To those who say we don't matter, this becomes an issue of statistics. With almost 30k votes and over 90% negative votes for the ending, you generally encompassed the entire population with this sample. This is about as random a sample you can get and it's comin up snake eyes for bioware do they need a better response other than " y u no like maximum trolling? It's artistic!" because it risks alienating a very large chunk of guaranteed cash flows in the future.
So we can't get the ending we want after all?
Débuté par
Dunmer of Redoran
, févr. 28 2012 01:06
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#27602
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:00
ExileArin
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- Members
- 39 messages
Soundsystem wrote...
Nice to see Bioware and their employees being so rude to fans.
Reminds me not to buy another Bioware game. I will be voting with my wallet, and hope everyone else here will too.
Now.. what was that old saying about not biting the hand that feeds you..
This. To not only NOT issue a statement, but to consistently retweet things that basically refer to us as idiots. I understand your ending perfectly fine, Bioware. It simply makes no sense in this context and doesn't at all fit the theme/feel of the games. Belittling me has simply made me lose respect for them. They're going about this like a bully. Just issue the statement saying you're not going to change anything. They've already burnt their bridges with a lot of us.
#27603
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:00
soske aizen
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just got back from sleep any news on the frontlines?
#27604
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:00
Menthro
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- 188 messages
*sniped* I hate qoute towers
my apology then but guys like him are just pissing me of so much...i mean yeh some of us are doing the charity thingy which is good..but that...not very pleasant person, make us sound like ve are the biget douchebags this side of milkyway.
And that is his opinion, he is entitled to have it just as we are entiled to have ours saying the endings need changed. Throwing an insult makes you just like him. Yes it is pretty angering to see all of this hatred coming at us but please remember to be civil. Just a point as well, I'm singling you out because meh, its easy, but the message needs to get through to someothers as well.
Hold the Line.
#27605
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:00
Chronor
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- Members
- 137 messages
Just to add my support at the dissatisfaction of the ending. I apologize for the wall of text.
Hmmm. Where to begin?
I want to share some of the reasons why the fans, who are the source of your
income EA/BioWare, are outraged at the way the ending has been presented. I want
to touch on some points that may not have been emphasized.
Unlike many of the games in the market, the Mass Effect
games have something no other games (that I recall) has, it is a visceral
continuity. The way the games are
structured, your Shepard must run around the galaxy recruiting squad mates and
quell disputes of one sort or another.
These actions inevitably cause the player to become vested in the
politics and the relationships amongst the various alien races and crew. The choices one makes along the way effects
the ending in each game; thus, there are consequences to your character’s
actions. Most importantly, they carried
over to the next game in one degree or another.
Phenomenal gameplay and a very good way to keep your fan base involved
and ultimately to care what happens, especially the personal
relationships. In my playthrough, there
were several moments where I was teary eyed because of the deaths and
sacrifices of my crew and friends.
Unlike the choice between Ash and Kaiden from ME1, these tragic moments
had more impact because of the time invested in coming to love the characters
(insert Mordin as an example) and the impending doom of the galaxy.
Now we come to the ending of ME3. I don’t know if there were some other
pressures at work here, but this is not what I expected out of BioWare. Up to now, I’ve always viewed BioWare games,
especially RPG types, as being a very personal and rewarding experience. The writing had always been top notch, and if
the dialogue or actions can pull some emotion out of the player, you know you
have some talent.
I remember the early development days when BioWare spoke of
Mass Effect being a trilogy. It was
going to be this monumental space opera full of intrigue, action and
romance. Great! You delivered in ME1 and ME2 in the vein of
my beloved Dune books.
However, after all the difficult decisions and weighing the
consequences throughout ME1 and ME2, ME3’s ending was lackluster at best. I played the ending knowing, even without
spoilers from the internet, that my Shepard would probably die in the end. So emotionally, I was hardening myself for
the outcome. What I received instead
seemed to be an ignoble and dare I say unfair end to my beloved Shepard.
Aside from the glaring plot holes, BioWare through their
rushed ending in ME3 failed to give due consideration to all the effort that
Shepard put forth up to this point.
