230 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKillerAngel]

Do you study botany?

[CyanidPontifex]

It's an interesting idea, and well thought out, but you can't assume that the Thorian's basic biology is at all like that of terrestrial plants.

[ObserverStatus]

TheBlackBaron wrote...
Railguns, bo. Nuclear weapons are unncessary. We can be sure with either. 

What fun is that?  The most powerful railgun in the Alliance fleet only has .00076 times the of power as Tsar Bomba.

TheKillerAngel wrote...
Do you study botany?

Organismal Biology, atm, if I was studying botany I would have made this even more complicated. 

Modifié par bobobo878, 28 février 2012 - 03:52 .

[Weskerr]

This isn't evidence. It's just your hypothesis, and there is no way to test it. The life cycles of the plants we know of developed soley on Earth over hundreds of millions of years. It's doubtful that the Thorian shares many - if any - qualities with Earth's plant life (ie...genetically, reproductive cycles etc). The diagram you provided refers to a very specific group of plant - ferns. Their life cycles are similar but not identical to the other groups of plants - the gymnosperms, angiosperms, mosses etc... If the life cycle of the Thorian were to be similar to any type of plant's life cycle on earth (if the Thorian is indeed a plant at all as we know it), it would be either that of the gymnosperms or angiosperms. Both of these types of plants evolved to survive and reproduce on land about 360 million years ago on Earth, evolving from other vascular plants (vascular plants emerged 425 million years ago).

To say that Zhu's Hope must be purged based on the life cycle of ferns which developed and evolved on Earth for hundreds of millions of years is proposterous. The lore of Mass Effect makes no mention of the Thorian's genetic composition, so there is no way to compare it to the genetic composition of Earth's plants. It's not even clear what type of organism the Thorian can be classified as.

[ArkkAngel007]

Weskerr, while his thread title says "evidence", he states in his post that it's only a theory.

But yeah, that was why I offered some specific alternatives that, quite frankly, may be the more likely case.

[Homebound]

how do we know the thorian is even hostile? we've only met ONE. ONE really old one. lets not turn this murder into a genocide.

[TheBlackBaron]

bobobo878 wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...
Railguns, bo. Nuclear weapons are unncessary. We can be sure with either. 

What fun is that?  The most powerful railgun in the Alliance fleet only has .00076 times the of power as Tsar Bomba.

Yes, well, we don't need the Czar Bomb. I think we can make it to "the only way to be sure" with a simple multi-kiloton explosion. 

[nevar00]

Again thought you're basing the Thorian off of Earth's plants. I haven't checked in a while but I'm pretty sure you still can't barter with trees.

It's speculation and assumptions and there's not much else to it. You're also assuming the colonists were not quarantined or checked out afterwards.

[ObserverStatus]

Weskerr wrote...

This isn't evidence. It's just your hypothesis, and there is no way to test it. The life cycles of the plants we know of developed soley on Earth over hundreds of millions of years. It's doubtful that the Thorian shares many - if any - qualities with Earth's plant life (ie...genetically, reproductive cycles etc). The diagram you provided refers to a very specific group of plant - ferns. Their life cycles are similar but not identical to the other groups of plants - the gymnosperms, angiosperms, mosses etc... If the life cycle of the Thorian were to be similar to any type of plant's life cycle on earth (if the Thorian is indeed a plant at all as we know it), it would be either that of the gymnosperms or angiosperms. Both of these types of plants evolved to survive and reproduce on land about 360 million years ago on Earth, evolving from other vascular plants (vascular plants emerged 425 million years ago).

Didn't you read my post?  That chart didn't just show how the reproductive system of ferns work, it works for the majority of seedless vascular plants.  I think we both agree that this is a vascular plant we are deaing with, the idea that a nonvascular plant could grow to that size is preposterous.  However, the game contains no evidence that the Thorian produces seeds, or has any other derived characteristics of gymnosperms, much less angiosperm characteristics.  If you can name some derived characteristics of either gymnosperms or angiosperms that the Thorian shares I might be inclined to believe you, but otherwise I stand by my statement that this is a seedless vascular plant.

