94 réponses à ce sujet

[Lycidas]

Giving feedback and voicing your concerns based on things that you can actually experience withing the demo is fine. Asking the developers to release a day one patch to fix "GLARING balance issues" that might not even exist in the final build is not. I'm not saying you did that.

[TeaL3af]

It's more like: "This is what could be improved on based on the demo". If BioWare have already fixed it then yay, but if they haven't made any changes to the unbalanced classes the game still be unbalanced on launch.

[Lycidas]

It's not like there is anything going to change now. But for us seeing the whole picture will make discussing balance problems a whole lot easier.
What if the whole Reaper faction for example would have a lot of HP but no protections whatsoever. That would hugely favor the Human Adept or Quarian Engineer. What if the now missing weapon unlocks leave the pistols way behind?

[OneDrunkMonk]

I would certainly say not all race classes are equal at equal levels. For example, human female Sentinel doesn't seem to have a terribly effective role beyond pure stand back and support, and the Tech shields only offer maybe a 15% buff tops. Turian Sentinel is a bloody tank and can last long enough to take out multiple enemies and rescue falling squad members in the midst of fire. Not to mention Overload on turrets and such.

Modifié par OneDrunkMonk, 27 février 2012 - 06:45 .

[LadyAlekto]

Lycidas wrote...

TeaL3af wrote...

Hartmann262 wrote...

There are people that seriously believe that having both stasis and the ability to chain infinite ranged biotic explosions is actually fine on a single character?

lol

There are people that don't actually believe in overpowered or underpowered as concepts. Which to me is like not believeing in gravity.

Some people just know out of experience that this "balance" discussion will never end. Things might get nerfed others buffed just so people can start the same wining again with a new target. At the end the tings are going to be more messed up than they were at the beginning or every class just plays like a copy of the next one. It happened before and it will happen again.

+1 and heavily agreed

[Lycidas]

OneDrunkMonk wrote...

I would certainly say not all race classes are equal at equal levels. For example, human female Sentinel doesn't seem to have a terribly effective role beyond pure stand back and support, and the Tech shields only offer maybe a 15% buff tops. Turian Sentinel is a bloody tank and can last long enough to take out multiple enemies and rescue falling squad members in the midst of fire. Not to mention Overload on turrets and such.

The human Sentinel has Warp and Throw. Do I really need to say more?

Modifié par Lycidas, 27 février 2012 - 06:49 .

[Ludica]

ShadedPhoenix wrote...

Lycidas wrote...

TeaL3af wrote...

Hartmann262 wrote...

There are people that seriously believe that having both stasis and the ability to chain infinite ranged biotic explosions is actually fine on a single character?

lol

There are people that don't actually believe in overpowered or underpowered as concepts. Which to me is like not believeing in gravity.

Some people just know out of experience that this "balance" discussion will never end. Things might get nerfed others buffed just so people can start the same wining again with a new target. At the end the tings are going to be more messed up than they were at the beginning or every class just plays like a copy of the next one. It happened before and it will happen again.

+1 and heavily agreed

Please, this is not a "thread to show off how i don't care", nobody makes you read this. If you want an example of balance working relatively well, think Blizzard in their Warcraft III days. A RTS with completely diverse fractions could be far worse than it was, but Blizzard managed to keep it reasonable. Not perfect, but both the balance and the diversity were intact.

And they didn't have a social network where fans can voice their concerns and they can actually read said concerns daily.

[Blissey1]

Lycidas wrote...

OneDrunkMonk wrote...

I would certainly say not all race classes are equal at equal levels. For example, human female Sentinel doesn't seem to have a terribly effective role beyond pure stand back and support, and the Tech shields only offer maybe a 15% buff tops. Turian Sentinel is a bloody tank and can last long enough to take out multiple enemies and rescue falling squad members in the midst of fire. Not to mention Overload on turrets and such.

The human Sentinel has Warp and Throw. Do I really need to say more?

yeah, why is the human sentinel trying to be an adept?

