122 réponses à ce sujet

[UK Wildcat]

DCko wrote...

UK Wildcat wrote...

Sabbatine, you are posting nonsense, I won't waste time addressing the same crap that's been debunked over and over.

You aren't one-shotting anything on gold with a widow except for assault troopers and guardians.

Take note on this gold widow salarian infil video @ 7:58 - 8:12 vs a Phantom
www.youtube.com/watch

This is what he did vs Phantom
1.) Energy Drain (barrier still not down)
2.) Snipe (ok barrier is finally down)
3.) Cloak + Snipe (ok finally kill the phantom)

This is what i do instead vs Phantom
1.) Cloak + Energy Drain + Snipe in quick succession (then all barriers are down)
2.) Cloak + Snipe (kill: headshot or bodyshot will suffice)

Doing the above, you avoid 3 steps in killing a phantom with a widow.

What to do vs Centurians, Nemesis, Engineers, and Turrets

1.) Cloak + Energy Drain + Widow Snipe (kill: headshot or bodyshot will suffice)

What to do vs Assault troopers and Gaurdians

1.) Cloak + Snipe (kill: headshot or bodyshot will suffice)

You can do what you just wrote with any other sniper weapon OR a carnifex AND have better cooldown management AND not have to worry about dying between reloading the super slow widow.  Your argument itself boils down to the widow being equivalent to other guns, and if it's equivalent then logically you should go with the more rapid cooldowns.

The only reason to use a widow is if you value:
1) Shooting through walls
2) Killing guardians by armor piercing bodyshots
3) Doing good individual atlas armor damage

[FearTheLiving]

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

FearTheLiving wrote...

DCko wrote...
Um... I have no problem one shotting enemies with my widow infiltrator. Just as long as their shields are down. But I have a solution for that on Gold. If you Cloak + Energy Drain + Snipe in quick succession, then all cerberus enemies except the phantom can be one shotted on gold.

Problem is you can do the exact same thing with the Mantis, which is lighter allowing you to Cloak + Energy Drain + Sniper more. And allow you a have a small gun if you want. Personally I don't I just stick with my Mantis, but even if you were to get a Pistol or Smg along with it the cool down would be less then just the Widow. Making the Widow only good if you want to snipe through thin armor, which if your a good sniper you really shouldn't need to do.

An Salarian Infiltrator's power cooldown really only needs to match the cooldown of cloak to the cooldown of the reload animation. Anything faster suffers from a high level of dimishing returns.

Not if your in trouble if your in the middle of reloading and an enemy or enemies rush you cloak makes a great getaway if that's still on cooldown you could get killed. Maybe that's just me though cause I'll litterally stay there until a lot of enemies are right next to me so that I can run across the map and continue to snipe the backside of their heads.

Personally I agree with UK and unless they allow us to get the full damage out of the Widow it isn't really a good pick for me. If others feel different fine I'm not going to stop you if you like using the Widow, but I'll stick with my Mantis.

[CitizenSnips]

FearTheLiving wrote...

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

FearTheLiving wrote...

DCko wrote...
Um... I have no problem one shotting enemies with my widow infiltrator. Just as long as their shields are down. But I have a solution for that on Gold. If you Cloak + Energy Drain + Snipe in quick succession, then all cerberus enemies except the phantom can be one shotted on gold.

Problem is you can do the exact same thing with the Mantis, which is lighter allowing you to Cloak + Energy Drain + Sniper more. And allow you a have a small gun if you want. Personally I don't I just stick with my Mantis, but even if you were to get a Pistol or Smg along with it the cool down would be less then just the Widow. Making the Widow only good if you want to snipe through thin armor, which if your a good sniper you really shouldn't need to do.

An Salarian Infiltrator's power cooldown really only needs to match the cooldown of cloak to the cooldown of the reload animation. Anything faster suffers from a high level of dimishing returns.

