And it will be just a beginning!
I'm so proud of us for accomplishing all this so far. but we still have a long way to go
Let's keep holding the line!!
So we can't get the ending we want after all?
Débuté par
Dunmer of Redoran
, févr. 28 2012 01:06
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#39901
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 01:50
redfield2
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- Members
- 31 messages
1600 pages..? Wow.
And it will be just a beginning!
I'm so proud of us for accomplishing all this so far. but we still have a long way to go
Let's keep holding the line!!
And it will be just a beginning!
I'm so proud of us for accomplishing all this so far. but we still have a long way to go
Let's keep holding the line!!
Retour en haut
#39902
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 01:51
archangel1996
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- Members
- 1 263 messages
and now we must wait for Monday-Tuesday ...
#39903
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 01:51
laughing sherpa girl
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- Members
- 550 messages
7Am and i havent slept yet.. Time for central oregon to sign off for a while..
Hold the line.
Hold the line.
#39904
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 01:53
Gtacatalina
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- Members
- 402 messages
I've posted this on another thread and thought I'd add it here to..
You know I'm finding this all rather sad,
for the dedicated, hard working people at Bioware and for the fans who love ME.
I've spent 100's of hours playing and spent twice as much on the ME franchise. I've loved all the games, but I'm afraid I'm another fan who doesn't like the endings.
Most disappointing for me was that most of my decisions throughout the ME games were made null and void. The end didn't make any sense to me and how did Kaidan end up on the Normandy with Joker when he was with me on Earth? There are just so many more questions. I was so looking forward to replaying all the games, I have no desire to do so now
. and I'm afraid there is no insentive for me to buy any dlc for ME 3 either.
Hold the line!
You know I'm finding this all rather sad,
for the dedicated, hard working people at Bioware and for the fans who love ME.I've spent 100's of hours playing and spent twice as much on the ME franchise. I've loved all the games, but I'm afraid I'm another fan who doesn't like the endings.
Most disappointing for me was that most of my decisions throughout the ME games were made null and void. The end didn't make any sense to me and how did Kaidan end up on the Normandy with Joker when he was with me on Earth? There are just so many more questions. I was so looking forward to replaying all the games, I have no desire to do so now
. and I'm afraid there is no insentive for me to buy any dlc for ME 3 either. Hold the line!
#39905
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 01:54
Lethania
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- Members
- 283 messages
Memengwa wrote...
I did a scan of Swedish media, and we're making news and there's a lot more Swedes not happy with the ending than they are posting here. It also made to a huge tabloid in one of the evening papers. So anyone could read it
Anyway, since I'm getting myself depressed and need to get out of the rut, I'm going to make a try to play a game. I'm not truly feeling like it, but I can't just sit here all day reading the forums.
They are? Where? can't find any, tho I can't say I'm a big fan of Swedish media in general
Most of the relevant news I need coems from people on twitter that don't just tweet about the Royal family or that mustache man we had running around for a while.
#39906
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 01:55
Sengr
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- 12 messages
http://social.biowar.../index/10089946
WTF? Can anyone explain...maybe Casey Hudson don't know how to read?
WTF? Can anyone explain...maybe Casey Hudson don't know how to read?
#39907
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 01:55
milena87
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- Members
- 1 075 messages
Matt_gekko88 wrote...
and then forget:
www.youtube.com/watch
Bwhahaha, oh my, that was beautiful
Still holding the line!
#39908
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 01:56
illutian
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- Members
- 136 messages
Ya know what would have made this current ending "awesome". Is if we paragon-ed tIM down and instead of him shooting himself he just collapsed in disbelieve of how he's doomed not just the whole galaxy, but the human species (it'd be flipped since Cerberus is all Human > Aliens).
And you go along with Shep and Anderson sitting down; Anderson going UNCONSCIOUS! And then Hackett gets on saying how the Crucible isn't doing anything.
Then play the Villian-turned-Hero card (a la Darth Vader in Return of the Jedi). and tells Shep to take Anderson and go.
