374 réponses à ce sujet

[Hunter of Legends]

Dean_the_Young wrote...


Neither side particularly has claim to being thoroughly thoughtful.

I can

[fredward55]

I didn't get that one it was before I knew what DLC was and I didn't got live at that time

[incinerator950]

No one cares Hunter.

[Hunter of Legends]

incinerator950 wrote...

No one cares Hunter.

Why do you say such hurtful things!

[GuardianAngel470]

Unfortunately, in my experience Bioware games have never really been about consequences. In fact, very few games can say they are about consequences. In most cases all you ever get is a cameo for your troubles.

In Deus Ex, the game with my favorite conversation system, you had a cameo if you spared a couple characters but the overall story wasn't significantly impacted.

In KotOR you got a few characters that said lines differently, a few XP points for your trouble, and the illusion of consequence in almost all cases.

I hope that Bioware make some Paragon actions result in negative consequences but I'm almost positive that anything they do won't be anything other than the illusion they are used to providing.

Basically the only game I've seen do consequences right is The Witcher 2, though I admittedly don't have that much experience compared to some.

[incinerator950]

Last I checked Fable 3 punished you if you didn't know how to build real estate and you did an all good hero. Army of Two TFD's Good ending involves killing your own partner, which turned out to be under the threat of false detonation of a nuclear bomb. Even better, its to satisfy the whim of a madman who would then order his men to retreat, only to show the player/s that it was a hoax.

[ArkkAngel007]

Both sides get both huge rewards and huge backfires in ME3, due to past decisions in the games.

[Hunter of Legends]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Both sides get both huge rewards and huge backfires in ME3, due to past decisions in the games.

Not so much.

[JBONE27]

Two things.

1. I think it's kind of stupid to have a DLC (which I'm not sure how many people actually bought) with an uncertain outcome to have such a major impact on the story... It would be a lot better if it were the Rachni Queen or that ****y asari who helped out Saren and the guy who created Grunt.

2. You renegades keep saying that not being Machiavellian (which is the best explanation I've had for why people choose to be renegades... other than just being sociopaths), should bite you in the ass. Perhaps you're compensating some insecurities about your own life choices.

[Lord Jaric]

Why do people care how others play so much? Just play the game and have fun.

[Adanu]

JBONE27 wrote...

Two things.

1. I think it's kind of stupid to have a DLC (which I'm not sure how many people actually bought) with an uncertain outcome to have such a major impact on the story... It would be a lot better if it were the Rachni Queen or that ****y asari who helped out Saren and the guy who created Grunt.

2. You renegades keep saying that not being Machiavellian (which is the best explanation I've had for why people choose to be renegades... other than just being sociopaths), should bite you in the ass. Perhaps you're compensating some insecurities about your own life choices.

<_<

So now it's insecurities with you people. You can go **** yourself.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

You are so soft and Sissie ... The security of the Galaxy is at stake, and you still want to be pure!

[BlueMagitek]

JBONE27 wrote...

Two things.

1. I think it's kind of stupid to have a DLC (which I'm not sure how many people actually bought) with an uncertain outcome to have such a major impact on the story... It would be a lot better if it were the Rachni Queen or that ****y asari who helped out Saren and the guy who created Grunt.

2. You renegades keep saying that not being Machiavellian (which is the best explanation I've had for why people choose to be renegades... other than just being sociopaths), should bite you in the ass. Perhaps you're compensating some insecurities about your own life choices.

Well, for non PC anyway~.
http://masseffect.bi...nthesky_pc.html

Oh?  Insecurities? Oh my.  I mean, heaven forbid we actually find logic in not letting the super aggressive bug queen go unmolested, with only her word (extorted by literally holding her life in your hands), or keeping a base full of advanced technology (that actually creates the enemy that we have no idea how to fight against).  But please, believe whatever you wish.

[Not the Droid]

You know I figure a Real Hardass renegade would care less how anyone plays a game, nor spend a second of his or her time thinking wishing some horror would befall someone else.... Cause well there busy being the Horror befalling someone....

Course being the weepy, soft hearted Paragon type I smile nod my head and pretend to care, even though I don't.

Hey good post Op, and to be honest I was hoping(and still am) it will bite both ways a bit more myself
........
You Are
What you do
When it counts
(John Steakley the book Armor)

[Arppis]

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

You are so soft and Sissie ... The security of the Galaxy is at stake, and you still want to be pure!

Says guy who supports Illusive man. "Pure", heh.

For me, it's about amassing as many troops under my banner as possible. Always been about that, since you know Reapers! Renegade options tend to steer away from that most of the time.

But again, this is just how I play the game.

[Lotion Soronarr]

InvincibleHero wrote...

