101103 réponses à ce sujet

[Denethar]

Nilofeliu wrote...

Just got back to the fight..

Any news on where we are standing??

/Salute

We are standing still, sadly.

[Xyalon]

kylecouch wrote...

TheRealMithril wrote...

Is there any particular reason why everyone misses the fact that the prothean VI actually TELLS you that you are indoctrinated?

Maybe becuase it's not mentioned until Leng shows up?

Just because it is Kai Leng doesn't mean that it can't be Shepard too.

[gotthammer]

Anyone try to do a playthrough w/ a Shep that is more 'appropriate' for the endings?
To amuse myself, while waiting for any resolution on this matter (or lack thereof...I'll probably 'wait'/keep tabs on info/changes 'til The Witcher 2's EE comes out, or some other shiny new game distracts me):
- I downloaded an ME2 save (and tweaked it a bit) which starts ME3:
- full renegade
- dead SR-2 crew
- all companions (except for Kasumi and Morinth) from ME2 dead
- dead council, rachni, etc. from ME1 ( I destroyed the collector base by tweaking the save, tho', as my 1st playthrough w/ my 'real' Shep kept it)

...should be interesting, esp. w/ a nihilistic-outlook type playthrough, esp. when considering the endings as they are

[Xyalon]

TheRealMithril wrote...

nyogen wrote...

TheRealMithril wrote...

rizengrad wrote...

TheRealMithril wrote...

Is there any particular reason why everyone misses the fact that the prothean VI actually TELLS you that you are indoctrinated?

No, the VI is perfectly okay with you until Kai Leng shows up.

The VI tells you twice, the second time Leng isn't even present.

The first time he does so he says "Reaper presence detected" and is referring to the Reapers already being present on Thessia hence the next cycle beginning, in the cinematics he raises and the picture pans towards the outside of the temple, the second time he's referring to Kai Leng.

No, what are thinking.. that the VI have planetary sensors? No, it detects that an indoctrinated precense is 'operating' with the VI. Anything else is out of the question. The 'second' time is in the TIM headquaters, when (before you get any answers) the VI informs that it's defenses are now disabled and that YOU are now allowed to ask questions.. It really can't get any more clear than that. 

Actually from Feros on ME1 we see that VIs are aware of their immediate surroundings because the VI tells the Krogan Merc that other people are waiting when you walk up the stairs.

[Marwolaeth]

Andreastornqvist wrote...

I want to share this once again!

"TIAX RULES ALL posted:

I am making this post in an honest attempt to help people understand and appreciate the endings more. I personally feel after reading posts here and hearing from friends that, most of this anger over the endings is caused because they did not see the over 4000 asset "destroy" option ending.

I hope to make a complete and easy explanation of the ending, comment if you think I need to adjust or add to it.
This post does not apply to those who just don't like it because of its lack of detailed epilogue.

First of all there is one ending that is the real ending and all other endings are tricks and illusions. In fact the only REAL ending in the whole game is if you pick the destroy option with over 4000 assets. The real ending is only that 20 seconds they show of Shepard in the rubble and then takes a breath.

That (supposed to be) eye opening moment is supposed to tell you that Shepard was never on the Citadel. He lies just where he was knocked out by the destroyer blast, in the rubble of London. This is where the confusion takes place.

Everything that happens after the destroyer hits Shepard during his charge is a combination of a dying Shepard's hallucinations and reaper indoctrination trying to take over. Right after the blast, Shepard wakes with his armor half blown off. This is not just cut scene fubar, this is the start of his indoctrination fight when everything is slightly off, as in a dream (because it is)

If you listen to the radio chatter before Shepard goes into the beam, you can hear allied forces saying that NOBODY made it to the beam, not you and not Anderson before you. This is the real world radio chatter now in the background subconscious of this hallucination.

After he reaches the Citadel there is more oddness that should be setting off triggers for the player that something is not right, that this is an illusion... Anderson describes shifting walls and only ever agrees with Shep on his surroundings after Shep describes his and saying "like the collector base you described". Everything is just a projection from Shepard's mind and subconscious.

When you are having the conversation with TIM and Anderson, It's all just again Sheps subconscious reminding himself and the player about indoctrination and what happens when you stop fighting it... you lose control (shoot Anderson) This is similar to the nightmares Shep has of the boy. This is the game through Shep's subconscious telling you do not follow the kid, you will burn (kid goes up in flames). And the last one when you see she with the kid and they both burn. Again telling you, no matter what happens you will get burned by trusting the kid.