[nestum]

with asari adept, 100k plus on gold is almost certain if you manage to survive....with my fellow human soldier, I can only guaranty 60k plus...however, playing with the soldier is for me, a much grateful and enjoyable experience...

[Lycidas]

Blissey1 wrote...

Lycidas wrote...

OneDrunkMonk wrote...

I would certainly say not all race classes are equal at equal levels. For example, human female Sentinel doesn't seem to have a terribly effective role beyond pure stand back and support, and the Tech shields only offer maybe a 15% buff tops. Turian Sentinel is a bloody tank and can last long enough to take out multiple enemies and rescue falling squad members in the midst of fire. Not to mention Overload on turrets and such.

The human Sentinel has Warp and Throw. Do I really need to say more?

yeah, why is the human sentinel trying to be an adept?

Yeah, whatever your point might be...?

[Blissey1]

Lycidas wrote...

Blissey1 wrote...

Lycidas wrote...

OneDrunkMonk wrote...

I would certainly say not all race classes are equal at equal levels. For example, human female Sentinel doesn't seem to have a terribly effective role beyond pure stand back and support, and the Tech shields only offer maybe a 15% buff tops. Turian Sentinel is a bloody tank and can last long enough to take out multiple enemies and rescue falling squad members in the midst of fire. Not to mention Overload on turrets and such.

The human Sentinel has Warp and Throw. Do I really need to say more?

yeah, why is the human sentinel trying to be an adept?

Yeah, whatever your point might be...?

my point is that the human sentinel is not balanced becasue to reach peak efficiency, it has to play like an entirely different class. That's bad.

[Lycidas]

Just to get some things straight. Some random facts people seem to mostly forget when talking about the "OP" Asari Adept.
- The Asari has 125 HP and 125 shields less than the HA (I would not call that just a bit)
- The Asari actually loses a bit of her Berriers whenever she dodges
- The Asari heavy melee is AoE but IMHO pretty weak and renders you immobile and vulnerable for quite long
- Not everybody uses bubble Stasis
- The HA's Singularity on 200% cooldown reduction can be used every 1.34s Stasis only every 2.22s
- The final evolution of Singularity seems broken right now (I have yet to see it explode or expand)
- Warp and Throw in combination can be used to explode any target but Guardians so far (yes even Atlases or Turrets) yet nerfing Stasis is anything people seem to come up with when talking about the Asari. Just changing Throw for Pull would tone the class down quite a bit without taking away they key power it was designed around.

Modifié par Lycidas, 27 février 2012 - 07:34 .

[Lycidas]

Blissey1 wrote...

Lycidas wrote...

Blissey1 wrote...

Lycidas wrote...

OneDrunkMonk wrote...

I would certainly say not all race classes are equal at equal levels. For example, human female Sentinel doesn't seem to have a terribly effective role beyond pure stand back and support, and the Tech shields only offer maybe a 15% buff tops. Turian Sentinel is a bloody tank and can last long enough to take out multiple enemies and rescue falling squad members in the midst of fire. Not to mention Overload on turrets and such.

The human Sentinel has Warp and Throw. Do I really need to say more?

yeah, why is the human sentinel trying to be an adept?

Yeah, whatever your point might be...?

my point is that the human sentinel is not balanced becasue to reach peak efficiency, it has to play like an entirely different class. That's bad.

That's entirely your opinion.
The Sentinel is a mix of tech and biotic powers. Warp and Throw are biotic powers Tech Armor is...you see. There are only so many powers you can combine and this setup is actually quite strong.

[Ludica]

Lycidas wrote...

Just to get some things straight. Some random facts people seem to mostly forget when talking about the "OP" Asari Adept.
- The Asari has 125 HP and 125 shields less than the HA (I would not call that just a bit)
- The Asari actually loses a bit of her Berriers whenever she dodges
- The Asari heavy melee is AoE but IMHO pretty weak and renders you immobile and vulnerable for quite long
- Not everybody uses bubble Stasis
- The HA's Singularity on 200% cooldown reduction can be used every 1.34s Stasis only every 2.22s
- The final evolution of Singularity seems broken right now (I have yet to see it explode or expand)
- Warp and Throw in combination can be used to explode any target but Guardians so far (yes even Atlases or Turrets) yet nerfing Stasis is anything people seem to come up with when talking about the Asari. Just changing Throw for Pull would tone the class down quite a bit without taking away they key power it was designed around.