No need to be insultive towards paragons. I play both sides and the middle to experience the whole spectrum of what the game offers. I do agree that paragon is without meaningful consequence so far. It is something almost never done in media; punishing the good deed. I think it is hard to write something that does because usually failure is catastrophic and games are designed to have viable paths to the end.

Games used to be all about killing off the player just play King's Quest sometime. People don't want to get frustrated and spend many hours retrying the same scenario over and over. Paying customers have made that point clear and they listened. So now there are less gotcha deaths in games thankfully.

Imagine if they made imediate distatsteful consequences for a paragon action what do you think happens? They will reload and choose something else. It is better for the game maker to not put in any overtly obvious punishment situations. After all very few would sacrifice their LI to save three random civilians. Maybe someone colud roleplaying in a game but in real life that person is one in 10 million that would give up their son or daughter or wife or husband or lover for a stranger.

So you say. And I disagree. If peopel want to reload it's their right to do so. That too is part fo the overall gaming experience.
The older games weren't afraid to let the player fail, and fail spectaculary. These new games you cannot truly fail no matter what option you choose. Why not?

And, speaking of morals and messages - games have grown as a medium. I don't see any need to be anvilicious about morals or any "messages". Not only is it insulting to the players, it's insulting in general. Adults can handle mature content.

[Farbautisonn]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Most Paragon decisions are about trust, the Renegade option often involves not trusting that individual. If the Paragon always receives the free pass with no consequences, the Renegade decision becomes invalid and there's no point in doing it.

Which is exactly how ME3 handled it, though I assume nobody really cares at this point as most (not all) of you only want happy endings and would metagame regardless.

I care:(

-If we get the "...and there was much rejoicing and free muffins..." ending Ill puke all over my screen.

The reapers have attacked. Not only us but apparently the batarians as well. This means likely more places have been hit. If the destruction on earth is going to be anything symptomatic of the destruction of the rest of the places, then even a "here and now" victory by the hand of god, is still going to leave the galaxy in a state of turmoil, economic recession, rebuilding and powerplays to ensurer galaxywide hegemony.

Major players on the political scene will be gone or weakened. And if the history of earth is anything to go by, some people will smell the blood in the water and try to establish supremacy over others. That spells reapers being beaten, but galactic civil war ensuing.

We are ****ed. The only thing that matters is how we soften the blow.

[Conduit0]

I think this thread is pretty funny, it basicly boils down to a few renegade players being mad because they've realized that spending the last two games killing or pissing off every potential ally is finally going to come back to bite them in the ass.

As for me, I plan to make multiple play throughs as both Renegade and Paragon to try out various scenerios.

[Ghost Yeti]

Are we still making "PARAGONS ARE TOOO SOFT THEY NEED TO SUFFER" threads............really?, enough already we get it .

[Gruzmog]

Conduit0 wrote...

I think this thread is pretty funny, it basicly boils down to a few renegade players being mad because they've realized that spending the last two games killing or pissing off every potential ally is finally going to come back to bite them in the ass.

As for me, I plan to make multiple play throughs as both Renegade and Paragon to try out various scenerios.

The title of this thread didn't do the OP a service i'll give you that, but I am getting more annoyed each time I read a "you renegade players just boned yourselves" replies.

For crying out loud I only have 2 paragon characters (with both about 2-3 major renegade decisions) But I hope atleast some of the paragon stuff comes back for me in a negative way that forces me to deal with the consequences. I thought I made the right call at the time but I wasn't sure and I hope that is reflected.

Modifié par Gruzmog, 28 février 2012 - 08:39 .

[Farbautisonn]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...

Major players on the political scene will be gone or weakened. And if the history of earth is anything to go by, some people will smell the blood in the water and try to establish supremacy over others. That spells reapers being beaten, but galactic civil war ensuing.

We are ****ed. The only thing that matters is how we soften the blow.

Not to mention the rush to reverse engineer Reaper technology. Whoever first masters, say, indoctrination, will have a powerful tool indeed. Society as a whole will inevitably be shapedy it, perhaps in frightening ways.

There's no way to avoid it.

-I agree completely.

[Fixers0]

It's interesting that the OP Assume you can't be a paragon player if you sacrificed the Hostages.

[Arrtis]

If it makes anyone feel better the paragon decision by allowing the asari scientist survive the nuke at sarens base is suggested to have blowback one day in ME2...

[Femlob]

In a morality system as limited as the one we're forced to deal with in the ME series (as per usual, Planescape: Torment is the only game that got it right - a moment of silence for Black Isle, please), Paragon versus Renegade boils down to empathy versus practicality. Which is favored depends on the developer in question - and I think we've all been around BioWare long enough to know the answer to that one.

If you want shades of gray (or rather, any gray at all) and meaningful consequences, you'll want to hire Obsidian. Nobody else bothers anymore.