122 réponses à ce sujet

[count_4]

UK Wildcat wrote...
I am persuaded by your claims that we are looking like children, and then using the identical language from prior posts while making juvenile inner organ jokes.

 
As someone who does not take part in the overall discussion, I am allowed to make such jokes as they don't include any attempt to lessen the position of any potential opponent.  I just did it for (and please note the complete absence of any generalization here) my lulz. And it was too tempting.

UK Wildcat wrote...
Please, teach me how to develop your super-advanced virtual persona video-game internet anonymity debating tactics while simultaneously implying others are elitist in other threads and or debating what exactly the term ironic means.

I'm impressed. You were able to click a link (+1 internets for you if you actually remembered the posts). But honestly, I can't remember calling anyone elitist lately. You're better informed about what I'm posting than I am it seems.

As for the teaching: For the first lesson, start by not getting personal by trying (and miserably failing) to ridicule the opponent when they have a valid point. It makes you look stupid and at a loss of arguments.

Disclaimer: Debating culture has nothing to do with internet, anonymity or virtual persona tactics(whatever that may be).

Modifié par count_4, 27 février 2012 - 11:14 .

[minirlz]

I can get two kills with one shot of my mantis this is ment to be the widows thing but mantis does it better no to mention all the other reasons it beats the widow this is an easy choice

[CrashTagger]

I just tried 2 full games with the Widow II. I can safely say I'll return to my Mantis X.

Much more ammo, and I always shoot at neck/chest/head. Sure, it has better reloading speed than the Mantis, but 13+1 (clip) ammo is not enough for a wave. With Mantis' 36+1, I can survive a whole wave and still have ammo left, provided I don't waste it and use powers and melee as well. It's just better for me.

[GroverA 125]

minirlz wrote...

I can get two kills with one shot of my mantis this is ment to be the widows thing but mantis does it better no to mention all the other reasons it beats the widow this is an easy choice

I understand your reasoning, but you do realise that the only two advantages (apart from being easier to upgrade, which won't matter at higher levels) the mantis has is spare ammo capacity and weight? In truth, the only major issue with the widow is weight, as you'll never be too far from an ammo box anyway. Back to the issues though, doesn't that essentially mean that, because it has higher capacity and less weight, the carnifex is better, and in this case, following this reasoning, the phalanx is the ultimate weapon for snipers? As it is the lowest weight, highest capacity out of the lot, unless you want to go deeper.

[CrashTagger]

GroverA 125 wrote...
 In truth, the only major issue with the widow is weight, as you'll never be too far from an ammo box anyway.

You are correct, though I found myself playing only with Concussive Shot/Warp when I ran out of ammo defending objectives. I literally couldn't afford to leave the target area due to a team thinking they were Rambos, and too fabulous to go for the objective.

Not saying your statement is false, but just pointing out occasions where ammo is seriously an issue, considering the weapon is your only weapon and too heavy to go alongside another weapon.

[GroverA 125]

CrashTagger wrote...

GroverA 125 wrote...
 In truth, the only major issue with the widow is weight, as you'll never be too far from an ammo box anyway.

You are correct, though I found myself playing only with Concussive Shot/Warp when I ran out of ammo defending objectives. I literally couldn't afford to leave the target area due to a team thinking they were Rambos, and too fabulous to go for the objective.

Not saying your statement is false, but just pointing out occasions where ammo is seriously an issue, considering the weapon is your only weapon and too heavy to go alongside another weapon.

True, but if you aren't using the infiltrator, why are you using the bolt-actions in the first place? When I use my turian sentinel or soldier, I always use the viper. It's damage is around the same as the carnifex (if its the same level, of course) it has massive amounts of spare ammo, a 6 magazine means you can kill more than one target per reload, and of course the reload is as fast as that of an Avenger. Not only this, but because it is a sniper, its chances of getting ammo powers kicking in are very likely, so most of the time (if you're using the appropriate rounds) your targets will be be immobilized in place for the follow-up shot, which means you can essentially get three relatively easy kills per mag, and then you only have to be in cover for around 1/4 of a second. The bolt actions are still an option, but really I find that the viper is just better for the non-infiltrator (or stasis-sniper)

[KayB1991]

well i ended up getting the mantis and viper up to x, haven't got the widow yet, but the viper can easily one-shot enemies with a well placed headshot, and with the amount of reserve clips and 6 shots before you have to reload I think it is one of the best to use. It's very light weight, especially if you have the infiltrator and have them set up for 30 percent weight reduction. I have not tried out the mantix x yet but I am guessing that it is pretty powerful as well.

