101103 réponses à ce sujet

[malra]

Other fans have held this line. Fans for Firefly, fans for Farscape. Now we might all disagree about content - but those fans were heard. Those fans made a difference, those fans got closure. Some of those fans recieve their graphic novels every few months published by Boom Comics.

So i'll just hold that line.

[Spanking Machine]

The gaming media doesn't pay for Bioware's monocles and fancy hats; we do. As a business the only people they need to keep happy are their customers.

At the moment I dont think most of us are inclined spend money on any DLC for ME3 unless it is a new ending, and so if they are not planning to give us one they might want to start looking into 2nd hand monocles.

Modifié par Spanking Machine, 17 mars 2012 - 07:39 .

[Nharia1]

infinitekilan wrote...

Nharia1 wrote...

infinitekilan wrote...


So just because it's gaming media that is standing against us the most, that automatically means we fail? Just because the media outlets that are in the pockets of big game corporations like EA, we can't possibly win? I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that the results of our outcome depended on the people EA pays to say what EA wants. Just like ANY revolution, it doesn't matter what those in power say. Eventually, the revolutionaries win, at least for the most part(in the interest of fairness, there was the failed Irish Rebellion, the Tibetan uprising, and quite a few others). It has been that way since the beginning of civilization. Yes there have been setbacks; some minor, some absolutely massive. But they still held the line and they still won. American Revolution? Won. Roman Slave Rebellions? Won. More recently, the protest against SOPA/PIPA.

Point? Those in power don't hold that power indefinitely. They can be overthrown, they can be brought down, they can be swayed.

This is no different. We can achieve victory, and we will.

Historical referances~! OoO You sir or madam, have a new follower! I'm huge history nut, beisde being a cook and gamer, and avid reader...

That would be sir.

*salutes* SIr yes sir, sorry for the confusion on the gender sir. You can never tell on the internet, sir. Won't happen again sir!

[ColloquialAnachron]

pikey1969 wrote...

First, I apologize for the tone, I hate the endings as much as you probably do, and personally there's a small sense of defeat in seeing the way things unfolded, and the negativity probably more than leaked into that post. As for your third point, I am no writer, nor will I ever pretend to be. I apologize for any miscommunication/offense caused by my poor phrasing/choice of words.

As for your second point, no there really hasn't been substantial support from the media outlets. I recall about 3-4 articles that have portrayed this movement in a positive light, none of them major gaming outlets, the ones that most PR firms specializing in the gaming industry look at and care about (for good reasons too, because for the most part that system works).

Forbes, at the first glance, may seem like a very formidable ally in the media. You immediately think, business magazine? Investors reading? EA, a public company? Win.

However, they're also somewhat of an outside-player in terms of the very complex media-publisher dichotomy that is very unique to how things are in the gaming industry. That's where the lionshare of general perceptions/consensus of your average gamers are formed. That's why so much of the PR for video games is so tightly wound up around its media-coverage.

Unless the movement can sway the opinion out there, chances of Bioware or more specifically EA being pressured into doing something about the crap endings is quite slim.

I fully accept your apology, and thank you very much for such a display of class, it's truly rare in the internet age.

While I continue to disagree with you in principle, you've made good and fair points here that in essence I cannot disagree with, most of the larger gaming media sites have, for whatever reasons, dimissed or derided the Retake campaign's activities.

  I do think that the PR battle is not quite over, and while I will to the end of my days despise Colin Moriarty and others of his ilk, for me the focus has always been on getting Bioware's attention and trying to get a change.  I'll keep trying simply because I've too many times in my life not done anything, experienced no change, and really couldn't complain since I'd done nothing.  This time, win lose or draw, at least I did something.

Still, I thank you very much for the respectful discussion.

[Sl4sh3r]

One thing I wanted to add to the...

"Things I don't like about ME3 besides the ending" category...

THE DAMN 'PUSH RELEASE' PLASTIC THING HOLDING THE DISCS IN THE BOX.

They are by far the most annoying 'push release' buttons out of any case I've ever seen.

[Lady_Aescwyn]

*long, tired sigh*

I've been watching and occasionally commenting on this thread since a few days before launch, but a part of me has been in denial this whole time. Hoping that it's all just a big misunderstanding or something... I don't even know. Well... I just finished the game and saw the endings with my own eyes...

I knew... I knew what would happen... But still... It hit me hard. I tried to rationalize it and failed. I don't even know why I'm so goddamn worked up over a VIDEO GAME!

I don't know... I'm just tired... And sad.

No anger.

Just the tiniest spark of determination.

We. Will. Fix. This.

Hold the line.

[Goodwood]

Sl4sh3r wrote...

One thing I wanted to add to the...

"Things I don't like about ME3 besides the ending" category...

THE DAMN 'PUSH RELEASE' PLASTIC THING HOLDING THE DISCS IN THE BOX.

They are by far the most annoying 'push release' buttons out of any case I've ever seen.

I wouldn't know. I have a digital copy.

