337 réponses à ce sujet

[Senzen Sumnor]

Voiced protagonist is not a new trend or new technology improvement (their cinematic dialogue presentation that was implemented in ME is). I would say a more apt comparison of what you're talking about is when a few years (more like 10 years ago) there was a switch from 2d to 3d engines in WRPGs. I remember coming from the Infinity engine based games and playing NWN for the first time. I didn't like it at all, it took me months to get used to it. But when I did, I loved it and NWN is now one of my all time favorite games. Voice protagonist is design decision that Bioware has made based on the type of games they want to make, more cinematic, more epic tales, more appeal, bigger gamer base to pull from.

Modifié par Senzen Sumnor, 03 mars 2012 - 03:40 .

[Yrkoon]

YohkoOhno wrote...
I think as time passes on people will prefer voiced to silent, you're already seeing evidence of that. Just look at how gamers are quick trash developers for the "age of their engine" (more primitive graphics).

Not quite sure what you're basing this prediction on.   (and I certainly don't know what the hell  dated game engines have to do with anything).  Voiced protagonists in games have been around for years and years.

 Again, sales numbers in the gaming industry do not support the notion that Voiced protagonists will eventually gain  (or lose) preference among gamers at all.  And such speculation is pointless anyway.  The one Bioware dev who came to this thread to express his views has already pointed out  (numerous times) that the decision to make protagonists voiced in ME and DA is a purely stylistic one.  That  it fits with the type of cinematic/story based games that DA and ME happen to be.     It has nothing to do with  advancing technology, or trends, or gaming evolution, or whatever your argument is.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 03 mars 2012 - 03:53 .

[YohkoOhno]

It's a stylistic choice that is being embraced by more and more developers. Could you imagine Bioware removing voices from all the companions or NPCs now.

The point I made about game engines indicate that newer entries into gaming are getting more sensitive about graphic fidelity--a game that plays well gets a lot of flack if the engine feels dated.

Depending on how things go, I suspect the lack of voiced protagonists in AAA games will become as odd and jarring to the people who are used to it (the new generation of gamers), we're already seeing some evidence of that.

Modifié par YohkoOhno, 03 mars 2012 - 03:53 .

[Yrkoon]

YohkoOhno wrote...

It's a stylistic choice that is being embraced by more and more developers. .

Prove it.

YohkoOhno wrote...
The point I made about game engines indicate that newer entries into gaming are getting more sensitive about graphic fidelity--a game that plays well gets a lot of flack if the engine feels dated.

That's been the case for as long as game engines have existed.   You're arguing nothing relevant here.  You're just changing the subject.  Voiced Protagonists is not a technological advancement.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 03 mars 2012 - 03:57 .

[YohkoOhno]

When was the last time you saw a shooter game that didn't have voiced protagonists? The closest thing I can think of is Portal 2?

Outside of Skyrim and the original Dragon Age, what was the last big RPG didn't have voiced protagonists?  Only thing I can think of was the recent Kingdoms of Amalur.

And outside of all the 3D First or Third person games being developed today, how many have silent protagonists as opposed to voiced?  It appears that most games are embracing this development.

It's becoming a minority in development.

Modifié par YohkoOhno, 03 mars 2012 - 04:02 .

[Yrkoon]

YohkoOhno wrote...

When was the last time you saw a shooter game that didn't have voice protagonists?

Oh I don't know...  CALL OF DUTY?

Outside of Skyrim and the original Dragon Age, what was the last big RPG didn't have voiced protagonists?

Begging your pardon, but you claimed an INCREASE,  not a "maintenence of the status quo".    

Modifié par Yrkoon, 03 mars 2012 - 04:08 .

[YohkoOhno]

Now you are just arguing for the sake of it. I see an increase because it's rare to have a game that doesn't do this, and RPGs seem to be the last holdout.

The point is, it appears this is being done because game players expect this nowadays.  And as silent protagonists become rarer, it's also easy to surmise that the more people are exposed to it, the more it will seem at worst a jarring omision, or at best a novelty, which is why I mentioned the graphic improvements.

Modifié par YohkoOhno, 03 mars 2012 - 04:07 .

[Yrkoon]

YohkoOhno wrote...
The point is, it appears this is being done because game players expect this nowadays. 

Good point.  I mean, look at the biggest selling games of the last couple of years:  Pokemon, Call of Duty, Skyrim, Portal....  They've all got voiced protagonists.  Oh...  Wait... 

