101103 réponses à ce sujet

[rizengrad]

AshleyMadelineWilliams wrote...

Dudemanley wrote...

AshleyMadelineWilliams wrote...

rizengrad wrote...

AshleyMadelineWilliams wrote...

Jago360 wrote...

Matt_gekko88 wrote...

Well at least they did a bit fanservice...

OHHHH LOOOK! A botle on the left side! Nobody notice, eh?

Im more worried about the dress.... i can see places i never thought existed....

There's a realm of dark space underneath Shepard's dress apparently. Wonder if there are any Reapers hiding in there?

 My perception on the mass effect 3 ending has changed entirely............................................. OMG:bandit:

You trying to tell me we could've beat the Reapers with a heavy amount of crotch shampoo?

Ill get the crotch shampoo <_<... damn bioware and there "imagination and own interpretation" of personal endings. I cant seem to get the image out of my head. Thanks guys ....

[Nilofeliu]

spacefiddle wrote...

IxSITHxI wrote...

 www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/15/upset-mass-effect-fans-entitled-gamers-or-responsible-consumers/



Everyone on this forum is required to read this article and watch the video at the end. You dont have to watch the whole thing if you dont want to. Just skip to around 10:50, thats when the discussion of Mass Effect occurs.

This NEEDS to be reposted a lot as a reminder to HOLD THE LINE!

Amen.

As far as I can tell, it basically comes down to this: being a smart
consumer is more than just voting with your wallet. Half the time it’s
too late for that. It’s easy to say “Well, if you don’t like the
product, don’t buy it” but it doesn’t really work that way in practice.
Complicating matters further, many gamers upset by this game are
long-time BioWare fans. They want the game to be good. They want the
next BioWare title to be good. They wanted the last one to be good, too.
Maybe at some point a lot of people will stop buying these games, but
that’s hardly a win for anybody. Shouldn’t we be contemplating best-case
scenarios?
Complaining isn’t a bad thing, either. Voters do it all the time in
the realm of politics but an angry voter is considered “active” in
politics, not “entitled” to good government.
Isn’t it better to complain? Isn’t it better to try to make a change
than to simply give up? Isn’t it better for developers and consumers
alike to communicate this sort of thing rather than to just give up on
one another?

It's not us who are "entitled;" it's the publishers.  With almost any other product, if you don't like it, you return it and get your money back.  We can't do that with software.  It's the publishers and producers who are spoiled.  Let's see them make a returnable product for a while, then see if they're still as smug about the whole thing.

The problem regarding those quotes is the assumption of player and company sharing the same goals. That is where it fails...

As a consumer I want the best possible product I can get with whatever budget I have at a given moment. As a company/publisher/producer/etc I want to offer a product spending as little as possible and getting a reward as great as possible. Those are opposite behaviors, and antagonic in their very essence..

I understand there are times when a consumar will spend the extra dollar to get a better product, but that's still a moneywise decision, weighting quality on one side over price on the other. The same applies to the companies that sometimes come up with creative writing, new game engines, innovations widely speaking, that even though cost more than the development of an "average" product, it still profitable moneywise because they can charge more for it. Now it's them weighting production cost vs cash in flow due to sales.

However most of the times, these companies do not come up with innovations, they will just take what they "know" is profitable and render is with a new face and call it the next breakthrough of that given industry. And the worst of the worse is that people will buy into that. If you don't believe me, just take a look at the ratings given to ME3, and take a look at how many of us bought the game before release or on release.

This was a fairly solid and well stablished franchised with a huge cosumer base. So instead of thinking that the best answer to the fan loyalty was to create the best product ever (given the real life limitations of course) they came up with a cheap product that was not given the necessary time to be neither finished nor polished (plot holes for instance). They came up with a multiplayer system in a single player game and called it innovation. They changed the inventory systems and said it was new, not to mention another thousand little things (resource gathering for instance). And we believed it, we bought the game, and now we are paying for our own naivety.

Whenever buying a product (games or not) the first thing we must have in mind is that the companies first loyalty is not to their customers, but to their share holders. We are the ones who give them money, through income by sales, however we are not the ones who vote for the new CEO, or who decided to invest more money on a project or another. We are just in the bitter end of the line, where we pay for everything, but we have no rights to decide anything. In most cases this is just irrelevant, for if you are going to buy a car, a tv, a PC, or most of the day to day products, you have the chance to try it out before you make your final call. Even in the case of art ( most of it anyway) you can just look at it, feel it and see how it affects you before buying it. That is what expositions and galleries are for.