Not if your in trouble if your in the middle of reloading and an enemy or enemies rush you cloak makes a great getaway if that's still on cooldown you could get killed. Maybe that's just me though cause I'll litterally stay there until a lot of enemies are right next to me so that I can run across the map and continue to snipe the backside of their heads.

Personally I agree with UK and unless they allow us to get the full damage out of the Widow it isn't really a good pick for me. If others feel different fine I'm not going to stop you if you like using the Widow, but I'll stick with my Mantis.

Good point, but it also serves to reinforce choosing a weapon that suits your personal playstyle. You prefer to let them get close, use a fast cloak and get out. I tend to keep them at a respectable sistance at all times and honestly, I rarely, if ever, need a cloak .5 seconds faster than I have it at the moment. I also like to shoot through shields and light cover. I get a alot of shots I might otherwise not have. I've used both and I tend to prefer the Widow but I can see how others might prefer the Mantis. My point is that each weapon has advantages and disadvantages and it's a valid strategy to use either depending on how one plays.

Modifié par mushoops86anjyl, 27 février 2012 - 08:55 .

[UK Wildcat]

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

FearTheLiving wrote...

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

FearTheLiving wrote...

DCko wrote...
Um... I have no problem one shotting enemies with my widow infiltrator. Just as long as their shields are down. But I have a solution for that on Gold. If you Cloak + Energy Drain + Snipe in quick succession, then all cerberus enemies except the phantom can be one shotted on gold.

Problem is you can do the exact same thing with the Mantis, which is lighter allowing you to Cloak + Energy Drain + Sniper more. And allow you a have a small gun if you want. Personally I don't I just stick with my Mantis, but even if you were to get a Pistol or Smg along with it the cool down would be less then just the Widow. Making the Widow only good if you want to snipe through thin armor, which if your a good sniper you really shouldn't need to do.

An Salarian Infiltrator's power cooldown really only needs to match the cooldown of cloak to the cooldown of the reload animation. Anything faster suffers from a high level of dimishing returns.

Not if your in trouble if your in the middle of reloading and an enemy or enemies rush you cloak makes a great getaway if that's still on cooldown you could get killed. Maybe that's just me though cause I'll litterally stay there until a lot of enemies are right next to me so that I can run across the map and continue to snipe the backside of their heads.

Personally I agree with UK and unless they allow us to get the full damage out of the Widow it isn't really a good pick for me. If others feel different fine I'm not going to stop you if you like using the Widow, but I'll stick with my Mantis.

Good point, but it also serves to reinforce choosing a weapon that suits your personal playstyle. You prefer to let them get close, use a fast cloak and get out. I tend to keep them at a respectable sistance at all times and honestly, I rarely, if ever, need a cloak .5 seconds faster than I have it at the moment. I also like to shoot through shields and light cover. I get a alot of shots I might otherwise not have. I've used both and I tend to prefer the Widow.

I personally have no beef with anyone wanting to enjoy their own playstyle.  The reason these debates happen, and sometimes devolve into flaming and arguments   , is that people confuse enjoying a playstyle with their playstyle being the best way to do something - but then lack actual valid reasons for such claims.

If I were to make the claim that the hornet is the best overall gun in the game, that the Asari Adept is useless because I enjoy playing a human, or that Infiltrators suck because Soldiers are cool and have adrenaline rush, I would really hope people respond to that kind of stuff and run me off the forums

[CitizenSnips]

UK Wildcat wrote...

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

FearTheLiving wrote...

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

FearTheLiving wrote...

DCko wrote...
Um... I have no problem one shotting enemies with my widow infiltrator. Just as long as their shields are down. But I have a solution for that on Gold. If you Cloak + Energy Drain + Snipe in quick succession, then all cerberus enemies except the phantom can be one shotted on gold.

Problem is you can do the exact same thing with the Mantis, which is lighter allowing you to Cloak + Energy Drain + Sniper more. And allow you a have a small gun if you want. Personally I don't I just stick with my Mantis, but even if you were to get a Pistol or Smg along with it the cool down would be less then just the Widow. Making the Widow only good if you want to snipe through thin armor, which if your a good sniper you really shouldn't need to do.