 - V
 - If you get hit with an asari adept, a class in no way designed to take hits, you're doing something wrong. And that little extra health does not save the HA from being roflstomped by anyone. It's not a tank, for goddess's sake.
 - Why use melee when you have stasis + headshot or stasis + boom? Why are you even fighting at extremely close range with such a flail character?
 - Not everybody uses sniper rifle on infiltrator, not everybody uses Vanguard charge on Vanguard. Doesn't mean the strategy is worth it.
 - The HA's Singularity is ignored by most enemies in the demo, and even so, it's unreliable and obstructs headshots.
 - Details? I had it leveled on explode, never helped.
 - Stasis + headshot? Stasis + infiltrator's headshot?

 

[Lycidas]

Ludica wrote...
- If you get hit with an asari adept, a class in no way designed to take hits, you're doing something wrong.

You're saying you never get hit playing the class? Just the time out of cover it takes to deploy Stasis on one target depletes my Barriers to 0 quite often.

Ludica wrote...
And that little extra health does not save the HA from being roflstomped by anyone. It's not a tank, for goddess's sake.

It is the difference between getting that extra 2m to the next cover or not...

Ludica wrote...
- Why use melee when you have stasis + headshot or stasis + boom? Why are you even fighting at extremely close range with such a flail character?

Why use it? Because it is fun, because it brings more points for your team? Why having it when you cannot use it?

Ludica wrote...
- Not everybody uses sniper rifle on infiltrator, not everybody uses Vanguard charge on Vanguard. Doesn't mean the strategy is worth it.

Well I find it very well worth it. And no I did not choose it by mistake.

Ludica wrote...
- The HA's Singularity is ignored by most enemies in the demo, and even so, it's unreliable and obstructs headshots.

That is true yet there are hardly any treads asking to fix/improve Singularity. All people care for is nerfing Stasis.

Ludica wrote...
- Details? I had it leveled on explode, never helped.

Like I said as far as I can tell the final evolution of Singularity does nothing at the moment. I have not seen any confirmation on it though.

Ludica wrote...
- Stasis + headshot? Stasis + infiltrator's headshot?

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here.

Modifié par Lycidas, 27 février 2012 - 08:03 .

[Ludica]

Lycidas wrote...

Ludica wrote...
- If you get hit with an asari adept, a class in no way designed to take hits, you're doing something wrong.

You're saying you never get hit playing the class? Just the time out of cover it takes to deploy Stasis on one target depletes my Barriers to 0 quite often.

Ludica wrote...
And that little extra health does not save the HA from being roflstomped by anyone. It's not a tank, for goddess's sake.

It is the difference between getting that extra 2m to the next cover or not...

Ludica wrote...
- Why use melee when you have stasis + headshot or stasis + boom? Why are you even fighting at extremely close range with such a flail character?

Why use it? Because it is fun, because it brings more points for your team? Why having it when you cannot use it?

Ludica wrote...
- Not everybody uses sniper rifle on infiltrator, not everybody uses Vanguard charge on Vanguard. Doesn't mean the strategy is worth it.

Well I find it very well worth it. And no I did not choose it by mistake.

Ludica wrote...
- The HA's Singularity is ignored by most enemies in the demo, and even so, it's unreliable and obstructs headshots.

That is true yet there are hardly any treads asking to fix/improve Singularity. All people care for is nerfing Stasis.

Ludica wrote...
- Details? I had it leveled on explode, never helped.

Like I said as far as I can tell the final evolution of Singularity does nothing at the moment. I have not seen any confirmation on it though.

Ludica wrote...
- Stasis + headshot? Stasis + infiltrator's headshot?

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here.

