176 réponses à ce sujet

[Kakaw]

IsaacShep wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

At the very least, I received this reply to my private message:

CGaspur
10:06 PM 2012-02-28
No worries you raise some very valid points. We may give him a buff

YESSSS!!!! Best news EVER!!!!! :O:O

Maybe I should just shut up then :X 

While I see he can be just as successful as anyone else, he does have some moments such as these: 'O-****, there was an assault trooper behind that corner that I didn't see, so it killed me in 0.1 sec', while no other class has this, by far ^^. The drellguard is by far the most stressful and requires reflexes and awareness of where everything is and where everything spawns - alot more than any other class. To the point where going back to human vanguard or asari adept or salarian infiltrator (or w/e else) becomes totally easy-mode and a snore fest on gold ^^

At this point I would hate for them to change his toolset; but rather just buff his barriers so everything comes together in a slightly more forgiving bundle... What annoys me is putting 21 power points into fitness, and gaining only 138 barriers. It doesn't add up.

Modifié par Kakaw, 29 février 2012 - 08:29 .

[VirtualAlex]

Yeah I kinda just let go of pumping barrier and opted to pump damage and cooldowns or bonus effects. I event took the charge that hits multiple people and resets it's cooldown.

[Berkilak]

VirtualAlex wrote...

Yeah I kinda just let go of pumping barrier and opted to pump damage and cooldowns or bonus effects. I event took the charge that hits multiple people and resets it's cooldown.

Since I didn't opt for that on either Vanguard, I ask this: does it set off multiple biotic explosions if you hit a Stasis'd group? Or only the primary target?

[marshalleck]

I can't complete a single damn mission with my drell vanguard without bugging and flying up into the sky or falling through the world.

[Moose Invictus]

CGaspur wrote...

The Drell Vanguard is a finesse class by design but is very powerful in the right hands.
The art of playing the Drell:
- The Drell has the fastest base movement and sprint speed, take advantage of this.
- The Drell is an assassin: an extremely effective single target killer. Do not charge into mobs; pick enemies off one by one.
- You can backflip or side flip away as soon as the Biotic charge hits, take advantage of this. Never allow the enemy to be able to counter attack.
- The Drells evades cover the most distance, have no cooldown and you take 50% less damage while doing them. So keep moving!
- The Drell is pure Hit and run, charge shotgun or heavy melee and backflip away, use Cluster grenade if you are in trouble.
- Stay out of enclosed spaces with the Drell any space that boxes him in is a death trap.
- Spatial awareness is key while playing the Drell, stay near your team and always backflip towards them.
- Practice makes perfect, he is not easy to play but so rewarding when you figure the class out. I am easily hitting top scores with him on Silver and Gold runs.

^  What he said.

[UK Wildcat]

Hey Gaspur, the problem with flame shield being engaged is that the threshold is very low due to the low barrier. It may be of more benefit to dodge and run around the internet like a drell assassin, because everyone knows allowing trolls to simply unload on you won't work as a drell.

[Eric Fagnan]

The demo allowed us to gather a lot of feedback on all the kits and we will be making balance changes to many of them as the game comes out. We'll keep you posted on all the changes.

[Shin0biwan]

Eric ****nan wrote...

The demo allowed us to gather a lot of feedback on all the kits and we will be making balance changes to many of them as the game comes out. We'll keep you posted on all the changes.

I really hope that doesn't mean an abundance of nerfs. People complain a lot about the Human Vanguard, but it's totally unwarranted. If you take away their niche of being able to clear trash quickly and safely (while doing minimal damage to armored targets and people who can kill them during their brief periods between invincibility frames), then they'll be in serious trouble. Taking away invincibility frames as soon as a Nova is cancelled is the ony reasonable change I can think to make for them (and even that isn't nearly as abusable as people think - there are vulnerable frames right after charge connects and at the end of the roll where Vanguards can easily be killed by the enemies who are supposed to kill them in the first place).

I really hope these balance changes are buffs to the weaker race/class combos: Human Sentinel, Drell Vanguard, and possibly Quarian Engineer and Human Soldier.

Please, buff the subpar race/class combos, but dont swing the nerfhammer just yet.