An Salarian Infiltrator's power cooldown really only needs to match the cooldown of cloak to the cooldown of the reload animation. Anything faster suffers from a high level of dimishing returns.

Not if your in trouble if your in the middle of reloading and an enemy or enemies rush you cloak makes a great getaway if that's still on cooldown you could get killed. Maybe that's just me though cause I'll litterally stay there until a lot of enemies are right next to me so that I can run across the map and continue to snipe the backside of their heads.

Personally I agree with UK and unless they allow us to get the full damage out of the Widow it isn't really a good pick for me. If others feel different fine I'm not going to stop you if you like using the Widow, but I'll stick with my Mantis.

Good point, but it also serves to reinforce choosing a weapon that suits your personal playstyle. You prefer to let them get close, use a fast cloak and get out. I tend to keep them at a respectable sistance at all times and honestly, I rarely, if ever, need a cloak .5 seconds faster than I have it at the moment. I also like to shoot through shields and light cover. I get a alot of shots I might otherwise not have. I've used both and I tend to prefer the Widow.

I personally have no beef with anyone wanting to enjoy their own playstyle.  The reason these debates happen, and sometimes devolve into flaming and arguments   , is that people confuse enjoying a playstyle with their playstyle being the best way to do something - but then lack actual valid reasons for such claims.

If I were to make the claim that the hornet is the best overall gun in the game, that the Asari Adept is useless because I enjoy playing a human, or that Infiltrators suck because Soldiers are cool and have adrenaline rush, I would really hope people respond to that kind of stuff and run me off the forums

There is no "best" weapon in this argument, only two good choices that suit different (and slightly different at that) playstyles. 

[UK Wildcat]

mushoops86anjyl wrote...
There is no "best" weapon in this argument, only two good choices that suit different (and slightly different at that) playstyles. 

A way to track which guns are the 'best' would be to measure players across all games using certain weapons, the time it takes them to complete each difficulty, the %chance of success they have on each difficulty with each gun, the amount of deaths they incur with each gun, the amount of equipment used in conjunction with each gun, the %chance as player has of winning a game based on class/weight.

There are a variety of variables bioware has or should have access to that would be ways of deducing which guns are most effective; thus which guns are best.

There are obviously 'best' guns in Multiplayer.  Arguing otherwise is an attempt to make this conversation devolve into playstyle only arguments, which simply don't make sense. 

Modifié par UK Wildcat, 27 février 2012 - 09:03 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

Ok so to my knowledge each Widow upgrade nets a 6% cooldown reduction.

My Sal Infi, Widow level 2, has 46% reduction.

add 48% to that at a level 10 Widow and we have what 94%.

That's pretty good, will do significantly more damage and will allow use of a SMG or Pistol if needed.

Modifié par Cloaking_Thane, 27 février 2012 - 09:06 .

[CitizenSnips]

UK Wildcat wrote...

mushoops86anjyl wrote...
There is no "best" weapon in this argument, only two good choices that suit different (and slightly different at that) playstyles. 

A way to track which guns are the 'best' would be to measure players across all games using certain weapons, the time it takes them to complete each difficulty, the %chance of success they have on each difficulty with each gun, the amount of deaths they incur with each gun, the amount of equipment used in conjunction with each gun, the %chance as player has of winning a game based on class/weight.

There are a variety of variables bioware has or should have access to that would be ways of deducing which guns are most effective; thus which guns are best.

There are obviously 'best' guns in Multiplayer.  Arguing otherwise is an attempt to make this conversation devolve into playstyle only arguments, which simply don't make sense. 

So you are saying the only "true" way to measure which weapon is best is to measure a whole host of data, dessiminate it, and extrapolate a conclusion from that data. Data which you do not possess, yet you have still made a judgement on how the Widow is inferior to the Mantis.

