101103 réponses à ce sujet

[Cossack72]

Nilofeliu wrote...

Cossack72 wrote...

I fell asleep 200 pages ago (can't believe I'm typing that).

What did I miss?

Nothing important. Just the same complaints, people talking about how we got screwed..

Some late arrivals..

And even a political manifest against how the game industry is dealing with us...

WAKE UP AND FALL IN LINE...

Aye aye.

[infinitekilan]

Nilofeliu wrote...

Koobarex wrote...

Nilofeliu wrote...

Koobarex wrote...

As for the "V for Vendetta" quotes flying around:

Huh?

This isn't a protest against how the game industry works, because without game industry you wouldn't have Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3. This isn't about some capitalism-abolishing mumbo jumbo, it's about a fair protest by a bunch of customers who expected an amazing, multi-layered ending to a beloved trilogy (as promised), but got space magic and rushed plot changes that don't make any sense.

Please, don't even try turning this into a 100th little pseudo-revolution, they are popping around everywhere and are kinda'... I don't want to use strong words, so I'll just say "inappropriate to the topic in motion".

So let me ask you if you are happy as the way things are? You are happy with the product provided to you eventhough it was not the one announced?

Besides, if you took the time to read the statement you would have seen that in no moment I offend the companies or move against the capitalism that drives our economy. For instance I am in favor of it, and actually work with it. The problem I have tried to point out is that companies in the gaming industry are more interested in simple greed instead delivering quality products. They want us to believe that it is ok to sell a sub par game only because they say so. Have you any idea the kind of precedent this would create for new games? What if every game you bought from here on had the same problem? You buy the game but have no ending. Or worse, you buy a RPG and get a FPS.

The post is about accountability and respect for the customer's base, meaning us as players and consumers of their items. And if they fail to acknowledge us as what we are, we must act accordingly. In other words, me must search for the companies (and games) that offfer what we want and deliver what we paid for.

If you find that it is inappropriate to the topic in motion I can only say I am sorry, but many other members in here have read it and supported it for its value that goes beyond the scope of this game, but not beyond the needs of our community.

/Salute

I suspect we both mirror each others views on the flaws of this game's endings and the reason they were created, I just dislike any revolutionary rhetoric. Unless my home is attacked by the Reapers, that is. Truth be told, I think that ME3 is a tremendous game. I love it and I love the team that produced it. What I hate, is the endings - both to the game and to the trilogy - and I think they just really, really dropped the ball. Still, I don't really think it's a systems fault. It's just poor writing and a faulty QA... or standards (hopefully not).

Indeed, but the problem is that it was not the first time it ever happened. I´ve seen it before. Sometimes the company (not Bioware btw) did something about it (Bethesda) other times, they didn't (SOE with SWG-NGE).

It's becoming more and more common practise in the gaming industry, and as long as we (gamers) keep buying products from those companies who couldn't care less about us, nothing is going to change. It may just get worse...

PS. The idea of the manifest came from a post I read. I just got excited about that and decided to make a proper one...

The protest at hand and a protest against the game industry itself could well be considered one and the same. People claim we come across as entitled, whiney crybabies, but regardless of opinion, the game industry is still an industry that wouldn't exist without its customers. The industry tries to control us and tell us what we should want in our games, and if we don't like something, they give us the "haha who cares, deal with it" treatment. Our dollar should have more of a say in what we want in our entertainment than it does. So are we entitled? Hell yes we are, and I'm proud of it. Our demands keep the games we love from growing stagnant and old. Our demands influence developers to come up with new and innovative features. So essentially, as I have already said, yes, this is a protest against the game industry itself. Or at the very least it could be. We just happen to be focusing on the endings of ME3 rather than the larger issue.

[DrixDZanth]

Nilofeliu wrote...

DrixDZanth wrote...

Nilofeliu wrote...

Have you read all the statements BIOWARE staff made before release? What the game would offer to the playerbase? Isn't that called advertising? If they prove false, doesn't it fall under the category of false advertising? Too tired to look for it now, but I can msg you tomorrow when I wake up.

Plus, I didn't say it would be easy, I just said it could be possible.

And on a last note, I didn't say that I liked or not the endings. I didn't even mention the endings, so why would you accuse me of such thing? And no, the game didn't end the series, and the artistic license does not apply to this case.

I'm not accusing you of anything. Haha, I'm just covering my bases. My arguments aren't emotional or rhetorical, they're justified legally and reasonablly.

