130 réponses à ce sujet

[The Palmer]

The DLC being the focal point of the beginning is a bit trash, since every other DLC til then basically didn't matter once the story arc was complete. That said, Arrival ended up being a pivotal point in ME2, so it's very understandable that Shepard would get reprimanded for it as well as his apparent betrayal (By siding with Cerberus) and his "crack-pot theories" regarding the Reapers. Missing it isn't anyone's fault, but knowing about even just now means you can at least read up on what happened to get some semblance of what's going on.

[Legion64]

WeWant wrote...

Legion64 wrote...

Download Arrival, and everything will come together.

Congratulations, that's the perfect comment to ****** me off.

I'm sorry.

[ArkkAngel007]

The Palmer wrote...

The DLC being the focal point of the beginning is a bit trash, since every other DLC til then basically didn't matter once the story arc was complete. That said, Arrival ended up being a pivotal point in ME2, so it's very understandable that Shepard would get reprimanded for it as well as his apparent betrayal (By siding with Cerberus) and his "crack-pot theories" regarding the Reapers. Missing it isn't anyone's fault, but knowing about even just now means you can at least read up on what happened to get some semblance of what's going on.

Lair of the Shadow Broker mattered though too, and that doesn't get explained right off the bat either.  Maybe not to the same degree, but it still is something that has an significant effect on the lore-end of things.

[The Palmer]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

The Palmer wrote...

The DLC being the focal point of the beginning is a bit trash, since every other DLC til then basically didn't matter once the story arc was complete. That said, Arrival ended up being a pivotal point in ME2, so it's very understandable that Shepard would get reprimanded for it as well as his apparent betrayal (By siding with Cerberus) and his "crack-pot theories" regarding the Reapers. Missing it isn't anyone's fault, but knowing about even just now means you can at least read up on what happened to get some semblance of what's going on.

Lair of the Shadow Broker mattered though too, and that doesn't get explained right off the bat either.  Maybe not to the same degree, but it still is something that has an significant effect on the lore-end of things.

Would you believe that I forgot about it til just now? 

[movieguyabw]

The Palmer wrote...

The DLC being the focal point of the beginning is a bit trash, since every other DLC til then basically didn't matter once the story arc was complete. That said, Arrival ended up being a pivotal point in ME2, so it's very understandable that Shepard would get reprimanded for it as well as his apparent betrayal (By siding with Cerberus) and his "crack-pot theories" regarding the Reapers. Missing it isn't anyone's fault, but knowing about even just now means you can at least read up on what happened to get some semblance of what's going on.

Forcing gamers to purchase DLC, or looking up summaries online in order to understand the beginning of a story is just bad writing and direction.

And given that there are no actual choices in Arrival, I can't see it being canon to every player's Shepard.  I've got an Infiltrator who the whole idea of being put on trial for committing genocide is a big deal - since I've been RPing with him as someone who is trying desperately to save everyone, and obviously he won't be able to.

As for my Renegade Vanguard, who commits genocide on a daily basis, it's not that big of a deal - and I'd like to believe she's on trial for all of her other actions.  The "**** you've done" line is so much more fitting with her, than talking about one of those "for the greater good" decisions.  So yeah, I've been working on another playthrough with her, and I plan on skipping Arrival, and pretending that she never did that mission. 

[Unschuld]

Even with the loyalest of squaddies, I can't imagine the likes of Tali and Garrus sitting outside of Shepard's jail cell/Alliance tribunal thingy just waiting around indefinitely. They wouldn't let them loiter around anyway, Alliance military has a strict "no lolligaggin" policy. Besides, those humans are all racist.

Short summation: Shep was made unavailable (for an undetermined amount of time), so they went off to make themselves useful with their respective species rather than sitting around on their thumbs.

Modifié par Unschuld, 28 février 2012 - 06:03 .

[The Palmer]

movieguyabw wrote...

The Palmer wrote...

The DLC being the focal point of the beginning is a bit trash, since every other DLC til then basically didn't matter once the story arc was complete. That said, Arrival ended up being a pivotal point in ME2, so it's very understandable that Shepard would get reprimanded for it as well as his apparent betrayal (By siding with Cerberus) and his "crack-pot theories" regarding the Reapers. Missing it isn't anyone's fault, but knowing about even just now means you can at least read up on what happened to get some semblance of what's going on.

Forcing gamers to purchase DLC, or looking up summaries online in order to understand the beginning of a story is just bad writing and direction.