This, on top of the fact that this IS a playstyle argument. Even if gun A is better for 99% of people, and gun B is better for only 1%, gun A is still not the universally superior gun. Better for most, sure, but not universally better. For that 1% gun B will still be better because they perform at a higher level with it. 

[UK Wildcat]

mushoops86anjyl wrote...
So you are saying the only "true" way to measure which weapon is best is to measure a whole host of data, dessiminate it, and extrapolate a conclusion from that data. Data which you do not possess, yet you have still made a judgement on how the Widow is inferior to the Mantis.

This, on top of the fact that this IS a playstyle argument. Even if gun A is better for 99% of people, and gun B is better for only 1%, gun A is still not the universally superior gun. Better for most, sure, but not universally better. For that 1% gun B will still be better because they perform at a higher level with it. 

Nope, I'm not saying that at all.  If you will recall, you are the one saying there is no 'best' gun.  I am saying that I can think of one method off the top of my head that uses statistics to disprove that claim, even though it should be obvious that some guns are more effective than others; thus there are better and best options. 

It sounds like you are quibbling with what 'best' means and creating some strawman argument to something I didn't claim.  I provided you with one example of a way to determine better/best.

[CitizenSnips]

UK Wildcat wrote...

mushoops86anjyl wrote...
So you are saying the only "true" way to measure which weapon is best is to measure a whole host of data, dessiminate it, and extrapolate a conclusion from that data. Data which you do not possess, yet you have still made a judgement on how the Widow is inferior to the Mantis.

This, on top of the fact that this IS a playstyle argument. Even if gun A is better for 99% of people, and gun B is better for only 1%, gun A is still not the universally superior gun. Better for most, sure, but not universally better. For that 1% gun B will still be better because they perform at a higher level with it. 

Nope, I'm not saying that at all.  If you will recall, you are the one saying there is no 'best' gun.  I am saying that I can think of one method off the top of my head that uses statistics to disprove that claim, even though it should be obvious that some guns are more effective than others; thus there are better and best options. 

It sounds like you are quibbling with what 'best' means and creating some strawman argument to something I didn't claim.  I provided you with one example of a way to determine better/best.

Even those statistics would not prove any one gun to be universally better than another for every player, only what is better on average. Do you know how statistics work?

Depsite what you seem to believe, this is a subjective issue. It is about playstyle and preference. Your claims to the contrary do not change that.

[CitizenSnips]

Modifié par mushoops86anjyl, 27 février 2012 - 09:33 .

[DCko]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Ok so to my knowledge each Widow upgrade nets a 6% cooldown reduction.

My Sal Infi, Widow level 2, has 46% reduction.

add 48% to that at a level 10 Widow and we have what 94%.

That's pretty good, will do significantly more damage and will allow use of a SMG or Pistol if needed.

I will let you know what my cooldown % is once I get home from work on my widow 6.

But Widow 6 vs Mantis 10... Widow 6 damage stats is maxed out with the barrel. I believe when it gets to Widow 10, the damage will go beyond what the stats even says w/ barrel equipped. 0_0

[CROAT_56]

I have a mantis X love it just got the level 5 barrel but haven't had a chance to use it

[UK Wildcat]

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

UK Wildcat wrote...

mushoops86anjyl wrote...
So you are saying the only "true" way to measure which weapon is best is to measure a whole host of data, dessiminate it, and extrapolate a conclusion from that data. Data which you do not possess, yet you have still made a judgement on how the Widow is inferior to the Mantis.

This, on top of the fact that this IS a playstyle argument. Even if gun A is better for 99% of people, and gun B is better for only 1%, gun A is still not the universally superior gun. Better for most, sure, but not universally better. For that 1% gun B will still be better because they perform at a higher level with it. 

