101103 réponses à ce sujet

[TheRealMithril]

You already are told you are indoctrinated outright by the Prothean VI, when he mentions "indoctrinated presence detected" as you approach it. That is YOU not Leng who is behind you. This is later confirmed again after you breached the TIM HQ (I was talking about Leng previously but I got the order wrong, but it doesn't matter, it still confirms you as being Indoctrinated) when the VI tells you that it's Indoctrination locks have been disabled, so now you can ask whatever you want. So there, no reason to look any further. The issue is I purchased a game with NO ending... that .. just... sucks..

Modifié par TheRealMithril, 15 mars 2012 - 12:57 .

[die-yng]

IxSITHxI wrote...

Ive been reading through a lot of the articles out there and skimming the posts on here the past couple days. I find it funny that most of the video game websites have been mercilessly bashing fans for wanting a new ending. Calling us whiny brats and what not (kotaku, IGN, etc.). I never really trusted IGN for much and now I just hate them and I used to like Kotaku.

What I find hilarious is that Forbes, the business site, is in favor of us and agrees with us (as well as my new favorite game website, gamefront).

Im sure these links are already on here but this thread moves really effin fast. These should all be tweeted out to BioWare. These are also links everyone should look through

http://www.gamefront...-fans-are-right

http://www.forbes.co...-mass-effect-3/
http://www.forbes.co...-good-business/
http://www.forbes.co...er-entitlement/



Hold the Line.

It makes kind of sense, with Forbes I think. They should know when a company delivers a satisfying rpoduct and when it doesn't.

I'm kind of wondering about IGN, though. I would have thought that they might see it a little bit more from the gamers point of view.

Modifié par die-yng, 15 mars 2012 - 12:52 .

[malra]

TheRealMithril wrote...

You already are told you are indoctrinated outright by the Prothean VI, when he mentions "indoctrinated presence detected" as you approach it. That is YOU not Leng who is behind you. This is later confirmed again after you have killed Leng, when the VI tells you that it's Indoctrination locks have been disabled, so now you can ask whatever you want. So there, no reason to look any further. The issue is I purchased a game with NO ending... that .. just... sucks..

I actually find this to be a the most credible point for an indoctrination theory.  It bothered me in the game also, and still bothers me now, in fact when I think about it I just get angry.

[Prudii Aden]

die-yng wrote...

IxSITHxI wrote...

Ive been reading through a lot of the articles out there and skimming the posts on here the past couple days. I find it funny that most of the video game websites have been mercilessly bashing fans for wanting a new ending. Calling us whiny brats and what not (kotaku, IGN, etc.). I never really trusted IGN for much and now I just hate them and I used to like Kotaku.

What I find hilarious is that Forbes, the business site, is in favor of us and agrees with us (as well as my new favorite game website, gamefront).

Im sure these links are already on here but this thread moves really effin fast. These should all be tweeted out to BioWare. These are also links everyone should look through

http://www.gamefront...-fans-are-right

http://www.forbes.co...-mass-effect-3/
http://www.forbes.co...-good-business/
http://www.forbes.co...er-entitlement/



Hold the Line.

It makes kind of sense, with Forbes I think. They should know when a company delivers a satisfying rpoduct and when it doesn't.

I'm kind of wondering about IGN, though. I would have thought that they might see it a little bit more from the gamers point of view.

The only snag with the Forbes articles is that they've got the standard disclaimer on them -"The author is a Forbes contributor. The opinions expressed are those of the writer.
". Not to say the articles aren't good - they are, however, they are on the Forbes site and haven't been yanked...

[Ravax]

Guys guys guys... (and ladies)

Someone pointed me in the direction of this video...



Look at the background image, and read the lyrics.. its just TOOOO similar to our god child / stargazer, etc.. soooo eerily similar its frigign weird.. and the video was uploaded 1 year ago!

[pius_22]

Xyalon wrote...

What I don't get is why it's marketed as "Take Back Earth"

Regardless of whatever option you take, regardless of whether Shep lives or dies, you never, ever, get to see if you actually took back earth or not. It's inferred, buy the fact that Big Ben is still standing and there are people living there, but the mass relays are buggered, you've got people who are left lightyears away from their home worlds and even using conventional FTL travel may never get back there in their lifetime. Hell, to all intents and purposes the reapers have won. The child-like emperor atop the presidium ivory tower was correct; Synthetic life has indeed wiped out all organic life and has used organic life to make the decision.

