26 réponses à ce sujet

[Omega279]

 If you haven't been living under a rock recently, you may have heard about the Prothean Squad member in mass effect 3. I had been awaiting Bioware's response to TB's assertions that this game couldn't possibly be feature complete if an element of the story (that may not be integral to completing it) has been removed to monetise it.

So I just read Bioware's response:

"He (Gamble) stated that the character, described by Bain as important to the plot, was optional and did not detract from the completeness of Mass Effect 3 in its absence. "

I was already on the fence regarding Mass Effect 3 due to it being origin exclusive, but the "From Ashes" news has given me pause for thought.. From the outside, it looks like a blatant attempt at milking the customer. After all the news of a prothean was big news when it became known, it took me 2 days later to discover that it was being sold separately from the main game. But Bioware (Gamble) has now just said that it is completely optional and does not detract from the completeness of the game.

I'm rather torn by this news. The protheans are one of the most deep rooted and mysterious thing within the Mass Effect Universe, second to reapers, that filled the story of Mass Effect 1. How can something that fills so much of the Mass Effect universe have no affect on the experience of the main game / story?

Zaed was a throwaway character designed to combat the used gaming market. You would find it hard to argue that the arcs given by Zaed enhanced the story or lore of the universe by much. But this is a Prothean, everything about it indicates that it will have some kind of affect on the lore atleast.

Unless ofcourse, Gamble thinks that only arcs that affect the outcome of a story are what can be considered a part of the game.

It seems that either way, something has been lost. Either ethics by monetising something that should be a part of the game as standard or cheapening the story by not giving a character what it deserves... for those reason I will most likely not be buying Mass Efect 3 or I'll wait for a steam release that most likely isn't coming. 

So what are your thoughts regarding the Prothean?

Modifié par Omega279, 27 février 2012 - 01:02 .

[Xayoz]

You are right of course but EA needs to make more money.

[Planeforger]

The official word is that the DLC was completed after the game went gold, and thus it is fair game. If that's true...then it's still a shaky issue, since this character should really be the most important person we talk to in the entire game.

Having said that, we've known about this guy for nine months, he's featured in the art book, his sound files are in the demo build, and he turns up in last year's leaked script (which Bioware assures us is of a really old version of the game)...which makes the official story a bit more difficult to follow, tbh. Maybe he was officially finished after the game went gold, but the idea of including him in the story has been there for a long time...

Anyway, I think I'll wait for a version of the game that includes him. I really don't want to pay $10 just for this one character, and I don't think I've ever seen Mass Effect DLC go on sale...hm..

[Capeo]

I've read the leaked script and I'm not real sure where he fits in. Is he supposed the same Prothean as in the script?

[Tifa Strife]

A Prothean? Seriously? I don't get it. In Mass Effect 1 and 2, you were already told that most of them got wiped out by the Reapers. On top of that, a lot of them were also re-purposed, becoming the then Collectors. How is it possible that a single Prothean survived? The Reapers were slow at this genocide, but it was ultimately stated that they were THOROUGH with it. They made sure not one Prothean survived, or if it did, it'd be a Collector. The only known Protheans that survived the invasion was the top scientists that made the Conduit, the one Vigil made sure to save. Sure, he stated that he wasn't sure of their fate, but he knew it was only possible that they likely DIED.

So, I'm UTTERLY CONFUSED. Mind linking where this was said? I didn't even know about this! Thanks for giving the little bit of info, by the way! :3

[wirelesstkd]

It's entirely reasonable for Bioware to have developed him as a part of the main game, but then decide after rewriting the script that he was a peripheral character an unnecessary to the overall plot. Yes, it's a big deal because he's a Prothean, but if he's not integral to the story (and of course he's not, otherwise he would be part of the main game), then it's fine.

Remember this: although we all buy the DLC, there's a substantial portion of customers that don't. They just don't get in to the games as deeply as us. Those customers may not even know about the DLC, but EA would not want them feeling like they got an incomplete game. Even though they may have bought the game used or borrowed from a friend, EA wouldn't risk sullying their brand reputation with these folks who played ME on a more casual level. Of course this game is complete, out of the box.

[NovemEnuma]

Capeo wrote...

I've read the leaked script and I'm not real sure where he fits in. Is he supposed the same Prothean as in the script?

***SPOILER***

There's an important Prothean VI who's in the main story of Mass Effect 3. One both the "good guys" and "bad guys" are after. (i.e. You talk to said VI before you begin the final assault to take back Earth, in the HQ of Cerberus after defeating Kai Leng; Leng steals the VI from you on Thessia earlier in the game). People could very well be confused between Jawik the Prothean companion and the Prothean VI, who's quite important to the storyline.