Playing Paragon, I have the mindset that the Rachni deserved another
chance, the Krogan deserved a resurgence, and the Geth deserved their version
of life. Throughout the gameplay of ME3,
Shepard is brokering peace and gathering resources and military might for the
ultimate battle. What was it all
for? Where is the reward for all this
effort and the previous events from ME1 and ME2? Why did the limited end choices even have the
caveat that the Geth would be destroyed, especially when Legion’s actions
demonstrated that the Geth had a soul?
To me, no matter what explanation is given for the Reapers, the Reapers
did not have a soul. They were just a
force of destruction and deserved to be annihilated.
The current ending only gave a token nod to what the players
had vested. There were no explanations
given as to the outcome of Shepard’s crew.
Let’s face it, how the galaxy survives in the aftermath can be provided
in brief cutscenes. What the players
(and the developers in my view) care about is what happens to your crew. I want to know that my sacrifice had
meaning. It’s only human, and after all,
isn’t that what we are playing?
Show the fans that all that resource and military gathering
had some tangible effect, e.g., a certain percentage of your crew/galaxy
survives. Show me that Jacob is alive
with his new baby or that his wife is mourning his death. Show me Jack kicking ass with her kids only
to have her shot down by concentrated Reaper fire. Show me Tali and Garrus back to back in a
desperate last stand but hugging when they realize the Reaper threat is
gone. Anything along these lines would
be good, because like I said in the beginning, the players have grown to love
all these characters. It’s a disservice
to everyone when we feel like Shepard’s ultimate sacrifice had no immediate
bearing on the fate of the friends and loved ones he/she was fighting for. All of Shepard’s actions have been about
desperate hope. Let there be a payoff
for that hope.
Hmmm. Where to begin?
I want to share some of the reasons why the fans, who are the source of your
income EA/BioWare, are outraged at the way the ending has been presented. I want
to touch on some points that may not have been emphasized.
Unlike many of the games in the market, the Mass Effect
games have something no other games (that I recall) has, it is a visceral
continuity. The way the games are
structured, your Shepard must run around the galaxy recruiting squad mates and
quell disputes of one sort or another.
These actions inevitably cause the player to become vested in the
politics and the relationships amongst the various alien races and crew. The choices one makes along the way effects
the ending in each game; thus, there are consequences to your character’s
actions. Most importantly, they carried
over to the next game in one degree or another.
Phenomenal gameplay and a very good way to keep your fan base involved
and ultimately to care what happens, especially the personal
relationships. In my playthrough, there
were several moments where I was teary eyed because of the deaths and
sacrifices of my crew and friends.
Unlike the choice between Ash and Kaiden from ME1, these tragic moments
had more impact because of the time invested in coming to love the characters
(insert Mordin as an example) and the impending doom of the galaxy.
Now we come to the ending of ME3. I don’t know if there were some other
pressures at work here, but this is not what I expected out of BioWare. Up to now, I’ve always viewed BioWare games,
especially RPG types, as being a very personal and rewarding experience. The writing had always been top notch, and if
the dialogue or actions can pull some emotion out of the player, you know you
have some talent.
I remember the early development days when BioWare spoke of
Mass Effect being a trilogy. It was
going to be this monumental space opera full of intrigue, action and
romance. Great! You delivered in ME1 and ME2 in the vein of
my beloved Dune books.
However, after all the difficult decisions and weighing the
consequences throughout ME1 and ME2, ME3’s ending was lackluster at best. I played the ending knowing, even without
spoilers from the internet, that my Shepard would probably die in the end. So emotionally, I was hardening myself for
the outcome. What I received instead
seemed to be an ignoble and dare I say unfair end to my beloved Shepard.
Aside from the glaring plot holes, BioWare through their
rushed ending in ME3 failed to give due consideration to all the effort that
Shepard put forth up to this point.
Playing Paragon, I have the mindset that the Rachni deserved another
chance, the Krogan deserved a resurgence, and the Geth deserved their version
of life. Throughout the gameplay of ME3,
Shepard is brokering peace and gathering resources and military might for the
ultimate battle. What was it all
for? Where is the reward for all this
effort and the previous events from ME1 and ME2? Why did the limited end choices even have the
caveat that the Geth would be destroyed, especially when Legion’s actions
demonstrated that the Geth had a soul?
