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So we can't get the ending we want after all?


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#38101
Shoulin

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Conspicuous Cake wrote...

Aeyl wrote...

The depressing thing about this is that I've wanted to do the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC, but I just don't feel any passion towards playing the games after this ending, nor do I want to pay for something that will be, as of now, completely worthless in the end.


Yeah.
I was planning on playing with my other Shepard.
But now I just don't want to.
That's why we have to keep at this!
To make sure something is done, and that our will to play gets right back to us!
Keep on holding the line!


I am going on Renegade playthrough of ME2 and ME3 since I don't care much about ME1's combat.  The main thing keeping me is the fact that all of ME3 is just downright phenomenal aside from the ending.  I can just imagine an alternate ending that was written up by someone else at that point.  Not gonna let the ending get me down from playing it anymore.

Besidies, being able to push Liara's romance from Shadow Broker and ME3 makes up for it in a way, even if I know she will have to lose me again :crying:

Oh god this is gonna be painful....  Hold the line!

#38102
CirusTheVirus666

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unclee wrote...

Usual reminder: Make sure to stay civil and respectful. Let's keep the Bioware bashing to a minimum. Everyone's doing a great job so let's continue on through the weekend.


This! Let's keep it civil people, we have a long road ahead of us, but in the end, it will be worth it! Hold the Line!

#38103
RussianOrc

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Image IPB
this^

#38104
SJK93

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Wraith 02 wrote...

Ah a week later and i'm still refusing to drop this, When will Bioware get the message


They say that they're listening. I can say with great certainty that they know about the movement and what we want. It might just take a little while for them to put out an official response. Hang in there.

#38105
Hydralysk

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Ruari wrote...

xHezz90 wrote...

Ruari wrote...

Sethatron wrote...

I'm starting to think "space magic" is code for a middle finger. The next DLC will also reveal that it was all just a dream.


Is it sad that this is kind of what we're hoping for? As in the whole indoctrination theory gets tacked on as what happened, you wake up in front of the beam and continue to do the real ending. Or in video game terms: Bioware got a GAME OVER, but it's ok cause they had another guy so they get to try again.


One thing that annoys me about the indoctrination theory though is, it only makes sense to the Destroy - half breath ending, but unless you play multiplayer your Shepard will just die.


I'm not really in 100% support of it. I'd be happy if it was just a dream. Like cut out the whole starkid B.S., and instead of being lifted up to him, Shepard wakes up when he stumbles forward. Like how one would in a dream? I dunno...I'm grasping at emergency induction ports just for some kind of hope.

I just had a crazy idea. So if Bioware just killed the Mass Effect universe, can we pull a Project Lazarus? QUICK! Someone call Martin Sheen and get Cerberus on the line.


Martin Sheen has unfortunately just pulled a Saren.

#38106
Aeyl

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Conspicuous Cake wrote...

Aeyl wrote...

The depressing thing about this is that I've wanted to do the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC, but I just don't feel any passion towards playing the games after this ending, nor do I want to pay for something that will be, as of now, completely worthless in the end.


Yeah.
I was planning on playing with my other Shepard.
But now I just don't want to.
That's why we have to keep at this!
To make sure something is done, and that our will to play gets right back to us!
Keep on holding the line!


Yup
Well, let's see if Bioware responds soon. Maybe next week? Hopefully :innocent:

#38107
laughing sherpa girl

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segurissima wrote...

http://www.ibtimes.c...-review-dlc.htm

I repost this now as pages move fast. Do you think there is a possibility they really fix the ending through the movie? How this will be my story, then?


At this point, i am loathe to post what i think. not because it is out of line, but because my negativity is so great. No, i do not think it was ever our story any more, and no, they are not interested in resolving customer issues.