[Nharia1]

xHezz90 wrote...



*claps* well said, I haven't been  paying much attention outside of here, except for the articles you guys post but I have facebook and I am alway on there so I see people I know and fan goups and such who are all upset and angry about the ending aswell, so it makes sense that it's not contained.

Heh, I've never really been one for speech making, but when I get on a roll, my friends tell me I've got some of the best stuff that they've ever heard... :innocent:  Personally I would have to say that I'm not all that great but that's just me...

[Lord Costantino]

Lady_Aescwyn wrote...

*long, tired sigh*

I've been watching and occasionally commenting on this thread since a few days before launch, but a part of me has been in denial this whole time. Hoping that it's all just a big misunderstanding or something... I don't even know. Well... I just finished the game and saw the endings with my own eyes...

I knew... I knew what would happen... But still... It hit me hard. I tried to rationalize it and failed. I don't even know why I'm so goddamn worked up over a VIDEO GAME!

I don't know... I'm just tired... And sad.

No anger.

Just the tiniest spark of determination.

We. Will. Fix. This.

Hold the line.

We will hold this line until we see the sun break the dawn! 

[JamesYHT]

Go to sleep, hold the line, guys, hold the line....

[Nharia1]

Goodwood wrote...

The Killer Angels is a novel, the second in a trilogy by Michael and Jeffrey Shaara (father and son—Mike died after completing one of the novels and Jeff finished the other two from notes). I have two reference books about the Civil War, Brother Against Brother published by Time Life, and the venerable Campfire and Battlefield, which was first published in the 1880s. While the latter is a little light on details, they both agree that the action was not premeditated.

Doesn't diminish what the regiment and its commander accomplished, though.

Agreed! Best damn thing that happend for the Union that battle besides them winning it.

[malra]

randomly binging on 'change the end of the story' this what popped first:
http://arstechnica.c...ory-control.ars, four days old but still nice, plus author changed mind if you read full thing.

[Goodwood]

Liara T'Soni would've wanted me to hold the line, so I'm holding it.

[ColloquialAnachron]

Sl4sh3r wrote...

One thing I wanted to add to the...

"Things I don't like about ME3 besides the ending" category...

THE DAMN 'PUSH RELEASE' PLASTIC THING HOLDING THE DISCS IN THE BOX.

They are by far the most annoying 'push release' buttons out of any case I've ever seen.

If I could quote this for truth one millions times I would.  I seriously think I'm going to snap the discs in half every single time.  Is that the point?  Am I supposed to have a disc at a ninety degree angle?

[HoldTheLine]

Sl4sh3r wrote...

One thing I wanted to add to the...

"Things I don't like about ME3 besides the ending" category...

THE DAMN 'PUSH RELEASE' PLASTIC THING HOLDING THE DISCS IN THE BOX.

They are by far the most annoying 'push release' buttons out of any case I've ever seen.

I know that feeling. Almost broke the disc trying to get it out of the stupid case

[Lord Costantino]

 I believe this needs to be heard again.

Hackett ftw

Modifié par Lord Costantino, 17 mars 2012 - 07:45 .

[Goodwood]

Nharia1 wrote...

Goodwood wrote...

The Killer Angels is a novel, the second in a trilogy by Michael and Jeffrey Shaara (father and son—Mike died after completing one of the novels and Jeff finished the other two from notes). I have two reference books about the Civil War, Brother Against Brother published by Time Life, and the venerable Campfire and Battlefield, which was first published in the 1880s. While the latter is a little light on details, they both agree that the action was not premeditated.

Doesn't diminish what the regiment and its commander accomplished, though.

Agreed! Best damn thing that happend for the Union that battle besides them winning it.

Don't tempt me...

I'm a Civil War, World War II and general military history nut, and any discussion between us would probably go on for hours and derail this thread...

[IndelibleJester]

Think of our heroes!

Hold the line, for Shepard!

For Anderson, Vakarian, Vas Normandy, Alenko, Williams, T'Soni, Vega, Taylor, Lawson, Jack, Krios, Urdnot, Massani, Goto, Solus, Javik, EDI, Legion, Samara and even Morinth.

[malra]

malra wrote...

randomly binging on 'change the end of the story' this what popped first:
http://arstechnica.c...ory-control.ars, four days old but still nice, plus author changed mind if you read full thing.

sorry didn't get full thought out, anyhow, may not totally agree with us, but that is only because he sees it as artistic.  As noted, games get changed when it is a business decision.  That is how we need to portray this.  So hold the line.

[HITMAN629]

Its great to see Bioware responding but I will not budge!
Hold the line!

[Hexi329]

pikey1969 wrote...

Well, it's too bad you guys decided to completely gloss over my original post, and jump immediately to 'lol troll'.

If you actually want this to go somewhere, you're gonna want to 'fight' the containment.

You may still be in the fight on "BSN", but if you really want to win and make a difference, you need to win in the real battleground, the gaming media, where you've been getting decimated, and in my opinion have already lost.