Modifié par bobobo878, 28 février 2012 - 04:06 .

[Raxxman]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Weskerr, while his thread title says "evidence", he states in his post that it's only a theory.

But yeah, that was why I offered some specific alternatives that, quite frankly, may be the more likely case.

Dude all science is worded as theory.

Gravity is a theory, relativity, string theory, evloution... List goes on

You can't prove anything, mearly  statistically suggest something.

This doesn't change the fact he picked a very unscientific solution to the proposed problem.

[Weskerr]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Weskerr, while his thread title says "evidence", he states in his post that it's only a theory.

But yeah, that was why I offered some specific alternatives that, quite frankly, may be the more likely case.

I only read the OP so I didn't see any of the responses. I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, but the title of the post should state that it's a hypothesis or theory because as it is, the title is inaccurate.

[ObserverStatus]

Weskerr wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...
Weskerr, while his thread title says "evidence", he states in his post that it's only a theory.
But yeah, that was why I offered some specific alternatives that, quite frankly, may be the more likely case.

I only read the OP so I didn't see any of the responses. I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, but the title of the post should state that it's a hypothesis or theory because as it is, the title is inaccurate.

I'm not sure you read the parts I wrote about its taxonomy. : /

Modifié par bobobo878, 28 février 2012 - 04:09 .

[Big I]

I'm no scientist, but even if the OP hypothesis is right and there are mini Thorians growing in the colonists it doesn't mean they're doomed.


As of ME2 they're receiving advanced medical treatment/study courtesy of Baria Frontiers.


Feros is an Exo-Geni colony, and as of ME2 they're still researching the dead Thorian, perhaps leading to treatment options.


Given that the Thorian life cycle involves long periods of hibernation like behaviour, it's not an unreasonable possibility that the gestation period of the spores is longer than a human, salarian, or even asari life time.


Furthermore, I'm not sure I buy animal life being a key part of Thorian evolution and biology. The Thorian proved itself capable of creating it's own semi-independent army (creepers and clones), why would it need aliens?

[Raxxman]

Well I am a scientist, and your rational is perfectly reasonable LookingGlass.

[Weskerr]

bobobo878 wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

This isn't evidence. It's just your hypothesis, and there is no way to test it. The life cycles of the plants we know of developed soley on Earth over hundreds of millions of years. It's doubtful that the Thorian shares many - if any - qualities with Earth's plant life (ie...genetically, reproductive cycles etc). The diagram you provided refers to a very specific group of plant - ferns. Their life cycles are similar but not identical to the other groups of plants - the gymnosperms, angiosperms, mosses etc... If the life cycle of the Thorian were to be similar to any type of plant's life cycle on earth (if the Thorian is indeed a plant at all as we know it), it would be either that of the gymnosperms or angiosperms. Both of these types of plants evolved to survive and reproduce on land about 360 million years ago on Earth, evolving from other vascular plants (vascular plants emerged 425 million years ago).

Didn't you read my post?  That chart didn't just show how the reproductive system of ferns work, it works for the majority of seedless vascular plants.  I think we both agree that this is a vascular plant we are deaing with, the idea that a nonvascular plant could grow to that size is preposterous.  However, the game contains no evidence that the Thorian produces seeds, or has any other derived characteristics of gymnosperms, much less angiosperm characteristics.  If you can name some derived characteristics of either gymnosperms or angiosperms that the Thorian shares I might be inclined to believe you, but otherwise I stand by my statement that this is a seedless vascular plant.

I skimmed your post - I didn't give it an actual thorough reading which I should have. I apologize for that. My point, however, is that it's very unlikely that an organism (such as the Thorian) that developed and evolved on a different planet and in a different part of the galaxy would have much at all in common with Earth's organisms, especially anything so specific as a life cycle of a specific type of organism (plant). I doubt it has much in common with gymnosperms or angiosperms too, but I mentioned them to just make the point that if the Thorian should be compared to plants, the two types I mentioned would probably have the most similarities with it. The Thorian definitely looks like a plant, and has some characteristics of plants (roots), but that does not mean it is a plant (at least not a plant in any sense as we understand plants to be on Earth).