Unfortunatelly the same assumption does not apply to fiction works of art such as TV shows, movies, novels or in our case, video games (PC and console). We have to play it, watch it or read it, before we know how that piece will affect us. But this shouldn't be such a great deal, I mean, if I start reading a book and I don't like it, I will just stop reading. Or if there is this show and I hate how the characters behave in it, I will just change the channel. The same applies to movies since the worst it could happen is to waste a couple of hours of my life.

On the other hand it does not apply to games, especially those who became canon to gamers around the world. Also another point that must be made clear is how a continuing saga differs from a single complete game experience. Let's speak of a few classic in the gaming history. First and foremost Baldur's Gate; let's assume I played the first game and I loved it (which I did), so the BG II comes out and I can buy it and play it. Despite the existence on BG II, my gaming experience in Baldur's gate I was complete and fulfilling, it was joyful. So whether or not I enjoyed the second game It doesn't matter because the satisfaction and closure of the first game is not dependant on the second. The same applies to KOTOR (knights of the Old Republic) which was a wonderful game and very joyful to play. The second game of the franchise not so much, but the good thing is, the second game didn't affect the first in the least. So, even if I hated the Kotor 2, I can still go back and have my satisfaction from playing Kotor I. This assumption is also valid for another very well known franchise called Dragon Age. Origins was beautiful, varied, colorful and well written. DA 2 was railed to this specific story that didn't grant me the freedom I had on the first game, however, had not being for the first game, it would have been an average/good game on its own. It was disappointing mostly because  Origins totally eclipsed it.

Now, regarding the theme of continuing sagas on the gaming industry, we don't have many examples (if we even do have one). Diablo could be called such a thing, since it leaves a few loose ends to be taken care of on new titles or expansions of the original game. But even with these few lose ends, it still wraps up the story nicely and sets forth a base from where we can move on to the next story. Mass Effect didn't.

Since day one Mass Effect was meant to be a game where the player wrote his own story and that was true innovation, never before done in such levels. Mass Effect 2 picked up where 1 left out and did a good job on keeping that spirit alive, even if the RPG element was not as present as in the first, and some more action driven elements were included, but overall, a wonderful game. However, despite the success those games had, and how well they managed to create a foundation where the saga could have its Epic ending, they didn't offer the ending themselves. They offered us perspective, and hope, and a brilliant and rich story that kept on calling us to join them. And joined them we did...

Now  when the last chapter of the franchise was released, the chapter that would give us closure, that would in some terms set us free became available, we thought that it was it. We would finally see how all our choices, all our time spent fighting, reading, walking around, talking to people, paid off. And so we began to play. Some of us (me included)played for over 35+ hours non stop, so we could see our ending as soon as possible. We forsook sleep, food, social life, only to play the game that had for so long been a part of our lives. And even though the game had some technical flaws, a poorer RPG system and a few plot holes, we moved on, we held the line, we loved it simply because it would give us the closure we had been expecting for 5 years...

But there was no closure. There was only "artistic license" in the end, where Bioware/EA forced down on us their view of how things were supposed to end. So terrible was their view that it began a cascading effect that spreaded as far as the original game of the trilogy. It destroyed all the games replay value because the ending of all the trilogy was meant to be given at the last game, and it wasn't. Unlike other games that continued to new titles, but had closures on and in itself, the Mass Effect series saved all the closing elements for the last title, and when the time came, they simply forgot to deliver.

For whatever reason they did it; deadline - lack of funds, different writers, whatever - they managed to destroy what was up to that point the greatest sci-fi franchise in gaming history. And I tell you that, it requires really strong Space Magic to do that in 5 minutes.

But as I explained before, Bioware is not a player, is not a gamer, and owns us no real loyalty other than delivering us their products, wheter we like them or not. The company's loyalty is to the shareholders (which we are not) and their main focus is on profitability. As Forbes said in one of its article, business wise it would make sense to "give" us a new ending, therefore correcting their mistake, because it would restore some of the customer's trust on the company, and trust is always good for business. But this is in the long run. In the short run it doesn't matter because they have already sold their game to us, we already paid for it, and they cashed in. Why would they spend another dime in a product they already got paid for? The answer is they most likely won't, because it would be bad for business in the shortrun. And it is also bad for business to public admit they made a mistake. It would affect the company's revenue sheet, and would scare shareholders way from it, since those want to make money, not spend it. And what about the long run? the answer is "they don't care". They don't care because if the company starts going down, the holders can just sell their shares and move to a more profitable company. The CEOs already got paid fortunes, and are rich enough not to be bothered with such petty requests from us, players.

