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The Drell Vanguard is really REALLY fragile.


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#76
TeaL3af

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CGaspur wrote...

The Drell Vanguard is a finesse class by design but is very powerful in the right hands.
The art of playing the Drell:
- The Drell has the fastest base movement and sprint speed, take advantage of this.
- The Drell is an assassin: an extremely effective single target killer. Do not charge into mobs; pick enemies off one by one.
- You can backflip or side flip away as soon as the Biotic charge hits, take advantage of this. Never allow the enemy to be able to counter attack.
- The Drells evades cover the most distance, have no cooldown and you take 50% less damage while doing them. So keep moving!
- The Drell is pure Hit and run, charge shotgun or heavy melee and backflip away, use Cluster grenade if you are in trouble.
- Stay out of enclosed spaces with the Drell any space that boxes him in is a death trap.
- Spatial awareness is key while playing the Drell, stay near your team and always backflip towards them.
- Practice makes perfect, he is not easy to play but so rewarding when you figure the class out. I am easily hitting top scores with him on Silver and Gold runs.



Interesting, haven't really played much of either vanguard but will give Drell a try with this stratergy. Do you have a recommended build?

#77
Kakaw

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Curunen wrote...

Damn, now I wish I'd either ignored cluster grenades, or spent a lot more points in them!

Even at rank 3 they're reasonably powerful and cause serious damage on a direct hit, but it's a pain having to constantly run back to a supply box. However I did completely forget about the restock ability! I should really use that more often.


I think they're amazing. Wish I had them rank 6, maxed with +50% dmg and force.
Also the 100% bonus vs lifted targets is useless currently (vs cerberus). So go for 3 grenades-stock. They are what lets me play a close-up shotgun drellguard.

I can't wait til I get rank 6 charge at release, and fill up my barriers; but even then i miiiiight drop it for rank 6 huge pull explosions, if there's some enemy that has huge amounts of red health later on.. Mass AoE biotic explosions with charge.. But atm I don't find it that good vs cerberus, anything red I one-shot, and anything clustered I AoE pull and AoE charge sets them all off - so doesn't need more dmg.

#78
Delta 57 Dash

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Hmm... personally I've never fired a point-blank cluster grenade because I'm too freaking scared of GETTING to point-blank on anything.

I'll give him another go on silver later today...

#79
the almighty moo

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Curunen wrote...

Damn, now I wish I'd either ignored cluster grenades, or spent a lot more points in them!

Even at rank 3 they're reasonably powerful and cause serious damage on a direct hit, but it's a pain having to constantly run back to a supply box. However I did completely forget about the restock ability! I should really use that more often.


when you end up with 30 or so thermal clip packs like i have you can spam them twice a game between running to the ammo drops

cluster grenades are a sick sick grenade skill, on the first few waves you can throw them in the general area where the enemy respawn and take out like 3 to 5 enemy

Modifié par the almighty moo, 28 février 2012 - 11:39 .


#80
Sailears

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Kakaw wrote...

Curunen wrote...

Damn, now I wish I'd either ignored cluster grenades, or spent a lot more points in them!

Even at rank 3 they're reasonably powerful and cause serious damage on a direct hit, but it's a pain having to constantly run back to a supply box. However I did completely forget about the restock ability! I should really use that more often.


I think they're amazing. Wish I had them rank 6, maxed with +50% dmg and force.
Also the 100% bonus vs lifted targets is useless currently (vs cerberus). So go for 3 grenades-stock. They are what lets me play a close-up shotgun drellguard.

I can't wait til I get rank 6 charge at release, and fill up my barriers; but even then i miiiiight drop it for rank 6 huge pull explosions, if there's some enemy that has huge amounts of red health later on.. Mass AoE biotic explosions with charge.. But atm I don't find it that good vs cerberus, anything red I one-shot, and anything clustered I AoE pull and AoE charge sets them all off - so doesn't need more dmg.

Maybe worth goin 6/6/6/5/3, and max charge, pull and cluster for crazy explosions? Will have to wait till release to find out.

#81
Navasha

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I just tried messing around with the drell vanguard a bit on a few different styles. I just realized that biotic charge actually detonates a biotic explosion. Pulling someone and then charging them before they get too high off the ground is a lot of fun, and scatters groups all over the place. Will have to experiment with this in the game, since my demo build is pretty screwed up to try to do it right.

#82
Elecbender

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The Talon would complement the Drell quite well.

Just have to wait until the game comes out.

#83
Shnuckles

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My Drell loses shields & goes down very fast too. I certainly would not call their attacking power stronger than other classes, to balance them out.