How? I don't know, you're the brilliant minds behind Child's Play, you figure it out. Write them, contact any prominent figures (if you know any) in there, or whatever.

But as long as you continue to get belittled on the 'outside' as a whole, the slighter your chances will be. And in my opinon, that's where this 'war' came to an end.

After reading through your "original post", I would have to say say that your tone was condescending, to say the least; it should not come as a surprise that people would think that you were trolling.

That aside, however, in regards to the points brought up about video games transforming into "serious media": It appears to be a common misconception that "art" or "higher forms of expression" need to be, to some extent, inaccessible, or at least that "art" should be under great control of the artists. This is patently untrue.

Shakespeare himself could easily be considered the "B-Movie" writer of his time, writing plays that would easily cater to the lowest common demoniator of the Elizabethan lower class. Although some of his more gory/raunchy/base works may have been forgotten/less "well-remebered" in modern times (i.e. Titus Adronicus), they were nonetheless among the most popular works of Shakespeare's time.

A more recent example of an artist adapting his art to an audience can be found in the work of Dickens. Dickens, as was common during the Victorian era, wrote many of his novels in a serial style. In many instances, when fans wrote mail to Dickens expressing their displeasure at his treatment of certain characters, he would more often than not listen to his fans and shoehorn in their suggestions despite whatever effect they would have on his plot. Insofar as this is the case, Dickens was motivated not only by the internal drive to create "art" or "literature" as much as he was to create a commercial product that would both cater and satisfy his fans.

That having been said, this theme of the commercialization of art runs rampant throughout various other forms of media. So-called high class "classical music" was written for a specific audience--the wealthy patrons that so often dominated the courts of 19th century Europe. Art during the Renaissance, like classical music, was made for wealthy patrons as well. And in more modern times, the rise of pop music and avant-garde pop art have catered to lower and lower denominators, undoubtedly showing a trend towards the democratization of art as a whole.

That having been said, if video games are really trying to establish themselves among the arts as a "serious medium", they should be willing to embrace what artists over the past millenia did without pause--cater to their intended audiences. Art is not made in a vacuum, nor should it ever be. Therefore, art should be made--and remade--to fit the desires or whims of the audience. And before anyone attempts to object that movie endings aren't changed, books aren't rewritten, etc... it would be important to note that movies can be remade, stories can be retold, and music be rewritten. And as long as those examples hold, why would it be unfair to ask that the ending of a videogame, if videogames can be considered art, be rewritten? After all, it is in the nature of a work of art to adapt to changing times, lest it be forgotten.

That having been said, to any who disagree to the point that videogames are art, the argument still holds: Video games are a commercial product. Commercial products should cater to the consumers to increase the profit margin. Consumers both wish for and are eager to pay for an alternate ending. Therefore, dlc should be released that changes the ending.

tl;dr Change the ending please

[infinitekilan]

The diehard fans are the ones who will always buy the DLC(or at least the mission-based/story DLC). As it stands right now, any future DLC release will do quite poorly compared to DLC from ME2 or ME1(except for Pinnacle Station). If Bioware wants to see their profits soar, Ending DLC should be a priority over Omega or any MP packs. Just going off the poll on the forums, 51,000 votes in favor of new endings, and assuming only half of them would be willing to buy DLC, that's still over $250,000 at $10 for the download. That's nothing to sneeze at.

[CitizenSnips28]

Ultimately its the gaming community that we have to win over as that leads to lost revenues, which is definitely interested in. Causes like this speak to the gaming communities natural tendency to distrust corporations, EA, gaming media etc. Also did you see those endings?! They suck on unholy levels. Metacritic scores are taking a beating over it. That's effective. Effective enough to get a change? Maybe not but as I said, half of this thing is a support group more than anything. I certainly would never have guessed I'd be here a few days ago before I hit the ending. Its not in my nature. They just so that bad.

Edit:-SIGH- mobile phone auto correct fail.

Modifié par CitizenSnips28, 17 mars 2012 - 07:51 .

[Nharia1]

Lord Costantino wrote...

Lady_Aescwyn wrote...

*long, tired sigh*

I've been watching and occasionally commenting on this thread since a few days before launch, but a part of me has been in denial this whole time. Hoping that it's all just a big misunderstanding or something... I don't even know. Well... I just finished the game and saw the endings with my own eyes...

I knew... I knew what would happen... But still... It hit me hard. I tried to rationalize it and failed. I don't even know why I'm so goddamn worked up over a VIDEO GAME!

I don't know... I'm just tired... And sad.

No anger.

Just the tiniest spark of determination.

We. Will. Fix. This.

Hold the line.

We will hold this line until we see the sun break the dawn! 

At dawn on the third day. Look to the east. Sorry had to throw that in there.

[tenojitsu]

Hey guys. People seem to be responding to the following thread favorably. What do you guys think?

http://social.biowar...ndex/10102827/1

Hold the line!