980 réponses à ce sujet

[Sporothrix]

PXXL wrote...

Ahhh, you were worried about BW not getting more potential customers.. silly me i thought you were trying to convince us that your "realistic presentation of female " was the only way a military woman could look.

One comes from another. Unrealistic female portrayal made as fanservice for men of a type that calls women they don't find attractive as "gorillaz" results in a fact that most women wouldn't want to play such thing.

[Arppis]

tmp7704 wrote...

Hassu wrote...

But regardless of what you may think, that is exactly what a fit woman looks like.

Goodness, no.





i'm sorry, but no sane person would say that's "exactly what a fit woman looks like". Mind you, it's not the arms people are fixating on that's the problem here, but... just ugh, pretty much everything else.

She may have bit more definition on arms, but that really puts it to the perspective.

[Hassu]

[quote]misoretu9 wrote...

That's some serious allegation. So unless you can prove it, I consider it as a pitiful use of personal attack.
[/quote]

If you want to sit there and look like a hypocrit, by all means.


[quote]  
"Because I say so". 
[/quote]

No, because you wish to believe otherwise. I honestly don't care what Shepard should ideally look like to you, but do not assume that you represent the majority in this. The problem does not stem from what the developers designed her to look like. I've seen far worse (Halo Reach comes to mind) when it comes to the design of female characters in video games. But complaining about this is both pathetic and shallow, especially for a video game where Shepard shares the same body type with almost every other character in the game (a few companion characters being the exclusion), and I'm talking about both sexes here.

[quote] 
Please. I even have friends in military. None of them looks so weak and anorexic. Besides, Shepard is not just ANY soldier.  And BTW, you didn't keep attention to ME codex. Alliance soldiers get gene therapy that IIRC improves their muscle mass among the others. Judging from an ingame example of universally overgrown men (even Joker!) and all those women, they give that only to the former.[/quote] 
[/quote]

Two things. First, you easily confuse weight loss with anorexic disorder. If this was true, a lot of women in the world would have this disorder. And I mean, A LOT. Strength is also not defined by muscularity alone. You don't just develop big muscles by being in the military, it is something you have to actively work for every day. And if you stop, your muscles will disappear. This also leads me to the second thing; women do not develop big muscles. Even if you improve a woman's muscle mass, it doesn't mean she get big in any particular way, if at all.

But that's me done with this. Feel free to continue at your own leisure.

Modifié par Hassu, 28 février 2012 - 12:55 .

[RyuujinZERO]

tl;dr - game needs a weight slider.

...then people'd complain her ****** were too big or too small like in skyrim where a weight slider exists



Oh, right. Pre-order cancelled (Not really, I like skinnyshep, but I'm not allowed to because it horribly offends the feminist population that men might have preferences that are not them.)

Modifié par RyuujinZERO, 28 février 2012 - 01:00 .

[PXXL]

misoretu9 wrote...

PXXL wrote...

Ahhh, you were worried about BW not getting more potential customers.. silly me i thought you were trying to convince us that your "realistic presentation of female " was the only way a military woman could look.

One comes from another. Unrealistic female portrayal made as fanservice for men of a type that calls women they don't find attractive as "gorillaz" results in a fact that most women wouldn't want to play such thing.

It's evident im talking to a butt hurt female gamer.

It's my fault cause im a 28 year old Male gamer that likes well shaped hips and doesnt like to see Vega's arms on FemShep, that other women don't want to play the gorilla body type FemShep... spin it like you want it.

I don't like skinny girls FYI, but i bet i can't convince you of anything. You have your mind set on this and have the RL friends to prove that you HAVE to be BUFFED to the max!! to be a military woman.

I'm glad BioWare doesn't listen to everything everyone has to say.

[Hassu]

tmp7704 wrote...

Hassu wrote...

But regardless of what you may think, that is exactly what a fit woman looks like.

Goodness, no.





i'm sorry, but no sane person would say that's "exactly what a fit woman looks like". Mind you, it's not the arms people are fixating on that's the problem here, but... just ugh, pretty much everything else.

When you put it up like this, then yes. I can see where people are coming from. But honestly? Mass Effect is not photo-realistic. Few games actually portray men or women correctly when it comes to proportion. Whenever I played the game, I never had the issue that Shepard was too thin. I never put any notice to it. But the woman in the picture, I can identify right away as being too skinny for her own good. But then again, I don't play Mass Effect to watch Shepard in a terrible dress and look like a real life lady. If we really have to nitpick like this, why don't we also complain about the terrible character creator? It's hardly very realistic, and often, you get some really corny looking Shepards. 