[royard]

DCko wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Ok so to my knowledge each Widow upgrade nets a 6% cooldown reduction.

My Sal Infi, Widow level 2, has 46% reduction.

add 48% to that at a level 10 Widow and we have what 94%.

That's pretty good, will do significantly more damage and will allow use of a SMG or Pistol if needed.

I will let you know what my cooldown % is once I get home from work on my widow 6.

But Widow 6 vs Mantis 10... Widow 6 damage stats is maxed out with the barrel. I believe when it gets to Widow 10, the damage will go beyond what the stats even says w/ barrel equipped. 0_0

Widow X is +90% for salarian with all weight bonus and weight reduction.  Widow X has 17 shots. 

The problem with Widow is simply that you WILL get access to Mantis X before getting Widow I in the real game.  And you don't need Widow anymore. 

Modifié par royard, 28 février 2012 - 12:00 .

[Relix28]

CrashTagger wrote...

GroverA 125 wrote...
 In truth, the only major issue with the widow is weight, as you'll never be too far from an ammo box anyway.

You are correct, though I found myself playing only with Concussive Shot/Warp when I ran out of ammo defending objectives. I literally couldn't afford to leave the target area due to a team thinking they were Rambos, and too fabulous to go for the objective.

Not saying your statement is false, but just pointing out occasions where ammo is seriously an issue, considering the weapon is your only weapon and too heavy to go alongside another weapon.

Everyone seems to forget that you can use ammo packs twice per match. This + the fact that ammo boxes are just about everywhere on the map, should make ammo issues non-existant.

[ShykeX]

The Mantis does 259dps and the Widow 365dps fully upgraded. If you factor in weight when fully upgraded, you find a dps-efficiency of 259 for the Mantis and 182.5 for the Widow.

(Min weight of the Widow is 2, mantis being 1).

[Leeroi]

ShykeX wrote...

The Mantis does 259dps and the Widow 365dps fully upgraded. If you factor in weight when fully upgraded, you find a dps-efficiency of 259 for the Mantis and 182.5 for the Widow.

(Min weight of the Widow is 2, mantis being 1).

I see where you're coming from and in theory, you're right.

However, that is largely incorrect because what happens in the game is you cloak, shoot, reload and cloak again. Before taking a 2nd shot in cloak, you have to have the heatsink ejected. Both Widow and Mantis do that in approximately the same time. So, as long as you get an appropriately high level Widow that reduces your Cloak cooldown to a shorter-than-your-reload time, Widow will out-DPS the Mantis by a very wide margin. That's it, really.

Modifié par Leeroi, 28 février 2012 - 12:08 .

[minirlz]

GroverA 125 wrote...

minirlz wrote...

I can get two kills with one shot of my mantis this is ment to be the widows thing but mantis does it better no to mention all the other reasons it beats the widow this is an easy choice

I understand your reasoning, but you do realise that the only two advantages (apart from being easier to upgrade, which won't matter at higher levels) the mantis has is spare ammo capacity and weight? In truth, the only major issue with the widow is weight, as you'll never be too far from an ammo box anyway. Back to the issues though, doesn't that essentially mean that, because it has higher capacity and less weight, the carnifex is better, and in this case, following this reasoning, the phalanx is the ultimate weapon for snipers? As it is the lowest weight, highest capacity out of the lot, unless you want to go deeper.

Well I prefer the carnifexs extra damage over the phalanx and I always have a pistol with me unless I want really fast recharge time but this topic isn't about which weapon is the beat one for snipping or anything for that matter this topic is about why the mantis is a better all round weapon than the widow and even if the pistols are better (which is odd and I hope fixed) I prefer snipers they are just awesome! I always use them in games no matter the game so I no were you are coming from it just doesn't matter cause we are not discussing pistols well we are not ment to be

[CrashTagger]

