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[Necroscope]

Hey guys, just back home.

Something interesting going on in the last few hours?

[alberta]

Generic Name wrote...

alberta wrote...

There IS a fortune waiting here FOR BW - all they need do to earn that fortune is create our ending. THAT is a win/win FOR BW and FOR us! Surely adults within both EA and BW must be able to smell the opportunity to be tapped. That's just common sense.

Our money (they have). Our opinion (seems like they do not care). Future business (seems like they expect us to return ).

They do indeed - BUT maintaining good fans and great fan relations is something money can't buy. When its lost its lost forever. BTW, this has hurt ALL gaming not just BW. Few of us have even bothered to play any other game of any kind. The feelings are not there anymore.

[Hydralysk]

Aeyl wrote...

I read a comment about how Bioware was expected to give some sort of announcement about ME 3 at PAX on April 6.

Is this true?

Because as patient as I'd like to be...I don't want to wait a month to have this addressed.

The only thing I've seen them say is that they will discuss it with us when "more people have finished the game", the exact same kind of vague non-commital response we've been getting from twitter for the past 2 weeks.

Modifié par Hydralysk, 16 mars 2012 - 04:22 .

[Nyila]

alberta wrote...

Generic Name wrote...

alberta wrote...

There IS a fortune waiting here FOR BW - all they need do to earn that fortune is create our ending. THAT is a win/win FOR BW and FOR us! Surely adults within both EA and BW must be able to smell the opportunity to be tapped. That's just common sense.

Our money (they have). Our opinion (seems like they do not care). Future business (seems like they expect us to return ).

They do indeed - BUT maintaining good fans and great fan relations is something money can't buy. When its lost its lost forever. BTW, this has hurt ALL gaming not just BW. Few of us have even bothered to play any other game of any kind. The feelings are not there anymore.

I'm not sure about that. There are a lot of people out there that'll forgive them and move on if they fix the ending. For me, it's kinda hard to imagine any future game won't get the same treatment, and being disappointed over and over isn't something I'm looking forward to..

I was gonna buy Syndicate, it's an EA game, because of this, I won't..

[FOX216BC]

 another bad review
you can already guess why

http://thegoodthebad...ame-review.html

[ViperAlvein]

alberta wrote...

Generic Name wrote...

alberta wrote...

There IS a fortune waiting here FOR BW - all they need do to earn that fortune is create our ending. THAT is a win/win FOR BW and FOR us! Surely adults within both EA and BW must be able to smell the opportunity to be tapped. That's just common sense.

Our money (they have). Our opinion (seems like they do not care). Future business (seems like they expect us to return ).

They do indeed - BUT maintaining good fans and great fan relations is something money can't buy. When its lost its lost forever. BTW, this has hurt ALL gaming not just BW. Few of us have even bothered to play any other game of any kind. The feelings are not there anymore.

In short, they took away the illusion of hope that nearly all games cast

[LadyMarisa]

Oh I think most of us do. DA2 left a sour taste in my mouth but I thought "ME and ME2 were good, they're not the same team so at least I don't need to worry about ME3!". Then ME3 comes along and manages to destroy the replay value of an entire trilogy in 20 minutes.

Honestly, to me this is so vastly different from the DA2 situation. There were things I didn't like about DA2 and where your choices did or did not lead you to. I think the fact that my choices didn't have much impact bothered me less because I was playing an assigned role and replaying a historical story rather than something of my own creation. I actually enjoyed DA2 and replayed it a lot.

ME3 is completely different though and I'm not talking development teams. If ME3 had been presented in the fashion that this installment is not really a continuation of the story but more of you playing out an event that already happened, the lack of choice impact would have been easier to stomach. Like my comment response about the shooter being incorporated rather than stand alone game, I don't think there would have been quite as much backlash. Now I know with the way they set up the previous 2 games and the way they hyped the third, there's no way they could have done a DA2 style game and called it part of Shepards story.

That's just why I shy away from comparing this to the DA series. We knew we weren't playing a continuation of *our* story in that situation and people had trouble getting used to a completely different style of story in that setting.

[Wolfgang_Ocelot]

to all who want to discuss tali's face you can on my thread that I just made.
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10062941

Let's keep this about the ending.

[Cybermortis]

Hydralysk wrote...

Aeyl wrote...

I read a comment about how Bioware was expected to give some sort of announcement about ME 3 at PAX on April 6.

Is this true?

Because as patient as I'd like to be...I don't want to wait a month to have this addressed.

The only thing I've seen them say it that they will discuss it with us when "more people have finished the game", the exact same kind of vague non-commital response we've been getting from twitter for the past 2 weeks.