And given that there are no actual choices in Arrival, I can't see it being canon to every player's Shepard.  I've got an Infiltrator who the whole idea of being put on trial for committing genocide is a big deal - since I've been RPing with him as someone who is trying desperately to save everyone, and obviously he won't be able to.

As for my Renegade Vanguard, who commits genocide on a daily basis, it's not that big of a deal - and I'd like to believe she's on trial for all of her other actions.  The "**** you've done" line is so much more fitting with her, than talking about one of those "for the greater good" decisions.  So yeah, I've been working on another playthrough with her, and I plan on skipping Arrival, and pretending that she never did that mission. 

Don't get me wrong, I agree completely. DLC shouldn't be the focal point, in fact, it should be little more than a news announcement or random email.

[Frailstrength]

The Palmer wrote...

movieguyabw wrote...

The Palmer wrote...

The DLC being the focal point of the beginning is a bit trash, since every other DLC til then basically didn't matter once the story arc was complete. That said, Arrival ended up being a pivotal point in ME2, so it's very understandable that Shepard would get reprimanded for it as well as his apparent betrayal (By siding with Cerberus) and his "crack-pot theories" regarding the Reapers. Missing it isn't anyone's fault, but knowing about even just now means you can at least read up on what happened to get some semblance of what's going on.

Forcing gamers to purchase DLC, or looking up summaries online in order to understand the beginning of a story is just bad writing and direction.

And given that there are no actual choices in Arrival, I can't see it being canon to every player's Shepard.  I've got an Infiltrator who the whole idea of being put on trial for committing genocide is a big deal - since I've been RPing with him as someone who is trying desperately to save everyone, and obviously he won't be able to.

As for my Renegade Vanguard, who commits genocide on a daily basis, it's not that big of a deal - and I'd like to believe she's on trial for all of her other actions.  The "**** you've done" line is so much more fitting with her, than talking about one of those "for the greater good" decisions.  So yeah, I've been working on another playthrough with her, and I plan on skipping Arrival, and pretending that she never did that mission. 

Don't get me wrong, I agree completely. DLC shouldn't be the focal point, in fact, it should be little more than a news announcement or random email.

So we should restrict the developer's ability to tell a story over a period of time? That doesn't make sense. I'm sure that ME3 will expalin things properly as you go on if you haven't played Arrival. I don't think it's fair to BIoware to restrict their ability to tell a story. The reason I played Arrival, Overlord and Lair of the Shadow Broker were because of their impact on the overarching narrative. Arrival wouldn't even make sense as a mission at all on the main disc; it would have to be something that would be added later. In fact, all three of those missions were things that would fit perfectly into what DLC is for. In my opinion, the DLC capability was used very well by Bioware this time around.

[Cainne Chapel]

Indeed.

Also dont forget that overlord, LOTSB and arrival were all released MONTHS after ME2 even came out and with all 3 I looked forward to continuing the story. It'd be rather silly to release 3 missions WELL after the release that had NO story consequence or narrative.

In fact I'm quite happy that they had "canon" choices in them to move the story along as "Bridging" content

[heisman45]

Like you said it will all be explained in time. Just like between 1 and 2 I know at the open of two was your death so tat explains why they left but it will be similar in this one. Mordin probably left so he could help cure the genophage. (one example) Tali most likely had to due some things involving the Conclave back at the Flotilla. And remember Cerberus is a know enemy of almost everybody so the fact Sheppard was with them was a big deal.

[Arrtis]

Why would they stick with you on earth with your ship grounded and your not doing anything?
Better to run off and do something.
They all had agendas before hand.Except Grunt and maybe mordin.(since mordin was retired and wanted to be productive his last 10 years)
Grunt would have to fight and mordin would be doing something to help people or the greater good.So none of them would stick around waiting....

[movieguyabw]

Frailstrength wrote...

The Palmer wrote...

movieguyabw wrote...

The Palmer wrote...

The DLC being the focal point of the beginning is a bit trash, since every other DLC til then basically didn't matter once the story arc was complete. That said, Arrival ended up being a pivotal point in ME2, so it's very understandable that Shepard would get reprimanded for it as well as his apparent betrayal (By siding with Cerberus) and his "crack-pot theories" regarding the Reapers. Missing it isn't anyone's fault, but knowing about even just now means you can at least read up on what happened to get some semblance of what's going on.

Forcing gamers to purchase DLC, or looking up summaries online in order to understand the beginning of a story is just bad writing and direction.

