337 réponses à ce sujet

[JeeWeeJ]

I believe there is a poll somewhere on these forums asking who prefers a silent or talking protagonist. Last time I checked it was like 48% for silent and 52% for talking. Sure, its quite a back and white choice, but still.. Just to say that there is no market for silent protagonist games is nonsense.

And it does quite show (to me atleast) how polarizing this game actually is...

[bEVEsthda]

JeeWeeJ wrote...

I believe there is a poll somewhere on these forums asking who prefers a silent or talking protagonist. Last time I checked it was like 48% for silent and 52% for talking. Sure, its quite a back and white choice, but still.. Just to say that there is no market for silent protagonist games is nonsense.

And it does quite show (to me atleast) how polarizing this game actually is...

Such polls are also misleading, I would say. First of all these forums are no longer representative. Most DA2-haters have either long since left, or been perma-banned some time ago. And many of those remaining, like me, don't bother to participate in these polls any longer, since we recognize that they are misleading anyway.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 03 mars 2012 - 12:58 .

[Plaintiff]

bEVEsthda wrote...

JeeWeeJ wrote...

I believe there is a poll somewhere on these forums asking who prefers a silent or talking protagonist. Last time I checked it was like 48% for silent and 52% for talking. Sure, its quite a back and white choice, but still.. Just to say that there is no market for silent protagonist games is nonsense.

And it does quite show (to me atleast) how polarizing this game actually is...

Such polls are also misleading, I would say. First of all these forums are no longer representative. Most DA2-haters have either long since left, or been perma-banned some time ago. And many of those remaining, like me, don't bother to participate in these polls any longer, since we recognize that they are misleading anyway.

The number of people who have even posted on these forums once is a small fraction of the total people who bought and played the games anyway. I doubt very much that Bioware intends to use such polls as the basis for their design decisions.

[bEVEsthda]

Plaintiff wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

JeeWeeJ wrote...

I believe there is a poll somewhere on these forums asking who prefers a silent or talking protagonist. Last time I checked it was like 48% for silent and 52% for talking. Sure, its quite a back and white choice, but still.. Just to say that there is no market for silent protagonist games is nonsense.

And it does quite show (to me atleast) how polarizing this game actually is...

Such polls are also misleading, I would say. First of all these forums are no longer representative. Most DA2-haters have either long since left, or been perma-banned some time ago. And many of those remaining, like me, don't bother to participate in these polls any longer, since we recognize that they are misleading anyway.

The number of people who have even posted on these forums once is a small fraction of the total people who bought and played the games anyway. I doubt very much that Bioware intends to use such polls as the basis for their design decisions.

Indeed!

But they could have, if there were reasons to believe the polls are representative.
Also, it doesn't mean one cannot still draw conclusions from such polls. I think the points JeeWeeJ make are still valid, for example. I just wanted to point out that the distribution doesn't reflect the market.

[JeeWeeJ]

Good point that the poll I was referring to probarbly should not be taken very seriously. However, if I see the results of that poll together with the initial reaction to this possible HD remake/iPad release/sequel to Baldur's Gate it's very tempting to say that 1+1 equals 2 and that RPG games with a silent protagonist shouldn't be written off so easily.

[Senzen Sumnor]

Cstaf wrote...

Senzen Sumnor wrote...

I don't expect Bioware ever to release another game with a silent protagonist. Today's gamers just can't stomach that, they need that voice. I don't know what it is, they don't like to read, they lack an imagination? The problem of course with a voiced protagonist is that it hampers roleplay. My character doesn't sound like that? Why did he put emphasis on that particular word? Or you wind up just disliking the voice in general (e.g. I can't stand the voice actor for Commander Shepherd). The other pet peeve I have is the dialogue wheel. I hate it, almost 80% of the time the words that come out of PC's mouth is not what I expected them to say based on the one or two word description.

Origins and it's DLCs sales number disagrees. Now i can't say that BioWare will never release a silent protagonist game again but im fairly certain that we won't see it in another Dragon Age game though. But that's not because BioWare think that there is no demand for an game with a silent protagonist but rather that it fits the game they have envisioned. Now i don't think that the kind of game they have envisioned, the cinematic kind, is my kind of game; so i will probably not buy Dragon Age 3.

That was an offhand remark and I already took it back, it wasn't really the point I was trying to make about how voiced protagonists can hinder roleplay, whereas a silent protagonist for me at least, this is never a problem.  I realize for some people, this really hinders their ability to be able roleplay, to not hear the voice of the PC.  I don't know why that is and was just guessing to the cause and apparently some people didn't appreciate that remark, so I withdraw it.

