176 réponses à ce sujet

[Relix28]

Berkilak wrote...

CGaspur wrote...

The Drell Vanguard is a finesse class by design but is very powerful in the right hands.
The art of playing the Drell:
- The Drell has the fastest base movement and sprint speed, take advantage of this.
If you're running, you're not gunning. Yes, you can reposition and evade like no one else. But that's about all you'll be doing.
- The Drell is an assassin: an extremely effective single target killer. Do not charge into mobs; pick enemies off one by one.
The single-target niche loses almost all meaning on Gold difficulty. They bring a lot more friends.
- You can backflip or side flip away as soon as the Biotic charge hits, take advantage of this. Never allow the enemy to be able to counter attack.
Again, locking down a single target is easy. It's everyone else that you need to worry about.
- The Drells evades cover the most distance, have no cooldown and you take 50% less damage while doing them. So keep moving!
See the first point. Also, there is a very slight cooldown. And enemies tend to take advantage of it.
- The Drell is pure Hit and run, charge shotgun or heavy melee and backflip away, use Cluster grenade if you are in trouble.
Again, a moot point, since you can be taken down in a fraction of a second during a heavy melee or a reload.
- Stay out of enclosed spaces with the Drell any space that boxes him in is a death trap.
Actually, they tend to be most effective. Cluster grenades absolutely shine in this situation, and "boxy" areas are rife with cover, which a drell needs to survive. Unless you are just theorycrafting that some coverless boxed area exists and we would do bad in them. I would agree there, but it's nothing but theory.
- Spatial awareness is key while playing the Drell, stay near your team and always backflip towards them.
Very obvious and applies to everyone.
- Practice makes perfect, he is not easy to play but so rewarding when you figure the class out. I am easily hitting top scores with him on Silver and Gold runs.
Silver, sure. Drellguards are biotic gods on Silver. Gold, I'll need proof.


All of this applies to Silver, but not Gold. You lay out an excellect theoretical playstyle for Gold, but it simply doesn't exist. Numerically impossible.

God, I so wish I had recording equipement right now. I love proving people wrong. Especially, when they say something is impossible.

[Berkilak]

Relix28 wrote...

God, I so wish I had recording equipement right now. I love proving people wrong. Especially, when they say something is impossible.

A screenshot or a picture of your TV screen will do fine, of the accolade screen post-match. 

Modifié par Berkilak, 28 février 2012 - 09:22 .

[Berkilak]

Again, don't get me wrong. Drellguards can even be competent on Gold when played defensively. I do often overstate the issue, I realize this. But you are simply better off picking something else to benefit your team more on Gold. We are the absolute gods of Silver, particularly when played with the above-described playstyle. But again, it doesn't apply to Gold. Even human Vanguards cannot be so reckless and expect to live. It takes a very different playstyle to remain effective on Gold.

[Sailears]

This discussion reminds me of the ME2 vanguard.

I'm not saying it will be in the same way; perhaps it is a matter of nailing down the techniques and talent point allocation, or perhaps it does need a little boost to help it help the team. I'm not sure at the moment. Silver and below it is a beast, and so no need to discuss anything there.

But yeah I'd like to see a video of some successful gold play (and build), to get a better idea of how to deal with some of the more challenging situations - multiple (more than 3) phantoms/turrets/atlases, and a load of minor troops thrown in.


Edit: I have a feeling a proper shotgun will help this build a lot - at the moment there's not much for choice in weapons.
Maybe the GPS or similar defence stripping and accurate shotgun will be the key factor.

Modifié par Curunen, 28 février 2012 - 10:09 .

[shepskisaac]

CGaspur wrote...

The Drell Vanguard is a finesse class by design but is very powerful in the right hands.
The art of playing the Drell:
- The Drell has the fastest base movement and sprint speed, take advantage of this.
- The Drell is an assassin: an extremely effective single target killer. Do not charge into mobs; pick enemies off one by one.
- You can backflip or side flip away as soon as the Biotic charge hits, take advantage of this. Never allow the enemy to be able to counter attack.
- The Drells evades cover the most distance, have no cooldown and you take 50% less damage while doing them. So keep moving!
- The Drell is pure Hit and run, charge shotgun or heavy melee and backflip away, use Cluster grenade if you are in trouble.
- Stay out of enclosed spaces with the Drell any space that boxes him in is a death trap.
- Spatial awareness is key while playing the Drell, stay near your team and always backflip towards them.
- Practice makes perfect, he is not easy to play but so rewarding when you figure the class out. I am easily hitting top scores with him on Silver and Gold runs.