And given that there are no actual choices in Arrival, I can't see it being canon to every player's Shepard.  I've got an Infiltrator who the whole idea of being put on trial for committing genocide is a big deal - since I've been RPing with him as someone who is trying desperately to save everyone, and obviously he won't be able to.

As for my Renegade Vanguard, who commits genocide on a daily basis, it's not that big of a deal - and I'd like to believe she's on trial for all of her other actions.  The "**** you've done" line is so much more fitting with her, than talking about one of those "for the greater good" decisions.  So yeah, I've been working on another playthrough with her, and I plan on skipping Arrival, and pretending that she never did that mission. 

Don't get me wrong, I agree completely. DLC shouldn't be the focal point, in fact, it should be little more than a news announcement or random email.

So we should restrict the developer's ability to tell a story over a period of time? That doesn't make sense. I'm sure that ME3 will expalin things properly as you go on if you haven't played Arrival. I don't think it's fair to BIoware to restrict their ability to tell a story. The reason I played Arrival, Overlord and Lair of the Shadow Broker were because of their impact on the overarching narrative. Arrival wouldn't even make sense as a mission at all on the main disc; it would have to be something that would be added later. In fact, all three of those missions were things that would fit perfectly into what DLC is for. In my opinion, the DLC capability was used very well by Bioware this time around.

How would we be restricting their ability to tell a story?  The simple fact that it's only available only as DLC is restricting to those who don't have the capacity to make such a download, be it lack of an Xbox live account, or funds.  Which, may not be a majority, but constitutes a portion of their fanbase, as well.

Why would Arrival not make sense on the main disc?  It would make perfect sense as a epilogue to the Collector base destruction.  Sort of a post-game mission that is only unlocked after you complete the suicide mission and majority of N7 assignments.

But I digress, my post was *never* about how these shouldn't have been DLC.  My point was that if you're going to make these DLC, then it shouldn't be a requirement to download them, in order to understand the narrative of ME3.  Case in point:  many people have asked why Shepard begins on Earth, awaiting trial.  The answer?  Go out, buy Arrival, and play through it.  You'll then understand *why* Shepard's there.  There isn't a small dialog at the start of ME3 (or so we know of yet) where Shepard arrives on Earth, and asks why he's been summoned and Anderson's like "the Admirals want your head.  You're being stripped of your rank, and ship, because they don't like the **** you've been doing."

[Cainne Chapel]

but why shouldn't they make DLC months/years after the game is released to expand the story? Nothing wrong with that in my eyes. Sure people dont HAVE to buy it, but if the devs say is "story" content, well then its up to the consumers to decide if they want it or not, but they should hardly complain about more story if they decided to avoid it. Just like one can hardly complain about not having a full ME2 recap if ME3 doesn't provide one (it shouldn't have too).

Also as far as storyline goes, I'm more than sure ME3 will explain the reasoning of shep being on earth. You cant expect a shortened demo to explain ALL the early plot points, that would just be silly

[ItsFreakinJesus]

movieguyabw wrote...

The Palmer wrote...

The DLC being the focal point of the beginning is a bit trash, since every other DLC til then basically didn't matter once the story arc was complete. That said, Arrival ended up being a pivotal point in ME2, so it's very understandable that Shepard would get reprimanded for it as well as his apparent betrayal (By siding with Cerberus) and his "crack-pot theories" regarding the Reapers. Missing it isn't anyone's fault, but knowing about even just now means you can at least read up on what happened to get some semblance of what's going on.

Forcing gamers to purchase DLC, or looking up summaries online in order to understand the beginning of a story is just bad writing and direction.

And given that there are no actual choices in Arrival, I can't see it being canon to every player's Shepard.  I've got an Infiltrator who the whole idea of being put on trial for committing genocide is a big deal - since I've been RPing with him as someone who is trying desperately to save everyone, and obviously he won't be able to.

As for my Renegade Vanguard, who commits genocide on a daily basis, it's not that big of a deal - and I'd like to believe she's on trial for all of her other actions.  The "**** you've done" line is so much more fitting with her, than talking about one of those "for the greater good" decisions.  So yeah, I've been working on another playthrough with her, and I plan on skipping Arrival, and pretending that she never did that mission. 

No more so than having the sequel of a game play off of the story in the preceding game.  With that logic, people should complain that they shouldn't have to play the first or second game in any franchise to understand the story of the third, or watch any movie in any franchise before the one they're about to watch in order to understand the story.

Someone who jumps in at Metal Gear Solid 4 shouldn't be frustrated because the plot doesn't detail everything for them in the game when it's their fault that they didn't pay attention to the previous three games.