All they want is for us to silently return to our lives, to forget this ever happend. They already have new titles on the way, and they have been trying to convince us that they are listening, that they care, when in fact, the don't.

So, I call upon you my friends  (even though I never met you), my comrades, my brothers and sisters, I call upon you to not give into temptation. Do not allow their empty words to change our hearts, and do not allow their hollow promises to shatter our resolve. Now, more than ever before in the gaming history we must stand together as one. We must search for what it rightfully ours, our rights as paying customers, our dignity as men (and women) and our freedom to speak the truth whitout fear of prosecution in this matter.

I may be wrong, and if I am, it is very easilly to prove. All it requires is to the Bioware/EA team to make a public annoucement, a public apology, even if they do not mean to correct their mistake about the ending. But for us to acknowledge them they must first acknowledge us, because we are not going way...

WE ARE LEGION, FOR WE ARE MANY!

Now, get back and hold the danm Line!!!!

/Salute
/Nilo Feliu out.

[Iam2ugly]

iakus wrote...

Adam-Sadface wrote...

 Just thought I'd re-iterate one of the many reasons we must hold the line:

 "I honestly think the player base is going to be really happy with the way we've done it. You had a part in it. Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."Whether you're happy or angry at the ending, know this: it is an ending. BioWare will not do a "Lost" and leave fans with more questions than answers after finishing the game, Gamble promised."You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people."

http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry

Oh, no they don't!  They are not pinning the blame for this ending on me!  

hmmm... So whitch is it? here we are promised(pre game launch) we'll get answears to everything, then we hear we don't. Because you wanted to add some *mystery* to the ending(past launch)? 

[WarBaby2]

AshleyMadelineWilliams wrote...

Ill get the crotch shampoo <_<... damn bioware and there "imagination and own interpretation" of personal endings. I cant seem to get the image out of my head. Thanks guys ....

Well, so much for laziness... they couln't even do as much as use a "cross legs" animation in that scene.^^

Why oh why are BW games so modder unfriendly...

[Akael_Bayn]

Nilofeliu wrote...

So, I call upon you my friends  (even though I never met you), my comrades, my brothers and sisters, I call upon you to not give into temptation. Do not allow their empty words to change our hearts, and do not allow their hollow promises to shatter our resolve.

+1

[Uezurii]

Geinen wrote...

WarBaby2 wrote...
Funny... all the media that is against us, lean heavily on the "artistic integrity" nonsene... weak.

I like to point out that artists who cannot sell their work are quickly known as starving artists.  lol

This is the problem with artistic integrity as a defense for ME3:

Artist: Hey! I'm painting this masterpiece of a spaceship in battle.  But you can't see the final product until you buy it! I promise it will be amazing, though.  You can see the quality of my work in the past.

Consumer: Hmm alright then. *gives money*

Artist:  Here ya go!  *hands over painting*

Consumer: Its a painting of a horse.  On a unicyle.

Artist: Its a flying unicycle, though.

Consumer: I don't get it?  Where's the spaceship you promised?

Artist:  It's ART.  Use your imagination!!

This is so true.

[Al-Qiliqi]

Hydralysk wrote...

Dudemanley wrote...

I have a random question, jumping through a relay makes you move faster than light yes? How did they smack into that planet without being decimated?

Clearly you're supposed to come up with that explanation on your own, speculation is waht you want from a game right?

Jessica Merizan told on twitter that they never did use the relay, they were fleeing at FTL. And she also said, that the explosions of the mass relays aren't like those when they're hit by an asteroid.

Ending still sucks.

Hold the line!

[Ameno Xiel]

My reaction if Bioware releases a new ending DLC(Update, Addon, whatever...) :

www.youtube.com/watch 

[Apfelweinbrauer]

RED ALERT!!!!

Some guy just snapped and filed an official complaint against EA, please help me to talk him out of that!

http://social.biowar...5503/5#10068340

[Dudemanley]

Here's the situation in Asia after they beat the game

[Annaleah]

I'm heading down to do laundry so anyone who needs something washed speak up now lest ye be cursed with eternally dirty underwear.

[Sacred Of the Grey Wardens]

iakus wrote...

Adam-Sadface wrote...

 Just thought I'd re-iterate one of the many reasons we must hold the line:

 "I honestly think the player base is going to be really happy with the way we've done it. You had a part in it. Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."Whether you're happy or angry at the ending, know this: it is an ending. BioWare will not do a "Lost" and leave fans with more questions than answers after finishing the game, Gamble promised."You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people."

http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry

Oh, no they don't!  They are not pinning the blame for this ending on me!  

