101103 réponses à ce sujet

[Mavaras]

WvStolzing wrote...

I'll bump this:
Strange conversation on Twitter:
(see both)
https://twitter.com/...178958904602624
https://twitter.com/...179861132935169

Nice find.

[j78]

leonardo87 wrote...

Been reading this for a couple of days, but I am just chiming in now. Mass Effect 3 was the most amazing game I have ever played. I was so excited to see how it ended, but then I was left with an ending that had not closure. Nor did that ending make any sense. 

I was hoping for a happy ending, after playing, and working so hard through the first two games. Honestly, I cannot start it up to play again. I cannot beleive that probably the BEST story I have ever been able to experience ended like that.

Mass Effect helped me get past some tough things in my life. I am a biology student, and I am facinated yet terrified of extinction. On earth it is definetly a problem. But Mass Effect, it created a world where we would try and stop extinction ourselves. But in the end it was all for nothing. All that time wasted with no closure, and this feeling that I just got crapped on really sucks. But, I am here to help 'Hold the Line'. A story that beautiful does not deserve the end we have seen!

(I must say thought Martin Sheen's portrayal of the Illusive Man at the end was amazing. Props to him.)

welcome

[infinitekilan]

Faceless Minion wrote...

infinitekilan wrote...

I'm going to be posting this link more often from now on. Gamer entitlement? Hell yes, we are entitled. And here's why:

Starting around the 10:50 mark...


www.youtube.com/watch

This thread is moving more than quick enough without people like you pointlessly spamming it up.

You and I obviously have different definitions of "pointless" and "spam".

[Nilofeliu]

DrixDZanth wrote...

Nilofeliu wrote...

Actually Sir, you may be the one wrong..

To establish that an advertisement is false, a plaintiff must prove five things: (1) a false statement of fact has been made about the advertiser's own or another person's goods, services, or commercial activity; (2) the statement either deceives or has the potential to deceive a substantial portion of its targeted audience; (3) the deception is also likely to affect the purchasing decisions of its audience; (4) the advertising involves goods or services in interstate commerce; and (5) the deception has either resulted in or is likely to result in injury to the plaintiff. The most heavily weighed factor is the advertisement's potential to injure a customer. The injury is usually attributed to money the consumer lost through a purchase that would not have been made had the advertisement not been misleading. False statements can be defined in two ways: those that are false on their face and those that are implicitly false.

The only part that would require further proof is related to the result in injury to the plaintiff. It would ne necessary to prove that is has caused damaged somehow. Not easy to do so, but neither entirely impossible...

They provided an ending to the series didn't they? It may not be the ending you LIKE... but where do they state, in advertising their product, that you should expect an ending different than the one delivered (or, more pedantically, the one you *want*).

I dislike the ending as much as you but there was nothing deceptive in their advertising. The game ended the series. Did it leave many questions un-answered? Sure. Was it unsatisfying? Sure. But it wasn't falsely portrayed in any game advertising.

Have you read all the statements BIOWARE staff made before release? What the game would offer to the playerbase? Isn't that called advertising? If they prove false, doesn't it fall under the category of false advertising? Too tired to look for it now, but I can msg you tomorrow when I wake up.

Plus, I didn't say it would be easy, I just said it could be possible.

And on a last note, I didn't say that I liked or not the endings. I didn't even mention the endings, so why would you accuse me of such thing? And no, the game didn't end the series, and the artistic license does not apply to this case.

DarthLaxian wrote...

^^ funny...

someone (earlier on) compared the ME3 ending to receiving a Picasso when you wanted a Rembrandt I'd say it is more like wanting to buy and aircraft-carrier and receiving a floating tire instead or wanting to buy a house and getting sleeping bag!

why am I that negative?

well, after pulling through the game, i looked back and i think the game made many more misstakes, then just having very very very bad endings (that was the worst misstake and - sad but most likely true - the only one they might be able to set right - for the rest a.k.a. not doing what they should have IMHO, they would have to toss the whole game out an make a new one!...here you may look up some of the things i am talking about, which would have IMHO lead to a better experience (and to the game being the best computer game to date!):

http://social.biowar...5/index/9872881

as they can not do that IMHO (again, sadly...they could have made a game that could have blown star wars (like an interactive movie - with you shaping things and it could still have had hard battles, but also loads of cutscenes (more battles etc.)) out of the water (a whole new level of experience IMHO), but no...well, too bad, so back to:

HOLDING THE GOD-DAMED LINE...

greetings LAX
ps: i might demand a lot of a computergame nowadays, but the technology has advanced far enough now, that something like "interactive star wars", with you playing the main characters (maybe even the antagonists (which will become the protagonists, if you chose to play them more then the "good guys")) and thus seing stuff from all sides...maybe not from the reapers side, but you could have had to play TIM part time (that might have been a blast)...IMHO - yes, you may tell me off for that later - only the consoles (7 year old technology...my PC is faster then 4 X-Boxes together IMHO) are holding us down ATM - well and the companies not wanting to produce something so grand, as that would be expensive (i mean really expensive - like "Avatar"-expensive, to take a very expensive movie to base my estimate on!) and risky (would have been minimal here with ME3 as it would have had the advantage of an established franchise!)

