101103 réponses à ce sujet

[ashley_actually]

Stygian1 wrote...

WvStolzing wrote...

jedsithor wrote...

Does anyone remember KOTOR?

At a certain point in the game you made a choice. Continue along the Jedi path and save the Republic or give yourself fully to the Dark Side with the intention of overthrowing Malak and becoming the new Dark Lord of the Sith.

Aside from a couple of cutscenes and different sub-bosses (Bastila or three Sith), the endgame played out pretty much the same way. You still had to fight your way through the Star Forge, you still had to defeat Darth Malak. But depending on your choice, you got two drastically different endings. You either destroyed the Star Forge, saved the Republic and got a medal or you became the new Sith Master with your followers proclaiming "All Hail Lord Revan" as a fleet of ships left the Star Forge to conquer the galaxy. Heck, there was even a third ending where, if you fell to the Dark Side, you had a final shot of redemption.

Whatever happened to that Bioware? KOTOR was relatively simplistic in terms of choice and consequence compared to the Mass Effect series or the Witcher series. But when it came to the ultimate choice, it mattered. The ending you got wasn't just a palette shift, it was drastically different. The cgi-sequences reflected that. The Republic fleet either went for victory or the Sith fleet destroyed them. You either got a medal at the temple from Vandar or stood tall as the Dark Lord of the Sith. The one truly meaningful choice in that game had real consequences.

Mass Effect was supposed to be the next step. Instead of one choice affecting your outcome, you had hundreds of choices that affected not just one game, but three. Alliances were made, enemies swore vengeance, people lived or died depending on your decisions. These were games built on choice. Your choices not only reflected the universe around your character, if reflected Shepard. Was he a boyscout or a no nonsense badass? Was she a one-man woman or did she play the field? Was he or she straight or gay or bi? Was Shepard xenophobic? Did he or she have a thing for Asari? What did Shep think of the genophage?

It wasn't just paragon or renegade. Players had the ability to build a unique Shepard and the games were meant to reflect that. Maybe squadmates were expendable in Shep's eyes. Maybe Jack was only worth a one night stand. It all depended on what the player wanted their Shep to be. Choice and consequence.

But there was one thing all Shep's had in common. Saving the galaxy from the Reapers. Shep wasn't always a boyscout...but he was always a badass. Shep had no problem voicing his or her opinion and would always call out BS where ever he or she saw it. This was true right up until the end. The player could have Shep call out the Illusive Man on his BS. It may have been a rehash of Saren's end but it just shows that Shep has been through it all. The Shep I played ME3 with had talked Saren down and pointed out the stupidity of the Illusive Man's scheme.

Then...suddenly....Starchild. Suddenly Shep couldn't form a coherent thought. Suddenly he was incapable of asking basic questions, of pointing out the apparent lunacy of Starchild's solution. Let's put aside what the ending actually looked like. Let's forget the Normandy and the palette change and focus on the conversation with Starchild. Where was the Shepard who didn't take any crap? Where was the Shepard who had proven that Starchild was wrong, that organics and synthetics could co-exist? The Shepard who convinced the most dangerous men in the galaxy, men indoctrinated no less, that they were wrong?

He's presented with three choices. Why those three? Why did the relays have to be destroyed? Where was the Shepard who would ask those questions? Why couldn't Shepard convince Starchild to give this cycle a chance? Why couldn't he even try? Where did my Shepard go?

And that right there is the problem. In those final moments, Shepard stopped being Shepard. I want a happy ending. I want a sad ending. I want a bittersweet ending. I want a good ending. I want a bad ending. Above all, I want an ending that occurs on Shepard's terms. However it turns out, I want it to be Shepard's choice. I want him or her to act like my Shepard has always done. To say what my Shepard has always said. Even if it's pointless. Even if there is no hope for the galaxy. Let Shepard be Shepard. He/She's earned it.

This shouldn't get lost. Is it possible to get a permanent link for it? Perhaps one we could 'tweet'?

Yeah this is great

Hey sleep calls, a Wisconsinite is signing off.