To me, no matter what explanation is given for the Reapers, the Reapers
did not have a soul. They were just a
force of destruction and deserved to be annihilated.
The current ending only gave a token nod to what the players
had vested. There were no explanations
given as to the outcome of Shepard’s crew.
Let’s face it, how the galaxy survives in the aftermath can be provided
in brief cutscenes. What the players
(and the developers in my view) care about is what happens to your crew. I want to know that my sacrifice had
meaning. It’s only human, and after all,
isn’t that what we are playing?
Show the fans that all that resource and military gathering
had some tangible effect, e.g., a certain percentage of your crew/galaxy
survives. Show me that Jacob is alive
with his new baby or that his wife is mourning his death. Show me Jack kicking ass with her kids only
to have her shot down by concentrated Reaper fire. Show me Tali and Garrus back to back in a
desperate last stand but hugging when they realize the Reaper threat is
gone. Anything along these lines would
be good, because like I said in the beginning, the players have grown to love
all these characters. It’s a disservice
to everyone when we feel like Shepard’s ultimate sacrifice had no immediate
bearing on the fate of the friends and loved ones he/she was fighting for. All of Shepard’s actions have been about
desperate hope. Let there be a payoff
for that hope.
#27606
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:00
karambiatos
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- Members
- 104 messages
mulder1199 wrote...
you may want to talk to a different crowd...most of the folks that comment in here aren't buying anymore bioware product....
im buying it, when someone pays me to get it
#27607
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:00
s8383783
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- Members
- 37 messages
I really don't see them changing a thing....At the end of the day Mass effect is theirs. If they deem their ending acceptable then it will stay, we can't force them to change anything if they are unwilling. If they are so adamant on keeping this ending let them..they're just digging their own graves by alienating fans, and being dismissive jerks. I'm going to be honest and say I never once thought what we were doing here was going to change the ending, but it felt good. (the charity)
#27608
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:02
Menthro
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- Members
- 188 messages
ExileArin wrote...
Soundsystem wrote...
Nice to see Bioware and their employees being so rude to fans.
Reminds me not to buy another Bioware game. I will be voting with my wallet, and hope everyone else here will too.
Now.. what was that old saying about not biting the hand that feeds you..
This. To not only NOT issue a statement, but to consistently retweet things that basically refer to us as idiots. I understand your ending perfectly fine, Bioware. It simply makes no sense in this context and doesn't at all fit the theme/feel of the games. Belittling me has simply made me lose respect for them. They're going about this like a bully. Just issue the statement saying you're not going to change anything. They've already burnt their bridges with a lot of us.
Im sorry but I have been monitering several twitter feeds at one time, and I may have missed the tweets, please link me to where they have insulted us or retweeted something insulting about us, please make sure it is from a bioware emplyee not from a moderator or someone else who chooses to donate their time to Bioware.
Modifié par Menthro, 14 mars 2012 - 04:02 .
#27609
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:02
GreenSoda
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- Members
- 1 214 messages
A lot of articles in the media, but still more or less silence from BW.Elanor1 wrote...
Is there any news? I haven't been here since yesterday...
#27610
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:02
RatedRRachel
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- Members
- 194 messages
Even if they don't change the ending, I just want an explanation as to what really happened? Maybe I would respect their artistic integrity for the story if I knew why the hell Joker was flying away with the crew etc...? I do slightly buy into the indoctrination theory, but if it was the ending, I wish there was a little more to confirm it. That - at the moment - is really what I want from Bioware: an explanation of what my 120+ hours per Shepard meant. Personal interpretation is all well and good, but I didn't play these games for five years to make up my own ending.
#27611
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:02
Daishar Vneef
-
- Members
- 113 messages
They should give us a happy ending DLC for free. I've paid enough for this game plus ME1, ME2 and all the DLCs that went with those.
Oh and I should mention something that has apparently been over looked. It has in fact happened that some movies have had their endings changed before release to the public because it did not go over well with the test group. This is a documented fact and there are television series that have gone through serious rewrites because of test groups. Maybe we are the test group. In which case we really should get our happy ending DLC for free!
