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[spacefiddle]

IxSITHxI wrote...

 www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/15/upset-mass-effect-fans-entitled-gamers-or-responsible-consumers/



Everyone on this forum is required to read this article and watch the video at the end. You dont have to watch the whole thing if you dont want to. Just skip to around 10:50, thats when the discussion of Mass Effect occurs.

This NEEDS to be reposted a lot as a reminder to HOLD THE LINE!

Amen.

As far as I can tell, it basically comes down to this: being a smart
consumer is more than just voting with your wallet. Half the time it’s
too late for that. It’s easy to say “Well, if you don’t like the
product, don’t buy it” but it doesn’t really work that way in practice.
Complicating matters further, many gamers upset by this game are
long-time BioWare fans. They want the game to be good. They want the
next BioWare title to be good. They wanted the last one to be good, too.
Maybe at some point a lot of people will stop buying these games, but
that’s hardly a win for anybody. Shouldn’t we be contemplating best-case
scenarios?
Complaining isn’t a bad thing, either. Voters do it all the time in
the realm of politics but an angry voter is considered “active” in
politics, not “entitled” to good government.
Isn’t it better to complain? Isn’t it better to try to make a change
than to simply give up? Isn’t it better for developers and consumers
alike to communicate this sort of thing rather than to just give up on
one another?

It's not us who are "entitled;" it's the publishers.  With almost any other product, if you don't like it, you return it and get your money back.  We can't do that with software.  It's the publishers and producers who are spoiled.  Let's see them make a returnable product for a while, then see if they're still as smug about the whole thing.

Modifié par spacefiddle, 16 mars 2012 - 05:30 .

[Nilofeliu]

TSC_1 wrote...

More from Tycho:

PA newspost

Good article... and a very good perspective

[TobiTobsen]

So... nothing new on the last 50 pages?

BioWare probably thinks that we will calm down over the weekend.

No, Sir! We will hold the line!

[FinalEndeavor]

SSV Endeavor reporting the line!

Any news?

[Sywen]

Nilofeliu wrote...

TSC_1 wrote...

More from Tycho:

PA newspost

Good article... and a very good perspective

I agree good perspective.  I'm kinda interested in where this goes.

[Cybermortis]

SSV Mortis disengaging for re-supply run. Units required for south western zone.

Will attempt to find additional, non-decafinated, beverages and clean underwear for fleet.

Hold the line people, hold the line...or you know stand there and make sure someone doesn't try and steal it if its getting heavy.

[Jason76]

KLGChaos wrote...

"Maybe you're right. Maybe we can't win this. But we'll fight you regardless, just like we did Sovereign. Just like I'm doing now. However "insignificant" we might be, we will fight, we will sacrifice and we will find a way. That's what humans do."

Sadly, it feels like in the end, Shepard's words were hollow. He just gave up. But we won't. We'll keep fighting and we will find a way.

Well, for what's it worth. *We* fight, for Shepard, for us, for our story and our choices. And *my* Shepard doesn't give up, but thinks ahead and through it.

[ARCTIC EAGLE]

+1 any news today?

[mulder1199]

LadyMarisa wrote...

mulder1199 wrote...

i will not buy your dlc
i will not but it, no not me
i won't have your dlc in my house
i will not purchase it with my mouse
your dlc is not worth squat
boy the end has people really hot....

See, I will. I have already admitted a sheep so I will totally pay for DLC if it gets me a better ending. I won't be buying DLC that doesn't affect the endings in some way, at least not until there is future DLC that does. If not well then I still love the ME story, but when I reply the games in the future, I simply won't finish the 3rd.

i'll buy it too, if the end is fixed....my ea/bioware/dark horse embargo will be lifted....

[LadyMarisa]

I've got to finish working on my DnD game for tonight so I'm out for now.

I'll come back with pretzels, clean underwear and caffeinated soap for all!

Hold the line!

[Goikiu]

Goikiu from Italian Fleet reporting in, any news ?

[ErMacPE]

Cybermortis wrote...

SSV Mortis disengaging for re-supply run. Units required for south western zone.

Will attempt to find additional, non-decafinated, beverages and clean underwear for fleet.

Hold the line people, hold the line...or you know stand there and make sure someone doesn't try and steal it if its getting heavy.

Aye aye Cap'n! *Salutes*

Errrmm, if it's not too much trouble though, is there any chance of some chocolate cookies in that run? Only, see the little krogans are getting tired, and they like their cookies and milk before bed time...

[wicked_being]

mulder1199 wrote...

wicked_being wrote...

alberta wrote...

Heck - the far east crowd is very, very quiet on this matter. That doesn't sound good.

They have their own forums. They'll voice their disapproval/ disappointment their own way. Though it'll be a great help if they com, I'll actually be surprised if they join us here.

it was posted this morning, their reaction has been much the same here....they have taken to calling the product 'rent effect' because it isn't worth buying....word has it they aren't really big on the endings....suprise suprise...

Yep we've been monitoring 2ch (it's hell tryin to translate). I just don't think they'll come here and register in BSN.

[spacefiddle]

Sywen wrote...

Nilofeliu wrote...

TSC_1 wrote...

More from Tycho:

PA newspost

Good article... and a very good perspective

I agree good perspective.  I'm kinda interested in where this goes.

yeah, other than my own crushing disappointment, I'm very interested as someone who follows the overall gaming industry to see how this plays out, and What It All Means.