Source:

I own the N7 strategy guide.

Modifié par NovemEnuma, 27 février 2012 - 02:46 .

[jeinasindorei]

There's really nothing special or mysterious about the Protheans anymore. All of their "mystique" got blown away at the end of the first game.

Besides, there were BILLIONS of Protheans. The odds that this one is anything special is practically nil.

In 8 days, everyone will go from complaining about having to pay for this character to complaining about how unimportant he is story-wise. All because they got worked up over their own illogical assumptions.

[Domdeegrpgc]

It's more that the Protheans are integral to the plot and play a large part in the main game, only that Prothy himself is optional.

Those who don't get the game won't be missing out on any Prothean goodness apart from Prothy. 

Modifié par Domdeegrpgc, 27 février 2012 - 03:49 .

[Capeo]

NovemEnuma wrote...

Capeo wrote...

I've read the leaked script and I'm not real sure where he fits in. Is he supposed the same Prothean as in the script?

***SPOILER***

There's an important Prothean VI who's in the main story of Mass Effect 3. One both the "good guys" and "bad guys" are after. (i.e. You talk to said VI before you begin the final assault to take back Earth, in the HQ of Cerberus after defeating Kai Leng; Leng steals the VI from you on Thessia earlier in the game). People could very well be confused between Jawik the Prothean companion and the Prothean VI, who's quite important to the storyline.

Source:

I own the N7 strategy guide.

Except...

VERY SPOILERISH

there is a living Prothean in main game who wrecks a bunch of Cerebus operatives before being captured by Kai Leng.  From what I read it's not a VI it's an actual Prothean.  Granted, the script is a mess and not in order but I was under the impression this happened early in the game.  I read the script a long time ago now though maybe I'm confused.

[NovemEnuma]

Capeo wrote...

NovemEnuma wrote...

Capeo wrote...

I've read the leaked script and I'm not real sure where he fits in. Is he supposed the same Prothean as in the script?

***SPOILER***

There's an important Prothean VI who's in the main story of Mass Effect 3. One both the "good guys" and "bad guys" are after. (i.e. You talk to said VI before you begin the final assault to take back Earth, in the HQ of Cerberus after defeating Kai Leng; Leng steals the VI from you on Thessia earlier in the game). People could very well be confused between Jawik the Prothean companion and the Prothean VI, who's quite important to the storyline.

Source:

I own the N7 strategy guide.

Except...

VERY SPOILERISH

there is a living Prothean in main game who wrecks a bunch of Cerebus operatives before being captured by Kai Leng.  From what I read it's not a VI it's an actual Prothean.  Granted, the script is a mess and not in order but I was under the impression this happened early in the game.  I read the script a long time ago now though maybe I'm confused.

I can confirm that, what you read in the past, is completely false NOW. (I'm not saying it was false then, but NOW). The Prothean is a VI now that the "good guys" and "bad guys" want, because it has VERY valuable information key to the war effort. The official N7 strategy guide--which I own, which I got early, thanks to a friend--makes no mention whatsoever of a live Prothean; but makes mention A LOT about an important VI the powers of the galaxy want. Said VI you have a rather long conversation with right before the attempt to retake earth at the game's conclusion in Chapter #3, right after defeating Kai Leng in Cerberus HQ.

Modifié par NovemEnuma, 27 février 2012 - 04:53 .

[Capeo]

NovemEnuma wrote...

I can confirm that, what you read in the past, is completely false NOW. (I'm not saying it was false then, but NOW). The Prothean is a VI now that the "good guys" and "bad guys" want, because it has VERY valuable information key to the war effort. The official N7 strategy guide--which I own, which I got early, thanks to a friend--makes no mention whatsoever of a live Prothean; but makes mention A LOT about an important VI the powers of the galaxy want. Said VI you have a rather long conversation with right before the attempt to retake earth at the game's conclusion in Chapter #3, right after defeating Kai Leng in Cerberus HQ.

Ah, I know what you're talking about now.  But that isn't the same one I was referring to.  Maybe they took that part out of the game then or turned it into the DLC because so far the script has been pretty dead on from the demo, the GI article, etc.  

[Omega279]

Capeo wrote...

 Maybe they took that part out of the game then or turned it into the DLC because so far the script has been pretty dead on from the demo, the GI article, etc.  

But that wouldn't agree with what Gamble has said since he claimed it was made after the core game and was worked on by a separate team.

[Capeo]

Omega279 wrote...

Capeo wrote...

 Maybe they took that part out of the game then or turned it into the DLC because so far the script has been pretty dead on from the demo, the GI article, etc.  

