176 réponses à ce sujet

[Adhin]

Yeah it's not 25%, its 50%. Base Shields (and any comparible %) is ultimately half of what a humans base is. They're 500/500, Drell is 500/250. Max shields 375, that's 125 less then a human with 0 in fitness. They're playing catchup and they never reach the starting point. Humans top out at 750, 3 times where Drell start at, twice as much as a Drell who's focused on it as well.

Definitely have some HEAVY DR when your in the middle of dodging though. If i take an Atlas rocket (on gold/silver) it basically just strips my shields instantly. If i take it mid-dodge I only take half my Shield bar which is pretty impressive. That's about how much my Krogan takes.

Which brings me to how I play my Drell Vanguard. Most classes when I'm trying to get out of the way it's mostly jogging or a roll here or there. When I was playing the Drell it was 'always' flipping. You can actually backflip to a location as fast as a human can 'run' there at full sprint. Which is kinda crazy considering you'll have massive DR most of that time.

So, Charge, and backflip out, side-flip into cover, that kind of thing. It's awkward compared to everything else but it's how you survive with that amount of crap shields. Seriously requires a level of careful the human vanguard lacks.

[GnusmasTHX]

Yeah he bad.

[22nd MadJack]

The rolling is only useful for dodging telegraphed attacks. Generic fire homes in on you regardless of your gymnastic talent. On silver, a burst from a trooper's hornet will take out your shields entirely. Honestly, I think they should at least benefit from a greater base melee damage like the turian and the krogan.

[marshalleck]

Every time I see a drellguard in a lobby I get a sense of dread, fearing a constant cycle of death -> get rezzed -> death, etc. I don't bail on or kick drellguards yet, but I really hope people figure out how to play them more effectively.

[Berkilak]

marshalleck wrote...

Every time I see a drellguard in a lobby I get a sense of dread, fearing a constant cycle of death -> get rezzed -> death, etc. I don't bail on or kick drellguards yet, but I really hope people figure out how to play them more effectively.

If it's Bronze or Silver, they shouldn't be dying. At all. On Gold, though, they simply don't have the numbers or synergy to compete relative to other classes.

[marshalleck]

The other day on silver I was with a level 20 drellguard that died literally every 20 seconds on every wave starting from the second until he quit on the eighth. The guy was astronomically bad.

Modifié par marshalleck, 28 février 2012 - 07:08 .

[Berkilak]

marshalleck wrote...

The other day on silver I was with a level 20 drellguard that died literally every 20 seconds on every wave starting from the second until he quit on the eighth. The guy was astronomically bad.

Yeah... that's his fault. Probably had a level 20 human, unlocked the drell, and tried to play it in exactly the same way. Heck, even if drell had Nova, they're be far too squishy to play as recklessly as the human allows.

[Sailears]

It would be good to keep all this to one thread, seeing as there is a new discussion every other day.

Gold - I agree it is definitely below par, mainly due to the low barrier - In fact I'd say solely due to the low barrier. You could get away with the current power set (well...).

Silver and below it beasts through with the best of them, and doesn't die any more than any other class unless you do something stupid like charging a turret.

My build is:
Charge 6 (force & damage, power synergy, barrier),
Pull 6 (radius, expose, duration & combo),
Cluster 3,
Assassin 5 (damage & capacity, power damage),
Fitness 6 (melee, melee, melee).
Running around with a scimitar (VIII at the moment) with damage and melee mods.

I find using disruptor or cryo ammo helps a lot to stun/freeze enemies when you charge into a pack (a well selected pack, not the middle of their entire unit), giving you that crucial breating room to stay alive.

You've just got to be very tactical and plan your way around the maps, make good use of pull charge detonations (in fact use pull first on anything undefended, unless you need to charge to stay alive), flip around with a good awareness of the map and cover locations, and take more care in executing your moves in real time.

Edit: the drell's movement speed is the key to success I find. You can literally run through most enemies to a new position (other than turrets) while taking little damage.

Modifié par Curunen, 28 février 2012 - 07:16 .

[Berkilak]

Curunen wrote...

It would be good to keep all this to one thread, seeing as there is a new discussion every other day.

Gold - I agree it is definitely below par, mainly due to the low barrier - In fact I'd say solely due to the low barrier. You could get away with the current power set (well...).

Silver and below it beasts through with the best of them, and doesn't die any more than any other class unless you do something stupid like charging a turret.