[YohkoOhno]

It's not universal, and I don't think it will be 100%, but more and more players are expecting voiced protagonists in their games. And there's also the delay in development times--some of these development times have taken 5 years. I'll be interested to see if the Skyrim sequel will have a voiced protagonist or not.

There will probably always be some games that are silent, but they appear to be in a growing minority.

But we'll have to continue this discussion 5 years from now and see what's out there.

(And to clarify, I meant 3D fully immersive games--Pokemon is not the type of game you play from a first person or "over the shoulder" perspective.  Those games I suspect will always be different).

Modifié par YohkoOhno, 03 mars 2012 - 04:18 .

[Yrkoon]

YohkoOhno wrote...

It's not universal

Indeed.  It's not even  a majority.

[YohkoOhno]

I'd say out of the category of games I mentioned, it's over 50%

[Yrkoon]

Because   that's how we measure gaming industry trends: By the cherry picked category of games YohkoOhno mentions. The other 99.9% of the industry can be ignored.  Right!

The fact remains. The top selling games of 2011 featured Silent protagonists. There is no other avaliable measurement.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 03 mars 2012 - 04:33 .

[YohkoOhno]

Well, if you look at VGChartz, and if you eliminate the dance games, sports games, and other casual games, and focus on the types of games people seem to care about most here, it's mixed.

http://www.vgchartz....early/2011/USA/

For every silent game (Rage, Skyrim), there are voiced games as well (Fable III, Uncharted 3, Assassins Creed). I still think more and more games are going to be voiced, though you'll probably argue the better sellings ones are silent.  (I'm too tired to count quantity wise).

Again, we'll see in a few years. Maybe you are right, maybe I am.  

But my gut tells me more vocalized protagonists in 1st and 3rd person 3D action/adventure/RPG games will be the norm, not the minority.

Modifié par YohkoOhno, 03 mars 2012 - 04:51 .

[Zanallen]

Yrkoon wrote...

Good point.  I mean, look at the biggest selling games of the last couple of years:  Pokemon, Call of Duty, Skyrim, Portal....  They've all got voiced protagonists.  Oh...  Wait... 

Yes, because the nature of the silent protagonist is the big draw for those games.. Oh...Oh wait, no.

Modifié par Zanallen, 03 mars 2012 - 04:53 .

[Yrkoon]

There's no way to know whether or not it is, since all of those games are their own series of titles that have never featured anything other than a Silent protagonist.

I can make a guess on one of those games, and confidently say that had  Bethesda voiced the Dovakiin, a total sh** storm would have ensued. Make no mistake about that.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 03 mars 2012 - 05:17 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

A silent protagonist in an RPG is COMPLETELY different to one in any other genre. They can't be compared.

[MerinTB]

Zanallen wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...
Good point.  I mean, look at the biggest selling games of the last couple of years:  Pokemon, Call of Duty, Skyrim, Portal....  They've all got voiced protagonists.  Oh...  Wait... 

Yes, because the nature of the silent protagonist is the big draw for those games.. Oh...Oh wait, no.

By and of itself, no.

But, clearly, silent protagonist is not a big enough turn-off to make voiced-protagonist games outsell silent protagonist ones, eh?

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Devoid of context, there is no objective advantage of having either a silent protagonist over a voiced one, or vice versa.

It depends on a multitude of elements and goals that surround each particular game (i.e. context). Some of these things include but are not limited to: method of character interaction, default perspective, player freedom in crafting the protagonist.

For example, a voiced protagonist would've added nothing of value to Baldur's Gate and could've even been detrimental to the experience, as if so often the case with bad voice acting, or voice acting that runs contrary to an intended response. Another example, Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines, would've been awful, just awful with a voiced protagonist. I can imagine that the much-beloved Malkavian dialogs would be an utter cringe fest with a voiced protagonist.

OTOH, a game like Mass Effect would not have worked at all if we simply muted Shepard.

Context, people. Stop trying to use sales or industry trends or other irrelevant arguments to prove something that cannot be objectively proven. What matters, is context.

[HiddenKING]

Silent Protagonist is 2 words.

[Zanallen]

MerinTB wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...
Good point.  I mean, look at the biggest selling games of the last couple of years:  Pokemon, Call of Duty, Skyrim, Portal....  They've all got voiced protagonists.  Oh...  Wait... 

Yes, because the nature of the silent protagonist is the big draw for those games.. Oh...Oh wait, no.

By and of itself, no.

But, clearly, silent protagonist is not a big enough turn-off to make voiced-protagonist games outsell silent protagonist ones, eh?