Right now, it strikes me as the fault line between "gamers as fans" and "gamers as customers."  There's going to be a lot of rumbling and shaking and some stuff will fall down and get broken, and whatever happens next will set some important precedents.  Fallout 3 isn't enough; right now it's almost an outlier.  SWTOR is another one; Jedi Wizard became Jedi Sage.  And lo and behold, in both cases you got satisfied customers.

[IndustrializedTaco]

mulder1199 wrote...

LadyMarisa wrote...

mulder1199 wrote...

i will not buy your dlc
i will not but it, no not me
i won't have your dlc in my house
i will not purchase it with my mouse
your dlc is not worth squat
boy the end has people really hot....

See, I will. I have already admitted a sheep so I will totally pay for DLC if it gets me a better ending. I won't be buying DLC that doesn't affect the endings in some way, at least not until there is future DLC that does. If not well then I still love the ME story, but when I reply the games in the future, I simply won't finish the 3rd.

i'll buy it too, if the end is fixed....my ea/bioware/dark horse embargo will be lifted....

Unfortunatly I will bend over backwards as well. If they fix it, then sell it I'm buying.

[TSC_1]

Nilofeliu wrote...

TSC_1 wrote...

More from Tycho:

PA newspost

Good article... and a very good perspective

Quite. Tycho is a very smart guy.

[Stygian1]

Anyone think the media has shifted more to our side than BioWare's? Or are just the credible, less boarish and dogmatic journalists the ones writing from our perspective?

[vigna]

I just came up this rebuttal arguement that i think works well--although there have been other varying examples of this same one..enjoy!

There is also a big difference between a collaberative effort and an individual effort. I would be less apt to ask for change if it was the creation of one person, but this is the creation of an entire team. Neon Genesis Evangelion did it, Marvel and DC comics do it all the time, etc. I think the infallibility of the artist is a bit of a stretch.

Example:
If I paint a painting and it looks wonderful, and everyone thinks upon first impression that it loooks great, but then some people look a little more closely and figure out my light source is coming from the right, but I messed up and put all my shadows on the right. You know what--that ruins what would be an otherwise nice painting for the people that discovered it. Those people can appreciate the brushstrokes, the colors, detail, technique--none of it matters, because the error with the shadows sticks in their minds. Other people may be more forgiving of it, but others not so much.
As an individual painter I could leave it alone or i could fix it--it may only take some tweaks, but it could take some doing and repair. That would be my choice as a painter, but it doesn't fix that the error is there.
If you are a critical writer, an editor, or a writer the ending immediately sticks in your head as if you were an art editor or teacher looking at the flawed painting in the example. Some can appreciate all the effort and the other beautiful things, but for many others it is flat out impossible once the flaw has been discovered.

Even if you think "it's just a game" you are right for yourself alone, and others who may be more invested in a creator's work may also take this more harshly, or find it more jarring and out of place. Being excellent matters, being correct matters--if you are doing a math problem, and somewhere along the equation make an error and mess up the end--it doesn't change the fact that the end is wrong. No matter if all the rest along the way was mostly right.

Not the perfect example, but I think it fits...Especially if you are usuing the artistic integrity argument.

Modifié par vigna, 16 mars 2012 - 05:35 .

[mulder1199]

Dudemanley wrote...

mulder1199 wrote...

i will not buy your dlc
i will not but it, no not me
i won't have your dlc in my house
i will not purchase it with my mouse
your dlc is not worth squat
boy the end has people really hot....

So bad it's good.

(no offense)

none taken, i posted this in the , what will you do if dlc doesn't fix the end thread, i jsut thought i'd share.....said as if one was reading dr. seuss...

[mulder1199]

Stygian1 wrote...

Anyone think the media has shifted more to our side than BioWare's? Or are just the credible, less boarish and dogmatic journalists the ones writing from our perspective?

they have.....which is one of the reasons we must be factual, fair and firm in our line holding....

[Annaleah]

Vermont reporting in after having slept in all afternoon. I see laundry needs doing. I'll be happy to oblige.

[Zulmoka531]

mulder1199 wrote...

Stygian1 wrote...

Anyone think the media has shifted more to our side than BioWare's? Or are just the credible, less boarish and dogmatic journalists the ones writing from our perspective?

they have.....which is one of the reasons we must be factual, fair and firm in our line holding....

Or rather they are starting to. I see less and less bashing, and more and more rationalizing with perhaps a 50/50 or pro "change the ending" stance.

[BigglesFlysAgain]

KLGChaos wrote...

Nilofeliu wrote...

Bruinbear wrote...

Anyone read the Inheritance Cycle by Christopher Paolini? The ending of ME3 reminds me of that seriries. No reasonable resolution to the LI. No reason to go away forever. Just forced and rushed. Could be just me...

I was thinking the very same thing. I know for a fact that Paolini's writing style is poor compared to other artists of our time, but at least the story was interesting...

However, the ending was a massive failure as well. I only read the last book once, and I was WTF?? Never touched it again. But now that you mentioned it, maybe Bioware writers decided to follow the same line of ending.... who knows?

Never got around to finishing that series and now I don't think I ever will. I'll stick with Jim Butcher and Harry Dresden. Love those books.

I just had a thought about how widespread this is starting to become. Maybe the whole issue will get parodied on South Park... Or better yet, Futurama. That show would be perfect for it. I could just picture the Professor: "Good news, everyone! Space Magic!:wizard:"

South Park would be good, futurama is too much to hope for, given that they have a lead time of nearly a year per episode, so the issue could be resolved or forgotten by then.