[Sylvius the Mad]

YohkoOhno wrote...

Outside of Skyrim and the original Dragon Age, what was the last big RPG didn't have voiced protagonists?  Only thing I can think of was the recent Kingdoms of Amalur.

But Kingdoms of Amalur is an excellent game.  And it's excellent largely because the protagonist is silent.

[Maria Caliban]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

YohkoOhno wrote...

Outside of Skyrim and the original Dragon Age, what was the last big RPG didn't have voiced protagonists?  Only thing I can think of was the recent Kingdoms of Amalur.

But Kingdoms of Amalur is an excellent game.  And it's excellent largely because the protagonist is silent.

The silent protagonist works in KoA, I agree, but even if the protagonist had a voice, I would still consider it a good game.

[addiction21]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

YohkoOhno wrote...

Outside of Skyrim and the original Dragon Age, what was the last big RPG didn't have voiced protagonists?  Only thing I can think of was the recent Kingdoms of Amalur.

But Kingdoms of Amalur is an excellent game.  And it's excellent largely because the protagonist is silent.

I did not like KoA
I did not like Skyrim

I did like Fallout 3 and New Vegas
I did like DA:O

The quality of a game does not center on any one aspect.

P.S.
I am also above my paygrade and will just bow out.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

YohkoOhno wrote...

Outside of Skyrim and the original Dragon Age, what was the last big RPG didn't have voiced protagonists?  Only thing I can think of was the recent Kingdoms of Amalur.

But Kingdoms of Amalur is an excellent game.  And it's excellent largely because the protagonist is silent.

The silent protagonist works in KoA, I agree, but even if the protagonist had a voice, I would still consider it a good game.

I would consider it unplayable with a voiced protagonist.  There's just not enough else to do in the game once you take away detailed personality design.

I think Skyrim would suffer less from adding a voice, and yet without voices I think Reckoning is better.

[fchopin]

Yes, KoA is a good game, cant stop playing the game and love the combat.
I love the running and swimming animations and have no problem with the no voice, as i said i play both kind of games without any problem.

[theauthority]

I've never been against voiced protagonists. I like Hawke enough to get through each walkthrough (can't stand the "good" tone but that's not the matter) and yes, sometimes it feels like a movie but aren't all media mixing together, now? Comics changed movies and viceversa; they both benefited from it and don't see why the same couldn't happen for games.
That said, I cringed a little when Dragon Age chose the "Mass Effect" route simply because a voiced protagonist would take away much of the freedom you were allowed in Origins. Mass Effect is ok 'cause you're Shepard since its beginning.
Dragon Age Origins promised you would impact the world and, well, you did to an extent. A silent protagonist can do basically everything, you just adapt your game and carry on.

A voiced protagonist cannot and that's my only gripe with the Dragon Age franchise: while Mass Effect was more of a movie (again) where I could choose subplots, DA was yours to partially build on a pre-made base - I hoped it would stay that way, personally, but I still enjoy my DA2 runs (although fewer in numbers when compared to DA:O).

I'm all in for voiced toons, as long as a Mass Effect-esque scenario is presented since its inception. Midway diversion are tougher to take in and people might not like it.

Modifié par theauthority, 04 mars 2012 - 07:05 .

[Maria Caliban]

JohnEpler wrote...

...there's a reason why films and television employ certain storytelling methods. There's a reason that Western cinema shows left to right as a forward progression and right to left as a setback, for example. Or why a low angle is used to convey power and grandeur, while a high angle is used to make a character seem diminuitive. They're based on a library of techniques and tactics that are shown to evoke a particular emotion or thought process in the consumer, and I fail to see why we shouldn't look to other mediums to inform us on the aspects of our games that most closely resemble them.

This isn't a disagreement per se, but the reason people interpret low angles as conveying power is because they've seen a host of low angles used to shoot powerful subjects. Humans are good at pattern recognition; any technique (musical, visual, literary) repeated to mean the same thing will eventually become part of an audiences' semiotic set.

An example from ME 2, which I just finished last night, if you speak to Thane, he of perfect memory, he'll sometimes go into flashback mode, which is a series of rapid cuts, odd angles, and a distinct swooshing noise. At the end, if you manage to save Kelly from the Collectors, you can have a conversation with her where she recounts her experience and they use the same technique. I immediately knew Kelly was having flashbacks to a traumatic experience, not just recounting it but reliving it.

Or a musical example, here's the trailer to Inception here's a cute Dora the Explorer Inception parody. One of the 'jokes' involves a simple, single musical cue that you've likely associated with Inception after a two and a half minute trailer.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 04 mars 2012 - 10:25 .