176 réponses à ce sujet

[GracefulChicken]

frostycyke wrote...

I just picked SF4 since it's the most common game most people not in the scene would know, but my point still stands that characters that have a fairly straight forward design and playstyle excel the first few weeks the game is out. But things change as people get their hands on the full game and are able to invest some time. and what was thought to be too powerful at first, is actually rather weak- see iceman in MvC2, while characters that no one gave a chance turn out to be amazing in the right hands.

I'm not claiming I know how Drellguard works, or even if it can. I know what I am doing is working for me and my group of friends, but maybe it's the wrong way entirely, all I'm saying is completely writing a character off so early in a game is a mistake.

I know, I was just messing with you. It's been a while since I've played serious street fighter with my friends, so I had to rant abit. 

I agree with your point though. I agree it's silly to write-off a character before the game is even out (especially because I've often written off extremely powerful characters before they were really learnt by the player base), but right now Drellguards dont feel like vanguards to me. Vanguards should be front-line, in the thick of everything according to everything we've seen about them so far. But drellguards cant live up to that as it stands right now in the demo. In the full game with new weapons and the ability to mess around with skill builds, it's anyones guess how they'll turn out.

[IlluminaZer0]

GracefulChicken wrote...
but right now Drellguards dont feel like vanguards to me. Vanguards should be front-line, in the thick of everything according to everything we've seen about them so far.

Mass Effect Vanguards have never been the front line "tanks" they are now.

In ME1 the kings of the frontline were Soldiers and Infiltrators (odd, I know). This was because Immunity was king, and Barrier merely overcharged shields.

Drell is actually closer to ME2 Vanguard play than Human Vanguard. ME2 Vanguards always needed a fall-back plan after a charge. Emphasis was always (especially early on) divide and conquer. Kill the stragglers, flank and pincer with your team. (Assuming Insanity)

Edited out portion of post about nuances of ME2 Vanguard play.  Love ME2 Vanguard.

Modifié par IlluminaZer0, 29 février 2012 - 07:41 .

[dw99027]

An important note. No matter the amount of damage an enemy hit nominally does, it will never dip into your health as long as you have a sliver of shield left. Considering that the most dangerous enemies one-shot your shields on Silver/Gold anyway, Drell's low barrier is not that much of a disadvantage. You just have to be more cautious than usual with Troopers. Guardians can never catch you.

[capn233]

You do have to be fairly careful with a Drell Vanguard, It is sort of like early game ME2 Vanguard (until you get Damage Protection III and the other shield upgrades like hard shields and redundant field generator).

Decided to be dumb and play a game with the Widow on it chiefly using Pull. That was amusing. Passive is "Drell Assassin" afterall.

[S1L0]

I would have more to say , but the random unlock system ....

6 upgrades to the phalanx
5 or 6 upgrades to the base pistol

NO CARNIFEX - ( give me my Carnifex )

several upgrades to classes I've already unlocked

NO KROGANS UNLOCKED
NO TURIANS UNLOCKED
NO DRELLS UNLOCKED
NO SALARIANS UNLOCKED

sigh ....

Modifié par S1L0, 29 février 2012 - 08:27 .

[jaDanger]

In one of my first games there was an amazing drellguard player and i assumed it was one of the best loved classes. I have yet to unlock it, but wonder how it will play. Does it have any good passives? I would love to see a drell infiltrator with lots of good combat buffs, kinda like the salarian can get, allowing you to appear in a group, kick the crap out of them and disappear again, reminiscent of the thane intro from me2.
The other class that gets a continual bad wrap (rap?) is the human soldier. After unlocking the billionth character card for him i decided to give it a try, and there are a few builds that make him really strong, great with a viper or mattock. I'm curious if the drell deserves such a bad reputation.

[Delta 57 Dash]

Only problem with the Drell is the fact that, on gold, one shot from anything breaks your shields. And then 2 more shots kill you. Which makes even poking your head out from cover a serious gamble.

His abilities are fantastic, his racial bonuses are great, but his shields MAXING at 388... seriously hurts him.