It was me. I chose those options (Picasso vs. Rembrandt) because of the huge difference between the two schools, so people would have a better idea on how poorly the expression "artistic license" is being applied in our case. Plus, I didn't want to be offensive.

My inner thoughts however were comparing a Rembrandt with a 5 yo kids dranwings, but I thought it would be going too far..

On the other topics, I salute you...

And keep holding the line

Modifié par Nilofeliu, 15 mars 2012 - 06:52 .

[ashley_actually]

WvStolzing wrote...

I'll bump this:
Strange conversation on Twitter:
(see both)
https://twitter.com/...178958904602624
https://twitter.com/...179861132935169

Well that's just..huh. 

Off to dream land, hold the line. Let's unshamble the galaxy. 

[Koobarex]

Nilofeliu wrote...

Koobarex wrote...

As for the "V for Vendetta" quotes flying around:

Huh?

This isn't a protest against how the game industry works, because without game industry you wouldn't have Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3. This isn't about some capitalism-abolishing mumbo jumbo, it's about a fair protest by a bunch of customers who expected an amazing, multi-layered ending to a beloved trilogy (as promised), but got space magic and rushed plot changes that don't make any sense.

Please, don't even try turning this into a 100th little pseudo-revolution, they are popping around everywhere and are kinda'... I don't want to use strong words, so I'll just say "inappropriate to the topic in motion".

So let me ask you if you are happy as the way things are? You are happy with the product provided to you eventhough it was not the one announced?

Besides, if you took the time to read the statement you would have seen that in no moment I offend the companies or move against the capitalism that drives our economy. For instance I am in favor of it, and actually work with it. The problem I have tried to point out is that companies in the gaming industry are more interested in simple greed instead delivering quality products. They want us to believe that it is ok to sell a sub par game only because they say so. Have you any idea the kind of precedent this would create for new games? What if every game you bought from here on had the same problem? You buy the game but have no ending. Or worse, you buy a RPG and get a FPS.

The post is about accountability and respect for the customer's base, meaning us as players and consumers of their items. And if they fail to acknowledge us as what we are, we must act accordingly. In other words, me must search for the companies (and games) that offfer what we want and deliver what we paid for.

If you find that it is inappropriate to the topic in motion I can only say I am sorry, but many other members in here have read it and supported it for its value that goes beyond the scope of this game, but not beyond the needs of our community.

/Salute

I suspect we both mirror each others views on the flaws of this game's endings and the reason they were created, I just dislike any revolutionary rhetoric. Unless my home is attacked by the Reapers, that is. Truth be told, I think that ME3 is a tremendous game. I love it and I love the team that produced it. What I hate, is the endings - both to the game and to the trilogy - and I think they just really, really dropped the ball. Still, I don't really think it's a systems fault. It's just poor writing and a faulty QA... or standards (hopefully not).

[Generic Name]

WvStolzing wrote...

I'll bump this:
Strange conversation on Twitter:
(see both)
https://twitter.com/...178958904602624
https://twitter.com/...179861132935169

I'll take this as a sign we're doomed and we're stuck with what we have.

And . . .

[Nefelius]

good morning, people!
How's the line holding?

[spacefiddle]

ashley_actually wrote...

WvStolzing wrote...

I'll bump this:
Strange conversation on Twitter:
(see both)
https://twitter.com/...178958904602624
https://twitter.com/...179861132935169

Well that's just..huh. 

Off to dream land, hold the line. Let's unshamble the galaxy. 

Critical thinking tells me that, as I question everything, I no longer care WTF the twitter account says.  Too much fluff, winking, coy cutsey BS and nonsense.  Don't care.  Nothing you say can be trusted, nor does it contain any useful info, and what's worse is they seem to find it funny.  Like this is the outcome they wanted.  ^$?!! that.

[Pyewacket]

Nefelius wrote...

good morning, people!
How's the line holding?

I think I'm developing a tumor in the shape of a Reaper.

[infinitekilan]

spacefiddle wrote...

ashley_actually wrote...