Because even if you chose green, the life left behind is no longer organic.

If you choose green then dont ´t you actually creating borg? Or some species 8472 stuff? I think room for interpretation is good, but with this ending you have to come up with new concepts by yourself. Definitly  not satisfiyng!!!

[malra]

PresidentCowboy wrote...

Xyalon wrote...

What I don't get is why it's marketed as "Take Back Earth"

Regardless of whatever option you take, regardless of whether Shep lives or dies, you never, ever, get to see if you actually took back earth or not. It's inferred, buy the fact that Big Ben is still standing and there are people living there, but the mass relays are buggered, you've got people who are left lightyears away from their home worlds and even using conventional FTL travel may never get back there in their lifetime. Hell, to all intents and purposes the reapers have won. The child-like emperor atop the presidium ivory tower was correct; Synthetic life has indeed wiped out all organic life and has used organic life to make the decision.

Because even if you chose green, the life left behind is no longer organic.

Yeah to that extent Shepard is almost a Hawke-level anti-hero. Sets out to save Earth and all galactic civilization... destroys galactic civilization, and even if Earth is still standing, it's very overpopulated and still in ruin with no way to get the supplies to rebuild.

but even if we were all really going to fall for the "its great art line" the anti-hero thing can only hold up as great art if you've been playing your character that way the whole time.  even the renegade options didn't always line up with anti-hero

[Apfelweinbrauer]

Ravax wrote...

Look at the background image, and read the lyrics.. its just TOOOO similar to our god child / stargazer, etc.. soooo eerily similar its frigign weird.. and the video was uploaded 1 year ago!

That picture is a well known background for desktops, it's called "winter on mars".

[Friera]

Andreastornqvist wrote...

I want to share this once again!

"TIAX RULES ALL posted:

I am making this post in an honest attempt to help people understand and appreciate the endings more. I personally feel after reading posts here and hearing from friends that, most of this anger over the endings is caused because they did not see the over 4000 asset "destroy" option ending.

I hope to make a complete and easy explanation of the ending, comment if you think I need to adjust or add to it.
This post does not apply to those who just don't like it because of its lack of detailed epilogue.

First of all there is one ending that is the real ending and all other endings are tricks and illusions. In fact the only REAL ending in the whole game is if you pick the destroy option with over 4000 assets. The real ending is only that 20 seconds they show of Shepard in the rubble and then takes a breath.

That (supposed to be) eye opening moment is supposed to tell you that Shepard was never on the Citadel. He lies just where he was knocked out by the destroyer blast, in the rubble of London. This is where the confusion takes place.

Everything that happens after the destroyer hits Shepard during his charge is a combination of a dying Shepard's hallucinations and reaper indoctrination trying to take over. Right after the blast, Shepard wakes with his armor half blown off. This is not just cut scene fubar, this is the start of his indoctrination fight when everything is slightly off, as in a dream (because it is)

If you listen to the radio chatter before Shepard goes into the beam, you can hear allied forces saying that NOBODY made it to the beam, not you and not Anderson before you. This is the real world radio chatter now in the background subconscious of this hallucination.

After he reaches the Citadel there is more oddness that should be setting off triggers for the player that something is not right, that this is an illusion... Anderson describes shifting walls and only ever agrees with Shep on his surroundings after Shep describes his and saying "like the collector base you described". Everything is just a projection from Shepard's mind and subconscious.

When you are having the conversation with TIM and Anderson, It's all just again Sheps subconscious reminding himself and the player about indoctrination and what happens when you stop fighting it... you lose control (shoot Anderson) This is similar to the nightmares Shep has of the boy. This is the game through Shep's subconscious telling you do not follow the kid, you will burn (kid goes up in flames). And the last one when you see she with the kid and they both burn. Again telling you, no matter what happens you will get burned by trusting the kid.