#84
TeaL3af

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The incredibly low barriers are an issue, most caster classes have 500/500 starting, I think the drell has like 500/200. If you get shot a bit you will lose some health, which means you can get down to 1 bar just from general combat.

#85
Berkilak

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Berkilak wrote...

CGaspur wrote...

The Drell Vanguard is a finesse class by design but is very powerful in the right hands. 
The art of playing the Drell:
- The Drell has the fastest base movement and sprint speed, take advantage of this.
If you're running, you're not gunning. Yes, you can reposition and evade like no one else. But that's about all you'll be doing.
- The Drell is an assassin: an extremely effective single target killer. Do not charge into mobs; pick enemies off one by one.
The single-target niche loses almost all meaning on Gold difficulty. They bring a lot more friends.
- You can backflip or side flip away as soon as the Biotic charge hits, take advantage of this. Never allow the enemy to be able to counter attack.
Again, locking down a single target is easy. It's everyone else that you need to worry about.
- The Drells evades cover the most distance, have no cooldown and you take 50% less damage while doing them. So keep moving!
See the first point. Also, there is a very slight cooldown. And enemies tend to take advantage of it.
- The Drell is pure Hit and run, charge shotgun or heavy melee and backflip away, use Cluster grenade if you are in trouble.
Again, a moot point, since you can be taken down in a fraction of a second during a heavy melee or a reload.
- Stay out of enclosed spaces with the Drell any space that boxes him in is a death trap.
Actually, they tend to be most effective. Cluster grenades absolutely shine in this situation, and "boxy" areas are rife with cover, which a drell needs to survive. Unless you are just theorycrafting that some coverless boxed area exists and we would do bad in them. I would agree there, but it's nothing but theory.
- Spatial awareness is key while playing the Drell, stay near your team and always backflip towards them.
Very obvious and applies to everyone.
- Practice makes perfect, he is not easy to play but so rewarding when you figure the class out. I am easily hitting top scores with him on Silver and Gold runs.
Silver, sure. Drellguards are biotic gods on Silver. Gold, I'll need proof.


All of this applies to Silver, but not Gold. You lay out an excellect theoretical playstyle for Gold, but it simply doesn't exist. Numerically impossible.

 

Purple Protector wrote...

CGaspur wrote...

The Drell Vanguard is a finesse class by design but is very powerful in the right hands.
The art of playing the Drell:
- The Drell has the fastest base movement and sprint speed, take advantage of this.
Ok, that's helpsZERO against the aimbots and Phantom projectiles disabling your shields from like 10 miles away. His fast movement would be a good reason for having him as some kind of a support medic role. But even here the drell sucks, cauz the infiltrator can get this job done muuuuuch better (camooooooo!)

- The Drell is an assassin: an extremely effective single target killer. Do not charge into mobs; pick enemies off one by one.
Assassin. Well, why is he not an infiltrator then? ^^ An assissins job is to stay unseen, not rushing into the enemies like a biotic suicide commandoWhy would you ever use him on gold difficulty? He dies instantly. Man, even the soldier is a better choice here.

- You can backflip or side flip away as soon as the Biotic charge hits, take advantage of this. Never allow the enemy to be able to counter attack
Enemies auto aim ruins that and not to mention that the cerberus electric knife (or whatever it is) can hit you EVEN if you are already out of range. It happens so many time in the game. And even nemesis units can no scope you one shot while running away, no matter how awesome your dashs and movements are. Atlas rocketlauncher anyone?

- The Drells evades cover the most distance, have no cooldown and you take 50% less damage while doing them. So keep moving!
ok, I see the point. But he also is the biggest target then cauz his arms and legs flattering around all over the place while doing the dashBut the 50% less damage is at least one good thing.

- The Drell is pure Hit and run, charge shotgun or heavy melee and backflip away, use Cluster grenade if you are in trouble.
hm, how else would you use a vanguard? Using a pistol or SMG?

- Stay out of enclosed spaces with the Drell any space that boxes him in is a death trap.
Counts for ALL classes especially on higher difficulties. And it's more like a generel tip how to fight the enemies if you ask me.

- Spatial awareness is key while playing the Drell, stay near your team and always backflip towards them.
another tip how to play the game. And why would you make him a vanguard then when his only job is NOT pushing the enemies but running away like a little kid to its mommy and daddy every single time.