WvStolzing wrote...

I'll bump this:
Strange conversation on Twitter:
(see both)
https://twitter.com/...178958904602624
https://twitter.com/...179861132935169

Well that's just..huh. 

Off to dream land, hold the line. Let's unshamble the galaxy. 

Critical thinking tells me that, as I question everything, I no longer care WTF the twitter account says.  Too much fluff, winking, coy cutsey BS and nonsense.  Don't care.  Nothing you say can be trusted, nor does it contain any useful info, and what's worse is they seem to find it funny.  Like this is the outcome they wanted.  ^$?!! that.

^This. Twitter's comments are about as reliable as any amount of conjecture. I'll wait for an official statement from Bioware before I make any decisions.

[mauro2222]

Nefelius wrote...

good morning, people!
How's the line holding?

Good night, going to sleep!

It's trembling a little, but just because of the "avoid question" answers.

[Nilofeliu]

Koobarex wrote...

Nilofeliu wrote...

Koobarex wrote...

As for the "V for Vendetta" quotes flying around:

Huh?

This isn't a protest against how the game industry works, because without game industry you wouldn't have Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3. This isn't about some capitalism-abolishing mumbo jumbo, it's about a fair protest by a bunch of customers who expected an amazing, multi-layered ending to a beloved trilogy (as promised), but got space magic and rushed plot changes that don't make any sense.

Please, don't even try turning this into a 100th little pseudo-revolution, they are popping around everywhere and are kinda'... I don't want to use strong words, so I'll just say "inappropriate to the topic in motion".

So let me ask you if you are happy as the way things are? You are happy with the product provided to you eventhough it was not the one announced?

Besides, if you took the time to read the statement you would have seen that in no moment I offend the companies or move against the capitalism that drives our economy. For instance I am in favor of it, and actually work with it. The problem I have tried to point out is that companies in the gaming industry are more interested in simple greed instead delivering quality products. They want us to believe that it is ok to sell a sub par game only because they say so. Have you any idea the kind of precedent this would create for new games? What if every game you bought from here on had the same problem? You buy the game but have no ending. Or worse, you buy a RPG and get a FPS.

The post is about accountability and respect for the customer's base, meaning us as players and consumers of their items. And if they fail to acknowledge us as what we are, we must act accordingly. In other words, me must search for the companies (and games) that offfer what we want and deliver what we paid for.

If you find that it is inappropriate to the topic in motion I can only say I am sorry, but many other members in here have read it and supported it for its value that goes beyond the scope of this game, but not beyond the needs of our community.

/Salute

I suspect we both mirror each others views on the flaws of this game's endings and the reason they were created, I just dislike any revolutionary rhetoric. Unless my home is attacked by the Reapers, that is. Truth be told, I think that ME3 is a tremendous game. I love it and I love the team that produced it. What I hate, is the endings - both to the game and to the trilogy - and I think they just really, really dropped the ball. Still, I don't really think it's a systems fault. It's just poor writing and a faulty QA... or standards (hopefully not).

Indeed, but the problem is that it was not the first time it ever happened. I´ve seen it before. Sometimes the company (not Bioware btw) did something about it (Bethesda) other times, they didn't (SOE with SWG-NGE).

It's becoming more and more common practise in the gaming industry, and as long as we (gamers) keep buying products from those companies who couldn't care less about us, nothing is going to change. It may just get worse...

PS. The idea of the manifest came from a post I read. I just got excited about that and decided to make a proper one...

[Cossack72]

I fell asleep 200 pages ago (can't believe I'm typing that).

What did I miss?

[DrixDZanth]

Nilofeliu wrote...

Have you read all the statements BIOWARE staff made before release? What the game would offer to the playerbase? Isn't that called advertising? If they prove false, doesn't it fall under the category of false advertising? Too tired to look for it now, but I can msg you tomorrow when I wake up.

Plus, I didn't say it would be easy, I just said it could be possible.

And on a last note, I didn't say that I liked or not the endings. I didn't even mention the endings, so why would you accuse me of such thing? And no, the game didn't end the series, and the artistic license does not apply to this case.

I'm not accusing you of anything. Haha, I'm just covering my bases. My arguments aren't emotional or rhetorical, they're justified legally and reasonablly.

Intellectual property rights allow for a manufacturer, developer, writer, etc to alter the product however they choose before release. No, bioware interviews and development promises are not legally considered advertising. Not in the slightest, and there's no legal precident to support otherwise.

Law works via precident, however, so if you could make this the first case.. well.. good luck. I'm not saying that it would be easy either, or hard. 