Contrariwise, you could argue that the gameplay in those games is strong enough that they have stellar sales in spite of having a silent protagonist. ((Though, to be honest, I can't really classify Pokemon, Call of Duty or Portal as having a silent protagonist. Pokemon has no voice at all, while none of them have any actual PC dialogue.))

[zyntifox]

Senzen Sumnor wrote...

I don't expect Bioware ever to release another game with a silent protagonist. Today's gamers just can't stomach that, they need that voice. I don't know what it is, they don't like to read, they lack an imagination? The problem of course with a voiced protagonist is that it hampers roleplay. My character doesn't sound like that? Why did he put emphasis on that particular word? Or you wind up just disliking the voice in general (e.g. I can't stand the voice actor for Commander Shepherd). The other pet peeve I have is the dialogue wheel. I hate it, almost 80% of the time the words that come out of PC's mouth is not what I expected them to say based on the one or two word description.

Origins and it's DLCs sales number disagrees. Now i can't say that BioWare will never release a silent protagonist game again but im fairly certain that we won't see it in another Dragon Age game though. But that's not because BioWare think that there is no demand for an game with a silent protagonist but rather that it fits the game they have envisioned. Now i don't think that the kind of game they have envisioned, the cinematic kind, is my kind of game; so i will probably not buy Dragon Age 3.

Modifié par Cstaf, 03 mars 2012 - 07:00 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

CrustyBot wrote...

Devoid of context, there is no objective advantage of having either a silent protagonist over a voiced one, or vice versa.

It depends on a multitude of elements and goals that surround each particular game (i.e. context). Some of these things include but are not limited to: method of character interaction, default perspective, player freedom in crafting the protagonist.

For example, a voiced protagonist would've added nothing of value to Baldur's Gate and could've even been detrimental to the experience, as if so often the case with bad voice acting, or voice acting that runs contrary to an intended response. Another example, Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines, would've been awful, just awful with a voiced protagonist. I can imagine that the much-beloved Malkavian dialogs would be an utter cringe fest with a voiced protagonist.

OTOH, a game like Mass Effect would not have worked at all if we simply muted Shepard.

Context, people. Stop trying to use sales or industry trends or other irrelevant arguments to prove something that cannot be objectively proven. What matters, is context.

I don't see how Mass Effect could have not worked with a silent PC. Sure some scenes would have to be reworked, but the game in itself would lend quite well to a silent PC. As would any other RPG that doesn't define a character for you.

I think you should be refering to The Witcher 2 for context with a voiced PC. He is a defined character. A voice suits that kind of character. But when everything can be customizable, like Mass Effect, there is no real reason why a silent PC couldn't work.

[Xewaka]

YohkoOhno wrote...
Outside of Skyrim and the original Dragon Age, what was the last big RPG didn't have voiced protagonists?  Only thing I can think of was the recent Kingdoms of Amalur.

Fallout New Vegas.

[Mr Fixit]

CrustyBot wrote...

Devoid of context, there is no objective advantage of having either a silent protagonist over a voiced one, or vice versa.

It depends on a multitude of elements and goals that surround each particular game (i.e. context). Some of these things include but are not limited to: method of character interaction, default perspective, player freedom in crafting the protagonist.

For example, a voiced protagonist would've added nothing of value to Baldur's Gate and could've even been detrimental to the experience, as if so often the case with bad voice acting, or voice acting that runs contrary to an intended response. Another example, Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines, would've been awful, just awful with a voiced protagonist. I can imagine that the much-beloved Malkavian dialogs would be an utter cringe fest with a voiced protagonist.

OTOH, a game like Mass Effect would not have worked at all if we simply muted Shepard.

Context, people. Stop trying to use sales or industry trends or other irrelevant arguments to prove something that cannot be objectively proven. What matters, is context.

Nicely said.

I love both when done well. Baldur's Gate and Fallout are some of the best games I've ever played, and I can't imagine them having a voice protagonist. On the other hand, I enjoyed Mass Effect's VA work immensely. Male Hawke was very nice as well.

Give me a well crafted game and I am a happy camper.

[Wulfram]

Zanallen wrote...

Contrariwise, you could argue that the gameplay in those games is strong enough that they have stellar sales in spite of having a silent protagonist. ((Though, to be honest, I can't really classify Pokemon, Call of Duty or Portal as having a silent protagonist. Pokemon has no voice at all, while none of them have any actual PC dialogue.))

Even Skyrim rarely has dialogue.  Mostly just NPC monologuing with the odd "yes" or "no" from the player.