Oh and I should mention something that has apparently been over looked. It has in fact happened that some movies have had their endings changed before release to the public because it did not go over well with the test group. This is a documented fact and there are television series that have gone through serious rewrites because of test groups. Maybe we are the test group. In which case we really should get our happy ending DLC for free!
#27612
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:03
Elanor
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- Members
- 1 029 messages
karambiatos wrote...
mulder1199 wrote...
you may want to talk to a different crowd...most of the folks that comment in here aren't buying anymore bioware product....
im buying it, when someone pays me to get it
If they won't fix that they won't see my money ever again.
#27613
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:03
Dan Willis
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- Members
- 16 messages
On Art and Artists:
Okay, I'm sick of listening to meweling defenders talk about how this is art and I should just shut up because I clearly don't understand art. While lots of long-haired, round-glasses, pseudo-intellectual types love to say that only an artist can trulely appreciate art, it is exactly the other way around.
Patrons (people who buy art) define what is and is not art by what they will pay for.
I happen to be an artist, I write novels that people pay me for. Just because I write something, however, doesn't make it art. Art is what people will buy. That said, I bought ME3, like most of you, based on Bioware's track record. By doing so, I became a parton (consumer) and like any consumer of a good or service, I absolutely have the right to complain. In fact, the argument could be made that those of us who pre-bought ME3 were promised certain things (explicitly by Bioware in some cases) and what we got was demonstrobly not what was promised. In most other real world cases, that's called fraud and it's a criminal offense.
Now I'm NOT suggesting that anyone run off an sue Bioware. That's not going to accomplish anything. I just want to point out that the "whining and crying" from the patrons of this art are not only legitimate, but well grounded. If you bought a vacuume based on the manufactuere's claims about it and it didn't perform to those clames by any objective measure, you'd take it back and demand your money. We can't do that with video game (because they're an IP product) but we can, and should, demand that Bioward fulfil the promises they made. We should also let them know, in no uncertain terms, that we won't be pre-buying any Bioware games again. Not until they are released and fully reviewed by the fans.
Here's how Mass Effect 3 should have ended: tinyurl.com/7y323p9
Okay, I'm sick of listening to meweling defenders talk about how this is art and I should just shut up because I clearly don't understand art. While lots of long-haired, round-glasses, pseudo-intellectual types love to say that only an artist can trulely appreciate art, it is exactly the other way around.
Patrons (people who buy art) define what is and is not art by what they will pay for.
I happen to be an artist, I write novels that people pay me for. Just because I write something, however, doesn't make it art. Art is what people will buy. That said, I bought ME3, like most of you, based on Bioware's track record. By doing so, I became a parton (consumer) and like any consumer of a good or service, I absolutely have the right to complain. In fact, the argument could be made that those of us who pre-bought ME3 were promised certain things (explicitly by Bioware in some cases) and what we got was demonstrobly not what was promised. In most other real world cases, that's called fraud and it's a criminal offense.
Now I'm NOT suggesting that anyone run off an sue Bioware. That's not going to accomplish anything. I just want to point out that the "whining and crying" from the patrons of this art are not only legitimate, but well grounded. If you bought a vacuume based on the manufactuere's claims about it and it didn't perform to those clames by any objective measure, you'd take it back and demand your money. We can't do that with video game (because they're an IP product) but we can, and should, demand that Bioward fulfil the promises they made. We should also let them know, in no uncertain terms, that we won't be pre-buying any Bioware games again. Not until they are released and fully reviewed by the fans.
Here's how Mass Effect 3 should have ended: tinyurl.com/7y323p9
Modifié par Dan Willis, 14 mars 2012 - 04:06 .
#27614
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:03
Cybermortis
-
- Members
- 1 083 messages
DazenCobalt17 wrote...
thedistortedchild wrote...
Preistly and I are having a convo:
@manveerheir I concur the charitable donation is a good thing but I think attaching an unrelated agenda to a charity drive is reprehensible.
@Thessair @manveerheir Its a result of the agenda, used as a way to have something good come from the ending. No agenda = no charity drive
@dragonsamantha @manveerheir The charity drive should be the agenda. Otherwise the charity is being exploited to make a point.