Now we, the player, take control of tIM (like we did with Joker in ME2). And all plays out with Red, Blue, or Green. If your War Points (EMwhatever) is high enough Shep and Anderson manage to make it back to that conduit thing and return to Earth moments before tIM picks the choice.
The relays can explode (or maybe that's more of an implosion-explosion, most of the energy directed inward and not outward [blowing up the planets]). I mean we'd still have a Conduit, which if I recall, is like a mini Mass Relay.
So, in the end:
-Reapers dealt with
-Shep lives (high enough points)
-Anderson lives (high enough points)
-Squad lives (high enough War Points-thing)
-Normandy doesn't get stranded (wtf is that ****?)
-non-Reaper Synth live (Blue/Green)
-Mass Relays quickly rebuilt (SHOW A CUTSCENE OF US ON-LINING A NEW SOL RELAY!)
-A mother-****ing happy ending that I spent about 170hrs EARNING
And you go along with Shep and Anderson sitting down; Anderson going UNCONSCIOUS! And then Hackett gets on saying how the Crucible isn't doing anything.
Then play the Villian-turned-Hero card (a la Darth Vader in Return of the Jedi). and tells Shep to take Anderson and go.
Now we, the player, take control of tIM (like we did with Joker in ME2). And all plays out with Red, Blue, or Green. If your War Points (EMwhatever) is high enough Shep and Anderson manage to make it back to that conduit thing and return to Earth moments before tIM picks the choice.
The relays can explode (or maybe that's more of an implosion-explosion, most of the energy directed inward and not outward [blowing up the planets]). I mean we'd still have a Conduit, which if I recall, is like a mini Mass Relay.
So, in the end:
-Reapers dealt with
-Shep lives (high enough points)
-Anderson lives (high enough points)
-Squad lives (high enough War Points-thing)
-Normandy doesn't get stranded (wtf is that ****?)
-non-Reaper Synth live (Blue/Green)
-Mass Relays quickly rebuilt (SHOW A CUTSCENE OF US ON-LINING A NEW SOL RELAY!)
-A mother-****ing happy ending that I spent about 170hrs EARNING
#39909
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 01:57
_Cmdr Shepard N-7
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- Members
- 11 messages
Found this to very good and well worth the time to read...
EternalSteelFan wrote:
A. First, a few pet peeves. Tropes are very popular for making generalizations about parts of stories we dislike, but they have a tendency to be overused and misused.
The Crucible isn't a MacGuffin. The best and most common example of an actual MacGuffin is the briefcase in Pulp Fiction; we don't know what is in the briefcase and we don't know how or why it functions, but it's important because it motivates the characters and drives the plot. Basically, a MacGuffin is important only because it's important. The Crucible in Mass Effect 3 is an actual plot device (a MacGuffin is a very specific subset of this); we are told what it is and what it's function is right from the beginning and it's use in the climax is in line with this.
The Crucible isn't an example of deus ex machina. Again, we know all along that the Crucible's function is to stop the Reapers, it's introduced at the beginning of the story, it's importance is reinforced throughout, and it's function during the climax is in line with what is expected. An example of Mass Effect ending with deus ex machina would be: the Reapers win the battle of Earth and are seemingly unstoppable, suddenly, and with no previous justification, an even more advanced race emerges from deep space and destroys the Reapers, saving Earth. The difference is obvious; one is a clearly defined plot device, the other is a magical fix with no precedent in the story.
Being the only time I'm going to talk about tropes, and for humorous purposes only, here are some I find more accurate for the ending: the lack of resolution after all the setting-shifting events, especially the lack of clarity in regards to the future of the setting and it's characters (including the protagonist and in some cases the antagonist force) may be considered no ending, the Reaper-God-Child and unexpected side effects of the Crucible may be considered diabolus ex machina, and the sudden shift of themes from hope and fighting the impossible fight to that of true art is angsty can be seen as an example of a sudden downer ending. I'm certain there are more we can shoehorn as applicable, but this is as far as I'm willing to go into tropes.
