe when you strike a target the game calculates how much damage the shot is doing and compares it to the enemies remaining hitpoints.

If the shot is powerful enough to completely deplete the targets remaining shields *and* the targets lifebar the target does not gain the added protection of the shield absorbing the full damage of the shot that depleted it and is killed instantly.  If the shot that hits the target is not powerful enough to deplete both shields and lifebar then the target gains the added protection of the shield eating all the damage that would have hit the lifebar.

I believe this fits in with the evidence we have in that the two most damaging guns (claymore and rocket launcher) available in the demo are still consistently one shotting enemies in gold mode.

Modifié par Sabbatine, 27 février 2012 - 05:31 .

[CitizenSnips]

It is perfectly acceptable to use the Mantis X over the Widow I if it suits your playstyle (even on Gold.) I prefer the Widow I but I switch them out all the time.

[CitizenSnips]

Shahadem wrote...

And this is why the widow needs a major makeover to either be able to increase damage beyond the cap, have lower weight, less reload time, 2 shots before reload or something.

The widow should be bar none the absolute best sniper rifle but right now it isn't because Bioware really screwed up the gold weapons by giving them a huge weight but not a huge benefit.

The Widow X will probably completely outclass the Mantis X.

[FlyingWalrus]

Sabbatine wrote...

I think the evidence makes it obvious that the amount of damage being done is the key factor rather than what type of defense it is hitting.  I believe when you strike a target the game calculates how much damage the shot is doing and compares it to the enemies remaining hitpoints.

If the shot is powerful enough to completely deplete the targets remaining shields *and* the targets lifebar the target does not gain the added protection of the shield absorbing the full damage of the shot that depleted it and is killed instantly.  If the shot that hits the target is not powerful enough to deplete both shields and lifebar then the target gains the added protection of the shield eating all the damage that would have hit the lifebar.

I believe this fits in with the evidence we have in that the two most damaging guns (claymore and rocket launcher) available in the demo are still consistently one shotting enemies in gold mode.

You posit an interesting observation but I have to say that sometimes enemies who lose their shields and most of their health somehow manage to survive. More than once I have seethed at a Nemesis whom I had fed a load of Claymore shot into running away in an erratic pattern as I reload. Thus it had lost all of its shield and most of its health, so the shield does not necessarily absorb all the damage. There is some bleed—significant, even. Whether this is because it was the Claymore or an illusion of lag, I do not know.

[Kai Hohiro]

Sabbatine wrote...
If the shot is powerful enough to completely deplete the targets remaining shields *and* the targets lifebar the target does not gain the added protection of the shield absorbing the full damage of the shot that depleted it and is killed instantly.  If the shot that hits the target is not powerful enough to deplete both shields and lifebar then the target gains the added protection of the shield eating all the damage that would have hit the lifebar.

I believe this fits in with the evidence we have in that the two most damaging guns (claymore and rocket launcher) available in the demo are still consistently one shotting enemies in gold mode.

Actually the way it works is that the rocket launcher just one shots anything and the claymore fires not one, but multiple projectiles which allows it to eat through the shields and still damage health unlike sniper rifles.
A widow will not even kill a Nemesis if a sliver of shield remains, eventhough a Nemesis has next to no health, that's simple fact.

Anyways the real reason Widow is a great weapon is that it can shoot through cover. Since the mods that allow other weapons to do this aren't available in the demo that is its biggest advantage in gold.
I think that alone is worth the cooldown penalty over the Mantis, because if you know there is a phantom lurking around the wall you CAN shoot it without exposing yourself to crazy ninja violence.

Modifié par Kai Hohiro, 27 février 2012 - 07:26 .

[KreeCapt]

I prefer my Tricked out Mantis over the Widow. Dunno, just works best for me.

[DCko]

UK Wildcat wrote...

I'm going to be honest as I have 1000 times and explain why the Widow isn't a super-gun like [some] clueless people are believing it to be.

