85 réponses à ce sujet

[Herr Uhl]

Yes, but I wanted to bring him with me. I would start my own carta and take over the city...



Wanted to be able to at least talk him out of it.

[Count Viceroy]

Yeah, I tried that, you wouldn't really betray me would you leske? how wrong I was.

[Tumett]

From my perspective, Harrowmont is an old school Dwarf.  He upholds the standard Dwarven ideals.  Yes, he's racist, supports the castes and believes that his race should have little to do with outsiders.  He is also honorable and driven by duty, and not personal gain.  If you read up on the lore, that is by definition a Dwarf (IMHO).

Bhelen, on the other hand, is much more human in his ideals (and would probably slit my throat for saying such, if he could).  He is treacherous, conniving, self serving, and generally out for his own personal gain.  He supports the casteless, but only for selfish reasons (for the sake of his lover).  He really has no use for outsiders, except for when he has something to gain.  To quote Dick Solomon, "It's all about meeeeeeeeeeh!".

My first play through, I played a male Dwarven Noble.  For that character, the choice was easy.  Bhelen was the reason for his exile, and he would have picked a nug for King before picking Bhelen.  It wasn't so much choosing Harrowmont, as it was personal revenege against Bhelen.  In the end, when he got to kill Bhelen he was even more satisfied.

For my next play through, I'm really not sure what I'm going to do.  My Human Noble has no knowledge of Dwarves or of Dwarven politics, and honestly has little care for them either.  I'll probably pick the more expedient of the choices (Bhelen) as he seems to have more support.  (That and my Noble has similar aspirations of his own; to subvert Alister's bid for the thrown and have himself declared King.)

[FlintlockJazz]

Levowitz wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Also, Harrowmont coming across as good is just good PR, Bhelen is actually more honest in his activities. I actually wonder if it was Harrowmont who killed the old king and forged the letter saying he was to be king, he was the only person with him when he died after all...

I take it that you haven't played as a Dwarven Noble.

I have actually.  Yes, Bhelen is evil, conniving, backstabbing bastard but that does not mean that Harrowmont isn't more of one.  The fact that he comes across as the 'good guy' in a game of politics proves this, and at the point you arrive at Orzammer Bhelen is being more honest, he's taking the approach of "You're either with me or I'm gonna kill ya" style politics whereas Bhelen is trying to be silvered tongue 

I also noticed a look between Harrowmont and Bhelen that seemed to speak volumes during the Dwarf Noble Origin.  It was almost a "So you're up to stuff too" kind of look...

[Valmy]

Harrowmont was my choice but that was only because Bhelen's agent made the serious mistake of insulting my character. Man talk about arrogance. It was rewarding to wipe that smile off his smug face.



Insulting and demeaning the guy you want help from is just moronic.

[Dark83]

Tumett wrote...

From my perspective, Harrowmont is an old school Dwarf.  He upholds the standard Dwarven ideals.  Yes, he's racist, supports the castes and believes that his race should have little to do with outsiders.  He is also honorable and driven by duty, and not personal gain.  If you read up on the lore, that is by definition a Dwarf (IMHO).

I'm pretty sure that's the wrong lore, man. DA:O dwarves are all about the political infighting, from what I can see. (In the Dwarf Noble origin, that's very clear in your dealings with Dace.)

Count Viceroy wrote...

Meh he's a casteless crook, you have to do what you have to in order to survive down there. Makes sense.

Don't you mean who?

[Count Viceroy]

Haha touché. Although male noble hunters aren't exactly viable

[Valmy]

Count Viceroy wrote...

Haha touché. Although male noble hunters aren't exactly viable

Why not?  Of course it would be harder to prove the child was yours but the theory is the same...except you would need to have a daughter instead of a son.

[Count Viceroy]

I guess I just don't like the idea of a 50/50 chance of having a "worthless" child as it were. Also I saw no mentioning of male noble hunters being a common practise. There's no such option for the female noble for example.

[Herr Uhl]

That there are no male noble hunters is sad. But I still think that they exist.



As a response to that it would be harder proving that you are the dad, the reverse works for the noble if he denies being the father.