Modifié par Shin0biwan, 01 mars 2012 - 12:39 .

[frostycyke]

Shin0biwan wrote...

Eric ****nan wrote...

The demo allowed us to gather a lot of feedback on all the kits and we will be making balance changes to many of them as the game comes out. We'll keep you posted on all the changes.

I really hope that doesn't mean an abundance of nerfs. People complain a lot about the Human Vanguard, but it's totally unwarranted. If you take away their niche of being able to clear trash quickly and safely (while doing minimal damage to armored targets and people who can kill them during their brief periods between invincibility frames), then they'll be in serious trouble. Taking away invincibility frames as soon as a Nova is cancelled is the ony reasonable change I can think to make for them (and even that isn't nearly as abusable as people think - there are vulnerable frames right after charge connects and at the end of the roll where Vanguards can easily be killed by the enemies who are supposed to kill them in the first place).

I really hope these balance changes are buffs to the weaker race/class combos: Human Sentinel, Drell Vanguard, and possibly Quarian Engineer and Human Soldier.

Please, buff the subpar race/class combos, but dont swing the nerfhammer just yet.

This times a million. No one likes nerfing at all, but everyone loves buffing.

[Busfull]

Wow, thanks Bioware staff, I use my Drell a lot now and it perfectly fits my playing style now I know how to use it. Being srs.

[Eric Fagnan]

Of course it's always better to buff than to nerf, but you can't always do that. I can say that we only have a single nerf under consideration and the rest are buffs

[titoarc]

Eric ****nan wrote...

Of course it's always better to buff than to nerf, but you can't always do that. I can say that we only have a single nerf under consideration and the rest are buffs

Could you tell us whats the nerf ?  Please ?

Modifié par titoarc, 01 mars 2012 - 01:12 .

[Shin0biwan]

titoarc wrote...

Eric ****nan wrote...

Of course it's always better to buff than to nerf, but you can't always do that. I can say that we only have a single nerf under consideration and the rest are buffs

Could you tell us whats the nerf ?  Please ?

Or if you can't, what category of thing it is (power, class, race, weapon, equipment)?

Thank you for the info so far, and thanks even more for being open to discussion and criticism.

[Echo Six Grimez]

Wow... you continue to impress me Bioware, with the Mod / Devs quick responses to threads which have legit meaning, i don't get any of that from DICE over on the Battlefield forums =( outstanding work.

Modifié par Echo Six Grimez, 01 mars 2012 - 01:31 .

[Eric Fagnan]

Well, I think it's pretty clear from the feedback on the forums and from our own internal playtests that Stasis is a little too powerful, so we're considering a slight nerf to it. It won't be a huge nerf because Stasis is not nearly as effective against the other factions.

[royard]

Eric ****nan wrote...

Well, I think it's pretty clear from the feedback on the forums and from our own internal playtests that Stasis is a little too powerful, so we're considering a slight nerf to it. It won't be a huge nerf because Stasis is not nearly as effective against the other factions.

Lemme guess--reducing the percentage of damage leaking through? 

[Shin0biwan]

Eric ****nan wrote...

Well, I think it's pretty clear from the feedback on the forums and from our own internal playtests that Stasis is a little too powerful, so we're considering a slight nerf to it. It won't be a huge nerf because Stasis is not nearly as effective against the other factions.

Thanks for the quick answer. I'm actually kinda worried about an Asari Adept's ability to crowd control against factions that have lots of armored enemies. Still, I'm not particularly adverse to a nerf - it's really good against Cerberus.

I'm very glad you guys didn't cave to the people complaining about Vanguards doing their job (racking up lots of kills against trash enemies) while completely ignoring that the presence of a Guardian, Atlas, or Turret in a mob badly diminishes their kill rate (and jeopardizes their safety) if they lack an ally who can deal with them quickly.

Just a quick note, and I'm sure Bioware knows this, but Charge-Nova Vanguards aren't completely invincible at all. Aside from the fact that auto-kill attacks override invincibility frames, Vanguards have some vulnerability frames at the end of a Charge (they can't immediately go into Nova - there are some frames where they can still be hit, and thus staggered), and if you roll-cancel a Nova, they're still vulnerable at the end of the roll.

