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[Locutus_of_BORG]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

KyleLambert wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Peace is the answer.

You have to choose.

You do not, actually. There is a whole thread in this section of the forums detailing the conditions that must be met in order to make peace an option.

Unless you are saying I have to choose as a hypothetical for the purposes of your thread.

You can choose. Whether your particular Shepard can or not is one thing, but it is possible to save both.

[izmirtheastarach]

Yes.

[Maialeth]

The Free Jaffa wrote...

I was quite astonished that the paragon choice is to rewrite the Heretics. It would be one thing if the Reapers indoctrinated the Heretics, but what I gather from the wiki, and my own understand of what Legion told me in game (multiple times), is that the Heretics chose their own way. You're brainwashing the Heretics, sentient beings that chose their own path. I choose the renegade option because to me, it's the better option. I have a feeling each one of those geth would rather be dead than brainwashed.

Actually What Legion told us was that the heretics were brainwashed to follow the "Old machines".  A 'Virus' Was introduced to them that altered their most basic runtimes, as Legion said something similar to the fact that While The Geth returned a value of 1.48885 The rewriting caused the heretics to return a value of 1.48886 (actual numbers changed cause I can't remember them, but the message is still the same). Where as the Geth say 3 is less than 4, the Heretics say 4 is less than 5. So in effect rewriting the Heretics was returning them to the state they were before they were rewritten by the reapers. Basically they /were/ indocternated

[izmirtheastarach]

1.33382 & 1.33381

[Maialeth]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

1.33382 & 1.33381

Thank you!

[Juniper Mucius]

Maialeth wrote...

The Free Jaffa wrote...

I was quite astonished that the paragon choice is to rewrite the Heretics. It would be one thing if the Reapers indoctrinated the Heretics, but what I gather from the wiki, and my own understand of what Legion told me in game (multiple times), is that the Heretics chose their own way. You're brainwashing the Heretics, sentient beings that chose their own path. I choose the renegade option because to me, it's the better option. I have a feeling each one of those geth would rather be dead than brainwashed.

Actually What Legion told us was that the heretics were brainwashed to follow the "Old machines".  A 'Virus' Was introduced to them that altered their most basic runtimes, as Legion said something similar to the fact that While The Geth returned a value of 1.48885 The rewriting caused the heretics to return a value of 1.48886 (actual numbers changed cause I can't remember them, but the message is still the same). Where as the Geth say 3 is less than 4, the Heretics say 4 is less than 5. So in effect rewriting the Heretics was returning them to the state they were before they were rewritten by the reapers. Basically they /were/ indocternated

Frell, I forgot all about that part of the conversation.  Thanks for the reminder.  I'll keep that in mind on this playthrough.  I haven't got Legion again (this is I think my fourth playthrough).  I was set on destroying them, but remebering that will make the decision tougher for me.

[Kasen]

The Free Jaffa wrote...

Maialeth wrote...

The Free Jaffa wrote...

I was quite astonished that the paragon choice is to rewrite the Heretics. It would be one thing if the Reapers indoctrinated the Heretics, but what I gather from the wiki, and my own understand of what Legion told me in game (multiple times), is that the Heretics chose their own way. You're brainwashing the Heretics, sentient beings that chose their own path. I choose the renegade option because to me, it's the better option. I have a feeling each one of those geth would rather be dead than brainwashed.

Actually What Legion told us was that the heretics were brainwashed to follow the "Old machines".  A 'Virus' Was introduced to them that altered their most basic runtimes, as Legion said something similar to the fact that While The Geth returned a value of 1.48885 The rewriting caused the heretics to return a value of 1.48886 (actual numbers changed cause I can't remember them, but the message is still the same). Where as the Geth say 3 is less than 4, the Heretics say 4 is less than 5. So in effect rewriting the Heretics was returning them to the state they were before they were rewritten by the reapers. Basically they /were/ indocternated

Frell, I forgot all about that part of the conversation.  Thanks for the reminder.  I'll keep that in mind on this playthrough.  I haven't got Legion again (this is I think my fourth playthrough).  I was set on destroying them, but remebering that will make the decision tougher for me.

There was another thread about a month ago where I pointed out that is not the case at all. I don't feel like going into all the details right now, but the point boiled down to what Legion says confirms that Sovereign never brainwashed/rewrote the heretics, they came to the decision of their own free will. That line regarding a math error is in fact what the Reaper Virus you use to rewrite the Geth on Heretic Station does.

Edit: Not sure if that last line is accurate after thinking about it some more (it is). I do know that everything I found where Legion discussed it just backed up the case for it being the Heretics own free will more and more.

Edit 2, rather than making a new post: As I recall, one of the most effective arguments for the case that this was indeed the Heretics own decision based on their own free will was the line in which Legion states that even with the virus, some of the rewritten Geth may still change their mind again and rejoin the Reapers either way. That means it is their own choice.

The subject is somewhat confusing (obviously), but searching the forums there are a few threads about it, though I didn't find the most recent one, and I don't feel like getting into it all over again.

Modifié par Kasen13, 27 février 2012 - 07:04 .

[oneshott14]

Gotta pick between the two?

PRE-CANCEL ORDERED.