Nope, I'm not saying that at all.  If you will recall, you are the one saying there is no 'best' gun.  I am saying that I can think of one method off the top of my head that uses statistics to disprove that claim, even though it should be obvious that some guns are more effective than others; thus there are better and best options. 

It sounds like you are quibbling with what 'best' means and creating some strawman argument to something I didn't claim.  I provided you with one example of a way to determine better/best.

Even those statistics would not prove any one gun to be universally better than another for every player, only what is better on average. Do you know how statistics work?

Depsite what you seem to believe, this is a subjective issue. It is about playstyle and preference. Your claims to the contrary do not change that.

Quibble all day, it's amusing.  Why are you so invested in the widow being better?  Do you make love to it?

[CitizenSnips]

UK Wildcat wrote...

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

UK Wildcat wrote...

mushoops86anjyl wrote...
So you are saying the only "true" way to measure which weapon is best is to measure a whole host of data, dessiminate it, and extrapolate a conclusion from that data. Data which you do not possess, yet you have still made a judgement on how the Widow is inferior to the Mantis.

This, on top of the fact that this IS a playstyle argument. Even if gun A is better for 99% of people, and gun B is better for only 1%, gun A is still not the universally superior gun. Better for most, sure, but not universally better. For that 1% gun B will still be better because they perform at a higher level with it. 

Nope, I'm not saying that at all.  If you will recall, you are the one saying there is no 'best' gun.  I am saying that I can think of one method off the top of my head that uses statistics to disprove that claim, even though it should be obvious that some guns are more effective than others; thus there are better and best options. 

It sounds like you are quibbling with what 'best' means and creating some strawman argument to something I didn't claim.  I provided you with one example of a way to determine better/best.

Even those statistics would not prove any one gun to be universally better than another for every player, only what is better on average. Do you know how statistics work?

Depsite what you seem to believe, this is a subjective issue. It is about playstyle and preference. Your claims to the contrary do not change that.

Quibble all day, it's amusing.  Why are you so invested in the widow being better?  Do you make love to it?

My entire point is that it is better for me but I could see how the Mantis or Viper is better for others depending on playstyle and that no one can definitively or universally claim one gun as better than the other.

Modifié par mushoops86anjyl, 27 février 2012 - 09:47 .

[GroverA 125]

You're thinking of the two weapons as the same type, OP, which is why it seems so ineffective to you. the Widow is in a completely different weapon class altogether to the Mantis. The Mantis is an Anti-Infantry bolt action rifle, while the Widow is an Anti-Materiel bolt action rifle. You'd do well to know the difference.

Yes, you can use the widow as an Anti-Infantry weapon, but that isn't its primary purpose. It's built for destroying all the things in the world that little inferior bullets cannot destroy. It has far greater range capabilities on Guardians, as the target is not required to be "mail-boxed", you instead just need to aim for the head and ignore that little visor. Also, the Widow has a far greater damage multiplier for armor, meaning that eliminating atlas mechs and turrets (in the demo of course, in the full game, its purposes will be far broader) is its speciality. when you know what and where to apply it (generally the forehead of high-armor targets) then you should understand that the sheer penetration capabilities makes up plenty for the extra weight. Might I also add that you are also comparing a level X weapon to a level II weapon, and thus, your argument holds little strength.

TL;DR: the widow is better at anti-armor, and you're not comparing the two weapons properly.

[ncknck]

Disagree with some people here. It boils down to

Widow vs Carnifex
Widow vs Mantis

First the Carnifex. It is a great overall weapon. And can get results similar to Widow, this is true. However, the very small detail i see here is very handily omitted is that you need to headshot/guardian-slit with a Carnifax, several times. Widow oneshots everything(unshielded) with bodyshots. Do you realize its literally ten times easier to hit with a Widow than with the Carnifax? While its easy to pull off headies in a regular environment, in an actual heated combat situation, say wave11 on city map, moving guardians on slopes from all sides and atlases shooting, no way your going to headshot everyone, simply no time to aim. So dont tell tales of headshotting sprees. Now, ok, some people are just that good, cant exclude that possibility, but if all your shots under any condition are headshots, the Phalanx X has better DPS than the Carnifex X. 36k>35k damage. And realistically your not going to have the Carnifax X. So Phalanx is twice as good. If all the shots are headshots.  Can slitkill respawnable guardians on the ice map from top ramp long distance. What more range do you want. And in avg/close range Phalanx freaking rapes. Thus you either use the Widow(normal people) or Phalanx(aiming pros).