"BioWare will not do a "Lost" and leave fans with more questions than answers after finishing the game"

ummmm.....isn't this exactly what they did???? Even down to the Normandy crashing in some jungle area.

[Generic Name]

Ameno Xiel wrote...

My reaction if Bioware releases a new ending DLC(Update, Addon, whatever...) :

www.youtube.com/watch 

Agreed. Some air punches as well.

[Boceephus]

Don't mind me. Just wanted to help hold the line.

As you were soldiers.

[Nilofeliu]

Iam2ugly wrote...

iakus wrote...

Adam-Sadface wrote...

 Just thought I'd re-iterate one of the many reasons we must hold the line:

 "I honestly think the player base is going to be really happy with the way we've done it. You had a part in it. Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."Whether you're happy or angry at the ending, know this: it is an ending. BioWare will not do a "Lost" and leave fans with more questions than answers after finishing the game, Gamble promised."You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people."

http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry

Oh, no they don't!  They are not pinning the blame for this ending on me!  

hmmm... So whitch is it? here we are promised(pre game launch) we'll get answears to everything, then we hear we don't. Because you wanted to add some *mystery* to the ending(past launch)? 

The problem is that they got LOST in their own storyline, so one of the writer's came up and said "hey, why don't we create a twist to make them as LOST as we are?" - Problem is, the same had been done in LOST before...

Boceephus wrote...

Don't mind me. Just wanted to help hold the line.

As you were soldiers.

Not happening. I won't ever again be as I was before....

Just sad...

Modifié par Nilofeliu, 16 mars 2012 - 06:19 .

[mulder1199]

Al-Qiliqi wrote...

Hydralysk wrote...

Dudemanley wrote...

I have a random question, jumping through a relay makes you move faster than light yes? How did they smack into that planet without being decimated?

Clearly you're supposed to come up with that explanation on your own, speculation is waht you want from a game right?

Jessica Merizan told on twitter that they never did use the relay, they were fleeing at FTL. And she also said, that the explosions of the mass relays aren't like those when they're hit by an asteroid.

Ending still sucks.

Hold the line!

did she use vulcan logic to explain the new teleportation device in the normandy?

[Annaleah]

AshleyMadelineWilliams wrote...

Annaleah wrote...

I'm heading down to do laundry so anyone who needs something washed speak up now lest ye be cursed with eternally dirty underwear.

Do You do pink spotty socks? 

I do a red load, a green load, and a blue load. Your socks can go in the red load.

[Atraiyu Wrynn]

So I went overboard and wrote a detailed post of why the Reaper's motives don't hold up to logical scrutiny. Tell me what you think.

http://social.biowar...067534#10067534

Modifié par Atraiyu Wrynn, 16 mars 2012 - 06:20 .

[Darth Garrus]

alberta wrote...

Come on folks - this is far more bitter FOR BW than any of them could have ever imagined. ME3 turned out to be an utter disaster world wide - that has to very, very bitter for them. It is no wonder why they kep hoping things would get better first as Europe released which turned out to be the same reaction as North and South America. Their last hope for redemption rested on the far East which is also turning into an utter disaster for BW - and now those results are beginning to show the exact same reaction as those of us here on this thread and others.

This is a BETTER, BITTER blow for BW and its more than understandable for them to be so silent as they have - it is far worst than any of them could ever have imagine.

It´s time for making amends, right? I really hope they are thinking in a way of doing it. It became very obvious that a patch is needed. A big one.

Hope they don´t get condescendent with the fans, and don´t stick to the "art" stupid theory.

The fans are ready to embrace an apology and amends in the form of a patch. They just have to figure what is the best way to do that. But pride can't get in the way. It goes before the fall...

[Apfelweinbrauer]

Am I invisible??? HELP!

[avmf8]

Look even fans can make a better ending then bioware.



Still not the best but they used all bioware gave them and its still better than the ending we all got.

Modifié par avmf8, 16 mars 2012 - 06:20 .

[mulder1199]

Annaleah wrote...

AshleyMadelineWilliams wrote...

Annaleah wrote...

I'm heading down to do laundry so anyone who needs something washed speak up now lest ye be cursed with eternally dirty underwear.

Do You do pink spotty socks? 

I do a red load, a green load, and a blue load. Your socks can go in the red load.

save yourself sometime, if you do a red, blue and green load, throw em in together.....if it's a bioware brand washer they'll all come out the same, no matter what detergent choices you make....