Hold the line everyone 

This is what it felt like. My Shepard disappeared in the last 10 minutes of the game. Space magic taste the rainbow. 

[Nathos]

wicked_being wrote...

TamiBx wrote...

wicked_being wrote...

Nathos wrote...

wicked_being wrote...

Can anyone here translate Japanese to English? There's a very active discussion in 2ch (Japan's largest forum) about ME3.

Have you tried google translator?

Yep trying it now but it's still so hard to understand >.< Context is lost in translation.

No, seriously, what's the link? I can help you (and everyone else here, who wants to know what's going on)

http://find.2ch.net/?STR=mass+effect&TYPE=TITLE&x=0&y=0&BBS=ALL&ENCODING=SJIS&COUNT=50

I just typed "Mass Effect" in the search bar there and that's what I got.

You see, is really easy.

That one looks like a guy with his arms pointing to the sky, so it must mean "Jump". That other one... well... i'm sure i can't say here.

[parerune]

i just finished the game.........this blows sheperd is not supposed to die he must live!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ThatGuy777]

With so many journalists talking about "entitlement" and spreading their ideas with the wider community, I just can't see how we can successfully retake mass effect. Bioware is a big old scary company, they can just ignore us if they want. They'll find new target markets for their games if they have to...

:'(

[Shiyamirai]

jedsithor wrote...

....
He's presented with three choices. Why those three? Why did the relays have to be destroyed? Where was the Shepard who would ask those questions? Why couldn't Shepard convince Starchild to give this cycle a chance? Why couldn't he even try? Where did my Shepard go?

And that right there is the problem. In those final moments, Shepard stopped being Shepard. I want a happy ending. I want a sad ending. I want a bittersweet ending. I want a good ending. I want a bad ending. Above all, I want an ending that occurs on Shepard's terms. However it turns out, I want it to be Shepard's choice. I want him or her to act like my Shepard has always done. To say what my Shepard has always said. Even if it's pointless. Even if there is no hope for the galaxy. Let Shepard be Shepard. He/She's earned it.

Every eloqent in how you put it and it is true.
that final piece was what throws me for a loop.
Shepard should be the one we have created.
Lets hold the line!
ps- sorry I'm cutting whole statements out folks, I'm just point out what connects with me.

[electrosphere11]

@ ashley_actually
Agreed. He might as well have been indoctrinated because I was certainly looking for more answers.

Modifié par electrosphere11, 15 mars 2012 - 04:49 .

[Chatboy 91]

$43 000 in donations guys! Keep holding the line!

[Jackal7713]

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

xAmilli0n wrote...

Just thought I'd contribute one more bit from twitter.

twitter.com/#!/JessicaMerizan/status/180148094875348993

"It indicates that I enjoy theorizing--I understand some just want a
"canon" answer. I don't. My interp. IS the only answer I need."

I realize she isn't a dev, and doesn't know anything official.  Just not a fan of the whole, your interpretation is your answer, idea.

My interpretation is that this was a lazy, nonsensical ending. By her logic, that's a valid viewpoint!

So the ending to mass effect 3 is nonrepresentational art?  Oh I really get the feeling of closure now <_<

[revaew]

I;m interested in what the Japanese are saying...

[infinitekilan]

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

xAmilli0n wrote...

Just thought I'd contribute one more bit from twitter.

twitter.com/#!/JessicaMerizan/status/180148094875348993

"It indicates that I enjoy theorizing--I understand some just want a
"canon" answer. I don't. My interp. IS the only answer I need."

I realize she isn't a dev, and doesn't know anything official.  Just not a fan of the whole, your interpretation is your answer, idea.

My interpretation is that this was a lazy, nonsensical ending. By her logic, that's a valid viewpoint!

I could understand the ending being left to interpretation, if the entire rest of the trilogy had been fashioned in the same way. But as it stands, this ending is the equivalent of Return of the Jedi ending with Luke Skywalker vanishing into the Force along with Darth Vader and the Emperor, all other Jedi being unable to connect with the Force, and lightspeed travel no longer working.