On bronze or silver, you can probably 1 shot enemies with a widow assuming you have enough +headshot +sniper damage or +damage. This includes centurions, guardians, phantoms and nemeses.

On gold, you 100% cannot 1 shot any of the enemies I listed above with a widow. Why? +Damage is capped or restricted with guns to only allow bullet damage to deplete shield damage before inflicting health damage. In other words, it requires at least 2 shots, or 1 power +1 shot to kill one of the above enemies on Gold.

^ With that said, it takes 2 widow shots to kill a phantom, nemesis, centurion or combat engineer on gold.

With all of that out of the way, the Widow is a very inefficient gun for gold, unless you are specced for atlas killing (which really isn't that smart since atlases will probably be the least of your worries on gold), or you have a team system using telepathy where one teammate headshots a mob, then you immediately headshot in your make-believe 2 widow tandem.

The people claiming widow is better than the other snipers on Gold don't understand the shield mechanic or are being dishonest, or really are just not very smart.

I'd have to suggest people take any other sniper rifle over widow on Gold generally due to their rates of fire (assuming you can do enough damage and don't have a widow x). Once people get widow x's and other x guns and can balance weight penalties, widow may be a consideration, but for now, it's not the top choice, and it's not even close.

On a side note, the only gun that can 1 shot kill on gold to the best of my knowledge from the demo guns is the Claymore.

Um... I have no problem one shotting enemies with my widow infiltrator. Just as long as their shields are down. But I have a solution for that on Gold. If you Cloak + Energy Drain + Snipe in quick succession, then all cerberus enemies except the phantom can be one shotted on gold.

I have a widow 3 when I started using it and had no problems killing doing cloak + energy drain + snipe. Now I have a Widow 6 and obviously I can still one shot centurians, nemesis, engineers, and turrets on sight doing that trick (note: after shields on combat engineer is down, if you shoot em in the chest, it'll blow up their backpack as well)

But on Gold, the widow is ONLY difficult for phantoms. Even so I have no problems taking on a phantom by myself on gold. One energy drain does not completly deplete phantom shields.  The widow does not do great damage to barriers or shields. So when I cloak +energy drain + snipe, I get rid of just the barrier on phantoms (not even touching it's health). But what's wrong with that? That gives the opportunity for my teammates to drell pull, krogan carnage knockdown, etc etc.

So yes, I do agree that it takes at least 1 power + 2 shots on a phantom. BUT, 2 shots on centurians, nemesis, centurian, and turrets? You aren't doing what I am doing to get rid of those enemies efficiently in one shot and that is to cloak + drain + snipe in quick succession.

But for you to say the widow is absolutely not efficient... come again? I get like 70k points using my widow infil in a gold match. I see a target on gold, then it's dead doing cloak + drain + snipe (if it's not a phantom)

But you make it seem like widow infil is useless. You just aren't using it right. If you need a vid, i'll be happy to post one proving the efficiency of the widow on an infiltrator on centurians, turrets, engineers, and nemesis on gold. But for now take my word, widow infil can take on any enemy on sight and kill on sight, except for phantoms. That is all. Even so it just takes an extra step for those pesky phantoms.

(also note my salarian infil is a max damage build. I don't have the evolution where you can use a power while cloaked. Without that, this method still works)

Modifié par DCko, 27 février 2012 - 05:22 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

I still have +46% CD for my Sal Infi with a widow II, this is more than enough for me to Cloak, Energy Drain, Snipe, repeat.

[DCko]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

I still have +46% CD for my Sal Infi with a widow II, this is more than enough for me to Cloak, Energy Drain, Snipe, repeat.

YES, exactly. By the time widow is done reloading... repeat. Cloak + Drain + Snipe. You'll be able to take down centurians, engineers, nemesis, and turrets on sight, in 1 second.

And you'll get the most points too on Gold because you'll be doing mad damage on an atlas. On gold, if we have at least one widow person on the team, we basically save all our rocket launchers for round 10 and 11. Even surpassing scores of a stasis bubble adept 0_0

Modifié par DCko, 27 février 2012 - 05:21 .