There are more allusions to not trusting Cerberus/reapers throughout the game as well. You really start to see them after you understand the indoctrination ending. For example: TIM talking to Kai Lang says "Shepard was always going to stay true to his ideals" subtlety suggesting that the player should do the same and not let TIM/reapers compromise you destroying the reapers. The goal you have had since the very beginning. Also before the attack on Cerberus base I believe, there is a quantum comm. call between you and Hackett. You have the option of saying something like "what if TIM is right and the reapers CAN be controlled" and Hackett shoots you down. Gives you a direct order to kill TIM and destroy reapers. No questions asked. Once again, game trying to remind you of the one true goal and keep you focused.

Now about the Catalyst and the crucible conversation and decision itself... By this time indoctrination is very close to taking over. The end is near. The catalyst looks like the little boy because of shep's subconscious and indoctrination is feeding off that. Everything in this scene is A LIE. The choices and how they are presented to you are all part of the deception to get Shepard to give his mind into indoctrination and lose the will to fight it.

You are presented first with the destroy option. He says "I KNOW you have been thinking of destroying us but..." The catalyst is scared, knows that its only chance is to manipulate Shepard here and now. It's painted in renegade red to through you off. This is purposefully done to manipulate Shepard's decision to fight. He tells you all synthetic life will be wiped out, including Geth and including Shepard because he is partially cybernetic himself. In sales you always present the worst option first and the best for last. So the next 2 options can then be presented and made more appealable.

the other 2 options do not let you ever see Shepard "alive" at the end so to me BOTH of these options are fails and result in you being indoctrinated and/or dying right there on the streets of London. Without that last breath scene. There can be no happy ending. I will elaborate on them a bit more separately.

Synthesis was in the middle and last option presented, this is what they ultimately want. He even likened the synthesis to husks in his description. The reapers want to harvest organics and change them into hybrids. By choosing synthesis you would be doing their work for them in an instant. Basically I see this as total fail ending, you have been played.

Now the control option was not presented as prominently as the synthesis but was still painted in paragon blue and offered as an option still better then destroy. In the end the result for choosing this is the same behind the scenes. Shepard gave into indoctrination/death and you do not get the breath tidbit.

So if you choose destroy like I believe we are somewhat intended to, remember that the explosion cut scene and relays exploding and Normandy running/crashing ALL OF THAT IS STILL HALLUCINATION. This is Shepard's subconscious imagining a "happy ending" he imagines reapers destroyed, earth fighters celebrating, and he imagines and ending for companions. The lush new planet-scape is just a metaphor for starting over and them being at peace. That's why immediately after they show Shep waking up, to solidify the dream idea.

At that point you are supposed to start thinking about what really happened. Shepard is alive, on Earth, has conquered indoctrination. Another HUGE thing is that after destroying the reapers you were supposed to be dead. Recalling the little boy "you will die as you are partly synthetic". When you wake up after that in the rubble, it should be a clear indication that you have been lied to. You did not die like the boy said you would, he just said that to dissuade you. The rest is left even more ambiguous but...

I personally believe that Shepard's job ended there. His companions who followed him at the last rush are dead beside him not suddenly on the Normandy and suddenly in a new system living happily ever after. That only happens in dreams He gathered the forces needed to beat the reapers. And it's the allied forces of the galaxy that ultimately stop the reapers. And that force would never have been formed without Shepard. As the stargazer after the credits says "the details have been lost to history" and there is still "one more story" to tell. So even though Shep was never on the citadel, the idea that Shep is a legend and is credited in destroying the reapers is true.

Love it or hate it, I whole heartedly believe that we will see DLC in the future that will start with Shepard taking that breath in the rubble. It will be something like Waking up after beating indoctrination and actually concluding the story in a more definitive way. And possibly a lot more "happy" though I'm more interested in "real" then some contrived happiness.



TL;DR (oh come on read above, its good
2 parts, first everything that happens between Shepard getting hit by the destroyer eye blast during the London charge and the "take a breath" scene (that you only get by choosing correct choices and having high enough EMF) Is a hallucination/indoctrination process that Shepard is fighting in his head.


There is only one real ending, the ending you have been groomed for since the beginning. Destroy the reapers at all costs. All other endings that do not have Shepard alive at the end are lies. They are illusions and means that Shepard gave into indoctrination and never awoke back on earth to realize this. And the player doesn't understand.

All the supposed plot holes can be explained by this. See examples above. Ask me questions if you have them, I will try to clarify for you in comments.