[EncasedMeats]

Couldar wrote...

why another thread on this? there are many many others. try using search....

It's almost as if these forums are the result of intentional design.

I mean, clearly they aren't but...almost.

[Valmy]

Count Viceroy wrote...

I guess I just don't like the idea of a 50/50 chance of having a "worthless" child as it were. Also I saw no mentioning of male noble hunters being a common practise. There's no such option for the female noble for example.

They exist but for obvious reasons it is alot less efficient than for female noble hunters.  Female nobles can only be pregnant once at a time while male nobles can have many buns in the oven at once.

[DarthKaldriss]

Count Viceroy wrote...

Haha, Yeah I remember my first time. I was an elf and I basically shrugged and picked one of them and went with it.

        Me too. 

[Valmy]

As a response to that it would be harder proving that you are the dad, the reverse works for the noble if he denies being the father.

Yes but the Noble WANTS a noble offspring so he would be very unlikely to do that.  That is whole point of sleeping with the commoner dwarf in the first place, so why would he do that?  Of course he will only acknowledge the child if it is a son anyway.

[GravityParade]

Ive done both outcomes and the summation of my feelings are this: "There's no Paragons here."


Edit:

Oh yea and killing Caladin kinda sucks. He was the only virtuous character that the dwarven race had left.

Modifié par GravityParade, 25 novembre 2009 - 06:23 .

[ValentineHeart82]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Also, Harrowmont coming across as good is just good PR

I got that too, and he seemed a bit self righteous to me when I talked to him, being a brand and all.

[SoylentTofu]

Is there an option to put Sandal on the throne? That would be my choice.

[Herr Uhl]

Bhelen is the archetype for magnificent bastard when playing the dwarf noble. A bastard, but he does it well.

[Malkut]

Count Viceroy wrote...

Haha, Yeah I remember my first time. I was an elf and I basically shrugged and picked one of them and went with it.

Seriously.  Who cares?  The stubby little cave apes deserve each other,with a few exceptions.

[ValentineHeart82]

LMAO Cave Apes! Kuddos for coming up with an actually offensive racist slur for a fictional race of people.

[Saurel]

well knowing how things end up..its obviously not black and white. It would have been nice if in the Dwarf Noble return, you could offer up a third choice. Since you know that world- it wouldn't be that much of a stretch.



For my Human who I did Orzammar with. I was prepared to go with Harrowmount due to the first incident. But soon upon hearing the Town Criers speak about Bhelen getting rid of the caste system and such, I ended up helping Bhelen.



It will be a hard choice for my Noble when he comes up, because he was a nice guy who definitely didn't look down on people given the chance. Which makes what Bhelen did to him that much worst. My guy also didn't kill Trian.

[Desertpunk23]

My 1st character was a Dwarf Noble and in my view rightful heir to the throne, I had no problem in killing Bhelen. Lil wretch wouldn't even acknowledge his brother had returned. Also if you win as a good guy Dwarf noble it's said your next in line for the throne, i can't confirm this but I doubt Bhelen would put you back in the position of heir.

[Recidiva]

I didn't care until I played a dwarven noble.



Then it was STRAIGHT back to Orzammar first thing and taking deep satisfaction in killing Bhelen myself.

[Ulrik the Slayer]

"Lord Harrowmont imprisoned! Awaiting execution! Epic fail!"



I don't see all the hostility against Bhelen if you're a Dwarven Noble. He bested you at the political game, and then some. My character gracefully acknowledged defeat and helped Bhelen to the throne because he wished for his family to stay on the throne.

[Desertpunk23]

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...

"Lord Harrowmont imprisoned! Awaiting execution! Epic fail!"

I don't see all the hostility against Bhelen if you're a Dwarven Noble. He bested you at the political game, and then some. My character gracefully acknowledged defeat and helped Bhelen to the throne because he wished for his family to stay on the throne.

well that would depend on your character, where you a overall good character who kept how foolish some of the politics where in mind while still playing them to your advantage. Or where you fully into it as your brothers not caring for your father, your people or personal honor, only caring for power.