This is all absolutely true, however, the problem is the incredible gap in difficulty of learning Drellguard compared to Human Vanguard. And with the upcoming Asari Vanguard, who will have the most overpowered combo in the entire game with Charge + Statis Bubble, the gap will get even more ridiculous. I love Drellguard and got very good at using him, but I still wish his Barrier could be buffed up a bit. On Gold, it takes 1 hit from any enemy to destory Drellguard's entire barrier. He SHOULD be different and more fragile compared to other Vanguards, but IMO it went a bit too far :/

Modifié par IsaacShep, 28 février 2012 - 10:16 .

[marshalleck]

CGaspur wrote...

- Stay out of enclosed spaces with the Drell any space that boxes him in is a death trap.

Hmm, I guess Thane didn't get the memo. 

[Omega-202]

I really believe that players haven't realized the full potential of the class yet.

In time, I have a feeling that there will be a handful of players who will absolutely be able to wreck with the Drell but its going to take a lot of respec's and time to figure it out.

[Sailears]

Omega-202 wrote...

I really believe that players haven't realized the full potential of the class yet.

In time, I have a feeling that there will be a handful of players who will absolutely be able to wreck with the Drell but its going to take a lot of respec's and time to figure it out.

Yeah respecs, and access to a whole load more weapons and mods. It'll be fun for sure though!

Modifié par Curunen, 28 février 2012 - 10:28 .

[marshalleck]

Curunen wrote...
Yeah respecs, and access to a whole load more weapons and mods. It'll be fun for sure though!

Indeed. I haven't written off any class and won't until I see all the maps, weapons, mods, and enemy types in action. 

[Berkilak]

IsaacShep wrote...

CGaspur wrote...

The Drell Vanguard is a finesse class by design but is very powerful in the right hands.
The art of playing the Drell:
- The Drell has the fastest base movement and sprint speed, take advantage of this.
- The Drell is an assassin: an extremely effective single target killer. Do not charge into mobs; pick enemies off one by one.
- You can backflip or side flip away as soon as the Biotic charge hits, take advantage of this. Never allow the enemy to be able to counter attack.
- The Drells evades cover the most distance, have no cooldown and you take 50% less damage while doing them. So keep moving!
- The Drell is pure Hit and run, charge shotgun or heavy melee and backflip away, use Cluster grenade if you are in trouble.
- Stay out of enclosed spaces with the Drell any space that boxes him in is a death trap.
- Spatial awareness is key while playing the Drell, stay near your team and always backflip towards them.
- Practice makes perfect, he is not easy to play but so rewarding when you figure the class out. I am easily hitting top scores with him on Silver and Gold runs.

This is all absolutely true, however, the problem is the incredible gap in difficulty of learning Drellguard compared to Human Vanguard. And with the upcoming Asari Vanguard, who will have the most overpowered combo in the entire game with Charge + Statis Bubble, the gap will get even more ridiculous. I love Drellguard and got very good at using him, but I still wish his Barrier could be buffed up a bit. On Gold, it takes 1 hit from any enemy to destory Drellguard's entire barrier. He SHOULD be different and more fragile compared to other Vanguards, but IMO it went a bit too far :/

Even during all his fancy flips, taking into consideration the DR, he still only has 80% or less of a human Vanguard's shield while he just stands there. Likewise, as danced around by CGaspur, there is no synergy. It really seems as it drell Adept was designed first, then they just decided to stick Charge in there instead of Reave as see how it plays out.

Modifié par Berkilak, 28 février 2012 - 10:50 .

[Kakaw]

Yay, I just got 83.6k points in a gold run (drellguard!). We died at wave 10, got uploading mission and got surrounded by atlas + turrets + phantoms, well you know, the standard ^^, anyway, 2nd place got 55k points and was an asari adept. Seems a lvl 14 engi was dragging us down abit

Can't take screenshot(?) All I get is black picture in paint. If anyone knows a "fix", let me know quick, and I'll show you the screenie ;)lol waht the fudge was that

Modifié par Kakaw, 28 février 2012 - 11:01 .