My build is:
Charge 6 (force & damage, power synergy, barrier),
Pull 6 (radius, expose, duration & combo),
Cluster 3,
Assassin 5 (damage & capacity, power damage),
Fitness 6 (melee, melee, melee).
Running around with a scimitar (VIII at the moment) with damage and melee mods.

I find using disruptor or cryo ammo helps a lot to stun/freeze enemies when you charge into a pack (a well selected pack, not the middle of their entire unit), giving you that crucial breating room to stay alive.

You've just got to be very tactical and plan your way around the maps, make good use of pull charge detonations (in fact use pull first on anything undefended, unless you need to charge to stay alive), flip around with a good awareness of the map and cover locations, and take more care in executing your moves in real time.

Edit: the drell's movement speed is the key to success I find. You can literally run through most enemies to a new position (other than turrets) while taking little damage.

I concur to a point (and fully on Silver). Getting more barriers would not help us to achieve the ability synergy that the best Gold classes have, but it would allow us to more safely use a more weapons-based build, however. Maybe even pop off a biotic explosion or two with Charge before running back to cover.

Cluster grenades are just too situational and unreliable. Pull, which a decent power, doesn't help too much as it only works on unshielded enemies and does little-to-no damage unless you spec for it and are able to get someone off the ground (although, admittedly, an asari and I had a few waves locked down on Gold by her Stasising the guarded enemies and me pulling the unshielded.

The only advantage Pull has is that it can be used on multiple targets without freeing those already afflicted. But an unguarded opponent is usually a dead opponent, anyway. And again, it lacks synergy.

[Sailears]

The thing with pull, if you have one defenceless opponent in a group you can pull and detonate, which whill in turn damage the surrounding ones, and you can repeat if another has been stripped (unless you need to charge to stay alive). It trivialises guardians (which I use a lot to get the heavy melee kill and weapon/melee damage bonuses going), and the detonations stunning nearby enemies can buy that crucial second to flip behind another cover.

Cluster grenades I agree. Too limited, too unreliable, and very situational, and I regret spending 3 points in them instead of going for the 30 pistol weight reduction and carrying a pistol and shotgun. Unless you spend 6 points in them, but I don't know that.

But giving up pull on this class I feel would harm it's effectiveness quite a bit.

[JohnDoe]

I think the drell is pretty much a hit and run type char.. he as very low hp.. but as the fastest reload speeds. good if you like to snipe and trow grenades everywhere.

[frostycyke]

You have a gun and you have cover, use them. the Drellguard is not an ME 2 or 3 Vangaurd, charge is not the end all be all of the character, using pull and grenades behind cover doesn't make him a weaker Adept becuase he has a much better gun damage than an adept will ever have.

The drellguard is an ME1 vangaurd where they were combat biotic users before charge became the defining move. Charge still has it's uses, but not as an opener, as a finisher.

I run him with pull able to pick up more than one target and charge hitting extra targets two, allowing me to cause 2 or more biotic explosions at once. Don't sleep on grenades, sure they are limited, but with the drell's insane fast movement speed, you can easily get to a ammo box and refill.

[Berkilak]

Curunen wrote...

The thing with pull, if you have one defenceless opponent in a group you can pull and detonate, which whill in turn damage the surrounding ones, and you can repeat if another has been stripped (unless you need to charge to stay alive). It trivialises guardians (which I use a lot to get the heavy melee kill and weapon/melee damage bonuses going), and the detonations stunning nearby enemies can buy that crucial second to flip behind another cover.

Cluster grenades I agree. Too limited, too unreliable, and very situational, and I regret spending 3 points in them instead of going for the 30 pistol weight reduction and carrying a pistol and shotgun. Unless you spend 6 points in them, but I don't know that.

But giving up pull on this class I feel would harm it's effectiveness quite a bit.

You can get that detonation off, yes, but if there enough enemies around it to warrant an explosion, you're usually as good as dead unless you can get around a corner absolutely immediately. Likewise, on a team with any amount of coordination, Guardians should be trivial already - they're an easy kill for any Sniper worth their salt, or anyone that carries a Carnifex. The ability to pull the shields is nice, yes. But it's not necessary when Guardians less of a threat than an assault trooper to a good team.