Someone who jumps in at Harry Potter 7 shouldn't be frustrated because they don't understand anything about Voldermort aside from him being evil simply because there's six other movies that explain everything.

People shouldn't be frustrated because ME3 doesn't explain everything when there were two games and three DLC crucial to the overall plot, one of which links directly into the third.

[AlexXIV]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

There will be both additional lines in the Earth introduction and later on the Normandy (namely through Vega, Joker, and the VS) that talk about your actions in Arrival and why you were grounded, as will the Council.

Oh I really want to see how they fix with additionally lines that no matter what choices you made in ME1/ME2 warrant Shep's grounding and how they still claim any choices we made actually matter.
 
"Duh Shepard we know that you are a Spectre, you saved the Citadel and Council, stopped the Collectors and gave us imporant intel about Cerberus and blew up the base instead of giving it to Cerberus and even though you have always been friendly to aliens we are going to ground you because you blew up the relay to stop the Reapers, but we are not going to believe you anything you say because we are idiots and will lock you up for half a year until the Reapers actually hit Earth and then demand you to come up with a plan to stop them. Because we are trololol stupid (and Bioware can't come up with different intros according to your playthrough)."

This is really my biggest issue with ME3 and really makes me wonder if I should buy it at all if I already know this will bug the hell out of me from start and probably through the most part of the game. Because as much as I like Mass Effect I am really unsure whether I would like Dumb Effect. The game about the stupidest galactic civilisation in sci-fi history that is clearly not worth to be saved at all. Kinda makes it moot to save it then, doesn't it?

Modifié par AlexXIV, 28 février 2012 - 06:58 .

[movieguyabw]

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

With that logic, people should complain that they shouldn't have to play the first or second game in any franchise to understand the story of the third, or watch any movie in any franchise before the one they're about to watch in order to understand the story.

No, with that logic people should complain if Return of the Jedi began with Luke, Han and the gang were flying to Endor, and you had to go out and buy a DVD containing the whole scene at Jabba's Palace.

It's the point of paying for something twice, when the second payment isn't for something optional, but for something required to understand the plot.

[Balancer]

Zaeed: Contract is over, and wanted to retire after the mission

Legion:probably building consensus with the other geth over what to do

Samara: Her vow is completed, and is likely hunting other ardat yaksi and prepares for the reapers

Garrus: family affairs

Tali: probably rallying the quarians

Miranda: resigned at cerberus, and will need to make sure her sister is safe.

Jacob:I've no idea, probaly going to fitness

Grunt: Well, he is part of the urdnot clan, wrex probably needs him

Thane: is dying, so likely spending time with kolyat.

Kasumi: needs to keep the graybox save. or bizzy with thieving

Jack: likely on the run

Mordin: we know that from the demo.

Most of the information, comes from the dossiers at the brokers base. other things i'm guessing

Modifié par balancer, 28 février 2012 - 07:01 .

[Cainne Chapel]

Well since the top brass ALWAYS disbelieved the Reaper thing (No proof remember), why would they SUDDENLY believe it AFTER Shepard blows up a freaking Relay alex?

The disbelief of shepard is kind of integral and built into the plot As he is the ONLY person who has seen/heard from the reapers and even the collector problem was outside of Council AND alliance jurisdiction. So they would have no need to worry or care for fringe colonies.

Also somehow believing bioware should come up with VASTLY differen't intros based on your choices would not only be VERY time consuming, it would also be wasteful. They can't have the ME1 or ME2 diverging wildly or nothing would ever be wrapped up and we'd STILL be waiting for ME2 to drop if all the little threads from ME1 could provide VASTLY different outcomes on th eplot

[Hiredguns23]

Malanek999 wrote...

Legion64 wrote...

Download Arrival, and everything will come together.

Have you read the thread? Arrival doesn't explain why ALL your loyal crew members have done a runner. 

?
This quote doesn't make since. Also Arrival explains why you are on earth, from the start on ME3.

[Cainne Chapel]

movieguyabw wrote...

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

With that logic, people should complain that they shouldn't have to play the first or second game in any franchise to understand the story of the third, or watch any movie in any franchise before the one they're about to watch in order to understand the story.

No, with that logic people should complain if Return of the Jedi began with Luke, Han and the gang were flying to Endor, and you had to go out and buy a DVD containing the whole scene at Jabba's Palace.

It's the point of paying for something twice, when the second payment isn't for something optional, but for something required to understand the plot.