[Berkilak]

Kakaw wrote...

Yay, I just got 83.6k points in a gold run (drellguard!). We died at wave 10, got uploading mission and got surrounded by atlas + turrets + phantoms, well you know, the standard ^^, anyway, 2nd place got 55k points and was an asari adept. Seems a lvl 14 engi was dragging us down abit

Can't take screenshot(?) All I get is black picture in paint. If anyone knows a "fix", let me know quick, and I'll show you the screenie

Not bad at all.  Care to detail your style a bit? Loadout? You're one of the few drellguard players that I actually trust around here.

Modifié par Berkilak, 28 février 2012 - 10:57 .

[shepskisaac]

I think the most important thing for a Drellguard is to stay with the teammates. You shouldn't wander off on your own like Human Vanguard can unless it's just 1 enemy or the situation is completely desperate

Modifié par IsaacShep, 28 février 2012 - 11:03 .

[Purple Protector]

CGaspur wrote...

The Drell Vanguard is a finesse class by design but is very powerful in the right hands.
The art of playing the Drell:
- The Drell has the fastest base movement and sprint speed, take advantage of this.
Ok, that's helpsZERO against the aimbots and Phantom projectiles disabling your shields from like 10 miles away. His fast movement would be a good reason for having him as some kind of a support medic role. But even here the drell sucks, cauz the infiltrator can get this job done muuuuuch better (camooooooo!)

- The Drell is an assassin: an extremely effective single target killer. Do not charge into mobs; pick enemies off one by one.
Assassin. Well, why is he not an infiltrator then? ^^ An assissins job is to stay unseen, not rushing into the enemies like a biotic suicide commando. Why would you ever use him on gold difficulty? He dies instantly. Man, even the soldier is a better choice here.

- You can backflip or side flip away as soon as the Biotic charge hits, take advantage of this. Never allow the enemy to be able to counter attack
Enemies auto aim ruins that and not to mention that the cerberus electric knife (or whatever it is) can hit you EVEN if you are already out of range. It happens so many time in the game. And even nemesis units can no scope you one shot while running away, no matter how awesome your dashs and movements are. Atlas rocketlauncher anyone?

- The Drells evades cover the most distance, have no cooldown and you take 50% less damage while doing them. So keep moving!
ok, I see the point. But he also is the biggest target then cauz his arms and legs flattering around all over the place while doing the dash. But the 50% less damage is at least one good thing.

- The Drell is pure Hit and run, charge shotgun or heavy melee and backflip away, use Cluster grenade if you are in trouble.
hm, how else would you use a vanguard? Using a pistol or SMG?

- Stay out of enclosed spaces with the Drell any space that boxes him in is a death trap.
Counts for ALL classes especially on higher difficulties. And it's more like a generel tip how to fight the enemies if you ask me.

- Spatial awareness is key while playing the Drell, stay near your team and always backflip towards them.
another tip how to play the game. And why would you make him a vanguard then when his only job is NOT pushing the enemies but running away like a little kid to its mommy and daddy every single time.

- Practice makes perfect, he is not easy to play but so rewarding when you figure the class out. I am easily hitting top scores with him on Silver and Gold runs.
He is one of the worst races you can pic as a vanguard. Sorry, for saying this. I'm at max level and tried different tactcis with him. I tried Gold with a good team (we made GOLD several times) and in the end I switched to the human Vanguard (who also has the NOVA ability). I asked one of my buddies who plays as a vanguard since ME2 and also confirms that he is just a bad choice for higher difficulties. At least push his barriers a bit. And why he has such random shield and health values?
Oh and his regular melee attack is sooo pointless. Please give him a the regular faster 3 hit combo. It's a better way to stun your enemies.

Modifié par Purple Protector, 28 février 2012 - 11:10 .

[Berkilak]

Purple Protector wrote...

CGaspur wrote...