Also if you would rather watch 3 minutes of youtube, this is a rather good but not totally complete ending explaination. I approve


FINAL NOTE
I love this ending because of what Bioware did. They actually indoctrinated their own customers. They made and ending where you the player play through a real-time indoctrination of not just your character but of the player. They presented the ending in such a way that you had to fight indoctrination right along with Shepard. The game actively tries to fool you and manipulate your decisions away from the "best" and ONLY true ending, this is no typical ending by any shot and they did this KNOWING that their fan base might not understand it and take what they showed us at face value. Those people will never get why their ending doesn't make sense and will be angry unnecessarily. For those like myself though. I feel like it's a twist worthy of the best games/movies out there and that some ambiguity is better than the spelled out epilogue slideshow at the end."

You know what?  I firmly hope that what you are saying is true.  If it is then all is forgiven Bioware as that would be genius.  I fear I may be wanting it to be true just a little too much however.  I personally cannot see any future DLC being purchased by myself (and i bought all available for the last two games) for ME3 as faced with the depressing endings presented to me I just think "what's the point?".  Knowing that Sheppard will just die in the end regardless doesn't exactly make me wish to add to his story since it will just be another confirmation of just how damn tragic his ending was. 

I shall admit that I never stuck to my guns and chose to destroy the reapers.  I figured that it was the bad thing to do since it was betraying the Geth and EDI.  I chose the control ending as it was the only one that did not destroy/adversely affect others and simply made the reapers go away, but now reading what you have put and realising that maxed out war assets was the only way to get this ending I have hope that maybe this rip off Deus EX/Matrix style ending is not true.  Heck if that was the case then i would gladly fork out on DLC until the cows come home as long as we get to pick ourselves up from the rubble, shake off the after effects of indoctrination and go kick Harbingers butt. 

[FOX216BC]

 "Whit that, i will inflict upon the ME fans the greatest insult the ME communtiy can suffer, to be ignored"

[OniRogue]

Xyalon wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

TheRealMithril wrote...

Is there any particular reason why everyone misses the fact that the prothean VI actually TELLS you that you are indoctrinated?

Maybe becuase it's not mentioned until Leng shows up?

Just because it is Kai Leng doesn't mean that it can't be Shepard too.

Well wasn't the VI about to start its self preservation the moment it recognized the indoctrinated presence? Why would it talk to us then in the first place?

[nyogen]

TheRealMithril wrote...

nyogen wrote...

TheRealMithril wrote...

rizengrad wrote...

TheRealMithril wrote...

Is there any particular reason why everyone misses the fact that the prothean VI actually TELLS you that you are indoctrinated?

No, the VI is perfectly okay with you until Kai Leng shows up.

The VI tells you twice, the second time Leng isn't even present.

The first time he does so he says "Reaper presence detected" and is referring to the Reapers already being present on Thessia hence the next cycle beginning, in the cinematics he raises and the picture pans towards the outside of the temple, the second time he's referring to Kai Leng.

No, what are thinking.. that the VI have planetary sensors? No, it detects that an indoctrinated precense is 'operating' with the VI. Anything else is out of the question. The 'second' time is in the TIM headquaters, when (before you get any answers) the VI informs that it's defenses are now disabled and that YOU are now allowed to ask questions.. It really can't get any more clear than that. 

He didn't need sensors, he just peeped outside , follow the cinematics 

[Xyalon]

gotthammer wrote...

Anyone try to do a playthrough w/ a Shep that is more 'appropriate' for the endings?
To amuse myself, while waiting for any resolution on this matter (or lack thereof...I'll probably 'wait'/keep tabs on info/changes 'til The Witcher 2's EE comes out, or some other shiny new game distracts me):
- I downloaded an ME2 save (and tweaked it a bit) which starts ME3:
- full renegade
- dead SR-2 crew
- all companions (except for Kasumi and Morinth) from ME2 dead
- dead council, rachni, etc. from ME1 ( I destroyed the collector base by tweaking the save, tho', as my 1st playthrough w/ my 'real' Shep kept it)

...should be interesting, esp. w/ a nihilistic-outlook type playthrough, esp. when considering the endings as they are

Out of curiosity did anyone play ME3 where morinth died on the collector base. If so, is the Banshee that appears after you destroy the Hades cannon just called "banshee" ?

[Nilofeliu]

gotthammer wrote...

Anyone try to do a playthrough w/ a Shep that is more 'appropriate' for the endings?
To amuse myself, while waiting for any resolution on this matter (or lack thereof...I'll probably 'wait'/keep tabs on info/changes 'til The Witcher 2's EE comes out, or some other shiny new game distracts me):
- I downloaded an ME2 save (and tweaked it a bit) which starts ME3:
- full renegade
- dead SR-2 crew
- all companions (except for Kasumi and Morinth) from ME2 dead
- dead council, rachni, etc. from ME1 ( I destroyed the collector base by tweaking the save, tho', as my 1st playthrough w/ my 'real' Shep kept it)

...should be interesting, esp. w/ a nihilistic-outlook type playthrough, esp. when considering the endings as they are

Man, you have to post the outcome in here when you get there... I was thinking about doing the same, but I just can't get myself to go back and play ME3 yet...