Next Mantis vs Widow. This one is easy for the same reasons as above. Guardians are a pain, and M. cant dispose of them easy enough.


Widow's area damage/cover shooting, nice bonus, but ultimately irrelevant.


Widow is the best long range gun in the demo, although i wouldnt use a sniper rifle on anyone but infiltrators. ... Carnifax or Phalanx, up to you, not really much difference in real environment. 

[Sabbatine]

   

Eric13574 wrote...

5 kills per shot? If you say so, maybe you get 2 kills in one shot once per round.

Don't project your utter lack of imagination and efficiency onto others.  I routinely get double or triple kills on a per wave basis because I am fully aware of the strengths and weaknesses of my chosen weapon and look for opportunities to make it more efficient, especially when gunning down enemies unworthy of the projectile I'm about to hit them with.  It is not a difficult thing to do, but it is not something you watch for if all you ever use is the mantis or viper so I can understand why the thought of being able to pull off a double kill once per wave blows your mind. 

Kai Hohiro wrote...

Actually the way it works is that the rocket launcher just one shots anything and the claymore fires not one, but multiple projectiles which allows it to eat through the shields and still damage health unlike sniper rifles.
A widow will not even kill a Nemesis if a sliver of shield remains, eventhough a Nemesis has next to no health, that's simple fact.

Anyways the real reason Widow is a great weapon is that it can shoot through cover. Since the mods that allow other weapons to do this aren't available in the demo that is its biggest advantage in gold.
I think that alone is worth the cooldown penalty over the Mantis, because if you know there is a phantom lurking around the wall you CAN shoot it without exposing yourself to crazy ninja violence.

Uhhhhhhhhhhh  no.  The rocket launcher isn't flagged with the special ability to one shot anything, it is set to do a set amount of damage to anything within a set radius.  Actually we know that it does about the same amount of raw damage a fully upgraded claymore would do but the heavy weapon gains additional bonuses against targets to justify its extremely limited ammo.

As for your comment on the claymore, those projectiles do not have their damage calculated individually, the number of hits is determined and damage is delivered in a lump sum.  If damage were calculated in a linear way per shotgun projectile a shotgun would never be able to cause a head to explode, and any projectiles that are calculated to have struck the body after lethal damage has been done would pass through the body (because a corpse does not block projectiles) and hit another enemy or the environment.  We know this does not happen.

Additionally, if shotgun damage were calculated in a unique way then all shotguns would be able to break the shield barrier and do hp damage, not just the claymore.


As for shooting the phantom without exposing yourself to crazy ninja violence, that is already possible by using tactical cloak.  The widow penetration is nice, but I don't know why people try to downplay the fact that it does almost 30% more damage per shot than the mantis in addition to the penetration.

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

EDIT: To clarify, the reload time for the Mantis matches the reload time of the Widow to the best of my knowledge. Please feel free to correct if I am mistaken.

You are correct.  The recharge on tactical cloak is slightly slower than the reload animation of the widow however this is unlikely to be a factor as by time you get your scope on a target it will almost certainly be up.

FearTheLiving wrote...

Not if your in trouble if your in the middle of reloading and an enemy or enemies rush you cloak makes a great getaway if that's still on cooldown you could get killed. Maybe that's just me though cause I'll litterally stay there until a lot of enemies are right next to me so that I can run across the map and continue to snipe the backside of their heads.