[The_Crazy_Hand]

xnoxiousx wrote...

Think what you want bud but trust me rewriting them is wrong choice. When have geth ever helped or done anything for you? Legion is an expecption.

I hate to say it, but the plot of ME3 seems to agree with you.  My only reservation about killing off the Geth is whether or not Legion can continue on w/o them.  We know he self-sacrifices if you make peace, but if you kill the other Geth, I wonder.......

Yeah, that's pretty much my only reservation at this point.

[Virgil88]

Heretics chose their own path. They chose to side/help the Reapers and that's all I need to understand. Maybe they have been indoctrinated/hacked into. Irrelevant. It is revealed the Heretic's station contain Reaper tech. Reaper indoctrination is absolute. They have to be destroyed.

[Combine911]

I would blow both of them up for humanity. the first step to human control of the universe

[Juniper Mucius]

Combine911 wrote...

I would blow both of them up for humanity. the first step to human control of the universe

As a...alienopologist?...I would have to stop you from doing this.

[Combine911]

I was worried this would happen, the space gestapo will come and pick you up at 10 tonight for re-education

[bakatronix]

i hate the idea of losing one for another. i did choose to rewrite the geth and i did it because i felt it was the right decision (im not changing it either). its like me choosing kaiden of ashley - i just felt kaiden had a more important task and you needed to defend it. and as hot as ashley suddenly looks now im not going to move or budge that either. i just hope that my femshep's new romantic interest (garrus) kills kaiden in a fight because good god he's annoying.

heart of the matter is i'm going to push for peace. ive done everything but destroy the heretics according to the list above. less ships - whatever. i'll try to see if i can amp my stats playing coop.

[Xayoz]

Well. My main Shep will most certainly help quarians beat the geth.
Really don't like that the peace option is even there, takes away a lot from the gravity of your decision.

I do wonder tho. Is there no way to make Daro'Xen's plan of re-enslaving the Geth work?

[ddv.rsa]

What if you have enough points from ME2 but specifically want to destroy the geth? Is that still possible?

[NovemEnuma]

 You can get both, but, you have to meet some conditions and rack up a certain amount of points (5) from said conditions. Each condition has a point value assigned to it. Here are the conditions:

1. Tali AND Legion are loyal/alive at the end of Mass Effect 2 (+1)
2. The Geth heretics were destroyed in Mass Effect 2 (+2)
3. Tali was NOT exiled, instead all treason charges dropped in Mass Effect 2 (+2)
4. Mass Effect 3: Admiral Koris vas Qwib-Qwib rescued and survives (+1)
5. Mass Effect 3: Some mission related to Admiral Koris vas Qwib-Qwib complete (+1)

They way I'm reading it, if you have 5 out of 7 points then you get an option to save both Geth and Quarian. However, you must pass a high paragon/renegade check as well to "seal the deal". If you don't have 5 out of 7 points, or you don't pass the paragon/renegade check close to the conflicts conclusion, you have to pick between the Geth and the Quarians.

Source:

I have the N7 strategy guide in my possession.

Modifié par NovemEnuma, 27 février 2012 - 01:01 .

[Arppis]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

So the rewriting makes the Geth stronger and the Quarians weaker. You seem to stil get more war assets overall all that way, and less if you destroy the Heretics.

Admiral Korris gets shot down over Rannoch. So you have to retreive Quarians defense codes from his crashed ship. And then you can choose to rescue his troops or him. Since he is in favour of peace, retreaiving him adds that extra point towards peace.

Good to know, but I bet it'll be renegade option. But that's nice info there. I'll just have to bite the bullet and do it.

And seems like I will be doing this part last before I heard to Earth.

Modifié par Arppis, 27 février 2012 - 01:09 .

[ddv.rsa]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

So the rewriting makes the Geth stronger and the Quarians weaker. You seem to stil get more war assets overall all that way, and less if you destroy the Heretics.

Admiral Korris gets shot down over Rannoch. So you have to retreive Quarians defense codes from his crashed ship. And then you can choose to rescue his troops or him. Since he is in favour of peace, retreaiving him adds that extra point towards peace.

This is Admiral Quib-Quib the geth apologist, right? Man this is poetic justice. No way am I abandoning good soldiers to their deaths to save his cowardly, traitorous bacon. He deserves to be left to the mercy of the geth he loves so much.

[vikingsberg]

All i know about reading around the internet is that the geth side with the reapers regardless since the quarians are now attaking them. the geth feel threaten and go to the reapers for help. if you rewritten the heritics, more geth actually side with the reapers than by destroying them. if legion died, then his so called "backup" v.i will help you out. if he was sold to cerberus, same result but squadmates are more cautious since helping with a geth. Regardless, choosing one species over the other will be like kaidan/ashely moment, and you'll need one of them to build the crucible.

[JShepard1992]

Thanks for the info guys i didn't destroy the Heretics but thanks to this i know what to do if I want peace with the Geth and Quarians appreciate it

[L0NEWOLF25]

So what happends to Tali is you side with the Geth?

[Elegana]

L0NEWOLF25 wrote...

So what happends to Tali is you side with the Geth?

She jumps off a cliff on Rannoch, the quarian homeworld.