/cheers

[RebelByDesign]

kylecouch wrote...

TheRealMithril wrote...

Is there any particular reason why everyone misses the fact that the prothean VI actually TELLS you that you are indoctrinated?

Maybe becuase it's not mentioned until Leng shows up?

Isn't Leng already there? He killed the people you find with their throats slit.

[mulder1199]

ok great, this guy thinks there's only 1 ending where shep wakes up....you know what, still doesn't solve my issues....where's my crew...what happened to them? what happenend in the battle (cause that would have been awesome to see)

[Ezikio]

Ravax wrote...

MissNet wrote...

Ravax wrote...

Guys guys guys... (and ladies)

Someone pointed me in the direction of this video...



Look at the background image, and read the lyrics.. its just TOOOO similar to our god child / stargazer, etc.. soooo eerily similar its frigign weird.. and the video was uploaded 1 year ago!

f***ing ****. 
I call it plagiarism. 

"The dream nly ends when the world comes to end."
Guys, watch this video and read the words. It's something...

Bumping my own post cuz things are going so fast people might overlook this interesting info

Bumping the bump

[TheRealMithril]

You are forgetting that Prothean technology is based on touch. The very moment Shepard interfaces, his 'secret' is disclosed to he VI. Don't forget that Indoctrination is very hard to detect to begin with. For those of you who have the Prothean companion you get to see this first hand. And even he (actually) detects that you are a 'liar'. But he doesn't realize that you are in fact Indoctrinated.

[KHReborn]

FOX216BC wrote...



 "Whit that, i will inflict upon the ME fans the greatest insult the ME communtiy can suffer, to be ignored"

This!

Modifié par KHReborn, 15 mars 2012 - 01:31 .

[tompuddefoot]

lord berwick wrote...

Rightio, time to post in this thread.

Up to Monday night, I have been utterly enthralled by the Mass Effect series. I have been gaming for nearly 20 years (I'm nearly 30yo), and no other series has captured my imagination nor obsession like ME. I have played through ME1 and ME2 8 times each, devoured every piece of non-spoilerish news I could find, and somehow secured a Normandy lithograph. Needless to say, ME3 was my most anticipated game of all time.

From the time I could nab my CE copy of ME3 here in Australia, and in every moment that I could spare from working on my PhD, I was riveted to my spot while playing ME3. The combat was satisfying, the sound effects punchy, and the music divine. Even co-op was surprisingly fun and strangely addictive. Most of all, however, it was the story and the characters which made ME3 simply brilliant.

Propelled along the game by the glorious cinematics and excellent voice acting, the relationships and interactions between the various characters were exceptionally well crafted. From the noble sacrifice of Mordin, the heartbreak of Liara seeing her home world fall, to the rallying of the various fleets to converge on earth (and so many more), every moment felt like it had been well crafted and honed to the finest point possible.

That is, of course, until I reached the last 10 minutes of the game. The disconnection between the final scenes to the rest of the game is simply unbelievable. Why was my Shepard, the Soldier who had given TIM the bird, talked down the quarian fleet from committing suicide and forged peace between the combined races of the galaxy, now blithely accepting the words of the apparition that had been haunting his dreams? Why was the Normandy, now carrying the very squad mates who had been at his side on Earth, traveling FTL away from the battle? Finally, how did Shepard make it back to Earth amongst the rubble of London somehow alive? Where was my closure and catharsis? I was told there would be a bittersweet ending, but all I can taste is bitterness. I feel like I've been kicked in the quad.

Shocked and bewildered, I scrambled to find an answer here in the forums. Logically, I can only make two conclusions; either the Reapers had tried to indoctrinate Shepard, with DLC to be released to complete the story, or Bioware has botched the ending of the greatest game (and therefore, series) I've ever played.

As stated above, I've completed the previous games multiple times. Three days after finishing ME3, I feel no compulsion to start a NG+ on Insanity, play co-op, nor import my FemShep since I know how it all ends. I still feel sick in the gut.

I sincerely hope that Bioware addresses our concerns about this issue very soon.

To everyone else who feels the same way as I do, and to the people who started the Retake ME3 movement, thank you. I'm relieved that there are so many other people out there who feel like I do, and yet, the discourse has remained civil and polite. The way people are channelling their frustration through raising money for Child's Play is quite inspiring and makes me proud to be a gamer.