Intellectual property rights allow for a manufacturer, developer, writer, etc to alter the product however they choose before release. No, bioware interviews and development promises are not legally considered advertising. Not in the slightest, and there's no legal precident to support otherwise.

Law works via precident, however, so if you could make this the first case.. well.. good luck. I'm not saying that it would be easy either, or hard. 

I'm saying that it's about as close to impossible as you can get from a legal standpoint.

However the whole debate we're having is moot anyway. Nobody is going to pay for any attempt to file a claim and a lawsuit isn't going to get us the ending we want.

I´ve worked with cases that followed the same basic concepts. But as I said in my original post, the hard part would be to prove injury, since we are talking about a virtual piece of "artistic license".

And true, even I as a lawyer wouldn't bother to pursue such a claim... Too much headache...

I'd be interested to see the cases you are referring to.

Like I said, I'm arguing from a legal standpoint rather than a strictly logical standpoint.

If you could find a case where development interviews and previews are considered ADVERTISING of a finished product, you would have a case yourself. That being said, I don't think this case could be made.

Meh, at the end of the day HOLD THE LINE. Bioware has to be listening. Tens of thousands of users have spoken up.

[Dj14365]

Nilofeliu wrote...

Cossack72 wrote...

I fell asleep 200 pages ago (can't believe I'm typing that).

What did I miss?

Nothing important. Just the same complaints, people talking about how we got screwed..

Some late arrivals..

And even a political manifest against how the game industry is dealing with us...

WAKE UP AND FALL IN LINE...

There were also a few new articles. I'm so tired I can't even remember where they were from, I want to say the sources were main stream non-gaming journals but I just don't know. They were both more + then - though.

[toots1221]

You know I've really tried to hold out hope and trust Bioware. I've been watching my favorite ME3 moments on youtube and I just can't believe that the people that could create a game that was so good would leave the endings as they are. And everytime they drop coy little hints on their twitter account it gets my hopes up again. I'm getting tired of this emotional roller coster. I realize the game just came out in Japan but I hope we get something more substantial from them soon. This whole silence except when we want to drop little hints here and there is starting to sour me on Bioware as a whole.

[Lord Costantino]

WvStolzing wrote...

Lord Costantino wrote...
I am a Paragon player and I SSSSOOOOO choose the Renegade option when we get to kill him 

That, and shooting Udina.

too bad there was no renegade interrupt for godkid-casper.

If their was an option for Casper I would have gave him the finger as the Ghostbusters team came in to capture him. Then procceed to shutting down the Reapers and the Reapers ONLY, we know they have a specific Code to do that 

[WvStolzing]

Omega Scythe wrote...

WvStolzing wrote...

infinitekilan wrote...

spacefiddle wrote...

ashley_actually wrote...

WvStolzing wrote...

I'll bump this:
Strange conversation on Twitter:
(see both)
https://twitter.com/...178958904602624
https://twitter.com/...179861132935169

Well that's just..huh. 

Off to dream land, hold the line. Let's unshamble the galaxy. 

Critical thinking tells me that, as I question everything, I no longer care WTF the twitter account says.  Too much fluff, winking, coy cutsey BS and nonsense.  Don't care.  Nothing you say can be trusted, nor does it contain any useful info, and what's worse is they seem to find it funny.  Like this is the outcome they wanted.  ^$?!! that.

^This. Twitter's comments are about as reliable as any amount of conjecture. I'll wait for an official statement from Bioware before I make any decisions.

Well this latest thing is so strange, it confirms that this is a bot after all.
Thanks to user 'imporator' who PMed me about this.

Wait, what?  Are you saying that @masseffect is run by a bot?  Because I call shenanigans.  Bioware would never put a bot in charge of the front line of this PR nightmare, especially when it could say something very dumb.

Well he/she/it doesn't even go to bed. Where does he/she/it live?
Joking aside: didn't one of the BW employees on twitter insinuate that it's a bot?

at least they've allowed their bot to ask questions about the ending.

[Nilofeliu]

You gotta love it..

Just look at this:

Matthew Schmidt‏@BeerGutBarr

@masseffect @majindeadite102 No, no. You've got it all wrong. The Reapers were trying to save the Galaxy from Sheaprd.

It would provide a better ending than the one we got...


Even the tweets are changing. More and more people complaining about the ending..

Stay Strong, and Stay United..

HOLD THE LINE!

Modifié par Nilofeliu, 15 mars 2012 - 07:08 .

[Nilofeliu]

double post. My fault..