@Thessair @manveerheir The charity drive = result of fan's sadness & made < 30k for sick kids I don't think they care why it was donated.
Exploited!? I see nothing but gain for this charity. The people who started this charity knew there was a chance that we would fail in our quest for a better ending but they did it anyway. How can this be seen as expoiting a charity.
We're focusing/aimming our rage into something positive. Whether we get our endings or not we've helped kids. *shakes head* gah
A sign that they are worried maybe?
A 'vocal minority' of 'self-entitled' players has started an unorginized and unfunded campaign that has caused their share-price to fall, along with sales of their newest game AND forced a worldwide drop in the price of that game. They (meaning we) have even managed to gain growing support from the very same press that not that long ago were raging against us.
Just as importantly our complaints/points are consistent, politely worded and reasonable.
Bioware/EA is suddenly running around, forced onto the defensive by a force that they can't control, isn't letting up and is only getting stronger by the hour....And ME3 STILL hasn't been released everywhere yet!
Be proud, keep up the fight and hold that blessed line!
#27615
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:04
Aeyl
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- Members
- 320 messages
Menthro wrote...
ExileArin wrote...
Soundsystem wrote...
Nice to see Bioware and their employees being so rude to fans.
Reminds me not to buy another Bioware game. I will be voting with my wallet, and hope everyone else here will too.
Now.. what was that old saying about not biting the hand that feeds you..
This. To not only NOT issue a statement, but to consistently retweet things that basically refer to us as idiots. I understand your ending perfectly fine, Bioware. It simply makes no sense in this context and doesn't at all fit the theme/feel of the games. Belittling me has simply made me lose respect for them. They're going about this like a bully. Just issue the statement saying you're not going to change anything. They've already burnt their bridges with a lot of us.
Im sorry but I have been monitering several twitter feeds at one time, and I may have missed the tweets, please link me to where they have insulted us or retweeted something insulting about us, please make sure it is from a bioware emplyee not from a moderator or someone else who chooses to donate their time to Bioware.
So far, all I've seen from Bioware itself has been vague, but not insulting. The insulting is coming from external reviewers.
I'm disappointed about the silence, but oh well.
#27616
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:04
Matt_gekko88
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- Members
- 617 messages
s8383783 wrote...
I really don't see them changing a thing....At the end of the day Mass effect is theirs. If they deem their ending acceptable then it will stay, we can't force them to change anything if they are unwilling
Off course it's theirs. But then they should never call themselves "community- and fan-oriented" again. Since they are a profit-oriented-company, they should show some interests into the opinions of their customers.
Modifié par Matt_gekko88, 14 mars 2012 - 04:05 .
#27617
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:04
Katsumi Liqueur
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- Members
- 159 messages
We need the 9gag army. 
I already see what they (us) can do, it would be cool to go there and post something asking for help.
I already see what they (us) can do, it would be cool to go there and post something asking for help.
#27618
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:05
Benirus
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- Members
- 419 messages
Man, that even PCgamer turned out to stapple us as entitled ragers... sigh
Bummed me out a bit, brb smoke and shower
Bummed me out a bit, brb smoke and shower
#27619
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:05
tompuddefoot
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- Members
- 69 messages
Is it me, or did the god/reaper/child thing at the end explain everything by saying: -
All organic life was going to be eradicated by robots, so I made a load of huge powerful robots to wipeout anything that can use the mass effect relays so that other organics can evolve and grow to understand and use the relays so my army of robots can wipe them out....
I think what he is trying to say is: -
I made reapers to prevent organics from building AI's who will wipe out ALL the organic life in the galaxy, because orcanics and synthetics will never get on and will always fight. By programing, all synths will calculate that because of its unpredictable nature anything made of flesh and brain and bones will sooner or later want to control everything......
So what did I just do with the Geth?
Bioware, just write in a happy ending where you can convince the reaper child that we can all get on and he/it see's the error of its ways and shuts off the reapers.
Would that do it do you think?
All organic life was going to be eradicated by robots, so I made a load of huge powerful robots to wipeout anything that can use the mass effect relays so that other organics can evolve and grow to understand and use the relays so my army of robots can wipe them out....