Can you imagine the outrage THAT would cause?

Not to mention, in a universe based solely on scientific advancement, technology, and research, mysticism really has no place in affecting the fate of the entire galaxy.

Modifié par infinitekilan, 15 mars 2012 - 04:52 .

[Mavaras]

Jackal7713 wrote...

Mavaras wrote...

Jackal7713 wrote...

Hydralysk wrote...

He might be acting uncivil, but not much more than most people on the internet. I'm assuming they know him personally, think about this in their shoes. Unless he's being totally out of line with his posts this will most likely come off (no matter how it's worded!) as a stranger complaining about your aquaintance is being mean to him online, and since you are donating to their charity you want them to make him stop. At best it'll be amusing to them, worst case it only reinforces the idea of 'entitlement' that we are trying to distance ourself from.

I find the use of the word "entitlement" funny. Shouldn't a paying customer feel entitled?  Lets say you by a car. When you get it, it doesn't have headlights or mirrors. Is it "entitlement" to ask or complain that it doesn't have these things?

Ya. Bioware doesn't want us to think of ourselves as consumers because then one can infer that there is entitlement, and we will have a say on what happens, because our opinions effect the viability of the market.

And  thats why Forbes jumped on them over their business practices.

Yep. It's a sad day when consumers are against other consumers.... People don't understand the real issue at play here. Journalists at Forbes know, because they are interested in sound business practices.

Modifié par Mavaras, 15 mars 2012 - 04:51 .

[Annaleah]

ThatGuy777 wrote...

With so many journalists talking about "entitlement" and spreading their ideas with the wider community, I just can't see how we can successfully retake mass effect. Bioware is a big old scary company, they can just ignore us if they want. They'll find new target markets for their games if they have to...

:'(

Don't give up! The moment we start giving up is the moment they win! 

[garrus233]

Waiting for a miracle? Me too^^

[HITMAN629]

Chatboy 91 wrote...

$43 000 in donations guys! Keep holding the line!

If the rEApers only care about $ that should have their attention

[Chatboy 91]

ThatGuy777 wrote...

With so many journalists talking about "entitlement" and spreading their ideas with the wider community, I just can't see how we can successfully retake mass effect. Bioware is a big old scary company, they can just ignore us if they want. They'll find new target markets for their games if they have to...

:'(

HOLD. THE. LINE. Never waver!

Keep holding the line until the day we can shout, "WE HELD THE LINE!"

[Gau]

Rob8228 wrote...

Ronnocloki wrote...

xAmilli0n wrote...

Just thought I'd contribute one more bit from twitter.

twitter.com/#!/JessicaMerizan/status/180148094875348993

"It indicates that I enjoy theorizing--I understand some just want a
"canon" answer. I don't. My interp. IS the only answer I need."

I realize she isn't a dev, and doesn't know anything official.  Just not a fan of the whole, your interpretation is your answer, idea.

Could someone with a twitter account point out to Miss Merizan that the current interpretation of the ending approach means that Bioware used false advertising in the weeks leading up to launch?  Casey Hudson promised a definitive ending.

What do you want me to tweet?

Point out Casey Hudson's many lies:

"There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say
any more than that…"

"Whether you're happy or angry at the ending, know this: it is an
ending. BioWare will not do a "Lost" and leave fans with more questions
than answers after finishing the game."

"I honestly think the player base is going to be really happy with the
way we've done it. You had a part in it. Every decision you've made will
impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."

and of course:


Hold the line.

[Generic Name]

Reporting in.

Any news?

[ErMacPE]

Reporting in from SSV Port Elizabeth in South Africa - keep holding!

[unclee]

Heading out for the night so I'll throw out one last usual reminder: Let's make sure to keep the Bioware bashing to a minimum. Nobody does it often (and not right now!) but I figured we should keep reminding everyone.

Let's keep this civil and respectful!

[Hydralysk]

revaew wrote...

I;m interested in what the Japanese are saying...