Modifié par Nilofeliu, 15 mars 2012 - 07:08 .

[Lord Costantino]

Nilofeliu wrote...

double post. My fault..

*salute*

Holding Strong!

[WvStolzing]

Here's a PM that I got, from user 'imporator'

>I think i know exactly how you are feeling (you all).
>And i know of some others like me, whe have no Post-Permit in the Thread.
>But we are watching from the Sideline (and holding the Flanks :-) silently)

Modifié par WvStolzing, 15 mars 2012 - 07:09 .

[Lord Costantino]

Nilofeliu wrote...

double post. My fault..

Now you make my post look retarded LOLZ 

[Generic Name]

Nilofeliu wrote...

You gotta love it..

Just look at this:

Matthew Schmidt‏@BeerGutBarr

@masseffect @majindeadite102 No, no. You've got it all wrong. The Reapers were trying to save the Galaxy from Sheaprd.

It would provide a better ending than the one we got...


Even the tweets are changing. More and more people complaining about the ending..

Stay Strong, and Stay United..

HOLD THE LINE!

Man the ending makes Daikatana look like a 10/10.

Yes. I went there.

[Pyewacket]

Imma sleep now... m'tired.

Hol' tha line.

[Omega Scythe]

WvStolzing wrote...

Omega Scythe wrote...

WvStolzing wrote...

infinitekilan wrote...

spacefiddle wrote...

ashley_actually wrote...

WvStolzing wrote...

I'll bump this:
Strange conversation on Twitter:
(see both)
https://twitter.com/...178958904602624
https://twitter.com/...179861132935169

Well that's just..huh. 

Off to dream land, hold the line. Let's unshamble the galaxy. 

Critical thinking tells me that, as I question everything, I no longer care WTF the twitter account says.  Too much fluff, winking, coy cutsey BS and nonsense.  Don't care.  Nothing you say can be trusted, nor does it contain any useful info, and what's worse is they seem to find it funny.  Like this is the outcome they wanted.  ^$?!! that.

^This. Twitter's comments are about as reliable as any amount of conjecture. I'll wait for an official statement from Bioware before I make any decisions.

Well this latest thing is so strange, it confirms that this is a bot after all.
Thanks to user 'imporator' who PMed me about this.

Wait, what?  Are you saying that @masseffect is run by a bot?  Because I call shenanigans.  Bioware would never put a bot in charge of the front line of this PR nightmare, especially when it could say something very dumb.

Well he/she/it doesn't even go to bed. Where does he/she/it live?
Joking aside: didn't one of the BW employees on twitter insinuate that it's a bot?

at least they've allowed their bot to ask questions about the ending.

He/She/It doesn't sleep because SPAAAAAAAACE MAAAAAAGIIIIIIIIIC.

I don't recall if any of the BW employees insinuated as such.  Where did you see this?

Also, they might change out shifts on manning the twitter.  Not really sure.

[Shazbot69]

Dream time mr bubbles...

[Nilofeliu]

Lord Costantino wrote...

Nilofeliu wrote...

double post. My fault..

Now you make my post look retarded LOLZ 

Sorry???? Just edit as I did mine. /lol

"I see dark clouds in the horizon..."

Well, it's past 4 AM here and I really should get some sleep.

Be back in the morning.

Have Faith People...

Modifié par Nilofeliu, 15 mars 2012 - 07:15 .

[Chatboy 91]

WvStolzing wrote...

Here's a PM that I got, from user 'imporator'

>I think i know exactly how you are feeling (you all).
>And i know of some others like me, whe have no Post-Permit in the Thread.
>But we are watching from the Sideline (and holding the Flanks :-) silently)

*Salutes* Stand strong!

[Dj14365]

Pyewacket wrote...

Shazbot69 wrote...
I dunno, i feel really bad for Casey and crew now cause it does feel like there is something in the pipe for ending DLC. It's just I'm not sure why they are letting this spin out like this. It probably would of kept a lot of negative reviews off the board if they just hit everyone with a DLC list over the weekend because this kind of PR is just too hard to control. Even if they did release it for free(which I think it should not because honest pay for honest work), the response will be uneven....sometimes the surprise is just not worth it no? It just feels really gutsy to try this in this method when so many people are emotionally invested in this.

You say gutsy.  I say suicidal.  It's like they're sitting next to a wounded puma and poking it with a stick.  Not smart.