You're right though, I need to read your entire post from top to bottom thoroughly. I just got so excited after skimming through it because this is stuff I know about (I majored in biology as an undergrad).

[DJBare]

Of course, most of this is on the premise that the thorian is dead, I certainly don't remember jumping down that hole to check it's pulse.

[ObserverStatus]

LookingGlass93 wrote...
Furthermore, I'm not sure I buy animal life being a key part of Thorian evolution and biology. The Thorian proved itself capable of creating it's own semi-independent army (creepers and clones), why would it need aliens?

Two reasons.  First of all, the Thorian would have to put far less of its resources into the amount of spores it would take to infect a single colonist than the amount it would take to create a reaper or clone.  The amount of element zero that goes into those Asari Clones alone must be substantial.  Second of all, to understand why it relies on aliens, you must ask yourself why it evolved the ability to control them in the first place.  Some plants prey on insects in areas poor in nutrients, perhaps it just needs the nutrients inside the bodies of its hosts in order to fertilize its young?  Or herhaps it is otherwise unfit to compete with other plants for resources and uses animals to destroy them? There are many possibilities, but I don't think that it gain the ability to control these creatures if it didn't need to.

[ObserverStatus]

Weskerr wrote...
I skimmed your post - I didn't give it an actual thorough reading which I should have. I apologize for that. My point, however, is that it's very unlikely that an organism (such as the Thorian) that developed and evolved on a different planet and in a different part of the galaxy would have much at all in common with Earth's organisms, especially anything so specific as a life cycle of a specific type of organism (plant). I doubt it has much in common with gymnosperms or angiosperms too, but I mentioned them to just make the point that if the Thorian should be compared to plants, the two types I mentioned would probably have the most similarities with it. The Thorian definitely looks like a plant, and has some characteristics of plants (roots), but that does not mean it is a plant (at least not a plant in any sense as we understand plants to be on Earth).
You're right though, I need to read your entire post from top to bottom thoroughly. I just got so excited after skimming through it because this is stuff I know about (I majored in biology as an undergrad).

I can understand that, I don't always look before I post either, and I see your point about the possibility that the thorian having no terrestrial analogue. But I'm not sure what you're saying about the organisms taxonomy in your latest post.  Are you still saying that it would probably have more in common with angiosperms and gymnosperms than seedless vascular plants, or are you just explaining why you had thought that before, because I'm not seeing the resemblance.

[Weskerr]

bobobo878 wrote...


I can understand that, I don't always look before I post either, and I see your point about the possibility that the thorian having no terrestrial analogue. But I'm not sure what you're saying about the organisms taxonomy in your latest post.  Are you still saying that it would probably have more in common with angiosperms and gymnosperms than seedless vascular plants, or are you just explaining why you had thought that before, because I'm not seeing the resemblance.

Yes, I think the Thorian would probably most resemble angiosperms and gymnosperms as opposed to seedless vascular plants. I say this because their seeds and pollen are key adaptations that improved the ability of plants to diversify in terrestrial habitats. Vascular plants with seeds also make up 90% of the approximately 290,000 species of living plants on Earth. With such a dominant presence in the plant world, I think it would be more likely for the Thorian to develop along the lines of gymnosperms and angiosperms (angiosperms make up 250,000 of the 290,000 species of known plants). The Thorian's success (up until Shepard killed it lol) could be attributed to similar adaptations which made gymnosperms and angiosperms so successful on Earth. 

[Nageth]

We ruling out the thorian being a fungus?

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

I like it. The reason to PURGE!

[TheBlackBaron]

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

I like it. The reason to PURGE!

KILL. BURN. PURGE.

[didymos1120]

Nageth wrote...

We ruling out the thorian being a fungus?

Uh...yeah?  The game itself says it's not.

[dreman9999]

 The funny thing is that this was the reason my Engineer killed everyone of Feros.:innocent:

[Nageth]

didymos1120 wrote...

Nageth wrote...

We ruling out the thorian being a fungus?

Uh...yeah?  The game itself says it's not.

Don't remember the lore off the top of my head. Sigh.