The Drell Vanguard is a finesse class by design but is very powerful in the right hands.
The art of playing the Drell:
- The Drell has the fastest base movement and sprint speed, take advantage of this.
Ok, that's helpsZERO against the aimbots and Phantom projectiles disabling your shields from like 10 miles away. His fast movement would be a good reason for having him as some kind of a support medic role. But even here the drell sucks, cauz the infiltrator can get this job done muuuuuch better (camooooooo!)

- The Drell is an assassin: an extremely effective single target killer. Do not charge into mobs; pick enemies off one by one.
Assassin. Well, why is he not an infiltrator then? ^^ An assissins job is to stay unseen, not rushing into the enemies like a biotic suicide commando. Why would you ever use him on gold difficulty? He dies instantly. Man, even the soldier is a better choice here.

- You can backflip or side flip away as soon as the Biotic charge hits, take advantage of this. Never allow the enemy to be able to counter attack
Enemies auto aim ruins that and not to mention that the cerberus electric knife (or whatever it is) can hit you EVEN if you are already out of range. It happens so many time in the game. And even nemesis units can no scope you one shot while running away, no matter how awesome your dashs and movements are. Atlas rocketlauncher anyone?

- The Drells evades cover the most distance, have no cooldown and you take 50% less damage while doing them. So keep moving!
ok, I see the point. But he also is the biggest target then cauz his arms and legs flattering around all over the place while doing the dash. But the 50% less damage is at least one good thing.

- The Drell is pure Hit and run, charge shotgun or heavy melee and backflip away, use Cluster grenade if you are in trouble.
hm, how else would you use a vanguard? Using a pistol or SMG?

- Stay out of enclosed spaces with the Drell any space that boxes him in is a death trap.
Counts for ALL classes especially on higher difficulties. And it's more like a generel tip how to fight the enemies if you ask me.

- Spatial awareness is key while playing the Drell, stay near your team and always backflip towards them.
another tip how to play the game. And why would you make him a vanguard then when his only job is NOT pushing the enemies but running away like a little kid to its mommy and daddy every single time.

- Practice makes perfect, he is not easy to play but so rewarding when you figure the class out. I am easily hitting top scores with him on Silver and Gold runs.
He is one of the worst races you can pic as a vanguard. Sorry, for saying this. I'm at max level and tried different tactcis with him. I tried Gold with a good team (we made GOLD several times) and in the end I switched to the human Vanguard. I asked one of my buddies who plays as a vanguard since ME2 and also confirms that he is just a bad choice for higher difficulties. At least push his barriers a bit. And why he has such random shield and health values?
Oh and his regular melee attack is soooo damn pointless. Please give him a standard faster 3 hit combo.

I just think that this particular developer has confused how the class should play in concept, how he intends it to play, with how it plays in reality (at least on Gold).

[shepskisaac]

Berkilak wrote...

I just think that this particular developer has confused how the class should play in concept, how he intends it to play, with how it plays in reality (at least on Gold).

I play my Drellguard more or less the way Corey described so no, it's not "the wrong way". It can be very effective. The problem is that no matter how you play on gold, which style etc, your barrier will go down in a single shot.

[Someone With Mass]

IsaacShep wrote...
He SHOULD be different and more fragile compared to other Vanguards, but IMO it went a bit too far :/

Especially when even the quarian can last longer.

[Berkilak]

IsaacShep wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

I just think that this particular developer has confused how the class should play in concept, how he intends it to play, with how it plays in reality (at least on Gold).

I play my Drellguard more or less the way Corey described so no, it's not "the wrong way". It can be very effective. The problem is that no matter how you play on gold, which style etc, your barrier will go down in a single shot.

I'm not saying that it's the wrong way. Just that the numbers do not support the goal.

[Purple Protector]

Concept and theory is ok and all. But the result fails. The drell actually should be an infiltrator OR should get a barrier boost. I think for the infiltrator it's already too late but I I'm sure we will see an update with changed barrier values.

[Delta 57 Dash]

Being N7 120, and having made my Drell WAY after I screwed up my Human build, I feel to need to respond to this:

CGaspur wrote...

The Drell Vanguard is a finesse class by design but is very powerful in the right hands.
The art of playing the Drell:
- The Drell has the fastest base movement and sprint speed, take advantage of this.