#38108
baronkohinar

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So, yeah, "Fight the Good Fight " by Triumph came on the radio tonight and I found the lyrics quite fitting for our situation. So I thought I'd share them here with everyone:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The days grow shorter and the nights are getting long
Feels like we're running out of time
Every day it seems much harder tellin' right from wrong
You got to read between the lines

Don't get discouraged, don't be afraid, we can
Make it through another day
Make it worth the price we pay

The Good Book says it's better to give than to receive
I do my best to do my part
Nothin' in my pockets I got nothin' up my sleeve
I keep my magic in my heart

Keep up your spirit, keep up your faith, baby
I am counting on you
You know what you've got to do

CHORUS:
Fight the good fight every moment
Every minute every day
Fight the good fight every moment
It's your only way

All your life you've been waiting for your chance
Where you'll fit into the plan
But you're the master of your own destiny
So give and take the best that you can

You think a little more money will buy your soul some rest
You'd better think of something else instead
You're so afraid of being honest with yourself
You'd better take a look inside your head

Nothing is easy, nothing good is free
But I can tell you where to start
Take a look inside your heart
There's an answer in your heart

CHORUS
----------------------------------------------------------------------

So what do you think? Have we found our official anthem?

#38109
leonardo87

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Bubi7 wrote...

volkanhto wrote...
I loved the ending. Talking with Anderson for the last time was awesome. Don't know what starchild you guys are talking about i didn't see anything like that.
...Anyways hold the line people hold the line!

that reaper VI at the end, which looks like the child shepard saw at the beginning. The child entered a shuttle and got shot down. Shepard also had several dreams about that kid



Also:
http://www.machiavel...t-3-the-ending/


He is in the denial stage, it's better to think that "thing" never happened.

#38110
talk_sick

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An alarming thing just occured to me. We are not simply holding the line for Mass Effect. We are all that stands between now and the destruction of the entire video game industry.

What BW did with the ending (essentially telling us to go F*** ourselves and just "imagine" the rest) is a travesty that may undo everything video games have acomplished since Mario. It may lead developers to believe that they can just leave a cryptic FU note in place of the ending, and pass it off as "artistic vision", and none will be the wiser.

Don't like it, don't buy it, oh - you already bought it? Too bad for you...

#38111
ollec92

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After finishing Mass effect 3 i felt empty... I felt as if a void of nothingness had consumed me. "What kind of ending is this?!" Right up until the end I viewed it as one oft the three greatest games of all time. However, my opinion was then corrupted by wahat I thought were poor writing...
It has taken a few days of contemplation and the aid of a certain video to turn that opinion around. It is not untill you realize what might realy be going on that you appreciate the current ending. I'm certain you can find this somewhere else on this website, but i belive that everyone who is the least intrested in the ending to Mass effect 3 should watch this exceptionally well made video.


#38112
christrek1982

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dono if this has been posted or if it was someone on this thred that found it but it is worth a read gave me some hope and it looks like they are on stage 2-3.

http://social.biowar...10084349-1.html

#38113
segurissima

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andy310 wrote...

Hydralysk wrote...

segurissima wrote...

http://www.ibtimes.c...-review-dlc.htm

I repost this now as pages move fast. Do you think there is a possibility they really fix the ending through the movie? How this will be my story, then?


This would be a dumb thing to do, the mass effect games were about our Shepard's choices throughout the series. Getting a movie to correct the ending reduces the amount of choices (and there were barely any to begin with) down to none.


The movie was to follow the story of the first ME. Unless they recently changed that?
Well, I don't know about the plans, but it could be one possible business solution for damage control...there is the problem with free dlc, as well with pay dlc, there always will be fans angry about any of the choices. If its free, why it was not included originally, and if it's pay dlc...well..we all know how mass reaction works, you will never please veeryone, but they just simply can't leave this reactions about the ending without any move. They just can't. I could not believe BW would be that disconnected from their fanbase.



#38114
Horstyo

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They promised closure.