I want to iterate that I dislike how much we over analyze tropes and assign them as labels to similar and overgeneralized devices and themes. Stories are usually divergent enough from other stories that generalizing aspects of them with tropes rarely do them justice and are ambigous enough that what tropes a story actually uses are debatable. I only addressed the aforementioned devices of deus ex machina and MacGuffin because they are venerable and distinct enough that their usage in reference to Mass Effect 3 is clearly wrong. TL;DR: tropes are convenient but our time is better spent looking at the specifics of a given story.
B. The resolution of Mass Effect 3 falls short for many reasons. More than I'd care to get into, truth be told, so I'll try to punch on at least some of the major failings through the eyes of a screenwriter.
1. The ending feels jarring and out of place and there is little closure, this is a sympton of the ending failing to live up to what we come expect from the story. As I've previously said, "Mass Effect is a conventional story with conventional expectations". A conventional story, almost all stories, follow a pretty standard plotline: Introduction - Ascending Action - Climax - Descending Action - Resolution. In film we break it up into 3 acts, roughly: the first act is the introduction, the second act is the rising action and longest act of the story, and the third act is the climax and resolution.
Mass Effect 3 and the previous games follow this plotline both as individual stories and in the grand scheme of things as a trilogy (a trilogy is basically the three act structure writ large), that is until the final moments of 3. For reference, The battle for Earth is the climax of the series and the run across no man's land to the Citadel beam is the climax of the specific game; with this in mind, the Citadel sequence is the final part of the descending action and the resolution for both the game and series, the part where the antagonist is finally defeated, the themes and dramatic questions are answered, and the loose ends are tied. Or rather, it should be. After the defeat of the Illusive Man (the antagonist role is somewhat muddled and blurry towards the end of the story, more on that briefly), the protagonist has reached his goal, the defeat of the Reapers is at hand; conventionally, this is where the protagonist would succeed, the Crucible fire, and the Reapers destroyed. Instead, the story grows convoluted (once again, this is supposed to be the resolution) at the height of the scene by jarring us out of it with the bizarre, dreamlike sequence of Sheperd's ascent on the magic platform and the introduction of an ancient and seemingly god-like form who expounds the final choice between three options, all presented symbolically in appearance and action: one which mirrors a co-antagonist's desire which has been reinforced throughout as wrong and contradictory of the protagonist's; one which is downright bizarre and is almost completely outside the scope of the game's main themes save for being somewhat in line with the primary antagonistic forces' goal; and one which accurately mirrors the protagonist's goal from since the beginning. The results of these choices vary and are wide-reaching, creating a massive upheaval of the story world, while being unclear. All of the characters and the entire setting are left to an uncertain and sometimes confusing fate.
Just looking at what I've typed, it's apparent this is not a resolution. New information is introduced throughout the entire sequence rather than tying loose ends. New information shouldn't be introduced in a resolution unless it directly resolves something or is quickly resolved itself; definitively, it's the opposite of what a resolution is. In layman's terms, this is what makes us feel like there are more questions than answers.
The fate of the characters and the final destination they reach in the story are crucial to the resolution, especially on the scale of a trilogy. During the ascending action, right before the climax of the no man's land run, we are given a send off from all of the characters; this is both out of order for a conventional plotline (more fitting the descending action rather than ascending) and dimished by the implications of the ending. Ultimately, it is through the characters that we most directly identify with the story and find the meaning, the lack of resolution in this regard is especially unsatisfying.
The resolution is where the audience is supposed to find the tale's "ever after", be it happy or sad. Mass Effect 3 completely lacks any sense of "ever after".
2. Video games, like film, are a visual medium; the ending tells us what happens rather than shows us what happens. This is easy to overlook but very important. Visual mediums for story are all about what we see. Another cardinal sin of storytelling commited during the ending is the description of, and differences between, the options in the final choice are almost all conveyed through exposition. The cinematics themselves, what we actually see, are extremely similar and all the implications of the choice we make are conveyed through what the exposition had told us. This is very poor storytelling and worse still to be considered the resolution.