1)When i get hit, i call it my mistake, and never actually rely on my character taking hits. You imply HA can do that.
2)On Gold an extra microsecond won't atone for my sins, so to speak.
3)More points than a full damage headshot? I doubt it. I can stick a Katana shotgun on her, charge into the enemy, yell curse words in the mic, and get myself killed in a way that makes the most reckless of Vanguards look paranoid, and then what?
4)I don't see it. It may be there, but even without the bubble Stasis is more userful than Singularity. Granted, significantly less so. 
5)Does the class buff suggestions thread have none? I thought there was a post or two. I'm fine if singularity gets buffed and HA becomes something more than a cruel joke.
6)Well, the explode thing causes damage after ages when it explodes. To already long-dead enemies. 
7)I'm trying to say that nerfing warp + throw does not make her any less userful.

[nicethugbert]

I think the game is fine as is. I'm having fun.

[Lycidas]

I'm not going to try to win an internet discussion over this. We are going to have to agree to disagree I guess.
If 250 more HP is noting to you and you don't ever get hit on gold than there is little we can argue about here.

Ludica wrote...

7)I'm trying to say that nerfing warp + throw does not make her any less userful.

This is rediculously wrong. If you don't know how good Warp + Throw actually is you know little about the class. I'm sorry.

[Roros5e]

I feel balance is an issue in singleplayer/coop when certain classes, gear, or intended playstyles are outright inferior to others. It's not as fun playing a certain class when you know you "should" be picking the "better" one to play effectively.

Instinctively, we want to win. If there's a discrepancy between playing for fun and playing to win, I feel an adjustment is in order.

[TexasToast712]

The game is balanced other than the obvious exploits like the Nova cancel glitch. This thread needs to die.

[Ludica]

Lycidas wrote...

I'm not going to try to win an internet discussion over this. We are going to have to agree to disagree I guess.
If 250 more HP is noting to you and you don't ever get hit on gold than there is little we can argue about here.

Ludica wrote...

7)I'm trying to say that nerfing warp + throw does not make her any less userful.

This is rediculously wrong. If you don't know how good Warp + Throw actually is you know little about the class. I'm sorry.

1)Well if you insist on assuming adepts can be tanks, i won't argue with you. To me, it seems incredibly misjudging of adept's purpose.
2)I'm sorry, but when you target for a nerf a strategy that is good, but doesn't make the class better than the others(human sentinel has warp + throw. So? Sure, she does a better job at biotics than human adept, but everybody does.), why do you tell me i know little? Just like Warp + Throw doesn't make human sentinel overpowered, it's not a target to be nerfed here.

[The_mango55]

Singularity should be more like it was in ME1. It should affect enemies in a HUGE area, and have a pretty large cooldown.

It's the Adept's unique ability, it needs something to make it better than Pull.

Modifié par The_mango55, 27 février 2012 - 08:32 .

[Ludica]

The_mango55 wrote...

Singularity should be more like it was in ME1. It should affect enemies in a HUGE area, and have a pretty large cooldown.

It's the Adept's unique ability, it needs something to make it better than Pull.

It shouldn't be completely ignored by 80% of the enemies. It'll still be inferior due to random drifting instead of perfectly convenient standstill, but it won't be useless.

[dw99027]

Unfortunately, controls are not tight enough. If they were, classes like Human Adept could deftly maneuver around the battlefield to where their skills would be of use. Going for cover yet involuntarily rolling right into a Phantom, having to stop sprinting to re-center the camera behind your character( seriously, that's very annoying), etc... CC classes can lock things shooting at them.

[dnaxv]

 I recently completed a Gold run with some friends. There were two Asari Adepts, an engineer (forget which race he was running as that game) and myself (human shotgun infiltrator). We were on the white map and had an interesting strategy. The two Asari's watched the helipad above, and the engineer and infiltrator watched the tunnels below. We were doing every bit as well as they were. At no point did our duo feel underpowered, even as we delt with numerous Atlases, Phantoms, and Centaurians/Guardians/Nemesises at once. Not saying to try and brag or anything, but even though we were "inferior" classes, we were able to hold our own just as well as two "OP" classes.