This is a pretty rare scenario.  Enemies will almost never rush you in cover because if they get too close you can instant kill them with a melee grab.  If you are hiding around a corner then you almost certainly have enough space to back off and more cover you can take further back.  If you play smart the only time you'll ever need tactical cloak for anything other than boosting weapon damage is for completing objectives and reviving team mates.  Yes it can be used to facilitate an escape from enemies but what a waste of a cooldown when having an exit strategy is all you need to avoid that scenario.

UK Wildcat wrote...

The reason these debates happen, and sometimes devolve into flaming and arguments   , is that people confuse enjoying a playstyle with their playstyle being the best way to do something - but then lack actual valid reasons for such claims.

Wow, it's quite liberating to see you acknowledge your own modus operandi.  That was awful big of you.  There are so many closed minded individuals on these forums that insult anyone with a valid point or evidence contradictory to the group-think accepted explanation.  I hope that from here on you'll approach our dialog with an open mind.

UK Wildcat wrote...

A way to track which guns are the 'best' would be to measure players across all games using certain weapons, the time it takes them to complete each difficulty, the %chance of success they have on each difficulty with each gun, the amount of deaths they incur with each gun, the amount of equipment used in conjunction with each gun, the %chance as player has of winning a game based on class/weight.

No... just... no.  That's the way you track which guns are most popular, not which guns are the best unless you're talking about people soloing.  In normal gameplay there are far too many factors to even attempt analyzing which guns are best because teamcomposition, enemy type, wave composition, and spawn locations... and those factors are just the ones off the top of my head.

UK Wildcat wrote... 

There are obviously 'best' guns in Multiplayer.  Arguing otherwise is an attempt to make this conversation devolve into playstyle only arguments, which simply don't make sense.  

You can't make an overgeneralized statement like that and then bully people into silence by telling them their argument makes no sense.  The argument in this situation that makes no sense is you claiming that there is a single best gun in the game that will always be the best no matter what your team make up is, no matter what class you personally play, no matter what enemy type you face, or difficulty you play on.  You might as well be arguing which gun in real life is best in all situations. 

UK Wildcat wrote...

Quibble all day, it's amusing.  Why are you so invested in the widow being better?  Do you make love to it?

Oh, there you go again, devolving into flaming.  Your open mindedness didn't last very long at all.

[UK Wildcat]

It's always fun when Sabbatine comes back from under the bridge and tries to impart motives / ideas to me that I don't possess. Cute.

[Giantdeathrobot]

As I am personally not a great shot, I prefer the Phalanx to the Carnifex (helps that I have Phalanx X but Carnifex I), it's a gun useful at pretty much any range that does more than enough damage to quickly dispatch foes with headshots (which are easily acheivable with Overload stunning them and the leeway of missing once or twice), and since I mostly play support classes the nearly-absent weight helps. In contrast, the Carnifex is heavier and much less forgiving with misses. Widow is out of the question, it's way too heavy. What's the point of playing a support class if you can unly use powers once every 5 seconds minimum? Mantis is better, but it's even less forgiving of misses; if I ever use it, it's with a backup weapon in case, which again negates the point of playing a support class in the first place.

So I don't think the Carnifex is the best gun for every class. If you want something all around that doesn't intrude with power use (which is what Engineers and Adepts want, as I see it anyhow), the Phalanx, or even the Predator is better.

As for the Widow vs Mantis debate, as an Infiltrator I pretty much only use the Viper, as again it's very forgiving but can still punch through anything save an Atlas in two or three shots. If you use Energy Drain, then cloak, and headshot kills a Centurion/Nemesis, on Silver at any rate. The only times I've played Gold are on my Engineer, and it was far more power spam than shooty shooty, so can't speak for that difficulty.

[count_4]

UK Wildcat wrote...
Why are you so invested in the widow being better?  Do you make love to it?

Why are you so invested in the widow being worse? Has it broken your heart (or some other inner organ maybe)?