GroverA 125 wrote...
True, but if you aren't using the infiltrator, why are you using the bolt-actions in the first place? When I use my turian sentinel or soldier, I always use the viper. It's damage is around the same as the carnifex (if its the same level, of course) it has massive amounts of spare ammo, a 6 magazine means you can kill more than one target per reload, and of course the reload is as fast as that of an Avenger. Not only this, but because it is a sniper, its chances of getting ammo powers kicking in are very likely, so most of the time (if you're using the appropriate rounds) your targets will be be immobilized in place for the follow-up shot, which means you can essentially get three relatively easy kills per mag, and then you only have to be in cover for around 1/4 of a second. The bolt actions are still an option, but really I find that the viper is just better for the non-infiltrator (or stasis-sniper)

I just found that I can do way, way better with sniper rifles when using a 20 level Turian Sentinel and a 19 level Human Soldier. Their abilities, passive and active, help me get one-shot kills even on chest/shoulder areas, but I mostly do headshots - I get the 20 headshots medal before or during wave 6 most of the time. I have my Avenger as a side weapon. I haven't really explored the Viper, but right now, I'm doing godlike with the Mantis. I know there aren't many substantial differences between their playstyles, but it's just what I like and what makes me feel comfortable.

Relix28 wrote...
Everyone seems to forget that you can use
ammo packs twice per match. This + the fact that ammo boxes are just
about everywhere on the map, should make ammo issues non-existant.

I wouldn't want to change my position and let the AI flood my place, especially when it's a room, like most Firebase Ghost's "hack" spawns. I'll lose time, lose my position in the room and get flanked while I'm out for ammo. The Cerberus are quite fast moving when they see open space. I also prefer to use my ammo packs against Atlases, since I only use rockets on Silver and Gold, and don't waste them on Bronze.

[Relix28]

CrashTagger wrote...

GroverA 125 wrote...
True, but if you aren't using the infiltrator, why are you using the bolt-actions in the first place? When I use my turian sentinel or soldier, I always use the viper. It's damage is around the same as the carnifex (if its the same level, of course) it has massive amounts of spare ammo, a 6 magazine means you can kill more than one target per reload, and of course the reload is as fast as that of an Avenger. Not only this, but because it is a sniper, its chances of getting ammo powers kicking in are very likely, so most of the time (if you're using the appropriate rounds) your targets will be be immobilized in place for the follow-up shot, which means you can essentially get three relatively easy kills per mag, and then you only have to be in cover for around 1/4 of a second. The bolt actions are still an option, but really I find that the viper is just better for the non-infiltrator (or stasis-sniper)

I just found that I can do way, way better with sniper rifles when using a 20 level Turian Sentinel and a 19 level Human Soldier. Their abilities, passive and active, help me get one-shot kills even on chest/shoulder areas, but I mostly do headshots - I get the 20 headshots medal before or during wave 6 most of the time. I have my Avenger as a side weapon. I haven't really explored the Viper, but right now, I'm doing godlike with the Mantis. I know there aren't many substantial differences between their playstyles, but it's just what I like and what makes me feel comfortable.

Relix28 wrote...
Everyone seems to forget that you can use
ammo packs twice per match. This + the fact that ammo boxes are just
about everywhere on the map, should make ammo issues non-existant.

I wouldn't want to change my position and let the AI flood my place, especially when it's a room, like most Firebase Ghost's "hack" spawns. I'll lose time, lose my position in the room and get flanked while I'm out for ammo. The Cerberus are quite fast moving when they see open space. I also prefer to use my ammo packs against Atlases, since I only use rockets on Silver and Gold, and don't waste them on Bronze.

Eeerm, those ammo packs (not stationary ammo boxes) are ideal for situations like the one you described above. They fill up all your ammo and grenades in an instance. All you have to do is press a button. You can easily out maneuver Atlas mechs, and refil your ammo on one of the boxes on the map, if you happen to run out.

[CrashTagger]

I know but I always amass aggro and they keep me pinned down along with troops. Unless I'm an Infiltrator and cloak myself, I don't usually risk my head and my teammate's heads, in case I can't use Medi-Gel to self-revive.

Anyway, I think this has stemmed off topic.

[ShykeX]

Leeroi wrote...

ShykeX wrote...

The Mantis does 259dps and the Widow 365dps fully upgraded. If you factor in weight when fully upgraded, you find a dps-efficiency of 259 for the Mantis and 182.5 for the Widow.

(Min weight of the Widow is 2, mantis being 1).

I see where you're coming from and in theory, you're right.