I wouldn't mind if they took the invincibility frames away after you cancel a Nova, but honestly it's not needed. It doesn't save Vanguards against the enemies they have trouble with, and it doesn't help them against the enemies that they already wreck. Any other change would me, IMO, unwarranted.


Also, LOL at the forum censoring your name.

Modifié par Shin0biwan, 01 mars 2012 - 01:49 .

[shepskisaac]

Eric ****nan wrote...

Well, I think it's pretty clear from the feedback on the forums and from our own internal playtests that Stasis is a little too powerful, so we're considering a slight nerf to it. It won't be a huge nerf because Stasis is not nearly as effective against the other factions.

This is really good news. :happy: Because otherwise, the upcoming Asari Vanguard would make poor Drellguard look even more ridiculous in comparsion

[Butthead11]

Eric ****nan wrote...

Well, I think it's pretty clear from the feedback on the forums and from our own internal playtests that Stasis is a little too powerful, so we're considering a slight nerf to it. It won't be a huge nerf because Stasis is not nearly as effective against the other factions.

What about nova cancel? will you be getting rid of it?

Can you nerf human vanguards  to make an incentive for them to do something other than spam charge and play more of a team role. 

[Shin0biwan]

Butthead11 wrote...

Eric ****nan wrote...

Well, I think it's pretty clear from the feedback on the forums and from our own internal playtests that Stasis is a little too powerful, so we're considering a slight nerf to it. It won't be a huge nerf because Stasis is not nearly as effective against the other factions.

What about nova cancel? will you be getting rid of it?

Can you nerf human vanguards  to make an incentive for them to do something other than spam charge and play more of a team role. 

Both are unnecessary for reasons I stated above. Nova cancel doesn't actually let a Vanguard do something that he otherwise wouldn't be able to do. Not only is cancelling into a roll dangerous because rolls are vulnerable towards the end, but also if you're always cancelling your Novas into a roll, then your damage output decreases dramatically. That means your kill rate goes down, which means your allies get swarmed, which means you get swarmed by things you can't handle, which means you lose. Even if Nova did need a change, removing the ability to cancel is overkill - you only need to remove the lingering invincibility frames. Decent Vanguards won't miss those too much anyway.

Charging IS how a Vanguard plays as part of a team. With a Vanguard around, you shouldn't be worrying about taking out trash enemies. You should be worrying about taking out the targets that are going to slow the Vanguard down or kill him, such as Engineers, Turrets, Atlases, Guardians, to some extent Phantoms, and enemies that are outside of the Vanguard's kill zone that can threaten him with crossfire. If you're not willing to cover your allies' weaknesses and let them exploit their strengths (especially if the reason is due to meaningless points), then you're the one who isn't the team player, not the Vanguard.

Modifié par Shin0biwan, 01 mars 2012 - 04:20 .

[Esperys]

Everything Shinobi just said is true. +1

[Butthead11]

Shin0biwan wrote...

Butthead11 wrote...

Eric ****nan wrote...

Well, I think it's pretty clear from the feedback on the forums and from our own internal playtests that Stasis is a little too powerful, so we're considering a slight nerf to it. It won't be a huge nerf because Stasis is not nearly as effective against the other factions.

What about nova cancel? will you be getting rid of it?

Can you nerf human vanguards  to make an incentive for them to do something other than spam charge and play more of a team role. 

Both are unnecessary for reasons I stated above. Nova cancel doesn't actually let a Vanguard do something that he otherwise wouldn't be able to do. Not only is cancelling into a roll dangerous because rolls are vulnerable towards the end, but also if you're always cancelling your Novas into a roll, then your damage output decreases dramatically. That means your kill rate goes down, which means your allies get swarmed, which means you get swarmed ny things you can't handle, which means you lose. Even if Nova did need a change, removing the ability to cancel is overkill - you only need to remove the lingering invincibility frames.

Charging IS how a Vanguard plays as part of a team. With a Vanguard around, you shouldn't be worrying about taking out trash enemies. You should be worrying about taking out the targets that are going to slow the Vanguard down or kill him, such as Engineers, Turrets, Atlases, Guardians, to some extent Phantoms, and enemies that are outside of the Vanguard's kill zone that can threaten him with crossfire. If you're not willing to cover your allies' weaknesses and let them exploit their strengths (especially if the reason is due to meaningless points), then you're the one who isn't the team player, not the Vanguard.