And closure they brought. And a very fine job they did. The big issues in ME3 felt so incredibly personal because they overlapped with your erstwhile squadmates' personal issues.
So many strong moments: Mordin sacrificing himself to cure the genophage, not trying to rationalize his deeds anymore; Thane dying while protecting someone; Legion destroying itself for the good of its people right after gaining sentience...
Well, either that or Mordin trying and failing to repent with a bullet in his stomach; Kirrahe holding the line once again; Tali tossing herself off a cliff. Right until the end I had the feeling that every decision I made mattered.
It was not absolutely perfect, dark energy wasn't mentioned at all, afaik the only difference between renegade and paragon choice @ME2 ending and I personally could have done very well without Kai Leng because I felt that he wasn't the sake of the story but more for the player to have yet another antagonist they can fight (to put it differently: I felt he was there because ME is a video game. D:), but those things didn't faze me much.
The dreams I took in stride; before the end I thought they were to make it absolutely clear that Shephard is breaking down after years of stress, dying once, having to deal with a possibly LI being a total **** (Kaidan/Ashley, I'm looking at you), saving the universe twice and seeing earth falling to the reapers.
Since it was clear how the whole situation was taking its toll on Shephard even without those Nightmares I rather they let them out, but they were by far not reaching Navi@OoT levels of annoying. No, everything was mostly fine. What I liked very much was this personal impression I had: Even though the whole reaper situation was so goddamn bleak, there was a promise of a better future. A future without the genophage for the krogans, a future on their homeworld for the quarians, a peaceful future for the geth, a future protected by a competent human Spectre even after Shephard's demise, a future with Vegas joining the N7 and presumably kicking ass. Only one thing left to do and Shephard'd finally have some well-deserved rest, be it in retirement or be it in death: Take back earth.

And right until Harbinger struck earth was awesome. However, after Shephard picked her/himself up, the first thing I noticed was my missing squad. FFS, they were right behind me, so they couldn't just have been disintegrated. And neither Garrus nor Tali can use SPACE MAGIC to teleport. a cutscene death would have been nice.
No, really: That would have been a player punch, but it would've been the good kind. It would have made the conflict with the reapers even more personal, it would have driven home that anyone can die, and that death is often messy, and that it can't always be expected, and that there's not always time for some last words. You know what you could have done? Let the Harbinger doom laser shatter Tali's mask. Exposing her face that way would have been a twist noone could have seen coming (Though I must admit: I did not see it coming that you'd be so lazy as to never even bother to think about how quarians, a race you've created look like under their suits and just... bleh, we all know about that Tali pic, don't we?).
But no, we can't have that. Possibly displeasing the fanbase might be very stupid. No crewmates. No cutscene. No bodies. Alright. They just... disappeared.

Fine. No, I don't want anyone to scream INDOCTRINATION, and I'll tell you why. Later. Okay, so Shephard is a dead badass walking, that's awesome, you shoot some husks, you shoot mister Marauder Shields, that's swell, then you get beamed up to the slaughterhouse that is the citadel, right, and Anderson is there and TIM as well and uhm, that scene is rather weird.
I loved the dialogue, I didn't quite like whatever TIM did to hijack the bodies of both Shephard and Anderson. I felt everything was moving faster than I could keep up, but I still understood what was important: My squadmates were dead, I was on the verge of destroying the reapers and the only thing left to do was getting rid of TIM.
I was not paragon enough for Saren 2.0, but comparing the outcomes I prefer shooting the Illusive Man myself so he can see earth one last time. Anyway, Shephard's free to... activate the catalyst, I guess, and then you have this perfect scene with those two tired veterans just sitting down and talking and Anderson dies and really, that scene shows what Bioware can do.

And you know what? That could've been that. Anderson dead, Shephard dying, the Crucible destroys the reapers. Shephard smiling one last time, remembering the LI, or maybe everyone, maybe putting her/his arm around Anderson, and then - credits.
I would have liked that. There would still be unresolved issues - dark energy, reaper history + motives, power behind the reapers, the cycles of extinction... That wouldn't have mattered. The reapers spent all three games explaining how they could not be understood - so let them be right about that. They are gone for good, the cycle is gone for good, they don't matter anymore.
That ending would have been lacking some final choice, but think about it: The big thing in ME3 is GET RID OF THE REAPERS. The choices Shephard makes do matter - they shape the future of the universe.
But there can be no choice about the reapers; there is to be no choice to be had about the reapers, no compromise, no alternative. They can't be understood, and they do not want to be understood, and they don't want to negotiate or to compromise. Every choice was important, but there would have been this one moment where the paths of every Shephard would've crossed.
Kill the reapers, rest in peace, and let life continue, shaped by Shephard's decisions more than by the reaper's touch. Of course, some kind of epilogue describing the impact of Shephard's actions would have been essential. Not a complete novel, just... dunno, what are the Krogans up to? Does everyone hate the Asari because of that whole beacon stuff on Thessia? Do Geth and Quarians get along? Did any of the Normandy crew survive? Meh.