3. Ambiguity, lack of clarity, plot holes. Relating to the previous points, the ending is excessively ambiguous and unclear. With only unclear exposition before the choice and without sufficient data presented afterwards, many situations are unaccounted for and either lack clarity at best or appear as plot holes at worst. The crash landing of the Normandy is a clear example of this ambiguity, both in it's plausibility and implications for the fate of the crew.
4. Nothing is gained by breaking convention and attempting to make the ending enigmatic or profound. Assuming this was the writers' goal, this is another failing. Some believe, myself included, that the writers' tried to use the jarring impact of an unconventional, imperfect ending to hammer home a message or theme (presumably: pre-destination, the uncontrollable nature of fate, and the individual's limited ability to impact the world). This, however, comes at the cost of the story and the audience's pleasure, a cost that is far too high for the nature of storytelling.
5. The resurgence and emphasis on The Illusive Man during the resolution as well as the lack of interaction with the Reapers and, more specifically, Harbinger, detracts from the Reapers as the antagonist. A lot of people expected a "boss fight" of sorts or a closing discussion with Harbinger at the end. This is a perfectly understandable and legitimate expectation. During the climax, we are almost defeated by Harbinger, the avatar for the Reapers as antagonist, however, during the resolution, it is the indoctrinated Illusive Man that takes takes center stage. Though he unwittingly is an assisting force for the Reapers, he is not directly representative of them, merely their influence. TIM's role is more fitting that of an obstacle to be overcome during the rising action.
The prominance of The Illusive Man as the final foe to be overcome detracts from the overall threat and importance of the true antagonist, the Reapers.
6. Shepherd is not a tragic hero. A common debate I see is between people who think there should be a happy ending and people who think such an ending would be out of place or impossible, sometimes refering to Shepherd as "tragic". The simple fact is, Shepherd has no tragic flaw nor does he make a tragic mistake; had such a tragic characteristic existed, it could be a foregone conclusion he would die. Overcoming the Reapers may be an impossible task, but the impossible is
routinely overcome in the Mass Effect trilogy and other epics. As is, there is nothing in the story that would railroad Shepherd towards an inevitable demise, the difficulty of his task makes his death likely, but there's nothing that should remove the possibility of a happy ending. This may be why many people want a "happy" or "brighter" ending, there's no setup nor payoff to Shepherd's death and without those it may feel cheap; storytelling is all about setup and payoff.
For an example of a good tragic hero, look no farther than Mordin Solus. His tragic mistake was the creation of the genophage. When a desperate need for krogan intervention arose and the genophage was the reason they refused, Mordin fulfilled his tragic role by sacrificing and redeeming himself. There's a big setup for the genophage throughout the series and Mordin's involvement is setup in the second game as a huge internal conflict for him. In three, this all pays off beautifully with either his redemption or brutal murder at Shepherd's hands before he can succeed. This is proper execution for a tragic character. From what I've seen, this is one of the most beloved and well-received storylines in the game; compare that to the ending's reception.
These points were written as a stream of conscious, I'm sure there are plenty of things I've missed or didn't feel like going in depth about, but I think those are some of the most important ones.
C. As I was writing this I read the Final Hours thread containing comments from Mac Walters and Casey Hudson as well as Walters' scribbled notes for the ending. Honestly I was taken aback.
Judging the content Hudson cut based on his feel for "the moment", I'd say his feel for emotional beats and his judgement of what was expendable for story economy was atrocious. The first Mass Effect was inundated at times with exposition and had very poor economy, this ending, on the other hand, is something of an opposite with not nearly enough information.
Walters' notes scrawled across loose leaf disappointed me. The ideas are clearly not fleshed out at all, strictly drawing board material, the execution we see in game is indicative of that. " Lots of speculation from everyone" is somewhat repulsive, as if providing an unclear, poorly planned ending that leaves your audience unsatisfied and grasping at straws for answers is somehow good storytelling. It gives me the inclination that the ending really was just for publicity.
I hope it continues to backfire.
Anyway, I'm off. Any interest or questions or if you want to pick my brain about storytelling, we'll call this a work in progress.