Regardless, I'm just going to say; poor Salarians.

PXXL wrote...

It's evident im talking to a butt hurt female gamer.

It's my fault cause im a 28 year old Male gamer that likes well shaped hips and doesnt like to see Vega's arms on FemShep, that other women don't want to play the gorilla body type FemShep... spin it like you want it.

I don't like skinny girls FYI, but i bet i can't convince you of anything. You have your mind set on this and have the RL friends to prove that you HAVE to be BUFFED to the max!! to be a military woman.

I'm glad BioWare doesn't listen to everything everyone has to say.

 

Unfortunately, these are the people our world consists of. 

Modifié par Hassu, 28 février 2012 - 01:03 .

[Kisarabi]

tobynator89 wrote...

Ok, I will for the last time give a summary of my views on femsheps build.

Having served in the norwegian army as a rifleman in a mech infantry platoon, I had the pleasure of serving in the same squad as a female MG gunner. This is a girl that carried a 40 KG backpack, a 10 kg MG3 and 6 kg of 7.62x51 ammo up the longest and steepest f***ing mountain hill in any norwegian military base complex (1 hour constant march continous 35 degree slope) in -40 degrees celcius. She could handle the recoil when firing her mg standing up And I swear she was about as skinny as shep is depicted here. She was also COMPETENT at her job as an infantryman, something our sergeant said he'd never seen in a female soldier.

Because military service does not neccesarily help you build muscles unless you got a lot of spare fat, spec ops actually LOOSE 15 kg of muscle mass during their training regimen due to very little nutrition and overtraining. Many of the big muscly guys actually noticed that as well while i was in.

What it does do is giving you mental and physical stamina, and lots of it, allowing to push more out of what you already have. We call it being indian strong as opposed to bodybuilder strong with tendons and muscles like steel wire.

People need to pay attention to this. I personally am fine with her body, and many women have a similar shape. Including ones in the military.

[LetMeW1n]

The trend of male teens calling all kinds of girls "fat" and having anorexic fantasies is long over, lol.. That was just the facade adopted by the last teen generation..

What's all that about anorexia anyway.. Don't know any people who have it, but just in my school there are already plenty of frail and 'thin' looking girls who surprised me producing several pull-ups(4-6) at one go regularly(they also did lots of cardio, as with all of them, lol).

Hell, I've got this dude friend who looks perfectly ordinary and had very little muscle definition to speak of, maybe just a little size. And then he went on to win a version of Iron Man in our school, which is basically doing military intervals repeatedly until the last man standing. Speaks volumes about his full body endurance, eh. And he does what I'd like to call "flying" pull-ups, Consistently at least 20 reps each time, maximum 30. No kidding, and he was 15. Of course he might be a very special case, yeah...

Don't know how that'd contribute to this discussion, but there u go

Modifié par LetMeW1n, 28 février 2012 - 01:06 .

[Sporothrix]

RyuujinZERO wrote...

Oh, right. Pre-order cancelled (Not really, I like skinnyshep, but I'm not allowed to because it horribly offends the feminist population that men might have preferences that are not them.)

Huh, now there's going to be ranting about feminism because female and male players don't like unrealistic look of female _player character_? And yeah, you're so terribly persecuted here, it's like no female character appeal to stereotypical male standards of beauty...

[tmp7704]

Hassu wrote...

When you put it up like this, then yes. I can see where people are coming from. But honestly? Mass Effect is not photo-realistic. Few games actually portray men or women correctly when it comes to proportion.

That's granted. I think what people are taking issue with (and rather rightly so) is that these "deviations from realism" so to speak are applied differently based to characters' gender. The men are exaggerated to look powerful, while the women aren't (and even the supehero comic books, horrible as they can be, manage to do better job here)  So i can definitely see how some people could get upset over it and ask "Hey, if you make male Shepard look like that, why won't you make female Shepard equally impressive?" It just isn't fun to experience what may very much feel like second class treatment.

[LetMeW1n]

^Lmao, haha. Why do people always like to exaggerate the severity of another's situation..? o.o Does it really carry across your point better or something..

[WitchKing410]

 All this complaining about Shepard's body type reminded me of this article: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1225912/Combat-Barbie-Soldier-new-Miss-England-Linford-Christies-niece-hands-crown-nightclub-brawl.html Shepard doesn't look too far off from Corporal Hodge by my estimation. I don't see what the big fuss is over. 

[Monochrome Wench]

LetMeW1n wrote...

The trend of male teens calling all kinds of girls "fat" and having anorexic fantasies is long over, lol.. That was just the facade adopted by the last teen generation..