Hold the line!

Here here!! Ditto to exactly how I feel!!

[Xyalon]

OniRogue wrote...

Xyalon wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

TheRealMithril wrote...

Is there any particular reason why everyone misses the fact that the prothean VI actually TELLS you that you are indoctrinated?

Maybe becuase it's not mentioned until Leng shows up?

Just because it is Kai Leng doesn't mean that it can't be Shepard too.

Well wasn't the VI about to start its self preservation the moment it recognized the indoctrinated presence? Why would it talk to us then in the first place?

I have to concede to that. Of course your indoctrination could just be settling in and not immediately noticable. It's about as plausible as Green Sparkly Whizz rewriting DNA to make it partly synthetic....and atomic structure of metal to make it partly organic.

[Edbi]

Any news?(150+ pages for me)

[IxSITHxI]

nyogen wrote...

TheRealMithril wrote...

Is there any particular reason why everyone misses the fact that the prothean VI actually TELLS you that you are indoctrinated?

He does not, not in my copy of the game at least. He does so right before Kai Leng appears, either that or he has a sensor malfunction from asari ill treatments.

Shepard is talking with the VI on Thessia fine, and then it says indoctrination detected. Everyone turns and Kai Leng is walking up to them.

 

Skip to about 28 min. Shep has a 2-3 minute convesation with the VI just fine.

[Jomo7]

nyogen wrote...

TheRealMithril wrote...

nyogen wrote...

TheRealMithril wrote...

rizengrad wrote...

TheRealMithril wrote...

Is there any particular reason why everyone misses the fact that the prothean VI actually TELLS you that you are indoctrinated?

No, the VI is perfectly okay with you until Kai Leng shows up.

The VI tells you twice, the second time Leng isn't even present.

The first time he does so he says "Reaper presence detected" and is referring to the Reapers already being present on Thessia hence the next cycle beginning, in the cinematics he raises and the picture pans towards the outside of the temple, the second time he's referring to Kai Leng.

No, what are thinking.. that the VI have planetary sensors? No, it detects that an indoctrinated precense is 'operating' with the VI. Anything else is out of the question. The 'second' time is in the TIM headquaters, when (before you get any answers) the VI informs that it's defenses are now disabled and that YOU are now allowed to ask questions.. It really can't get any more clear than that. 

He didn't need sensors, he just peeped outside , follow the cinematics 

I can see where you're coming from with the second interaction, but it also doesn't directly say anything.  It states that it's defenses are down due to whatever tampering Cerberus and TIM did.  It could be an indication, but it's not a set in stone indication.

[blackeyes677]

Don't know if this has made it here yet.  Pulled it form /r/masseffect.  Gave me a few laughs. 

[halloween20]

lol...i got a terrible idea after searching for game that i can play now...

what IF they plan to bring me3 in chapters ?
we have only played one half of the whole game.


like it is with starcraft 2... first game only "chapter one" out of three...


:blink:

[Xyalon]

Bubi7 wrote...

Xyalon wrote...

Bubi7 wrote...
At least my favourite scene of ME1 (and the one that got me hooked into it) was real then:
When Manuel (Dr. Warren's assistant) gets annoying, and you choose "I can shut him up". No matter how Paragon I want to play, I just can't help and doing it again and again  (same for that reporter)

If you got the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC for ME2 then you see a Krogan also throws a punch to Ms Al-Jilaani's face too during an interview. I lolled so much.

I am a fan of Liara, I sure got the Shadow Broker DLC (alien sexy time ftw)

I preferred Tali to the Blue-arsed Bimbo (no offence). I was very hurt when Shep flashed back to her instead of Tali. Also Sheps interractions on LotSB with Liara, even after her admitting that she wanted Shep so didn't tell him about Tali in ME1, always imply that he wanted her rather than Tali. My Shep only went for Liara for the novelty anyway.

[nyogen]

TheRealMithril wrote...

You are forgetting that Prothean technology is based on touch. The very moment Shepard interfaces, his 'secret' is disclosed to he VI. Don't forget that Indoctrination is very hard to detect to begin with. For those of you who have the Prothean companion you get to see this first hand. And even he (actually) detects that you are a 'liar'. But he doesn't realize that you are in fact Indoctrinated.

If you want to convince yourself listen to the dialogue between the VI and Javik, provided you took him along with you, otherwise youtube, that should bring about some insight

[spacefiddle]

edit: bah. never mind. oh well.

Modifié par spacefiddle, 15 mars 2012 - 01:33 .