Updated: point 6
EternalSteelFan wrote:
A. First, a few pet peeves. Tropes are very popular for making generalizations about parts of stories we dislike, but they have a tendency to be overused and misused.
The Crucible isn't a MacGuffin. The best and most common example of an actual MacGuffin is the briefcase in Pulp Fiction; we don't know what is in the briefcase and we don't know how or why it functions, but it's important because it motivates the characters and drives the plot. Basically, a MacGuffin is important only because it's important. The Crucible in Mass Effect 3 is an actual plot device (a MacGuffin is a very specific subset of this); we are told what it is and what it's function is right from the beginning and it's use in the climax is in line with this.
The Crucible isn't an example of deus ex machina. Again, we know all along that the Crucible's function is to stop the Reapers, it's introduced at the beginning of the story, it's importance is reinforced throughout, and it's function during the climax is in line with what is expected. An example of Mass Effect ending with deus ex machina would be: the Reapers win the battle of Earth and are seemingly unstoppable, suddenly, and with no previous justification, an even more advanced race emerges from deep space and destroys the Reapers, saving Earth. The difference is obvious; one is a clearly defined plot device, the other is a magical fix with no precedent in the story.
Being the only time I'm going to talk about tropes, and for humorous purposes only, here are some I find more accurate for the ending: the lack of resolution after all the setting-shifting events, especially the lack of clarity in regards to the future of the setting and it's characters (including the protagonist and in some cases the antagonist force) may be considered no ending, the Reaper-God-Child and unexpected side effects of the Crucible may be considered diabolus ex machina, and the sudden shift of themes from hope and fighting the impossible fight to that of true art is angsty can be seen as an example of a sudden downer ending. I'm certain there are more we can shoehorn as applicable, but this is as far as I'm willing to go into tropes.
I want to iterate that I dislike how much we over analyze tropes and assign them as labels to similar and overgeneralized devices and themes. Stories are usually divergent enough from other stories that generalizing aspects of them with tropes rarely do them justice and are ambigous enough that what tropes a story actually uses are debatable. I only addressed the aforementioned devices of deus ex machina and MacGuffin because they are venerable and distinct enough that their usage in reference to Mass Effect 3 is clearly wrong. TL;DR: tropes are convenient but our time is better spent looking at the specifics of a given story.
B. The resolution of Mass Effect 3 falls short for many reasons. More than I'd care to get into, truth be told, so I'll try to punch on at least some of the major failings through the eyes of a screenwriter.
1. The ending feels jarring and out of place and there is little closure, this is a sympton of the ending failing to live up to what we come expect from the story. As I've previously said, "Mass Effect is a conventional story with conventional expectations". A conventional story, almost all stories, follow a pretty standard plotline: Introduction - Ascending Action - Climax - Descending Action - Resolution. In film we break it up into 3 acts, roughly: the first act is the introduction, the second act is the rising action and longest act of the story, and the third act is the climax and resolution.
Mass Effect 3 and the previous games follow this plotline both as individual stories and in the grand scheme of things as a trilogy (a trilogy is basically the three act structure writ large), that is until the final moments of 3. For reference, The battle for Earth is the climax of the series and the run across no man's land to the Citadel beam is the climax of the specific game; with this in mind, the Citadel sequence is the final part of the descending action and the resolution for both the game and series, the part where the antagonist is finally defeated, the themes and dramatic questions are answered, and the loose ends are tied. Or rather, it should be. After the defeat of the Illusive Man (the antagonist role is somewhat muddled and blurry towards the end of the story, more on that briefly), the protagonist has reached his goal, the defeat of the Reapers is at hand; conventionally, this is where the protagonist would succeed, the Crucible fire, and the Reapers destroyed. Instead, the story grows convoluted (once again, this is supposed to be the resolution) at the height of the scene by jarring us out of it with the bizarre, dreamlike sequence of Sheperd's ascent on the magic platform and the introduction of an ancient and seemingly god-like form who expounds the final choice between three options, all presented symbolically in appearance and action: one which mirrors a co-antagonist's desire which has been reinforced throughout as wrong and contradictory of the protagonist's; one which is downright bizarre and is almost completely outside the scope of the game's main themes save for being somewhat in line with the primary antagonistic forces' goal; and one which accurately mirrors the protagonist's goal from since the beginning. The results of these choices vary and are wide-reaching, creating a massive upheaval of the story world, while being unclear. All of the characters and the entire setting are left to an uncertain and sometimes confusing fate.