- Practice makes perfect, he is not easy to play but so rewarding when you figure the class out. I am easily hitting top scores with him on Silver and Gold runs.
He is one of the worst races you can pic as a vanguard. Sorry, for saying this. I'm at max level and tried different tactcis with him. I tried Gold with a good team (we made GOLD several times) and in the end I switched to the human Vanguard (who also has the NOVA ability). I asked one of my buddies who plays as a vanguard since ME2 and also confirms that he is just a bad choice for higher difficulties. At least push his barriers a bit. And why he has such random shield and health values?
Oh and his regular melee attack is sooo pointless. Please give him a the regular faster 3 hit combo. It's a better way to stun your enemies.


I would like to see the developer return to counter both of these posts.

#86
IlluminaZer0

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Drell Vanguard could use a shield boost. It would allow a slight increase in general margin of error and allow a Drell Vanguard a little more time to do damage after a charge. Those are the only things that would change with a shield boost.

A modest buff to shields is a very tame buff for what is arguably the weakest class in the demo.

The biggest difference between Human and Drell Vanguard is not their shields but the high amount of invulnerability frames + AoE stagger that Nova gives Human Vanguard. The problem isn't that people aren't "getting" Drell Vanguard play (just use ME2 Insanity Vanguard as playstyle reference), it's that using the Human Vanguard is comparatively brainless.

Modifié par IlluminaZer0, 29 février 2012 - 02:11 .


#87
Berkilak

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IlluminaZer0 wrote...

Drell Vanguard could use a shield boost. It would allow a slight increase in general margin of error and allow a Drell Vanguard a little more time to do damage after a charge. Those are the only things that would change with a shield boost.

A modest buff to shields is a very tame buff for what is arguably the weakest class in the demo.

The biggest difference between Human and Drell Vanguard is not their shields but the high amount of invulnerability frames + AoE stagger that Nova gives Human Vanguard. The problem isn't that people aren't "getting" Drell Vanguard play (just use ME2 Insanity Vanguard as playstyle reference), it's that using the Human Vanguard is comparatively brainless.

Precisely. If you play a Drellguard flawlessly, you are almost as good as someone that is only vaguely aware of the abilities of the human Vanguard. Toss that flawless drellguard player into the human Vanguard class, and it is absolutely ridiculous how powerful he is.

Drellguards simply don't get a return on the effort put into playing them effectively, particularly compared to other classes.

Modifié par Berkilak, 29 février 2012 - 02:14 .


#88
frostycyke

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Some people enjoy playing execution heavy characters,

C. Viper is a notorious hard character to use in SF4, certainly less forgiving than Ryu or Sagat, but in the hands on someone who knows what they are doing she wrecks. The problem is that these types of characters from any game and genre always have the hardest learning curve and take a while before the community has a handle on what they are capable of. Where as the more straight forward character top the tier lists early on due to how easy they are to win with at first.

Drell could be the worst character in the game, or the greatest once the full game drops and people begin to really develop him. either way, it's too soon to begin crying for buffs or writing the class off completely.

#89
IlluminaZer0

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frostycyke wrote...

Some people enjoy playing execution heavy characters,

C. Viper is a notorious hard character to use in SF4, certainly less forgiving than Ryu or Sagat, but in the hands on someone who knows what they are doing she wrecks. The problem is that these types of characters from any game and genre always have the hardest learning curve and take a while before the community has a handle on what they are capable of. Where as the more straight forward character top the tier lists early on due to how easy they are to win with at first.

Drell could be the worst character in the game, or the greatest once the full game drops and people begin to really develop him. either way, it's too soon to begin crying for buffs or writing the class off completely.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/9465718

When it comes to tiers and character power ease of use is irrelevant. Akira is infamously hard to use in Vitua Fighter, but no one is going to claim that Akira is underpowered because of it.

While I agree that it is likely too early to get a full picture -- Unless the future enemy types are insanely succeptible to pull not much should really change for the class as a whole. And if such enemies are excessively weak to pull, then there is little reason to not simply use the Drell Adept.

Modifié par IlluminaZer0, 29 février 2012 - 02:34 .


#90
Guest_MacDuffin_*

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Is it just me or are Drell significantly faster? I have the Vanguard and he basically glides, also I love his pull biotic, great for getting rid of Guardian shields before a charge.

#91
TeaL3af

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frostycyke wrote...

Some people enjoy playing execution heavy characters,

C. Viper is a notorious hard character to use in SF4, certainly less forgiving than Ryu or Sagat, but in the hands on someone who knows what they are doing she wrecks. The problem is that these types of characters from any game and genre always have the hardest learning curve and take a while before the community has a handle on what they are capable of. Where as the more straight forward character top the tier lists early on due to how easy they are to win with at first.