However, that is largely incorrect because what happens in the game is you cloak, shoot, reload and cloak again. Before taking a 2nd shot in cloak, you have to have the heatsink ejected. Both Widow and Mantis do that in approximately the same time. So, as long as you get an appropriately high level Widow that reduces your Cloak cooldown to a shorter-than-your-reload time, Widow will out-DPS the Mantis by a very wide margin. That's it, really.

This is impossible. The Widow reload time is ~3 seconds. The minimum cooldown is 3 seconds.

[Sabbatine]

Relix28 wrote...

Eeerm, those ammo packs (not stationary ammo boxes) are ideal for situations like the one you described above. They fill up all your ammo and grenades in an instance. All you have to do is press a button. You can easily out maneuver Atlas mechs, and refil your ammo on one of the boxes on the map, if you happen to run out.

If he's playing a soldier with at least one point in adrenaline rush it is literally impossible to run out of ammo.

[ncknck]

ShykeX wrote...

The Mantis does 259dps and the Widow 365dps fully upgraded. If you factor in weight when fully upgraded, you find a dps-efficiency of 259 for the Mantis and 182.5 for the Widow.

(Min weight of the Widow is 2, mantis being 1).

dps doesnt matter with slow reload guns. Nor does it matter with all the guns either, as for example Carnifex isnt exactly a high dps weapon. Like said above even Phanalx outdps's it. Widow wins in Hit&Kill&Run damage, particulary easy with an infiltrator. As it is unlikely anyone will shoot SR on-reload, aka without aiming, that dps number simply doesnt show the real picture. Say for example with a guardian its scope&kill bodyshot  with a widow. And with Mantis youll have to reposition or aim slower - here goes the dps down the drain.

Modifié par ncknck, 28 février 2012 - 10:26 .

[SimRahzel]

For those of you that (like me) that are rubbish at sniping but want to play with an SR to get used to them or even just for kicks, the Widow is perfect for you!

The Mantis X looks like it is only very slightly less powerful than the Widow IV on the stats screen, but with the Mantis you won't kill even basic troops with one shot unless you headshot them. With the Widow you can one-shot almost everyone (on bronze) by hitting them anywhere.

Despite sucking with a sniper rifle, enemies have become laughably easy to take down with my Salarian Infiltrator equipped with just the Widow. Energy drain + one shot anywhere can kill a centurion, a nemesis and even a phantom. And Guardians have become a joke!

I recommend trying it out just for fun...

[eschaeron]

Just so you know: with a properly specced Salarian Inf, a Widow I, level V upgrades, and Warp Ammo II, Cloak+Drain+Quick Body Shot While Still Cloaked kills a Phantom. You're welcome. Mantis isn't bad by a long shot, but the ability to deal with Guardians, Phantoms and Atlases easily is just priceless. Plus you don't need a quicker cooldown to your powers, it synchronizes perfectly. Ammunition is a non-issue, really, even with only 14 rounds, I have never used both my ammo packs in a single game, and then found the need to have a third.

Modifié par eschaeron, 02 mars 2012 - 12:19 .

[SimRahzel]

Agreed, I find I can still use cloak and energy drain pretty often. Once I've maxed the weapon damage I think it'll even be fine to carry a pistol as a backup.

Anyone know if its better to take the 10% increase in weapon carrying limit or the 30% weight reduction on snipers for the Widow? I'm guessing the 30% reduction is better...

[Joyce_Esther]

i've been playing my infiltrator with widow II all the time. it can shoot through guardians' shield, and only requires a few shoot to kill atlas.

[DCko]

eschaeron wrote...

Just so you know: with a properly specced Salarian Inf, a Widow I, level V upgrades, and Warp Ammo II, Cloak+Drain+Quick Body Shot While Still Cloaked kills a Phantom. You're welcome. Mantis isn't bad by a long shot, but the ability to deal with Guardians, Phantoms and Atlases easily is just priceless. Plus you don't need a quicker cooldown to your powers, it synchronizes perfectly. Ammunition is a non-issue, really, even with only 14 rounds, I have never used both my ammo packs in a single game, and then found the need to have a third.

Yeah, i didn't spec my energy drain correctly. But I know for sure you can drain phantom shields and follow it up with a widow, all in one combo, on Gold.

The only possible way I can cloak + drain + widow a phantom with my current build is to have warp ammo equipped. But lesson learned. Now I won't make the same mistake in the full game.

Gonna have fun tweaking each of my characters for Gold. 

Modifié par DCko, 02 mars 2012 - 08:27 .