Cancel rolls are only vunerable for the last half second compared to when you don't use canel your incredibly vunerable to fire after a nova. That's the way it's supposed to be. Your supposed to be a high risk high reward class. having a 3 second spamable invicincibility roll with a half a second window of vunerability is NOT ok.

And surviving longer will not decrease your damage output signifigantly. In gold i've seen atleast 3 different vanguards exploiting this bug. it's no doubt an unfair advantage for the already very powerful human vanguards. 


i also don't support the idea that with a vanguard in your group that your role becomes to support him killing useless enemies that would die faster if he just let snipers take care of them, a Vanguards role should be to handle speclisit behind  cover, protect others from phantoms since they are the most capable to do so, and flank enemies rather than just stay in the middle of them constantly charging. 

Modifié par Butthead11, 01 mars 2012 - 04:24 .

[Shin0biwan]

Butthead11 wrote...
Cancel rolls are only vunerable for the last half second compared to when you don't use canel your incredibly vunerable to fire after a nova.

Not at all true. On my 25% recharge speed after Nova Vanguard, my only point of vulnerability is directly after I charge (no way to avoid that), as well as certain attacks that either ignore or stagger through invincibility frames. The same goes for the Charge-Nova-Nova variant. And trust me, that period of vulnerability is more than enough to get you killed on gold. The primary reason is that if you get staggered during the bit of vulnerability, that split second window turns into 1-2 seconds, which leaves you very dead if you're taking gunfire from all angles.

Butthead11 wrote... 
That's the way it's supposed to be. Your supposed to be a high risk high reward class. having a 3 second spamable invicincibility roll with a half a second window of vunerability is NOT ok.

Not only is it perfectly OK, it's not even optimal.

Butthead11 wrote... 
And surviving longer will not decrease your damage output signifigantly.

Of course not. But surviving longer at the cost of never dealing damage with your most damaging attack bar none will most certainly decrease your damage output significantly.

If you're cancelling all of your Novas, then the only damage you're dealing is one charge every 3ish seconds. That causes your damage output to drop from great to pathetic.

Butthead11 wrote... 
In gold i've seen atleast 3 different vanguards exploiting this bug. it's no doubt an unfair advantage for the already very powerful human vanguards.

There's no indication it's a bug. If anything, it's a design oversight, but we don't have anything to indicate whether or not it's intended. Either way, it doesn't matter.

Butthead11 wrote... 
i also don't support the idea that with a vanguard in your group that your role becomes to support him killing useless enemies that would die faster if he just let snipers take care of them,

Arguendo, if the snipers take care of trash faster (they don't), then there isn't any issue. If anything, you should be attacking snipers.

Butthead11 wrote... 
a Vanguards role should be to handle speclisit behind  cover, protect others from phantoms since they are the most capable to do so, and flank enemies rather than just stay in the middle of them constantly charging. 

1) Drell Vanguards already do that - Pull to bring them out of cover, then charge + shotgun or melee. It's not very useful if you can't survive in your new position.

2) Asari are certainly better at handling Phantoms than Vanguards. Phantoms love to linger around enemies that Vanguards don't like to mess with.

3) Constantly charging has been the name of the game since ME2. People love it. It doesn't really matter if you don't - others do, it works, and it fits within the coop environment very well.

[frostycyke]

I wonder if the devs realize what a flood gate they just unleashed. Sure people like to know that a game is being cared for after release and that the dev's do pay attention. but now everyone and their mother will crawl out of the woodwork with crazy ideas and 9/10 those are the ones who get the most attention.

[Shin0biwan]

frostycyke wrote...

I wonder if the devs realize what a flood gate they just unleashed. Sure people like to know that a game is being cared for after release and that the dev's do pay attention. but now everyone and their mother will crawl out of the woodwork with crazy ideas and 9/10 those are the ones who get the most attention.

I'm worried about it too. That's why I'm so bent on setting the record straight on Human Vanguards. There's a lot of misinformation out there, especially regarding Nova cancelling.