Yes, this can be used to get back into cover.  Unfortunately, his low shields usually mean that he's half dead by the time he gets there.  Literally, on Gold difficulty, ANY ranged attack breaks his shields. ANY.

- The Drell is an assassin: an extremely effective single target killer. Do not charge into mobs; pick enemies off one by one.

... no he isn't.  Drell Vanguard vs. Phantom is going to end VERY badly for the Drell.  He can charge the phantom once, then the phantom breaks his shields with hand-cannon and kills him.  Pull is useless vs. barriers, as is the grenade.  If he runs, she shoots him.  If he doesn't, her sword will end him very quickly.

 
- You can backflip or side flip away as soon as the Biotic charge hits, take advantage of this. Never allow the enemy to be able to counter attack.

This... is a good tip.  Drell, write this one down.

 
- The Drells evades cover the most distance, have no cooldown and you take 50% less damage while doing them. So keep moving!

An excellent point, but "keep moving" and "gold" are antithetical.  Moving outside of cover on gold is asking to be shot by the hordes of enemies just around the corner and continuously spawning.  After everything has spawned, sure, moving is good, but prior to that you are just ASKING to run into a fresh spawn of 2-4 phantoms + an atlas.

 
- The Drell is pure Hit and run, charge shotgun or heavy melee and backflip away, use Cluster grenade if you are in trouble.

Cluster grenade does nothing against anything with shields. Or Armor. Or Barrier.

 
- Stay out of enclosed spaces with the Drell any space that boxes him in is a death trap.

- Spatial awareness is key while playing the Drell, stay near your team and always backflip towards them.

These seem more like general "how to not be stupid" than "How to play the Drell"...

 
- Practice makes perfect, he is not easy to play but so rewarding when you figure the class out. I am easily hitting top scores with him on Silver and Gold runs.

I have no freaking clue how you are hitting top score on gold.  A Salarian Infiltrator should be knocking over enemies left and right, or some sniper somewhere should be getting a kill every 3-4 seconds, whereas the drell is relegated to charging isolated elites.

It might help if you posted your class build, what weapons you use, and some gameplay videos of you hitting these top scores on gold...

[Kakaw]

Berkilak wrote...

Kakaw wrote...

Yay, I just got 83.6k points in a gold run (drellguard!). We died at wave 10, got uploading mission and got surrounded by atlas + turrets + phantoms, well you know, the standard ^^, anyway, 2nd place got 55k points and was an asari adept. Seems a lvl 14 engi was dragging us down abit

Can't take screenshot(?) All I get is black picture in paint. If anyone knows a "fix", let me know quick, and I'll show you the screenie

Not bad at all.  Care to detail your style a bit? Loadout? You're one of the few drellguard players that I actually trust around here.

Ok so, basically, at first, I was lost as how to play him, so my setup is rank 5 charge, rank 5 pull and rank 5 grenades, rank 6 fitness (!! extra speed and barrier ofc ) EDIT: I use the scimitar shotty, and have 170% weight bonus total. Damage and melee damage mods.

So what I do is basically utilize all 3 powers. Pull anything that isnt blue (shielded) or purple (barrier, obv) and then charge = biotic explosion. Ok, so all reds fall before your feet. Doesn't really matter how many, just make sure they are pulled beforehand so you can get in and out and leave everything dead.

Then there's charge + shotgun which is my main damage vs anything shielded. Stasis is obviously awesome support for a drellguard, and lets me play reckless, but if I do charge into 3+ with a centaurion (the most bad-ass enemy until engineers and phantoms pop up) I'll just throw grenades at the ground, or directly onto someones head and they explode instantly, and everything flies 100 ft into the sky or anywhere. It's A W E S O M E. I laugh every time. Yeah, aiming grenades directly at the head of an enemy is the most reliable way.

Which leads to how I take out phantoms:  Grenades!! Since the drell is fast, I don't mind taking 15 seconds running around the map and restocking them. If that is not an option, I hit 8 to restock all ammo (works on nades ). Ok, so basically I charge onto a phantom (maybe hit it with shottie while i run towards it if it doesnt see me; point is Get Close(!)), throw a grenade to its head (first few times you might fail, but then you'll have a 95% success rate at close range) and either all the barriers go down (lucky!) or she sits there unaffected cause she does that weird "phase out" thing (unlucky!) Or somewhere in between (typically); and I just throw 2 grenades to be sure - at which point she is probably sent flying, but either way I pull her in, or charge after (if possible). All this can be done quite safely. Even works if you're surrounded by multiple phantoms.