[Kaylord]

I took about three days (and nights) to remotely master the drellguard on silver.

Hit and run is so important that even your meleeattack, which at least rivals the krogan soldier´s, should be used very cautiously. That half a second spent on a heavy melee might be too much time already during which you eat up serious damage. Having a 20 second timeframe to follow-up another devastating heavy melee is very tempting and usually caused an early death; so I almost never use that option, and I would not skill that again.

I loved using pull and charge and run away, it is almost the same as charge-nova in terms of preparing the stagger, and usually you have at least one mob around who is pull-able.

The key for mastering him was "hit and run", and always from different directions. So I used the fast movement to run around half the map after one attack, just in order to shake aggro in preparation for the next lightning fast strike in the back.

Nevertheless, after having learned this lection, I am back with the hf vanguard, because she can use the same strategy to great success on gold, and she plays much more relaxed.

Modifié par Kaylord, 29 février 2012 - 12:35 .

[Shin0biwan]

frostycyke wrote...

Some people enjoy playing execution heavy characters,

C. Viper is a notorious hard character to use in SF4, certainly less forgiving than Ryu or Sagat, but in the hands on someone who knows what they are doing she wrecks. The problem is that these types of characters from any game and genre always have the hardest learning curve and take a while before the community has a handle on what they are capable of. Where as the more straight forward character top the tier lists early on due to how easy they are to win with at first.

Drell could be the worst character in the game, or the greatest once the full game drops and people begin to really develop him. either way, it's too soon to begin crying for buffs or writing the class off completely.

The difference is that C.Viper obviously had the tools of a high or top tier character from the start. Everyone knew that someone who could break her demanding execution barrier could keep her competitive with the best characters in the game. For the Drellguard, there's absolutely no such indication.


Also, the dev's arguments make no sense on their face. I'll repost what I said in another thread: 50% damage reduction while rolling + 1/2 barrier of human = same durability while rolling as a human who's just standing there (or actually doing something productive, like damaging and/or staggering someone). So I'm rolling around just to not even break even? That doesn't make sense - to be more effective than the human at some niche, you need to look for a different tactic.

[frostycyke]

to be more effective than the human at some niche, you need to look for a different tactic.

I think that is a given, the drellguard is not going to be better than the Manguard if played the same way, it needs a whole new style and mindset while playing it.

[IlluminaZer0]

frostycyke wrote...

to be more effective than the human at some niche, you need to look for a different tactic.

I think that is a given, the drellguard is not going to be better than the Manguard if played the same way, it needs a whole new style and mindset while playing it.

"So I'm rolling around just to not even break even? That doesn't make sense - to be more effective than the human at some niche, you need to look for a different tactic."

While the wording is odd, in the context of the sentence/paragraph he is clearly talking about Drell Vanguard's survivability and not emulating the Human Vanguard's playstyle.

Modifié par IlluminaZer0, 29 février 2012 - 02:00 .

[Berkilak]

At the very least, I received this reply to my private message:

CGaspur
10:06 PM 2012-02-28
No worries you raise some very valid points. We may give him a buff

[IlluminaZer0]

Berkilak wrote...
At the very least, I received this reply to my private message:

CGaspur
10:06 PM 2012-02-28
No worries you raise some very valid points. We may give him a buff

Not very private anymore. lol

[Berkilak]

 Developers know that nothing they say is off the record! 

[Supermarkiisi]

Haven't played the drell vanguard, but just reading the posts here makes me think that, as some others have pointed out, this class is simply quite a bit harder to master than most other classes. I mean, the devs probably figured there would be an overpopulation of drells if drell classes were as accessible as some of the others...so, they made it less accessible (krogans would probably be pretty popular too, but they sure have their weaknesses as well). But I don't know, since I haven't played the class (and thus haven't even tried to master it) it is of course possible that the drell vanguard could use a bit of buff.

[Berkilak]

Supermarkiisi wrote...