But thats the thing, You're not paying for something twice, its akin to paying for an epilogue, not integral to the plot but it does tie up a few things and set things up for the sequel.

Besides kind of silly to think two DLC (one released 8 months after release and the other 14 months after release) should have been INCLUDED in the game dont you think?

Besides if they DIDN'T expand the story... what would be the point of putting the effort into making them?

[movieguyabw]

Hiredguns23 wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Legion64 wrote...

Download Arrival, and everything will come together.

Have you read the thread? Arrival doesn't explain why ALL your loyal crew members have done a runner. 

?
This quote doesn't make since. Also Arrival explains why you are on earth, from the start on ME3.

I believe Legion's point was Arrival doesn't explain why your crew abandoned you.  None of your crew is there at the beginning.  Sure, it kind of makes sense why the Cerberus agents wouldn't be there (though, if you are being incarcerated, why they wouldn't be detained as well is a good question), but Garrus, Tali, and Grunt have no reason to just leave you.  At least not without actively trying to find reasons for them to leave.

It also doesn't explain who the hell James is, or how Shepard knows him.  Or how everyone suddenly believes you.

[AveryChim]

movieguyabw wrote...
But I digress, my post was *never* about how these shouldn't have been DLC.  My point was that if you're going to make these DLC, then it shouldn't be a requirement to download them, in order to understand the narrative of ME3.  Case in point:  many people have asked why Shepard begins on Earth, awaiting trial.  The answer?  Go out, buy Arrival, and play through it.  You'll then understand *why* Shepard's there.  There isn't a small dialog at the start of ME3 (or so we know of yet) where Shepard arrives on Earth, and asks why he's been summoned and Anderson's like "the Admirals want your head.  You're being stripped of your rank, and ship, because they don't like the **** you've been doing."

Even without the events of arrival, the Alliance still has more then enough reason to call Shephard back for trial (for working with Cerberus) or questioning. If someone asks me why Shephard is on Earth awaiting trial, wouldn't it be better to advise them to actually play ME3 instead of arrival? In the demo, it was not explisitly stated why Shephard was back on Earth, so it's all speculation anyway, whether or not you've played arrival.

[Cainne Chapel]

As for the crew, most of them were only short term members anyway, with the mission complete they go back to their lives.

Grunt has a clan now and is more than likely with his people
Garrus is probably attending to personal matters
Tali is (barring exile) probably back with her people or figuring out what to do with herself
Jack is off doing whatever it is Jack does
Miranda/Jacob probably distancing themselves from cerberus
Mordin is back with STG and still probably trying to figure out that scale itch issue
Samara/Zaeed/Kasumi back to their old lives
Thane is more than likely spending his time with Kolyat

[MostlyAutumn]

AlexXIV wrote...
 
"Duh Shepard we know that you are a Spectre, you saved the Citadel and Council, stopped the Collectors and gave us imporant intel about Cerberus and blew up the base instead of giving it to Cerberus and even though you have always been friendly to aliens we are going to ground you because you blew up the relay to stop the Reapers, but we are not going to believe you anything you say because we are idiots and will lock you up for half a year until the Reapers actually hit Earth and then demand you to come up with a plan to stop them. Because we are trololol stupid (and Bioware can't come up with different intros according to your playthrough)."

This is really my biggest issue with ME3 and really makes me wonder if I should buy it at all if I already know this will bug the hell out of me from start and probably through the most part of the game. Because as much as I like Mass Effect I am really unsure whether I would like Dumb Effect. The game about the stupidest galactic civilisation in sci-fi history that is clearly not worth to be saved at all. Kinda makes it moot to save it then, doesn't it?

Secret organization that puts its logo on everything is dumb. Grounding Shep to prevent interspecies war right before Reaper invasion is not dumb. Also you confuse the Council with the Alliance.

[ItsFreakinJesus]

movieguyabw wrote...

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

With that logic, people should complain that they shouldn't have to play the first or second game in any franchise to understand the story of the third, or watch any movie in any franchise before the one they're about to watch in order to understand the story.

No, with that logic people should complain if Return of the Jedi began with Luke, Han and the gang were flying to Endor, and you had to go out and buy a DVD containing the whole scene at Jabba's Palace.

It's the point of paying for something twice, when the second payment isn't for something optional, but for something required to understand the plot.

Those aren't even remotely the same.  Arrival isn't content cut from ME3 as it would be if your example was valid, it's essentially a short sequel to ME2 built off of the ME2 engine.