Likewise, your melee is not enough to kill those Guardians in one-shot on Gold, as you can on Bronze/Silver. I, too, took the melee spec and use the shotgun attachment. One of the biggest perks of the drellguard is the ability to use an opponent as a human shield as you heavy melee them, instantly killing them, and allowing Charge to come off of cooldown. Unfortunately, we lose the ability to one-shot troopers and pull-punch Guardians on Gold.


And I wouldn't do away with Pull. I would just alter it to make it more powerful. Maybe even give it a bit more synergy - maybe allow it to work on a pre-determined number of shielded targets. Add in the multi-target Charge, and you have some serious power going there, even on Gold.

[Sailears]

If pull has an upgrade to have a weaker effect on defended targets (reduced duration, damage, explosion force), yes that would be a huge bonus. I'm not sure how they could do that without making it overpowered. It would be a fine balancing act.

True guardians aren't really a good example, as any class can nail them quickly.

[Berkilak]

Curunen wrote...

If pull has an upgrade to have a weaker effect on defended targets (reduced duration, damage, explosion force), yes that would be a huge bonus. I'm not sure how they could do that without making it overpowered. It would be a fine balancing act.

True guardians aren't really a good example, as any class can nail them quickly.

Given that the asari Adepts will be able to get multi-target detonations solo with Stasis Bubble and Multi-Target Charge, I do not think it unreasonable. Granted, I would be fine with any changes that helped us to synergize half as well as most other classes.

[himegoto]

weakest class. a joke character even reminds me of dan from street fighters.

[CGaspur]

The Drell Vanguard is a finesse class by design but is very powerful in the right hands.
The art of playing the Drell:
- The Drell has the fastest base movement and sprint speed, take advantage of this.
- The Drell is an assassin: an extremely effective single target killer. Do not charge into mobs; pick enemies off one by one.
- You can backflip or side flip away as soon as the Biotic charge hits, take advantage of this. Never allow the enemy to be able to counter attack.
- The Drells evades cover the most distance, have no cooldown and you take 50% less damage while doing them. So keep moving!
- The Drell is pure Hit and run, charge shotgun or heavy melee and backflip away, use Cluster grenade if you are in trouble.
- Stay out of enclosed spaces with the Drell any space that boxes him in is a death trap.
- Spatial awareness is key while playing the Drell, stay near your team and always backflip towards them.
- Practice makes perfect, he is not easy to play but so rewarding when you figure the class out. I am easily hitting top scores with him on Silver and Gold runs.

[Relix28]

CGaspur wrote...

The Drell Vanguard is a finesse class by design but is very powerful in the right hands.
The art of playing the Drell:
- The Drell has the fastest base movement and sprint speed, take advantage of this.
- The Drell is an assassin: an extremely effective single target killer. Do not charge into mobs; pick enemies off one by one.
- You can backflip or side flip away as soon as the Biotic charge hits, take advantage of this. Never allow the enemy to be able to counter attack.
- The Drells evades cover the most distance, have no cooldown and you take 50% less damage while doing them. So keep moving!
- The Drell is pure Hit and run, charge shotgun or heavy melee and backflip away, use Cluster grenade if you are in trouble.
- Stay out of enclosed spaces with the Drell any space that boxes him in is a death trap.
- Spatial awareness is key while playing the Drell, stay near your team and always backflip towards them.
- Practice makes perfect, he is not easy to play but so rewarding when you figure the class out. I am easily hitting top scores with him on Silver and Gold runs.

I think this human understands.

[Kakaw]

Aedolon wrote...

Vanguard is my weakest class and just leveling it has been a chore... I played a couple games with the drell a few hours ago. Oh dear lord, I sucked so much.

If you ask me, it's the weakest character in the game so far - much weaker than human soldier. A slight boost would be in order, perhaps better shields and warp instead of cluster grenades?

don't you touch my cluster grenades. I think warp would ruin the class tho ^^ srsly, armor stripping power, for this demo??. I'm loving his toolset, just hating his barrier strength. If anything, he could use shield-stripping power for the demo, so he can be a ranged/support rather than having to rely on shotgun damage, but alas. Grenades are key and sorely needed. It's the only tool that makes him useful, because it's the only tool that takes out phantoms and clusters of enemies. Aka the only reason he has a chance at survivng atm.

Pull is a very nice little tool. Not too useful but it serves a role that no other class can fill. Stripping physical defenses, like guardian's shields and who knows what uses it has at release. Charge is a given for a vanguard, so, no. Don't touch his toolset.