But no, we can't have that. Shephard's not finished yet.
The catalyst is not working and then you are in space and there's this... whatever and it looks like the manifestation of Shephard's guilt over not being able to save everyone and it's the entity behind the cycle and the reapers and everything and the catalyst as well and synthetic life always destroys organic life which can't be proven because if that had already happened then there shouldn't be anymore organic life and furthermore I JUST PLAYED PEACEMAKER AND REUNITED GETH AND QUARIANS and obviously in the ME3 universe sufficently advanced AIs do develop something akin to a soul, whatever a soul is and therefore are to be seen as equals to organics and furthermore I don't see why the reapers can't just play peacekeeper and curbstomp synthetics if necessary and I want to talk back to that little dip**** but I can't and there's choices.
Oh, and let's not forget: Mister dip**** explained the reaper's purpose in like ten seconds flat.
"Yeah see, you guys always build some robots who would surely wipe you out because sure why not so I need to make sure to bomb you back into the stone ages for your own safety".
That's a stupid reason, but it's neither complicated nor something a human couldn't grasp, yet the reapers, Old God Alien Hivemind Nation beings that they are, can't even try to explain that over the course of three games? No, they spend minutes telling you that they can't tell you that. But of course, the little dip**** could be lying...

Well, yeah. He could. He has reason to, because he's your enemy. Yet he's telling you "dude here's your choice trust me" and you are like "yeah well why not".
At least one choice is "****ing destroy those reapers which is why you came here for and well, the geth are ****ed or maybe not and so is EDI and every other AI and so are you" so that counts for something.
Let's just assume that you decide to do that, and boom, the reapers are destroyed, every AI is destroyed, Shephard is destroyed, cue credits + epilogue.
I could live with that. I would not like it, however, because there's no explanation to what the catalyst is, or why it's lying to me, and even though Shephard is broken down physically and mentally it's goddamn Shephard and Shephard doesn't take no **** from any ****ty brats.
No, had ME3 ended like that, there would have been closure, but Shephard already died beside Anderson. I don't know who talked with the brat, but it was not my Shephard.

Sadly, there had to be a choice.
Alright, why not. There's this two guys, the one who looks like Shephard but is not Shephard and that thing that looks like Shephard's guilt trip and they decide how the save the galaxy.
Destruction looks save, control is obviously the "yeah bro remember when Morinth told you you were special and wouldn't die when joining with her? Idiot" decision where not-quite-Shephard is indoctrinated and then you have I don't know some kind of cyborg ending?
I don't quite like the idea, but that's something I'm willing to call personal distaste. Right. So, let's see what happens if I try to take over the reapers... it's gonna be the bad end, right?
Oh, it's working. The reapers are leaving and I guess Shephard is some kind of reaper hive mind now which is pretty neat and WHAT THE **** MASS RELAYS ARE COLLAPSING.

No, really. Now I'm not even saying that this should destroy everything because I don't remember Arrival that well and maybe that happened just because of the way that particular mass relay was deactivated.
No, I'm just wondering what everyone on earth is gonna do. Depending on War Assets you have like idk maybe have of the galactic population in Sol, and they are stranded.
That's just needlessly bleak: All those guys are doomed. Humanity is doomed. This is not story-driven, for not once is it even assumed that firing the Crucible could do that.
It's not even explained why or how it happens... it just does. Right, epilogue is going to take care of that, moving on. Oh, cool. Normandy.
collapsing mass relay. Right. Normandy. You might remember that there's a ****ing war going on. There's no known reason for the Normandy to be fleeing the scene of battle, and there is no explanation given. And there's nothing you could base any assumptions on.
Anyway, Normandy, explosions, some planet somewhere and... wait.
Tali? EDI? You know, Edi who should be on earth and Tali who sould be on earth and dead because Harbinger lasored her? Cue credits.