Unless they've pirated the game I don't see how a significant amount of people could've finished the game by now. If they are in the middle of playing through anything but the last 20 or so minutes I doubt their responses will be anything we are interested in hearing about.

[ThatGuy777]

Chatboy 91 wrote...

ThatGuy777 wrote...

With so many journalists talking about "entitlement" and spreading their ideas with the wider community, I just can't see how we can successfully retake mass effect. Bioware is a big old scary company, they can just ignore us if they want. They'll find new target markets for their games if they have to...

:'(

HOLD. THE. LINE. Never waver!

Keep holding the line until the day we can shout, "WE HELD THE LINE!"

I'll hold the line! The business/marketing student in me is telling me to give in though... Businesses get it wrong all the time. Their 'experiment' with an 'unforgettable' ending may very well be what they stand by in the long run...

[spacefiddle]

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

spacefiddle wrote...
Can you screencap that for me, and - asking a lot i know - host it somewhere i can get the file?  I get "you are not authorized to see this status" when I go there, so apparently when he blocked me, all his nasty tweets disappeared from my universe - a mixed blessing xD.

Sure.
...

(Link provided because sometimes imgur doesn't cooperate with the BSN forums)

Thanks, got it and saved.  Yeah, that's what I replied to.  Nothing in his tweet indicates, at all, that he would respond in such a manner, and i thought thanking him would be nice.  I ALSO thought the nasty nonsense in the replies below deserved a mention.   Yeah, looking at all that again, my estimate of his general level of putzosity remains unchanged.  Sigh.

[revaew]

Hydralysk wrote...

revaew wrote...

I;m interested in what the Japanese are saying...

Unless they've pirated the game I don't see how a significant amount of people could've finished the game by now. If they are in the middle of playing through anything but the last 20 or so minutes I doubt their responses will be anything we are interested in hearing about.

i can wait till they finish it....not like ive done anything in the past week anyway

[Biotic Budah]

I will not purchase another thing that has Bioware on it until they fix this. It's not so much the ending as it is their arrogance about putting out the ending THEY wanted. Yes, according to Casey Hudson this is what THEY wanted. Aren't you guys in the business of selling video games? Doesn't making a game that pleases your customers and generates buzz so that their friends want to buy it just good business? By the Goddess, even Forbes Magazine is saying you screwed the pooch business wise on this. And if not for the money, the fact that you claim "artistic license" is akin to someone forcing the director of a Christmas Pageant to put their no talent kid in the show because they own the building. You pulled the same type of thing with Dragon Age 2.

Casey Hudson also said that Bioware listens to its gamers. I certainly hope that is not just a statement to curry favor in the media. I hope that Bioware is not too arrogant to admit that they had this wrong. Quit being so in love with your own work and look at the issue from an objective standpoint. Please.

Worst ending of any genre since the Soprano's cut to black.

[Jackal7713]

Mavaras wrote...

Jackal7713 wrote...

Mavaras wrote...

Jackal7713 wrote...

Hydralysk wrote...

He might be acting uncivil, but not much more than most people on the internet. I'm assuming they know him personally, think about this in their shoes. Unless he's being totally out of line with his posts this will most likely come off (no matter how it's worded!) as a stranger complaining about your aquaintance is being mean to him online, and since you are donating to their charity you want them to make him stop. At best it'll be amusing to them, worst case it only reinforces the idea of 'entitlement' that we are trying to distance ourself from.

I find the use of the word "entitlement" funny. Shouldn't a paying customer feel entitled?  Lets say you by a car. When you get it, it doesn't have headlights or mirrors. Is it "entitlement" to ask or complain that it doesn't have these things?

Ya. Bioware doesn't want us to think of ourselves as consumers because then one can infer that there is entitlement, and we will have a say on what happens, because our opinions effect the viability of the market.

And  thats why Forbes jumped on them over their business practices.

Yep. It's a sad day when consumers are against other consumers.... People don't understand the real issue at play here. Journalists at Forbes know, because they are interested in sound business practices.

This just makes me want to hold the line even more!