[CitizenSnips]

I agree with both DCko and Cloaking.
Cloak + Widow will kill Assault troopers and Gaurdians (or two) in one shot.
Cloak + Drain Energy + Widow will kill the Nemesis, Centurion, or Engineer in under a second.
That leaves only the Phantom and Atlas and really the Phantom requires one more step than the Nemesis: Two Energy Drains + Widow or one Energy Drain + 2 Widows.

I know I'm just repeating what's already been said but the bottom line is that to say that the Widow is useless is just wrong.

Modifié par mushoops86anjyl, 27 février 2012 - 04:45 .

[DCko]

UK Wildcat wrote...

Sabbatine, you are posting nonsense, I won't waste time addressing the same crap that's been debunked over and over.

You aren't one-shotting anything on gold with a widow except for assault troopers and guardians.

Take note on this gold widow salarian infil video @ 7:58 - 8:12 vs a Phantom
www.youtube.com/watch

This is what he did vs Phantom
1.) Energy Drain (barrier still not down)
2.) Snipe (ok barrier is finally down)
3.) Cloak + Snipe (ok finally kill the phantom)

This is what i do instead vs Phantom
1.) Cloak + Energy Drain + Snipe in quick succession (then all barriers are down)
2.) Cloak + Snipe (kill: headshot or bodyshot will suffice)

Doing the above, you avoid 3 steps in killing a phantom with a widow.

What to do vs Centurians, Nemesis, Engineers, and Turrets

1.) Cloak + Energy Drain + Widow Snipe (kill: headshot or bodyshot will suffice)

What to do vs Assault troopers and Gaurdians

1.) Cloak + Snipe (kill: headshot or bodyshot will suffice)

Modifié par DCko, 27 février 2012 - 06:03 .

[FearTheLiving]

DCko wrote...
Um... I have no problem one shotting enemies with my widow infiltrator. Just as long as their shields are down. But I have a solution for that on Gold. If you Cloak + Energy Drain + Snipe in quick succession, then all cerberus enemies except the phantom can be one shotted on gold.

Problem is you can do the exact same thing with the Mantis, which is lighter allowing you to Cloak + Energy Drain + Sniper more. And allow you a have a small gun if you want. Personally I don't I just stick with my Mantis, but even if you were to get a Pistol or Smg along with it the cool down would be less then just the Widow. Making the Widow only good if you want to snipe through thin armor, which if your a good sniper you really shouldn't need to do.

Modifié par FearTheLiving, 27 février 2012 - 08:18 .

[CitizenSnips]

FearTheLiving wrote...

DCko wrote...
Um... I have no problem one shotting enemies with my widow infiltrator. Just as long as their shields are down. But I have a solution for that on Gold. If you Cloak + Energy Drain + Snipe in quick succession, then all cerberus enemies except the phantom can be one shotted on gold.

Problem is you can do the exact same thing with the Mantis, which is lighter allowing you to Cloak + Energy Drain + Sniper more. And allow you a have a small gun if you want. Personally I don't I just stick with my Mantis, but even if you were to get a Pistol or Smg along with it the cool down would be less then just the Widow. Making the Widow only good if you want to snipe through thin armor, which if your a good sniper you really shouldn't need to do.

An Salarian Infiltrator's power cooldown really only needs to match the cooldown of cloak to the cooldown of the reload animation. Anything faster suffers from a high level of dimishing returns.

EDIT: To clarify, the reload time for the Mantis matches the reload time of the Widow to the best of my knowledge. Please feel free to correct if I am mistaken.

Also, we are currently comparing very high ranking Mantises, here Mantis X, to very low level Widows, here Widow I. High level Widows will erase a lot of the advantages the Mantis X has while also building on it's own advantages.
 

Modifié par mushoops86anjyl, 27 février 2012 - 08:31 .