Which is also exactly what they said during the fallout for DA2, anyone remember how that went? Come on, you must remember how they ended up having to give away ME2 to anyone with a registered copy of DA2...Not a trick they can repeat this time around, partly because most of us already have ME2. But above all because next to no one has any desire to do back and play any of the ME games because of the ending of ME3.

[lodgik]

Matt_gekko88 wrote...

lodgik wrote...

Matt_gekko88 wrote...

Story-Question: what happens to Tali in ME3 if she was exiled?

It's really hard the get the quarian to cooperate with the geth. You have to respect really precise criteria to do this

Will Tali return in any way?

yes but like i sead she will not have the power of the admiral she was supposed to become

[Generic Name]

ViperAlvein wrote...
In short, they took away the illusion of hope that nearly all games cast

Winner!

I had plans on purchasing a number of games this year. Well those plans have gone out of the window because of the "ending" (abomination) to ME3. I do not even want to play Hearts. . .

[Elanor]

FOX216BC wrote...

 another bad review
you can already guess why

http://thegoodthebad...ame-review.html

Very accurate review.

[PsylenceRD]

Mr Chr15topher wrote...

bwFex wrote...

[snip]

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right.

This guy sums up everything that we feel about the endings.

Whoever wrote that, I'd give them a high five. Well said. I cut out all but the last two paragraphs because otherwise it's a huuuuuge quote there. Though an incredibly good read and exactly how I feel about it as well.

Hold the line.

[QwibQwib]

Lol, I feel sorry for myself... I've been refreshing this thread so many times the past few days.

[alberta]

This I will say this - and its not a threat - this is my money I worked 12 hours a day to make and I get to decide where I spend my bucks - I will NOT buy another BW/EA game until the Mass Effect 3 issue is resolved in our favor. That I can do! And already have!

[Sacred Of the Grey Wardens]

not sure if this has been posted yet or not.

SSV Midwest, Sacred reporting.

[Arathon]

QwibQwib wrote...

Lol, I feel sorry for myself... I've been refreshing this thread so many times the past few days.

You are not the only one so cheer up Well i suppose
only if you can after this "ending"...

[Kales Neochild]

I bet the ending is just a sequence in the game, they just cut off the rest ,except the Normand crash. I guess this was supposed to be the end.

Makes sense to me, this explains why my teammates were onboard,

[Generic Name]

Kales Neochild wrote...

I bet the ending is just a sequence in the game, they just cut off the rest ,except the Normand crash. I guess this was supposed to be the end.

Makes sense to me, this explains why my teammates were onboard,

The Final Hours of Mass Effect shows this was intended. The community has written them an out with the Indoc theory though.

[Nyila]

QwibQwib wrote...

Lol, I feel sorry for myself... I've been refreshing this thread so many times the past few days.

Same here..

alberta wrote...

This I will say this - and its not a threat - this is my money I worked 12 hours a day to make and I get to decide where I spend my bucks - I will NOT buy another BW/EA game until the Mass Effect 3 issue is resolved in our favor. That I can do! And already have!

Agreed. 

[M8DMAN]

Any news?

[LadyMarisa]

FOX216BC wrote...

 another bad review
you can already guess why

http://thegoodthebad...ame-review.html

I actually disagree with something in that article. I LOATHE the whole war assets mechanic. I would much rather have strip mined everything in sight and reduced everything not nailed down to omni gel if it meant getting an ending that fit what my Shep had been working towards. The whole WA thing enrages me honestly, it basically tells me rather than make my choices, I have to make pre determined choices to get the ending that fits me. Essentially throwing out what I love about RPGs. Even after completing everything I could (my second time even going by walkthrough sadly and NG+) I was still a couple of hundred points short of the min needed for the ending that best fit because of the choices I made earlier in the games. I made them because they seemed *right* in my heart. I should not have to min/max to get an enjoyable ending imo.

I'd probably hate the whole WA thing less if it didn't completely derail my choices.

[evisneffo]

Astralify wrote...

Cool quotes I found around the net:

>I WILL IGNORE YOU PERSONALLY

That one made me laugh out loud.

Modifié par evisneffo, 16 mars 2012 - 04:35 .

[Tairram]

Mr Chr15topher wrote...

bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right.

This guy sums up everything that we feel about the endings.

Agree!!! this guy show all we are feeling about this ending and this amazing franchise. Kill a game in 10 min because the ending. I cant believe  a history that always have point can be reduce to  a 10 min that kill all the amazing experience at me3. What i believe and hope was said by bwfex. Indocrination can elevate this game to the best history ever. Just need a little wisdom from bw XD

[alberta]

Heck - the far east crowd is very, very quiet on this matter. That doesn't sound good.