Drell could be the worst character in the game, or the greatest once the full game drops and people begin to really develop him. either way, it's too soon to begin crying for buffs or writing the class off completely.


The Drell doesn't really have any really powerful abilities that are just hard to use though. If you use him perfectly I don't see many advantages over human vanguard. Pull is better than shockwave most of the time, but being so brittle and having no close range AOE don't balance it out. Being good at taking out single targets does not really help in ME3 unless they are phantoms, and their are many other classes that do that much better anyway.

I tried playing the Drellguard a bit today and it was pretty rare that using charge actually made sense, if the target has even one friend nearby you will probably go down. I basically ended up just switching to my Phalanx and blasting everyone while occasionaly pulling a shield away from a Guardian.

I can see what the devs where intending the class to be, but he isn't equip to do even that task. I really think they should just remove his charge ability and make him into a non-CQC vanguard, replace it with something like "Biotic Dash" that works a little like charge but doesn't actually require a target, it just fires you towards your crosshair.

#92
Kakaw

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^ he is fine, except possibly for the barriers which are crazy low. It works, but his barriers can be a liability to the team. Changing his toolset changes nothing. See the adept.

Also, I claim that grenades are stronger than nova. Much harder to use correctly, but certainly better.

Modifié par Kakaw, 29 février 2012 - 03:01 .


#93
CGaspur

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I love the passion in this thread :) Some very good points.
As for my build:
- Drell Vanguard level 20
- Katana X or Hornet III
- Biotic Charge maxed for damage and barrier recharge
- Cluster grenade maxed for damage no capacity upgrades
- Fitness maxed, health/barrier
- Power damage maxed
- 1 point in pull because I am going for raw single target damage and charge spam.
Don't write him off he has much potential in the right hands. Flame shield engage ;)

#94
CGaspur

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And Frostycyke may be onto something there :)

#95
mybudgee

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I just think of the Drell Vanguard as the character equivalent of the Hammerhead/featherhead

#96
PrinceLionheart

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MacDuffin wrote...

Is it just me or are Drell significantly faster? I have the Vanguard and he basically glides, also I love his pull biotic, great for getting rid of Guardian shields before a charge.


Drell's have the fastest sprinting speed.

#97
shepskisaac

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Mr. Gaspur is there ANY hope his barrier will be boosted, even a bit, in full game? :(

Modifié par IsaacShep, 29 février 2012 - 06:40 .


#98
GracefulChicken

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frostycyke wrote...

Some people enjoy playing execution heavy characters,

C. Viper is a notorious hard character to use in SF4, certainly less forgiving than Ryu or Sagat, but in the hands on someone who knows what they are doing she wrecks. The problem is that these types of characters from any game and genre always have the hardest learning curve and take a while before the community has a handle on what they are capable of. Where as the more straight forward character top the tier lists early on due to how easy they are to win with at first.

Drell could be the worst character in the game, or the greatest once the full game drops and people begin to really develop him. either way, it's too soon to begin crying for buffs or writing the class off completely.


Focusing Vipers burn kicks is fairly common knowledge. On the off-chance they go for an ambiguous cross-up Burn Kick, focusing and option selecting most Ultras is the way to go. Viper is only harder to use because she's so execution heavy, and she relies on feint seimos to throw people off and put on pressure. Then every C. Viper does wakeup Ex. Seismo when they have the meter for it for the like 18 invincibility frames. Vipers are really easy to read, rarely to they wreck. I've talked to Latif many times, even he says Viper is alot of luck. #SF4rantyoubroughitup


Oh, drellguards are silly and you shouldn't play one, they're useless. Like Hakan.

#99
frostycyke

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I just picked SF4 since it's the most common game most people not in the scene would know, but my point still stands that characters that have a fairly straight forward design and playstyle excel the first few weeks the game is out. But things change as people get their hands on the full game and are able to invest some time. and what was thought to be too powerful at first, is actually rather weak- see iceman in MvC2, while characters that no one gave a chance turn out to be amazing in the right hands.

I'm not claiming I know how Drellguard works, or even if it can. I know what I am doing is working for me and my group of friends, but maybe it's the wrong way entirely, all I'm saying is completely writing a character off so early in a game is a mistake.

#100
dw99027

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Don't play a charger, play a Sniper with biotics and high mobility. Charge only as a last-minute lifesaver. My Drell carries the Widow and the Carnifex, has Pull on 3.3 sec cooldown and lobs grenades all day. Yeah, he's squishy but he has Charge for a reprieve and a reposisioning tool. Charge the sole enemy in the back, get to cover, and proceed to slaughter evyrything between you and your teammates. Very tactical yet very fun.