Haven't played the drell vanguard, but just reading the posts here makes me think that, as some others have pointed out, this class is simply quite a bit harder to master than most other classes. I mean, the devs probably figured there would be an overpopulation of drells if drell classes were as accessible as some of the others...so, they made it less accessible (krogans would probably be pretty popular too, but they sure have their weaknesses as well). But I don't know, since I haven't played the class (and thus haven't even tried to master it) it is of course possible that the drell vanguard could use a bit of buff.

The class is harder to master. But that isn't the issue - once mastered, the role it fills, even when detailed by a developer, simply doesn't apply to Gold, particularly when it is filled by classes who can do the same thing a lot easier with little-to-no risk and to multiple opponents instead of a single one.

It's a lot of effort for very little payoff.

[Sailears]

^Yeah it's not the class to chill out with if you're stressed or tired, because you'll **** up more often than not.

Thanks for sharing the PM, good to know they might decide to do something about it.

[frostycyke]

Berkilak wrote...

At the very least, I received this reply to my private message:

CGaspur
10:06 PM 2012-02-28
No worries you raise some very valid points. We may give him a buff

I'd laugh my ass off if the buff they give him is an even faster run/sprint/reload speed and a 75% DR while rolling, while still keeping his shield where it is.

[Berkilak]

BhelShep wrote...

Hate to play devil's advocate, but I've been playing Drellguard for 2 days on Silver and having a blast He's got a stepper learning curve, but once you master him, he's a beast. Very fast and agile, hits fast and hard, just keep him moving and dodging in-between attacks. Charge is also very useful on that matter. Love him. =)

BUT (big but) - haven't played him on Gold yet so yes, maybe he could use a boost to max upgraded shields. Just don't make him a tank or anything...

Bolded the key words. He's a biotic god on Silver. No one is contesting that.

[Sailears]

BhelShep wrote...

Hate to play devil's advocate, but I've been playing Drellguard for 2 days on Silver and having a blast He's got a stepper learning curve, but once you master him, he's a beast. Very fast and agile, hits fast and hard, just keep him moving and dodging in-between attacks. Charge is also very useful on that matter. Love him. =)

BUT (big but) - haven't played him on Gold yet so yes, maybe he could use a boost to max upgraded shields. Just don't make him a tank or anything...

Yes he kicks the proverbial backside on silver.

It's gold where the issues become apparent.

[titoarc]

i was playing with it and i already am preaty good on silver , trying gold today

[Kakaw]

Yey, just beat gold with my drellguard. I got #1 score with 95k. 2nd was 69k and 3rd 50k.

So. It can be done

Didn't get full extraction cuz someone got insta-gibbed by phantom ^^

Modifié par Kakaw, 29 février 2012 - 07:24 .

[VirtualAlex]

CGaspur wrote...

The Drell Vanguard is a finesse class by design but is very powerful in the right hands.
The art of playing the Drell:
- The Drell has the fastest base movement and sprint speed, take advantage of this.
- The Drell is an assassin: an extremely effective single target killer. Do not charge into mobs; pick enemies off one by one.
- You can backflip or side flip away as soon as the Biotic charge hits, take advantage of this. Never allow the enemy to be able to counter attack.
- The Drells evades cover the most distance, have no cooldown and you take 50% less damage while doing them. So keep moving!
- The Drell is pure Hit and run, charge shotgun or heavy melee and backflip away, use Cluster grenade if you are in trouble.
- Stay out of enclosed spaces with the Drell any space that boxes him in is a death trap.
- Spatial awareness is key while playing the Drell, stay near your team and always backflip towards them.
- Practice makes perfect, he is not easy to play but so rewarding when you figure the class out. I am easily hitting top scores with him on Silver and Gold runs.

Wow super interesting tips here. How are we supposed to know that his Evade has damage reduction? Is this stated anywhere? Do other races have hidden attributes like this or do all evades take 50% less damage when doing them?

Is his ability to backflip after a charge unique? Can the other vaguards not do that?

[shepskisaac]

Berkilak wrote...

At the very least, I received this reply to my private message:

CGaspur
10:06 PM 2012-02-28
No worries you raise some very valid points. We may give him a buff

YESSSS!!!! Best news EVER!!!!! :O:O