Let's continue about the grenades for a while. You know how lesser units clump up around atlas' sometimes? Well, ezmode. Toss the atlas 1-2-3 grenades and everything around it dies. They try to flank through some doorway or are clustering up inside a building? Toss 1-2 grenades directly onto something inside and they blow up everything, instantly. Oh so you're far away from the cluster of enemies? No worries - charge in and do cluster grenades (works better than nova but you might need to toss 2 to be safe). And yeah, feel free to start off with a pull. Always start off with a pull if possible. Pull + charge = biotic explosion. Follow up with grenades and watch everything fly.

Other than that I just charge around using my shotgun. 1-2-3 enemies in a room or on their own, I just look for something to pull, then charge it, then shotgun + melee. If there's nothing to pull I charge in and watch my shield or possible good targets for my grenade, in case things go ugly. Also in 1v1 situations vs engineer or centaurion, I'll often use pull instead of charge to keep it staggered - cause once it starts shooting it gets bad. Also I found out just walking around normally is good for dodging. Just walk around sideways, or do a dodge with space - doesn't matter, just buy time for the next charge or run around the nearest corner.

Now, turrets absolutely **** you over. I have not found a way to take down turrets... Once I found a turret on its own, I mean really, it was just me and the turret. It had no shield, only armor left. I was quite a distance away but I threw 2 grenades on it and got it to 1/3rd armor, thinking I could save my last grenade for later. I charge on it in an attempt to just finish it off and be done; but, before I can even fire my shotgun, after the charge animation is done, it drops me (I was at full health and shield!!!)! Like a fly. God so horrible ^^


Lately I've had to hit "escape" and check if it REALLY is gold and not bronze or silver. Just to make sure, cause I could not believe.

Modifié par Kakaw, 28 février 2012 - 11:24 .

[Kakaw]

- The Drell is an assassin: an extremely effective single target killer. Do not charge into mobs; pick enemies off one by one.

...
no he isn't.  Drell Vanguard vs. Phantom is going to end VERY badly for
the Drell.  He can charge the phantom once, then the phantom breaks his
shields with hand-cannon and kills him.  Pull is useless vs. barriers,
as is the grenade.  If he runs, she shoots him.  If he doesn't, her
sword will end him very quickly.

- The Drell is pure Hit and run, charge shotgun or heavy melee and backflip away, use Cluster grenade if you are in trouble.

Cluster grenade does nothing against anything with shields. Or Armor. Or Barrier.

That's sooo wrong. Cluster grenades rape everything shield and barrier. It is basically an "i-win" button. Use it.


All I can say is to hang in there. It gets awesome
Personally I would not mind if he had something like 500 barriers when maxed - cause he is afterall a vanguard, and human vanguard feels sooooooooooooo easymode after having played drell a while that it is quite silly. Also, a bit more barrier for the drell will allow you to add a higher difficulty at some point, I suppose; while I don't think it will make him overpowered. 500 barriers won't let him do noticeably more, just be more reliable, while human vanguard will still out-dps the drell. So idk ~ Give him 300 base barrier, that's a small start and might be enough.

Edit: fixed the quote properly, sry ^^

Modifié par Kakaw, 28 février 2012 - 11:29 .

[DiebytheSword]

Yeah, as long as I see the Phantom before she see's me I drop 2 grenade clusters in her direction and pepper her area with fire.

[the almighty moo]

i find the best way is to use a drellguard as support, such as a carnifex with scope or a sniper rifle, spamming pull and then just doing target practice while they float around helplessly.

also cluster grenades at point blank range can mince an atlas

[Sailears]

Damn, now I wish I'd either ignored cluster grenades, or spent a lot more points in them!

Even at rank 3 they're reasonably powerful and cause serious damage on a direct hit, but it's a pain having to constantly run back to a supply box. However I did completely forget about the restock ability! I should really use that more often.