Seriously guys, grow up. The amount of superfluous ego in this thread is mind-boggling. You're flaming at each other over a virtual gun in a video game, behaving like 12 year-olds thinking they're the only ones who really know how things are done.


For your own sake, develop some debating culture. Makes said debates way more valuable(and more interesting to read) and you don't make yourself look like a jerk in the process.

Modifié par count_4, 27 février 2012 - 10:28 .

[Leeroi]

 So ummm... hey, WildCat - see what the useless Widow can do? When you manage to solo Gold with a Carnifex, let me know k?

[UK Wildcat]

count_4 wrote...

UK Wildcat wrote...
Why are you so invested in the widow being better?  Do you make love to it?

Why are you so invested in the widow being worse? Has it broken your heart (or some other inner organ maybe)?

Seriously guys, grow up. The amount of superfluous ego in this thread is mind-boggling. You're flaming at each other over a virtual gun in a video game, behaving like 12 year-olds thinking they're the only ones who really know how things are done.


For your own sake, develop some debating culture. Makes said debates way more valuable(and more interesting to read) and you don't make yourself look like a jerk in the process.

I am persuaded by your claims that we are looking like children, and then using the identical language from prior posts while making juvenile inner organ jokes. 

Also, your 'point' about developing culture is quite funny.  Please, teach me how to develop your super-advanced virtual persona video-game internet anonymity debating tactics while simultaneously implying others are elitist in other threads and or debating what exactly the term ironic means.

<3

[FearTheLiving]

Sabbatine wrote...
This is a pretty rare scenario.  Enemies will almost never rush you in cover because if they get too close you can instant kill them with a melee grab.  If you are hiding around a corner then you almost certainly have enough space to back off and more cover you can take further back.  If you play smart the only time you'll ever need tactical cloak for anything other than boosting weapon damage is for completing objectives and reviving team mates.  Yes it can be used to facilitate an escape from enemies but what a waste of a cooldown when having an exit strategy is all you need to avoid that scenario.

Not sure what demo your playing but Cerberus tries to rush me all the time, even when you have an "escape plan" they try mighty hard to flank you. As to the grab you can't grab them if they don't go into cover, which they often doen when rushing you hence the term "rushing".

Could I get away without cloak? Sure I'm sure I could but it's a lot easier knowing I have it just in case and need it and not risk dying on my way to help someone or holding off half a wave on silver or gold because my team goes down so much when I don't feel like rushing across the map to help them. Which apparently they think the farther away they get from me the better even though I seem to be the only one who attempts to rez them.

With that said I still prefer the Mantis it's far easier to ge that to X then the Widow, the weight allows for faster cooldown and an extra weapon if needed. The whole Guardian argument for the Widow is void to me cause even if I somehow miss a bunch an they're near me cloak move back just a bit and continue shooting. They're slow and they don't hit very hard for guys walking around with shotguns.

Modifié par FearTheLiving, 27 février 2012 - 10:47 .

[GroverA 125]

Seriously, this is getting petty, while two people trying to outsmart each other is how tactic games were created, this is not the place. Neither of the weapons are better than the other, both have flaws, and both have advantages. One side has a more useful application to general combat, while the other is more specialised around a certain area (blowing up big stuff/armoured stuff/multiple stuff at once) and as such, comparing them is a petty and pointless process that will never end and you might as well both be playing "the nuke game"*

If you people really want to place your opinions on what tactic/weapon is better, then you should all play chess, that is a game built on tactics and planning and the theory that you are better than your opponent, but its only halfway through when you realise neither tactic or plan is perfect. Such is the way of the widow and mantis. Neither can do everything the other can with the same amount of effectiveness, and you're all going to have to accept it, stop being so damn anal about it, and understand that there is more than one way to play with a sniper rifle.

*: "the nuke game" is where one person plays as america, and one person plays as russia, and players have to win by nuking the other side without losing their own side. After the first few minutes, both players will realise that it is an unachievable feat, and therefore is a very pointless game.