What's all that about anorexia anyway.. Don't know any people who have it, but just in my school there are already plenty of frail and 'thin' looking girls who surprised me producing several pull-ups(4-6) at one go regularly(they also did lots of cardio, as with all of them, lol).

Hell, I've got this dude friend who looks perfectly ordinary and had very little muscle definition to speak of, maybe just a little size. And then he went on to win a version of Iron Man in our school, which is basically doing military intervals repeatedly until the last man standing. Speaks volumes about his full body endurance, eh. And he does what I'd like to call "flying" pull-ups, Consistently at least 20 reps each time, maximum 30. No kidding, and he was 15. Of course he might be a very special case, yeah...

Don't know how that'd contribute to this discussion, but there u go

Pull ups are 'misleading' trying to gauge someones strength. The lighter you are (as girls are) the less muscle strength you need to pull yourself up. And of course the ratio of muscle strength to muscle size is far from linear. Not that this has much relevance to the overall discussion, just thought I'd point that out.

[PXXL]

tmp7704 wrote...

Hassu wrote...

When you put it up like this, then yes. I can see where people are coming from. But honestly? Mass Effect is not photo-realistic. Few games actually portray men or women correctly when it comes to proportion.

That's granted. I think what people are taking issue with (and rather rightly so) is that these "deviations from realism" so to speak are applied differently based to characters' gender. The men are exaggerated to look powerful, while the women aren't (and even the supehero comic books, horrible as they can be, manage to do better job here)  So i can definitely see how some people could get upset over it and ask "Hey, if you make male Shepard look like that, why won't you make female Shepard equally impressive?" It just isn't fun to experience what may very much feel like second class treatment.

For real? you are such a victim .. .. makes me even more sick then those pictures.

[Eski.Moe]

Don't all the women share the same skeleton in ME? As in, possessing the same body.

[Sporothrix]

PXXL wrote...


It's evident im talking to a butt hurt female gamer.

It's my fault cause im a 28 year old Male gamer that likes well shaped hips and doesnt like to see Vega's arms on FemShep, that other women don't want to play the gorilla body type FemShep... spin it like you want it.

I don't like skinny girls FYI, but i bet i can't convince you of anything. You have your mind set on this and have the RL friends to prove that you HAVE to be BUFFED to the max!! to be a military woman.

Well, pretty pitiful that you are only capable of such cheap offends, but since you've proven with first post that you're just random misogynist who thinks he has the right to call women which looks he doesn't like as apes, I didn't expect anything more from you.

And it's pretty funny that you try to draw the matter as if it's only either that anorexic look or body building. There are different levels of fit-ness. I wouldn't say that any of my friends is "buffed to the max", but none of them looks so unrealistically thin and weak as femShep.

Modifié par misoretu9, 28 février 2012 - 01:20 .

[LetMeW1n]

WitchKing410 wrote...

 All this complaining about Shepard's body type reminded me of this article: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1225912/Combat-Barbie-Soldier-new-Miss-England-Linford-Christies-niece-hands-crown-nightclub-brawl.html Shepard doesn't look too far off from Corporal Hodge by my estimation. I don't see what the big fuss is over. 

^Doesn't say if she's a good soldier or not, lol. But nice addition.

Unlike bringing in the subject of male stereotypes, feminist agenda, politics and all the other crap. What's with the seriousness here? Crap's being argued over countless times and with much fancier but useless language. I don't think BSN has sufficient intellectual maturity(neither do I) to be debating that sort of stuff without degenerating to hate or some other idiotic conclusion so I'd keep quiet about that. 

[Hassu]

tmp7704 wrote...

Hassu wrote...

When you put it up like this, then yes. I can see where people are coming from. But honestly? Mass Effect is not photo-realistic. Few games actually portray men or women correctly when it comes to proportion.

That's granted. I think what people are taking issue with (and rather rightly so) is that these "deviations from realism" so to speak are applied differently based to characters' gender. The men are exaggerated to look powerful, while the women aren't (and even the supehero comic books, horrible as they can be, manage to do better job here)  So i can definitely see how some people could get upset over it and ask "Hey, if you make male Shepard look like that, why won't you make female Shepard equally impressive?" It just isn't fun to experience what may very much feel like second class treatment.

I don't see how it's second class treatment when both sexes are made to look "sexy". Ideal men and women have always been portrayed this way, even by the Ancient Greeks who worshipped the body. It's hardly inappropriate, even in today's world when a lot of men and women gladly pursue these ideals (some to the extremes).