 
Over the weekend they were essentially hamstrung into keeping quiet because the game had yet to be released globally (final releases took play in Asia the past day or so). With that out of the way I can't imagine that it wouldn't be in BW's best interest to at least make some sort of announcement to at the very least get a tourniquet on the situation. If they do make an alt. ending dlc it probably will be paid even though they would likely make more in the long run by giving it for free. It would go a long way to repair some of the damage they have done within the community.

[SkaldFish]

spacefiddle wrote...

PsylenceRD wrote...
I find it even worse when we get smacked by BioWare with such comments as "if college taught me anything, it's to always question what is presented to me. Critical thinking ftw." It's a bit of a slap in the face.

It's more than a bit, it's complete and utter BS.  IN fact, if we analyze that statement with a little critical thinking, it doesn't hold up at all.  WIth any interface, we must trust the controls.  Now, to question the controls, or the base tenets of the game as we've learned them, at every step, is incredibly tedious. 

You might, for example, run around every corner, every dead end, every hallway looking for one more mod, one more box.  You might even go stare at every computer terminal model in the game.  But why?  The interface taught me that I'll see a pretty obvious ( ) at decent range for most items.  So, I learned to scan quickly over anything suspect, looking for that ( ).  WIth me so far?

According to this thoughtless spin damage-control BW statement, I should have not trusted that ( ).  I should have walked over to EVERY SINGLE ITEM IN THE GAME and hit Space, seeing if i could interact with it.  QUESTION EVERYTHING!

Falls apart completely.  Absolutely a straw man argument, and it's an insult to our intelligence.  We're led on rails down the last part of the game.  There's no indication that the game itself is no longer to be trusted.

Well said. I found the comment quite insulting - a sideways ad hominem attack that basically means "Did you go to college? Didn't you see the obvious clues? If you were smart (like me), you would have."

The fact is that in any story, whether it be a book, a movie, a game -- there are well-understood cues (and rules about how to present them) when you've hidden something that has to be figured out. The author(s) can't just suddenly stop providing any of those cues, then say after the fact that the reader/viewer/player should have "used critical thinking" to figure things out. If you don't use the cues, you're changing the rules in rhe middle of the game and thus deceiving the player.

No quicker way to elicit a WTF and send players the message "There are no rules. You could be pantsed anytime, anywhere. Have fun with the game!"

I think the BioWare devs are better than that, so I'll go with "innocent until proven guilty" for now. But some of the comments and tweets worry me.

[WvStolzing]

Omega Scythe wrote...

He/She/It doesn't sleep because SPAAAAAAAACE MAAAAAAGIIIIIIIIIC.

I don't recall if any of the BW employees insinuated as such.  Where did you see this?

Also, they might change out shifts on manning the twitter.  Not really sure.

Here:

https://twitter.com/...132561752829952

I might have misunderstood, though; it's getting (very) late; I'm a member of the Turkish Fleet who lives in the GMT-6 timezone (as opposed to GMT+2)!

[CitizenSnips28]

Lurking since I beat the game last night. Man I was warned that the ending was pretty terrible and I still wasn't prepared when it happened. I suppose its a credit to Bioware that they developed a series of video games that created genuine emotion, as nerdy as that sounds, but the last ten minutes tainted the entire experience and disconnected me from the story.

And don't tell me the ending was deep and were supposed to use critical thinking to decide for ourselves what all the vague space magic was all about. This isn't a painting for us to interpret. We are sharing a virtual journey with the developers of this game creating the story and environment. That's what sets video games apart from say, books or movies. We are experiencing the story from the first person perspective rather than as third person observers. We rely on the developers to great the story we progress through so when they decide to withhold information and become vague, it doesn't so much incite wonder and mystery as much as confusion and disconnect. We either switch roles and start making up the world in our own heads (possibly to be invalidated by future dlc's or sequels) or we just give up on the story all together. Were it a crappy story to begin with few would care but since many of us were deeply engrossed in the journey, such a end is gut wrenching.

Oh uh anyway, so as dorky and unexpected as it is for me to say it, Rocky Mountain outpost, holding the line!

[Deventh]

This thread will reach 2000 pages before BioWare respond to the issue...

[Lurchibald]

One other thing about the Synthesis ending that confuses me is that if everybody has had their dna completely changed then how come it seems that Joker still has Brittle Bone Disease? I mean, when I went for that ending I expected him to be cured I guess...

[Flammenpanzer]

Deventh wrote...

This thread will reach 2000 pages before BioWare respond to the issue...

I think so too.