I'm saying that it's about as close to impossible as you can get from a legal standpoint.

However the whole debate we're having is moot anyway. Nobody is going to pay for any attempt to file a claim and a lawsuit isn't going to get us the ending we want.

[Experimentel]

spacefiddle wrote...

ashley_actually wrote...

spacefiddle wrote...

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

spacefiddle wrote...

@TamiBx

I understand how some of (them / us) feel about Mordin, but: Mordin's was a good death. The situation was made urgent, his expertise was made vital. It's a cheap, easy way out to kill off a redshirt or a new, throwaway character that's never developed (Tosh or whatever his name was in The Mallorean... sigh, Eddings). I know it can't have been easy for the team to decide to kill Mordin, but in such dire circumstances, some loss is fitting. And Mordin's death was beautifully done. It had meaning, it fit well.

Contrasted, of course, with the pointless silly meaningless of this unquestioning Shepard who can choose to die and wreck everything, or die and wreck everything, or die and wreck everything.

No, I'm not happy with Mordin's death either on the "I like the guy" level, but I have no problem with it. A perfect exit. And it's *Mordin's* choice. Shepard's endings were neither Shepard's choice, nor mine.

I don't have a problem with characters being killed off, either. It added a lot of emotional weight to the game. To the point where, when I ran into Kai Leng for the second time, on Thessia... I developed a seething hatred for the man. Killing him was a pleasure.

Oh dude.  So with you on this.  When he was creeping up behind me and the Renegade interrupt came up, I hit it without a nanosecond's hesitation, AND IT WAS SO WORTH IT.  Even just remembering it now almost heals the damaged brain cells that store my memories of the ending.

That might be my favourite part of the game. I was yelling "That was for Thane you son of a *****" at the TV right before Shepard did. Then I laughed my butt off when she echoed me. Oh ME3 didn't we almost have it all? 

Did anyone NOT shout at the screen in murderous triumph when that happened?

I so did. I was like TAKE THAT ****.

[WvStolzing]

infinitekilan wrote...

spacefiddle wrote...

ashley_actually wrote...

WvStolzing wrote...

I'll bump this:
Strange conversation on Twitter:
(see both)
https://twitter.com/...178958904602624
https://twitter.com/...179861132935169

Well that's just..huh. 

Off to dream land, hold the line. Let's unshamble the galaxy. 

Critical thinking tells me that, as I question everything, I no longer care WTF the twitter account says.  Too much fluff, winking, coy cutsey BS and nonsense.  Don't care.  Nothing you say can be trusted, nor does it contain any useful info, and what's worse is they seem to find it funny.  Like this is the outcome they wanted.  ^$?!! that.

^This. Twitter's comments are about as reliable as any amount of conjecture. I'll wait for an official statement from Bioware before I make any decisions.

Well this latest thing is so strange, it confirms that this is a bot after all.
Thanks to user 'imporator' who PMed me about this.

[Nilofeliu]

Cossack72 wrote...

I fell asleep 200 pages ago (can't believe I'm typing that).

What did I miss?

Nothing important. Just the same complaints, people talking about how we got screwed..

Some late arrivals..

And even a political manifest against how the game industry is dealing with us...

WAKE UP AND FALL IN LINE...

[sumo390]

Hold the line, maybe something shall happen later today

[Lord Costantino]

Experimentel wrote...

spacefiddle wrote...

ashley_actually wrote...

spacefiddle wrote...

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

spacefiddle wrote...

@TamiBx

I understand how some of (them / us) feel about Mordin, but: Mordin's was a good death. The situation was made urgent, his expertise was made vital. It's a cheap, easy way out to kill off a redshirt or a new, throwaway character that's never developed (Tosh or whatever his name was in The Mallorean... sigh, Eddings). I know it can't have been easy for the team to decide to kill Mordin, but in such dire circumstances, some loss is fitting. And Mordin's death was beautifully done. It had meaning, it fit well.

Contrasted, of course, with the pointless silly meaningless of this unquestioning Shepard who can choose to die and wreck everything, or die and wreck everything, or die and wreck everything.

No, I'm not happy with Mordin's death either on the "I like the guy" level, but I have no problem with it. A perfect exit. And it's *Mordin's* choice. Shepard's endings were neither Shepard's choice, nor mine.

I don't have a problem with characters being killed off, either. It added a lot of emotional weight to the game. To the point where, when I ran into Kai Leng for the second time, on Thessia... I developed a seething hatred for the man. Killing him was a pleasure.