But that wouldn't agree with what Gamble has said since he claimed it was made after the core game and was worked on by a separate team.

I guess they could have cut it from the main game prior to even programming it then did so after the main game was gold.  I guess technically that wouldn't be lying.  Not to mention I'm only guessing here.  

[Vazen]

I remember reading something that said the Prothean is in Mass Effect 3 either way, you just don't get him as a permanent squad mate along with all of the other things that come with the dlc. However I don't know if this is true so don't quote me on that.

[LibertarianSteel]

Ok...

I'd rather the Protheans be a dead and gone race then have one survive...

Do they have a lifespan of 50,000 years? Wtf?

[Dr. rotinaj]

LibertarianSteel wrote...

Ok...

I'd rather the Protheans be a dead and gone race then have one survive...

Do they have a lifespan of 50,000 years? Wtf?

Do you honestly believe that the Prothean survived outside of stasis for 50 000 years? 

[Gold Dragon]

"Prothy the Prothean" is as integral to ME 3, as Shale was to DA:O (Stone Prisoner DLC).

That is: You will have a totally enjoyable experience without them, but you get some nice tidbits, and more experience and fun with them.

[SXOSXO]

Capeo wrote...

Omega279 wrote...

Capeo wrote...

 Maybe they took that part out of the game then or turned it into the DLC because so far the script has been pretty dead on from the demo, the GI article, etc.  

But that wouldn't agree with what Gamble has said since he claimed it was made after the core game and was worked on by a separate team.

I guess they could have cut it from the main game prior to even programming it then did so after the main game was gold.  I guess technically that wouldn't be lying.  Not to mention I'm only guessing here.  

How to tell a dev or publisher is lying leading up to game launch:
1) Lips are moving
2) Refer back to #1

[jeinasindorei]

Omega279 wrote...

Capeo wrote...

 Maybe they took that part out of the game then or turned it into the DLC because so far the script has been pretty dead on from the demo, the GI article, etc.  

But that wouldn't agree with what Gamble has said since he claimed it was made after the core game and was worked on by a separate team.

Something can be written in a game script and not created in game. He wasn't saying the team came up with, wrote, created and designed the DLC after the main game. It was always in the planning stages and some core groundwork went into it prior to the game going into certification, but that doesn't mean the content was complete and then cut to be resold.

After the game went into certification, the team began doing the actual work on the DLC, programming, animation, modeling, bug fixing, tweaking, etc.

[Omega279]

jeinasindorei wrote...

Something can be written in a game script and not created in game. He wasn't saying the team came up with, wrote, created and designed the DLC after the main game. It was always in the planning stages and some core groundwork went into it prior to the game going into certification, but that doesn't mean the content was complete and then cut to be resold.

After the game went into certification, the team began doing the actual work on the DLC, programming, animation, modeling, bug fixing, tweaking, etc.

I'm not sure if I buy that. I regard anything that is developed before the final release as what the players have paid for. From Ashes seems to be deliberately cut rather than an after thought.

They're a company and they're allowed to make money however they please, but I don't like being blatantly milked for all I'm worth. I'd rather spend my money on another game that seeks to serve me the best game possible.

A good example of game developing ethic can be seen in Nintendo, for example. Where the developers actually protested when Link's Crossbow Training was in development because they believed it was reusing existing software (Twilight Princess Engine, models, maps, animations, ect). Not to mention they can spend up to 5 years developing a Zelda game to serve the customer rather than milking a franchise, which can effectively destroy a franchise in many cases.

Simply knowing how other developers work in regards to ethics makes it a tough call, especially when I'm already getting a bad service in the form of internet DRM (origin) which can be a pain since I ocasionally mobile game and I'm dependant on the servers being up. (I remember a news article talking about how everyone with a legit copy of BF3 couldn't play for 3 days when origin was down while pirates were free to). It makes the stories around EA and Bioware worse by contrast.

Anyway, I'd rather not rant about the thousands of papercuts. I'm simply going to reward game companies like Valve with Steam and nintendo for offering the good service that they do by buying the games they offer.

Not that it's saying much and I don't see it as some sort of huge statement, but I doubt I'll buy another bioware or origin game as a result of the way their industry is going. 

Modifié par Omega279, 01 mars 2012 - 08:50 .

[Taleroth]

Legion's more special than a Prothean. Sovereign is considered a Geth ship. Here's a Geth telling the council they're wrong!

lol nope

Tali Zorah, you are accused of bringing active Geth onto the Flotilla.
*Legion standing behind her*
She's innocent, I swear!

Modifié par Taleroth, 01 mars 2012 - 09:30 .