There are more allusions to not trusting Cerberus/reapers throughout the game as well. You really start to see them after you understand the indoctrination ending. For example: TIM talking to Kai Lang says "Shepard was always going to stay true to his ideals" subtlety suggesting that the player should do the same and not let TIM/reapers compromise you destroying the reapers. The goal you have had since the very beginning. Also before the attack on Cerberus base I believe, there is a quantum comm. call between you and Hackett. You have the option of saying something like "what if TIM is right and the reapers CAN be controlled" and Hackett shoots you down. Gives you a direct order to kill TIM and destroy reapers. No questions asked. Once again, game trying to remind you of the one true goal and keep you focused.

Now about the Catalyst and the crucible conversation and decision itself... By this time indoctrination is very close to taking over. The end is near. The catalyst looks like the little boy because of shep's subconscious and indoctrination is feeding off that. Everything in this scene is A LIE. The choices and how they are presented to you are all part of the deception to get Shepard to give his mind into indoctrination and lose the will to fight it.

You are presented first with the destroy option. He says "I KNOW you have been thinking of destroying us but..." The catalyst is scared, knows that its only chance is to manipulate Shepard here and now. It's painted in renegade red to through you off. This is purposefully done to manipulate Shepard's decision to fight. He tells you all synthetic life will be wiped out, including Geth and including Shepard because he is partially cybernetic himself. In sales you always present the worst option first and the best for last. So the next 2 options can then be presented and made more appealable.

the other 2 options do not let you ever see Shepard "alive" at the end so to me BOTH of these options are fails and result in you being indoctrinated and/or dying right there on the streets of London. Without that last breath scene. There can be no happy ending. I will elaborate on them a bit more separately.

Synthesis was in the middle and last option presented, this is what they ultimately want. He even likened the synthesis to husks in his description. The reapers want to harvest organics and change them into hybrids. By choosing synthesis you would be doing their work for them in an instant. Basically I see this as total fail ending, you have been played.

Now the control option was not presented as prominently as the synthesis but was still painted in paragon blue and offered as an option still better then destroy. In the end the result for choosing this is the same behind the scenes. Shepard gave into indoctrination/death and you do not get the breath tidbit.

So if you choose destroy like I believe we are somewhat intended to, remember that the explosion cut scene and relays exploding and Normandy running/crashing ALL OF THAT IS STILL HALLUCINATION. This is Shepard's subconscious imagining a "happy ending" he imagines reapers destroyed, earth fighters celebrating, and he imagines and ending for companions. The lush new planet-scape is just a metaphor for starting over and them being at peace. That's why immediately after they show Shep waking up, to solidify the dream idea.

At that point you are supposed to start thinking about what really happened. Shepard is alive, on Earth, has conquered indoctrination. Another HUGE thing is that after destroying the reapers you were supposed to be dead. Recalling the little boy "you will die as you are partly synthetic". When you wake up after that in the rubble, it should be a clear indication that you have been lied to. You did not die like the boy said you would, he just said that to dissuade you. The rest is left even more ambiguous but...

I personally believe that Shepard's job ended there. His companions who followed him at the last rush are dead beside him not suddenly on the Normandy and suddenly in a new system living happily ever after. That only happens in dreams He gathered the forces needed to beat the reapers. And it's the allied forces of the galaxy that ultimately stop the reapers. And that force would never have been formed without Shepard. As the stargazer after the credits says "the details have been lost to history" and there is still "one more story" to tell. So even though Shep was never on the citadel, the idea that Shep is a legend and is credited in destroying the reapers is true.

Love it or hate it, I whole heartedly believe that we will see DLC in the future that will start with Shepard taking that breath in the rubble. It will be something like Waking up after beating indoctrination and actually concluding the story in a more definitive way. And possibly a lot more "happy" though I'm more interested in "real" then some contrived happiness.



TL;DR (oh come on read above, its good
2 parts, first everything that happens between Shepard getting hit by the destroyer eye blast during the London charge and the "take a breath" scene (that you only get by choosing correct choices and having high enough EMF) Is a hallucination/indoctrination process that Shepard is fighting in his head.


There is only one real ending, the ending you have been groomed for since the beginning. Destroy the reapers at all costs. All other endings that do not have Shepard alive at the end are lies. They are illusions and means that Shepard gave into indoctrination and never awoke back on earth to realize this. And the player doesn't understand.