Oh dude.  So with you on this.  When he was creeping up behind me and the Renegade interrupt came up, I hit it without a nanosecond's hesitation, AND IT WAS SO WORTH IT.  Even just remembering it now almost heals the damaged brain cells that store my memories of the ending.

That might be my favourite part of the game. I was yelling "That was for Thane you son of a *****" at the TV right before Shepard did. Then I laughed my butt off when she echoed me. Oh ME3 didn't we almost have it all? 

Did anyone NOT shout at the screen in murderous triumph when that happened?

I so did. I was like TAKE THAT ****.

 I am a Paragon player and I SSSSOOOOO choose the Renegade option when we get to kill him 

[Shazbot69]

I dunno, i feel really bad for Casey and crew now cause it does feel like there is something in the pipe for ending DLC. It's just I'm not sure why they are letting this spin out like this. It probably would of kept a lot of negative reviews off the board if they just hit everyone with a DLC list over the weekend because this kind of PR is just too hard to control. Even if they did release it for free(which I think it should not because honest pay for honest work), the response will be uneven....sometimes the surprise is just not worth it no? It just feels really gutsy to try this in this method when so many people are emotionally invested in this.

[Nilofeliu]

DrixDZanth wrote...

Nilofeliu wrote...

Have you read all the statements BIOWARE staff made before release? What the game would offer to the playerbase? Isn't that called advertising? If they prove false, doesn't it fall under the category of false advertising? Too tired to look for it now, but I can msg you tomorrow when I wake up.

Plus, I didn't say it would be easy, I just said it could be possible.

And on a last note, I didn't say that I liked or not the endings. I didn't even mention the endings, so why would you accuse me of such thing? And no, the game didn't end the series, and the artistic license does not apply to this case.

I'm not accusing you of anything. Haha, I'm just covering my bases. My arguments aren't emotional or rhetorical, they're justified legally and reasonablly.

Intellectual property rights allow for a manufacturer, developer, writer, etc to alter the product however they choose before release. No, bioware interviews and development promises are not legally considered advertising. Not in the slightest, and there's no legal precident to support otherwise.

Law works via precident, however, so if you could make this the first case.. well.. good luck. I'm not saying that it would be easy either, or hard. 

I'm saying that it's about as close to impossible as you can get from a legal standpoint.

However the whole debate we're having is moot anyway. Nobody is going to pay for any attempt to file a claim and a lawsuit isn't going to get us the ending we want.

I´ve worked with cases that followed the same basic concepts. But as I said in my original post, the hard part would be to prove injury, since we are talking about a virtual piece of "artistic license".

And true, even I as a lawyer wouldn't bother to pursue such a claim... Too much headache...

[WvStolzing]

Lord Costantino wrote...
I am a Paragon player and I SSSSOOOOO choose the Renegade option when we get to kill him 

That, and shooting Udina.

too bad there was no renegade interrupt for godkid-casper.

[Pyewacket]

Shazbot69 wrote...

I dunno, i feel really bad for Casey and crew now cause it does feel like there is something in the pipe for ending DLC. It's just I'm not sure why they are letting this spin out like this. It probably would of kept a lot of negative reviews off the board if they just hit everyone with a DLC list over the weekend because this kind of PR is just too hard to control. Even if they did release it for free(which I think it should not because honest pay for honest work), the response will be uneven....sometimes the surprise is just not worth it no? It just feels really gutsy to try this in this method when so many people are emotionally invested in this.

You say gutsy.  I say suicidal.  It's like they're sitting next to a wounded puma and poking it with a stick.  Not smart.

[Omega Scythe]

WvStolzing wrote...

infinitekilan wrote...

spacefiddle wrote...

ashley_actually wrote...

WvStolzing wrote...

I'll bump this:
Strange conversation on Twitter:
(see both)
https://twitter.com/...178958904602624
https://twitter.com/...179861132935169

Well that's just..huh. 

Off to dream land, hold the line. Let's unshamble the galaxy. 

Critical thinking tells me that, as I question everything, I no longer care WTF the twitter account says.  Too much fluff, winking, coy cutsey BS and nonsense.  Don't care.  Nothing you say can be trusted, nor does it contain any useful info, and what's worse is they seem to find it funny.  Like this is the outcome they wanted.  ^$?!! that.

^This. Twitter's comments are about as reliable as any amount of conjecture. I'll wait for an official statement from Bioware before I make any decisions.

Well this latest thing is so strange, it confirms that this is a bot after all.
Thanks to user 'imporator' who PMed me about this.

Wait, what?  Are you saying that @masseffect is run by a bot?  Because I call shenanigans.  Bioware would never put a bot in charge of the front line of this PR nightmare, especially when it could say something very dumb.