At this point there's no chance for redemption:
Even if the epilogue explains everything that happened, that was just a ****load of wtf moments. ME3 should have been about closure.
You could say that there is indeed closure, for the reaper threat is gone, but then I could say: **** that, and I would be right, because everyone hates jedi truths.
Anyway... there is an epilogue. Really, what more is there to say apart from the fact that it feels like Tali's face again and NO I DON'T WANT TO BUY YOUR ****ING DLCs?
Now see, one could argue that even though the over decisions are practically the same that's not that bad because I don't know Shephard doesn't know that or something. Right. The big problem here is, again, closure. The endings are exactly the same because there is no closure. You make your decision. Right. Something happens, all three decisions follow virtually the same path for a time before there comes divergence.
The problem is: ME3 is cut off before there are any noteworthy signs of this diversion. There are plotholes, and there are questions, and while the reapers are gone there is no closure because we are not told what is going to happen, apart from the fact that at some point in the future and some point in space one guy will tell the other guy about Shephard. There is no closure, and there is but the illusion of choice. Yet they promised closure, and yet Mass Effect stands for choices that matter. Bioware wanted to have an ending with closure and choice, yet they delivered an ending that lacks both, and, maybe  most importantly of all, is not subtle about its shortcomings.

Maybe everything makes sense if you assume that Shephard is indoctrinated. Well, let's. Somehow being hit by Harbinger's doom laser instantly and completely indoctrinated Shephard. Or maybe TIM did, whatever. So the whole meeting with the catalyst stuff didn't really happen. This would mean two things: One, Shephard is alive, for were he dead, he could most likely not continue having this indoctrination trip. Two, the last thing that really happened was either the Harbinger doom beam or meeting TIM. Either way, time passes, time during which events occur of which we as players know nothing of because we see the world through Shephard's eyes and Shephard's not reliable. Therefore there is no closure because we don't know what is really happening, and there are no real choices because... well d'uh, indoctrination. Maybe the indoctrination theory would make sense if assuming that the ending was planned to bring no closure.

Assuming this, however, means assuming that Bioware lied in your face, because THEY PROMISED CLOSURE. Personally I rather the devs unintentionally completeley failed to deliver than they planned their failure and intend to deliver closure with a dlc. Don't get me wrong. I like dlcs. But a product must feel complete without dlc. A dlc that completes a product ist not a dlc, but a lie: For I was not told that I spent my money on an incomplete product that will remain incomplete without further investment. And right now, Mass Effect 3 is incomplete, for they promised closure yet delivered a sequel hook.

This is, for me, not about not getting the ending I wanted, for I want Shephard to live and be happy and Tali to live and be happy and them to live happily ever after and I am aware of the fact that would be a happy, but not a good ending. This is about getting the ending that was promised.

#38115
silencemayday

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austrian infiltrators checking in.

seriously, before i finished this stupid letter i actually thought that i might lash out and start insulting people. now i realize that i'm not angry, but damn depressed and sad. jeez. poor paper-shredder that has to take care of all those letters.

#38116
Delhar

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256k wrote...

Ahh~~, Please guys, i want to know what you think about my post of the other page x3!

"If Cerberus ask - What is your name- the best answer is "no""

#38117
Hydralysk

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Fox544 wrote...

lol its sad that so many people ran off to the ME3 event while saying they were part of th movement. You don't get it both ways. Playing the MP for any reason is supporting Bioware's handling of the situation.


I don't really believe that, they joined a movement that's pushing for a new ending for ME3, they didn't sign up for a boycott.

It might help further our cause to abstain from it, but if they enjoy the multiplayer then we have no valid reason that they shouldn't 'get it both ways' when abstaining from multiplayer was indeed never mentioned as a requirement for participation.

#38118
Bedavenerabilis

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leonardo87 wrote...

Bubi7 wrote...

volkanhto wrote...
I loved the ending. Talking with Anderson for the last time was awesome. Don't know what starchild you guys are talking about i didn't see anything like that.
...Anyways hold the line people hold the line!

that reaper VI at the end, which looks like the child shepard saw at the beginning. The child entered a shuttle and got shot down. Shepard also had several dreams about that kid



Also:
http://www.machiavel...t-3-the-ending/


He is in the denial stage, it's better to think that "thing" never happened.