All the supposed plot holes can be explained by this. See examples above. Ask me questions if you have them, I will try to clarify for you in comments.

Also if you would rather watch 3 minutes of youtube, this is a rather good but not totally complete ending explaination. I approve


FINAL NOTE
I love this ending because of what Bioware did. They actually indoctrinated their own customers. They made and ending where you the player play through a real-time indoctrination of not just your character but of the player. They presented the ending in such a way that you had to fight indoctrination right along with Shepard. The game actively tries to fool you and manipulate your decisions away from the "best" and ONLY true ending, this is no typical ending by any shot and they did this KNOWING that their fan base might not understand it and take what they showed us at face value. Those people will never get why their ending doesn't make sense and will be angry unnecessarily. For those like myself though. I feel like it's a twist worthy of the best games/movies out there and that some ambiguity is better than the spelled out epilogue slideshow at the end."

this was a very interesting read. I hope you are right, coz this is genious... Suddenly I got less..depressed,
However, it all depends on if BW makes another final ending, which takes place after the "last breath" scene. If they don´t, then we are royaly screwed either way.

Btw, a question; I chose the controll the reaper ending. So... I have to redo the scene to destroy the reaper instead, to actually be able to finish the game if there will be a DLC extended finale?  I mean, if you are right, my Sheps indoctrinated.

[taloris]

KHReborn wrote...

Some motivation: www.youtube.com/watch

Gonna have that stuck in my head now... at least it's fun.

Not sure if this is quite on topic, but I found it mildly amusing considering the uproar at the moment and had t share.

http://cdn2.gamefron...ces-matter1.jpg

Modifié par taloris, 15 mars 2012 - 01:01 .

[Ravax]

Apfelweinbrauer wrote...

Ravax wrote...

Look at the background image, and read the lyrics.. its just TOOOO similar to our god child / stargazer, etc.. soooo eerily similar its frigign weird.. and the video was uploaded 1 year ago!

That picture is a well known background for desktops, it's called "winter on mars".

and the lyrics??

[blunznsepp]

Kezza wrote...



I take it you don't know what blue meat is then right?
Its pretty much meat of heat source wait few seconds flip wait few more seconds...put on plate

nope really didnt know. thx a lot

[TheRealMithril]

Is there any particular reason why everyone misses the fact that the prothean VI actually TELLS you that you are indoctrinated?

[Xyalon]

malra wrote...

TheRealMithril wrote...

You already are told you are indoctrinated outright by the Prothean VI, when he mentions "indoctrinated presence detected" as you approach it. That is YOU not Leng who is behind you. This is later confirmed again after you have killed Leng, when the VI tells you that it's Indoctrination locks have been disabled, so now you can ask whatever you want. So there, no reason to look any further. The issue is I purchased a game with NO ending... that .. just... sucks..

I actually find this to be a the most credible point for an indoctrination theory.  It bothered me in the game also, and still bothers me now, in fact when I think about it I just get angry.

Well apart from the game's nasty habit of giving Shep an assault rifle when you don't have one equipped (seriously - who really thinks that it's polished when they didn't fix a problem that was rife in ME2?), the very end has you waking up after being hit by harbinger with a heavy pistol which a) was already in your hand and most likely different to what you had equipped, not in posession of any thermal clip whatsoever.

The whole thing stinks and is riddled with more holes than a tonne of Emmental. The only option really left is indoctrination theory.

[KHReborn]

TheRealMithril wrote...

Is there any particular reason why everyone misses the fact that the prothean VI actually TELLS you that you are indoctrinated?

Most of the peaople think its the space ninja. But you sir have a valid point there.

Modifié par KHReborn, 15 mars 2012 - 01:02 .

[karambiatos]

TheRealMithril wrote...

Is there any particular reason why everyone misses the fact that the prothean VI actually TELLS you that you are indoctrinated?

he doesnt, says indoctrination stuff when cerberus gets close to him

[die-yng]

PresidentCowboy wrote...

Yeah to that extent Shepard is almost a Hawke-level anti-hero. Sets out to save Earth and all galactic civilization... destroys galactic civilization, and even if Earth is still standing, it's very overpopulated and still in ruin with no way to get the supplies to rebuild.