Modifié par Kakaw, 28 février 2012 - 09:05 .

[Berkilak]

CGaspur wrote...

The Drell Vanguard is a finesse class by design but is very powerful in the right hands.
The art of playing the Drell:
- The Drell has the fastest base movement and sprint speed, take advantage of this.
If you're running, you're not gunning. Yes, you can reposition and evade like no one else. But that's about all you'll be doing.
- The Drell is an assassin: an extremely effective single target killer. Do not charge into mobs; pick enemies off one by one.
The single-target niche loses almost all meaning on Gold difficulty. They bring a lot more friends.
- You can backflip or side flip away as soon as the Biotic charge hits, take advantage of this. Never allow the enemy to be able to counter attack.
Again, locking down a single target is easy. It's everyone else that you need to worry about.
- The Drells evades cover the most distance, have no cooldown and you take 50% less damage while doing them. So keep moving!
See the first point. Also, there is a very slight cooldown. And enemies tend to take advantage of it.
- The Drell is pure Hit and run, charge shotgun or heavy melee and backflip away, use Cluster grenade if you are in trouble.
Again, a moot point, since you can be taken down in a fraction of a second during a heavy melee or a reload.
- Stay out of enclosed spaces with the Drell any space that boxes him in is a death trap.
Actually, they tend to be most effective. Cluster grenades absolutely shine in this situation, and "boxy" areas are rife with cover, which a drell needs to survive. Unless you are just theorycrafting that some coverless boxed area exists and we would do bad in them. I would agree there, but it's nothing but theory.
- Spatial awareness is key while playing the Drell, stay near your team and always backflip towards them.
Very obvious and applies to everyone.
- Practice makes perfect, he is not easy to play but so rewarding when you figure the class out. I am easily hitting top scores with him on Silver and Gold runs.
Silver, sure. Drellguards are biotic gods on Silver. Gold, I'll need proof.


All of this applies to Silver, but not Gold. You lay out an excellect theoretical playstyle for Gold, but it simply doesn't exist. Numerically impossible.

[Sailears]

CGaspur wrote...

The Drell Vanguard is a finesse class by design but is very powerful in the right hands.
The art of playing the Drell:
- The Drell has the fastest base movement and sprint speed, take advantage of this.
- The Drell is an assassin: an extremely effective single target killer. Do not charge into mobs; pick enemies off one by one.
- You can backflip or side flip away as soon as the Biotic charge hits, take advantage of this. Never allow the enemy to be able to counter attack.
- The Drells evades cover the most distance, have no cooldown and you take 50% less damage while doing them. So keep moving!
- The Drell is pure Hit and run, charge shotgun or heavy melee and backflip away, use Cluster grenade if you are in trouble.
- Stay out of enclosed spaces with the Drell any space that boxes him in is a death trap.
- Spatial awareness is key while playing the Drell, stay near your team and always backflip towards them.
- Practice makes perfect, he is not easy to play but so rewarding when you figure the class out. I am easily hitting top scores with him on Silver and Gold runs.

It could still do with a little barrier boost, but otherwise that's good enough for me, though I'd still like to see a video of it in action on gold; I just need more practise!

Modifié par Curunen, 28 février 2012 - 09:09 .

[Kakaw]

vonSlash wrote...

Drell do have good dodges and slightly increased movement speed to compensate for being 25% more fragile than humans.

What a pity Bioware never realized that bullets still move faster than Drell do.

33%, but the shields, that actually regenerate, are 60% weaker ^^ if you like numbers.

[Kakaw]

Darkslayer557 wrote...

FlyingWalrus wrote...

@Hiero, are you going to talk about the topic or are you just going to keep making vain attempts to get me to "get over myself"? If that particular thread was so central, maybe it wouldn't be 14 hours without a reply? It is a forum, and last I checked anyone is free to post anything to have it discussed. Maybe it's you who needs to get over yourself rather than being a forum janitor? So yes. Topic or get out, mostly for your own good.

@SimaoMelo, yes. It was mostly the surprise from trying it out last night after unlocking it that got me to make a post. I thought at first that maybe the complaints were exaggerations but... they really aren't. Drell have little chance of contributing unless they sit back and snipe or take potshots, and what then during extremely heated battles like upload objectives and extraction defense? And asking a Vanguard to sit back and snipe is, well... contradictory to say the least.