I think what he is trying to say is: -
I made reapers to prevent organics from building AI's who will wipe out ALL the organic life in the galaxy, because orcanics and synthetics will never get on and will always fight. By programing, all synths will calculate that because of its unpredictable nature anything made of flesh and brain and bones will sooner or later want to control everything......
So what did I just do with the Geth?
Bioware, just write in a happy ending where you can convince the reaper child that we can all get on and he/it see's the error of its ways and shuts off the reapers.
Would that do it do you think?
#27620
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:05
dfstone
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- Members
- 602 messages
RatedRRachel wrote...
Even if they don't change the ending, I just want an explanation as to what really happened? Maybe I would respect their artistic integrity for the story if I knew why the hell Joker was flying away with the crew etc...? I do slightly buy into the indoctrination theory, but if it was the ending, I wish there was a little more to confirm it. That - at the moment - is really what I want from Bioware: an explanation of what my 120+ hours per Shepard meant. Personal interpretation is all well and good, but I didn't play these games for five years to make up my own ending.
I guarantee that they are going to release DLC that fills in the holes. They left the ambiguity in the ending to sell DLC. If they finalized everything there would be no reason to buy extra content. The fact that they left so many unaswered questions gives them a reason to release DLC packs.
Since Bioware said that this is the end of Shepherd's storyline, that is the only way the story's holes will be closed...thru DLC. The next major franchise release is going to have a different protagonist.
#27621
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:05
Tychondrus5
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- Members
- 47 messages
I've been following this topic for a few days now, and all I want to say is;
Keep holding the line people! You guys are all doing an amazing job. I will do my best as well.
Keep holding the line people! You guys are all doing an amazing job. I will do my best as well.
#27622
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:06
RampantGnome
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- Members
- 7 messages
Denethar wrote...
dfstone wrote...
PresidentCowboy wrote...
dfstone wrote...
Its because they are right. The idea of trying to force them to change their game because you don't like the ending is ridiculous. The best thing to do is give them feedback on why you didn't like it so hopefully when they launch the next storyline for the Mass Effect universe, they make some improvements.
Again, there is no Mass Effect universe for a new storyline to be in, cause they destroyed the mass relays...
Sure there is. Who's to say when the next storyline will be? It could be in the distant future after the ME3 when a new kind of interstellar travel is developed. It could be *gulps* pre-quel to ME1. They could forget mass relays at all and just use FTL drives like they do in the game now. Remember you can still travel to different stars without using a relay in the game right now.
They have lots of options to continue the story.
A Mass Effect universe with the Mass Effect part....sounds useless.
You're confusing the fact that element zero can control mass (the "mass effect") and the mass relays which use mass effect fields to allow ships to travel quickly around the galaxy.
If the starchild had said all toasters would be destroyed it doesn't mean that electricty suddenly doesn't work.
#27623
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:06
Ramshakkle
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- Members
- 95 messages
RatedRRachel wrote...
Even if they don't change the ending, I just want an explanation as to what really happened? Maybe I would respect their artistic integrity for the story if I knew why the hell Joker was flying away with the crew etc...? I do slightly buy into the indoctrination theory, but if it was the ending, I wish there was a little more to confirm it. That - at the moment - is really what I want from Bioware: an explanation of what my 120+ hours per Shepard meant. Personal interpretation is all well and good, but I didn't play these games for five years to make up my own ending.
Pretty much this. Leaving things up to interpretation is one thing. Leaving fans to try and build their entire desired ending off of a theory created more or less out of desperation for a logical reasoning of what bloody happened is far past the interpretation stage. We want some concrete details on what happened after the fact, and why things that don't make sense (ie: Joker) are there.
#27624
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:07
kongenial
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- Members
- 309 messages
Aeyl wrote...
So far, all I've seen from Bioware itself has been vague, but not insulting. The insulting is coming from external reviewers.
I'm disappointed about the silence, but oh well.
To me this is insulting as well. They seem actually not to care. They jsut twitter "Oh looky here we got some DLC coming your way". This is what was to expect from the beginning but it answers not the pleas for an actual explanation.
#27625
Posté 14 mars 2012 - 04:07
P_sutherland
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- Members
- 519 messages
Holding the line and just donated 