Hawke took a stand against the templars (or mages) and this lead to what a lot of people felt neccessary, a direct confrontation between the mages and the templars.

And Hawke still saved Kirkwall, twice if you count th Qunary.

So at the moment I'd say Shepard does get away even worse than Hawke does.

[rizengrad]

TheRealMithril wrote...

Is there any particular reason why everyone misses the fact that the prothean VI actually TELLS you that you are indoctrinated?

No, the VI is perfectly okay with you until Kai Leng shows up.

[nyogen]

TheRealMithril wrote...

Is there any particular reason why everyone misses the fact that the prothean VI actually TELLS you that you are indoctrinated?

He does not, not in my copy of the game at least. He does so right before Kai Leng appears, either that or he has a sensor malfunction from asari ill treatments.

[Darth Taurus]

TheRealMithril wrote...

Is there any particular reason why everyone misses the fact that the prothean VI actually TELLS you that you are indoctrinated?

I didn't saw that the time I was playing.

This is a mind**** Bioware is doing to us.

[lord berwick]

Rightio, time to post in this thread.

Up to Monday night, I have been utterly enthralled by the Mass Effect series. I have been gaming for nearly 20 years (I'm nearly 30yo), and no other series has captured my imagination nor obsession like ME. I have played through ME1 and ME2 8 times each, devoured every piece of non-spoilerish news I could find, and somehow secured a Normandy lithograph. Needless to say, ME3 was my most anticipated game of all time.

From the time I could nab my CE copy of ME3 here in Australia, and in every moment that I could spare from working on my PhD, I was riveted to my spot while playing ME3. The combat was satisfying, the sound effects punchy, and the music divine. Even co-op was surprisingly fun and strangely addictive. Most of all, however, it was the story and the characters which made ME3 simply brilliant.

Propelled along the game by the glorious cinematics and excellent voice acting, the relationships and interactions between the various characters were exceptionally well crafted. From the noble sacrifice of Mordin, the heartbreak of Liara seeing her home world fall, to the rallying of the various fleets to converge on earth (and so many more), every moment felt like it had been well crafted and honed to the finest point possible.

That is, of course, until I reached the last 10 minutes of the game. The disconnection between the final scenes to the rest of the game is simply unbelievable. Why was my Shepard, the Soldier who had given TIM the bird, talked down the quarian fleet from committing suicide and forged peace between the combined races of the galaxy, now blithely accepting the words of the apparition that had been haunting his dreams? Why was the Normandy, now carrying the very squad mates who had been at his side on Earth, traveling FTL away from the battle? Finally, how did Shepard make it back to Earth amongst the rubble of London somehow alive? Where was my closure and catharsis? I was told there would be a bittersweet ending, but all I can taste is bitterness. I feel like I've been kicked in the quad.

Shocked and bewildered, I scrambled to find an answer here in the forums. Logically, I can only make two conclusions; either the Reapers had tried to indoctrinate Shepard, with DLC to be released to complete the story, or Bioware has botched the ending of the greatest game (and therefore, series) I've ever played.

As stated above, I've completed the previous games multiple times. Three days after finishing ME3, I feel no compulsion to start a NG+ on Insanity, play co-op, nor import my FemShep since I know how it all ends. I still feel sick in the gut.

I sincerely hope that Bioware addresses our concerns about this issue very soon.

To everyone else who feels the same way as I do, and to the people who started the Retake ME3 movement, thank you. I'm relieved that there are so many other people out there who feel like I do, and yet, the discourse has remained civil and polite. The way people are channelling their frustration through raising money for Child's Play is quite inspiring and makes me proud to be a gamer.

Hold the line!

[BigglesFlysAgain]

I think the reason I was so shocked by the endings was that I had played through the series as a uber paragon die on me and I will dig your corpse up and slap you back to life favorite negotiation tactic shouting loudly "look at yourselves" Shepard, and in the end I was unable to get an outcome that was in line with this.



Lol ^^^^^ with a much better post saying the same thing

Modifié par BigglesFlysAgain, 15 mars 2012 - 01:07 .