You're doing it wrong because you got used to the play style of other classes. I top charts (twice as much score as second place) with drell guard.

You said silver though. Silver is ezmd. It's not the damage/score capabilities that are in question. It's wether you are a liability to your team in gold, or not, when things get tough.

Modifié par Kakaw, 28 février 2012 - 09:13 .

[Berkilak]

Curunen wrote...

CGaspur wrote...

The Drell Vanguard is a finesse class by design but is very powerful in the right hands.
The art of playing the Drell:
- The Drell has the fastest base movement and sprint speed, take advantage of this.
- The Drell is an assassin: an extremely effective single target killer. Do not charge into mobs; pick enemies off one by one.
- You can backflip or side flip away as soon as the Biotic charge hits, take advantage of this. Never allow the enemy to be able to counter attack.
- The Drells evades cover the most distance, have no cooldown and you take 50% less damage while doing them. So keep moving!
- The Drell is pure Hit and run, charge shotgun or heavy melee and backflip away, use Cluster grenade if you are in trouble.
- Stay out of enclosed spaces with the Drell any space that boxes him in is a death trap.
- Spatial awareness is key while playing the Drell, stay near your team and always backflip towards them.
- Practice makes perfect, he is not easy to play but so rewarding when you figure the class out. I am easily hitting top scores with him on Silver and Gold runs.

It could still do with a little barrier boost, but otherwise that's good enough for me, though I'd still like to see a video of it in action on gold; I just need more practise!

Don't get me wrong - his tips will make you a better drellguard... on Silver. You simply can't be that aggressive and out in the open on Gold. You die. Instantly. Likewise, situations he puts forth (like single targets) materialize very rarely on Gold. Maybe when you're cleaning up a round. But never when things are in full swing - there are always more people than you can reasonably backflip away from on Gold.

Modifié par Berkilak, 28 février 2012 - 09:16 .

[Kakaw]

Adhin wrote...

Yeah it's not 25%, its 50%. Base Shields (and any comparible %) is ultimately half of what a humans base is. They're 500/500, Drell is 500/250. Max shields 375, that's 125 less then a human with 0 in fitness. They're playing catchup and they never reach the starting point. Humans top out at 750, 3 times where Drell start at, twice as much as a Drell who's focused on it as well.

Definitely have some HEAVY DR when your in the middle of dodging though. If i take an Atlas rocket (on gold/silver) it basically just strips my shields instantly. If i take it mid-dodge I only take half my Shield bar which is pretty impressive. That's about how much my Krogan takes.

Which brings me to how I play my Drell Vanguard. Most classes when I'm trying to get out of the way it's mostly jogging or a roll here or there. When I was playing the Drell it was 'always' flipping. You can actually backflip to a location as fast as a human can 'run' there at full sprint. Which is kinda crazy considering you'll have massive DR most of that time.

So, Charge, and backflip out, side-flip into cover, that kind of thing. It's awkward compared to everything else but it's how you survive with that amount of crap shields. Seriously requires a level of careful the human vanguard lacks.

My human ends up at 825/825, not 750.

500*(+1.65) > 750.

Curunen wrote...

The thing with pull, if you have one
defenceless opponent in a group you can pull and detonate, which whill
in turn damage the surrounding ones, and you can repeat if another has
been stripped (unless you need to charge to stay alive). It trivialises
guardians (which I use a lot to get the heavy melee kill and
weapon/melee damage bonuses going), and the detonations stunning nearby
enemies can buy that crucial second to flip behind another cover.

Cluster
grenades I agree. Too limited, too unreliable, and very situational,
and I regret spending 3 points in them instead of going for the 30
pistol weight reduction and carrying a pistol and shotgun. Unless you
spend 6 points in them, but I don't know that.

But giving up pull on this class I feel would harm it's effectiveness quite a bit.

I regret not maxing cluster grenades. They are amazing. They melt clusters of enemies, and melt phantoms, in a heartbeat. I hate sucking vs turrets, and I mainly ignore atlas' until they are alone - but even vs them, grenades are the answer, imo. Also, currently and personally, I see no reason to go beyond rank 4 in pull. Any pulled enemy (and hence also defenseless) is getting insta-killed by a charge detonation. I suppose rank 6 would help doing higher damage to a cluster, but atm grenades work better for that imo.

Modifié par Kakaw, 28 février 2012 - 09:22 .