Maybe his mind has erazed all memeory about this to prtect itself? Lucky him i guess :D

#38119
infinitekilan

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I can't believe someone actually filed both a FTC complaint AND a Better Business Bureau complaint against EA.

If we ever find out who you are, you can bet everything you own that we will expel you from the Fleets and refuse to acknowledge your existence. Thank you SO much for making the rest of us look bad.

#38120
Memengwa

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talk_sick wrote...

An alarming thing just occured to me. We are not simply holding the line for Mass Effect. We are all that stands between now and the destruction of the entire video game industry.

What BW did with the ending (essentially telling us to go F*** ourselves and just "imagine" the rest) is a travesty that may undo everything video games have acomplished since Mario. It may lead developers to believe that they can just leave a cryptic FU note in place of the ending, and pass it off as "artistic vision", and none will be the wiser.

Don't like it, don't buy it, oh - you already bought it? Too bad for you...


Yeah, it is scary that as a video game customer, I have lot less rights than if I was someone who bought shoes I didn't like.

if the shoes break down, or I just think they are too ugly, I can still give them back. But with games they are no refunds for me. I need to have spyware installed on my PC just to be able to play the games, and before that I could have troubles with playing them, because the copyright checkers wouldn't recognzie my CDs/DVDs. I'm treated as a thief, money-cow to milk, and when I try to get what I want, I'm called entitled. When have I stoped being respected customer?

#38121
Feraiin

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talk_sick wrote...

An alarming thing just occured to me. We are not simply holding the line for Mass Effect. We are all that stands between now and the destruction of the entire video game industry.

What BW did with the ending (essentially telling us to go F*** ourselves and just "imagine" the rest) is a travesty that may undo everything video games have acomplished since Mario. It may lead developers to believe that they can just leave a cryptic FU note in place of the ending, and pass it off as "artistic vision", and none will be the wiser.

Don't like it, don't buy it, oh - you already bought it? Too bad for you...


Before I head out, I need to reply to this:

I am currently studying to be a Gamedesigner. Me and 25 others are the class of 2010 at the school we're at. There are dozens of people more from the other years, and most from my course are not happy about the ending.

I can tell you this: As the developers of tomorrow, I will make damn sure that this does not become practice.And I reckon my colleagues feel the same way.

#38122
baronkohinar

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christrek1982 wrote...

dono if this has been posted or if it was someone on this thred that found it but it is worth a read gave me some hope and it looks like they are on stage 2-3.

http://social.biowar...10084349-1.html


Wow, that's really interesting. Thanks for posting. I agree, it seems like that follows the timeline exactly. Just gotta hang on for the last stage!

#38123
Theb82

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SJK93 wrote...

Wraith 02 wrote...

Ah a week later and i'm still refusing to drop this, When will Bioware get the message


They say that they're listening. I can say with great certainty that they know about the movement and what we want. It might just take a little while for them to put out an official response. Hang in there.


The whole "were listening" is just aimed at keeping us quiet.  Once more have completed the game they will then respond with a q&a from our feedback trying to explain parts of the ending to us.  It is highly unlikely we will get a new ending as they still believe we are just a minority.

they may decide that it makes business sense to create something new but this would be unplanned and will take months to make and release.

#38124
VonVerrikan

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I am so proud of every poster here! To every single person here.. thank you, so much. Hold the line!!

#38125
Major Swift

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Memengwa wrote...


Yeah, it is scary that as a video game customer, I have lot less rights than if I was someone who bought shoes I didn't like.

if the shoes break down, or I just think they are too ugly, I can still give them back. But with games they are no refunds for me. I need to have spyware installed on my PC just to be able to play the games, and before that I could have troubles with playing them, because the copyright checkers wouldn't recognzie my CDs/DVDs. I'm treated as a thief, money-cow to milk, and when I try to get what I want, I'm called entitled. When have I stoped being respected customer?

nicely put :)