Superhero comics are just incredibly bad at sexualising everything because of the audiance they're trying to attract. Games also have to try to attract a similar audiance (primarily male), so you see a lot of the same (very big and strong men, very small and curvy women), but in the case of Mass Effect, it's not really that rampant. There are a lot of games that are way worse with it. But in essence, can you really blame them? It's not only because they try to cater to a wide male audiance, but it also comes down to biology and human anatomy. Men's muscles are naturally just bigger and have more room to grow compared to a woman. Even without steroids, a man's muscles can get very big, while a woman just cannot get anywhere near that point without getting pumped with testosterone.

But that's really besides the point.

The point is that true gender equalism is not possible based on the vast differences between male and female. But the social context behind it is only half of it. The other half is simply just our biology. The only gender equality we can really have is to leave every door open to every person regardless of gender. But even then, each gender has certain characteristics that make them attractive to the opposite gender, and are thus highlighted more in media or as a ideal (Ancient Greeks, again).

But as I said, I can see where people are coming from. But getting militant about it and coming with poor "alternatives" like a lot of people in this thread have done, is really not the way. A BioWare representative already stated his opinion on this matter, and despite what a lot of people may want to think, he is right. And in the context of the game, it's hard to really make a real comparison because of the differing proportions. Hell, it's even difficult to compare the proportions on people from different paintings by different artists. So Mass Effect is hardly an unusual case.

LetMeW1n wrote...

WitchKing410 wrote...

 All this complaining about Shepard's body type reminded me of this article: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1225912/Combat-Barbie-Soldier-new-Miss-England-Linford-Christies-niece-hands-crown-nightclub-brawl.html Shepard doesn't look too far off from Corporal Hodge by my estimation. I don't see what the big fuss is over. 

^Doesn't say if she's a good soldier or not, lol. But nice addition.

Unlike bringing in the subject of male stereotypes, feminist agenda, politics and all the other crap. What's with the seriousness here? Crap's being argued over countless times and with much fancier but useless language. I don't think BSN has sufficient intellectual maturity(neither do I) to be debating that sort of stuff without degenerating to hate or some other idiotic conclusion so I'd keep quiet about that. 

 

The internet rarely does, haha.

Modifié par Hassu, 28 février 2012 - 01:32 .

[PXXL]

misoretu9 wrote...

PXXL wrote...


It's evident im talking to a butt hurt female gamer.

It's my fault cause im a 28 year old Male gamer that likes well shaped hips and doesnt like to see Vega's arms on FemShep, that other women don't want to play the gorilla body type FemShep... spin it like you want it.

I don't like skinny girls FYI, but i bet i can't convince you of anything. You have your mind set on this and have the RL friends to prove that you HAVE to be BUFFED to the max!! to be a military woman.

Well, pretty pitiful that you are only capable of such cheap offends, but since you've proven with first post that you're just random misogynist who thinks he has the right to call women which looks he doesn't like as apes, I didn't expect anything more from you.

And it's pretty funny that you try to draw the matter as if it's only either that anorexic look or body building. There are different levels of fit-ness. I wouldn't say that any of my friends is "buffed to the max", but none of them looks so unrealistically thin and weak as femShep.

I know very well there are different levels of fit-ness, it is you who called FemShep anorexic! No shades of gray for you either huh.

The ones posted here(not all) have insanely muscular arms, yes i find that ugly. Do i find every other girl who doesnt look like Miranda ugly.. no. So dont put words in my mouth, stop crying, do some push ups, dont worry about BioWare not getting, who in you're eyes are, potential customers and leave this personal issue of yours alone.

[LetMeW1n]

Monochrome Wench wrote...

LetMeW1n wrote...

The trend of male teens calling all kinds of girls "fat" and having anorexic fantasies is long over, lol.. That was just the facade adopted by the last teen generation..

What's all that about anorexia anyway.. Don't know any people who have it, but just in my school there are already plenty of frail and 'thin' looking girls who surprised me producing several pull-ups(4-6) at one go regularly(they also did lots of cardio, as with all of them, lol).

Hell, I've got this dude friend who looks perfectly ordinary and had very little muscle definition to speak of, maybe just a little size. And then he went on to win a version of Iron Man in our school, which is basically doing military intervals repeatedly until the last man standing. Speaks volumes about his full body endurance, eh. And he does what I'd like to call "flying" pull-ups, Consistently at least 20 reps each time, maximum 30. No kidding, and he was 15. Of course he might be a very special case, yeah...

Don't know how that'd contribute to this discussion, but there u go

Pull ups are 'misleading' trying to gauge someones strength. The lighter you are (as girls are) the less muscle strength you need to pull yourself up. And of course the ratio of muscle strength to muscle size is far from linear. Not that this has much relevance to the overall discussion, just thought I'd point that out.

Right, thanks. Was just taking something out of personal experience anyhow. Guess the conclusion for me there was that the femshep body shape doesn't really matter to me, and that it's not because I like skinny arms or teen male fantasies(subconsciously or not). And maybe it applies to other people too. 

Modifié par LetMeW1n, 28 février 2012 - 01:41 .

[Sporothrix]

Hassu wrote...

If you want to sit there and look like a hypocrit, by all means.

You suggested that I was lying somewhere. And that's your answer?

 

No, because you wish to believe otherwise. I honestly don't care what Shepard should ideally look like to you, but do not assume that you represent the majority in this. The problem does not stem from what the developers designed her to look like. I've seen far worse (Halo Reach comes to mind) when it comes to the design of female characters in video games. But complaining about this is both pathetic and shallow, especially for a video game where Shepard shares the same body type with almost every other character in the game (a few companion characters being the exclusion), and I'm talking about both sexes here.

 
And why should I care that you've seen far worse designs? I care about this game, not Halo. And how a fact that all male characters are overgrown steroid bulks and all female characters are anorexic make it any better?

 

  
Two things. First, you easily confuse weight loss with anorexic disorder. If this was true, a lot of women in the world would have this disorder. And I mean, A LOT. Strength is also not defined by muscularity alone. You don't just devlop big muscles by being in the military, it is something you have to actively work for every day. 

I assume you have in mind some big muscles. But the thing is, Shepard has practically NO muscles and is incredibly thin. MALE SHEPARD has muscles. So why's there so big difference in portrayal of the same character based on gender, even though they have the same training and do the same thing?

[tmp7704]

PXXL wrote...

For real? you are such a victim .. .. makes me even more sick then those pictures.

I do appreciate the irony of calling the victim card and in the very same sentence complaining it makes you sick. Even if i doubt it's intentional.

[Hassu]

misoretu9 wrote...

Hassu wrote...

If you want to sit there and look like a hypocrit, by all means.

You suggested that I was lying somewhere. And that's your answer?

 

No, because you wish to believe otherwise. I honestly don't care what Shepard should ideally look like to you, but do not assume that you represent the majority in this. The problem does not stem from what the developers designed her to look like. I've seen far worse (Halo Reach comes to mind) when it comes to the design of female characters in video games. But complaining about this is both pathetic and shallow, especially for a video game where Shepard shares the same body type with almost every other character in the game (a few companion characters being the exclusion), and I'm talking about both sexes here.

 
And why should I care that you've seen far worse designs? I care about this game, not Halo. And how a fact that all male characters are overgrown steroid bulks and all female characters are anorexic make it any better?

 

  
Two things. First, you easily confuse weight loss with anorexic disorder. If this was true, a lot of women in the world would have this disorder. And I mean, A LOT. Strength is also not defined by muscularity alone. You don't just devlop big muscles by being in the military, it is something you have to actively work for every day. 

I assume you have in mind some big muscles. But the thing is, Shepard has practically NO muscles and is incredibly thin. MALE SHEPARD has muscles. So why's there so big difference in portrayal of the same character based on gender, even though they have the same training and do the same thing?

Since your only interest is to insult people who do not agree with you, and then call them the bad guys, I'm just going to tell you this;

You'll get over it. 

Modifié par Hassu, 28 février 2012 - 01:47 .

[PXXL]

tmp7704 wrote...

PXXL wrote...

For real? you are such a victim .. .. makes me even more sick then those pictures.

I do appreciate the irony of calling the victim card and in the very same sentence complaining it makes you sick. Even if i doubt it's intentional.

I'm sorry, did you just say im calling the victim card.. It is pretty obvious dont you think? i don't need to call anything its there for everyone to read. here ill quote it again

tmp7704 wrote...
 It just isn't fun to experience what may very much feel like second class treatment.

 

And i don't really see the irony in me getting sick by such a strange, filled with self-entitlement remark.. in fact there is none. I'm not complaining im responding to your complaints. Much like anything else you put out there will get a response.. 

Modifié par PXXL, 28 février 2012 - 01:51 .

[Quarters Alpha]

I also find it interesting that hardly anyone's bringing up the point that Shepard's been out of duty, and Anderson even comments on his/her lack of shape. Like others have said, if you don't work out extensively every day, or at least the majority of days during the week, you are going to lose muscle and muscle definition for sure.