Just looking at what I've typed, it's apparent this is not a resolution. New information is introduced throughout the entire sequence rather than tying loose ends. New information shouldn't be introduced in a resolution unless it directly resolves something or is quickly resolved itself; definitively, it's the opposite of what a resolution is. In layman's terms, this is what makes us feel like there are more questions than answers.
The fate of the characters and the final destination they reach in the story are crucial to the resolution, especially on the scale of a trilogy. During the ascending action, right before the climax of the no man's land run, we are given a send off from all of the characters; this is both out of order for a conventional plotline (more fitting the descending action rather than ascending) and dimished by the implications of the ending. Ultimately, it is through the characters that we most directly identify with the story and find the meaning, the lack of resolution in this regard is especially unsatisfying.
The resolution is where the audience is supposed to find the tale's "ever after", be it happy or sad. Mass Effect 3 completely lacks any sense of "ever after".
2. Video games, like film, are a visual medium; the ending tells us what happens rather than shows us what happens. This is easy to overlook but very important. Visual mediums for story are all about what we see. Another cardinal sin of storytelling commited during the ending is the description of, and differences between, the options in the final choice are almost all conveyed through exposition. The cinematics themselves, what we actually see, are extremely similar and all the implications of the choice we make are conveyed through what the exposition had told us. This is very poor storytelling and worse still to be considered the resolution.
3. Ambiguity, lack of clarity, plot holes. Relating to the previous points, the ending is excessively ambiguous and unclear. With only unclear exposition before the choice and without sufficient data presented afterwards, many situations are unaccounted for and either lack clarity at best or appear as plot holes at worst. The crash landing of the Normandy is a clear example of this ambiguity, both in it's plausibility and implications for the fate of the crew.
4. Nothing is gained by breaking convention and attempting to make the ending enigmatic or profound. Assuming this was the writers' goal, this is another failing. Some believe, myself included, that the writers' tried to use the jarring impact of an unconventional, imperfect ending to hammer home a message or theme (presumably: pre-destination, the uncontrollable nature of fate, and the individual's limited ability to impact the world). This, however, comes at the cost of the story and the audience's pleasure, a cost that is far too high for the nature of storytelling.
5. The resurgence and emphasis on The Illusive Man during the resolution as well as the lack of interaction with the Reapers and, more specifically, Harbinger, detracts from the Reapers as the antagonist. A lot of people expected a "boss fight" of sorts or a closing discussion with Harbinger at the end. This is a perfectly understandable and legitimate expectation. During the climax, we are almost defeated by Harbinger, the avatar for the Reapers as antagonist, however, during the resolution, it is the indoctrinated Illusive Man that takes takes center stage. Though he unwittingly is an assisting force for the Reapers, he is not directly representative of them, merely their influence. TIM's role is more fitting that of an obstacle to be overcome during the rising action.
The prominance of The Illusive Man as the final foe to be overcome detracts from the overall threat and importance of the true antagonist, the Reapers.
6. Shepherd is not a tragic hero. A common debate I see is between people who think there should be a happy ending and people who think such an ending would be out of place or impossible, sometimes refering to Shepherd as "tragic". The simple fact is, Shepherd has no tragic flaw nor does he make a tragic mistake; had such a tragic characteristic existed, it could be a foregone conclusion he would die. Overcoming the Reapers may be an impossible task, but the impossible is
routinely overcome in the Mass Effect trilogy and other epics. As is, there is nothing in the story that would railroad Shepherd towards an inevitable demise, the difficulty of his task makes his death likely, but there's nothing that should remove the possibility of a happy ending. This may be why many people want a "happy" or "brighter" ending, there's no setup nor payoff to Shepherd's death and without those it may feel cheap; storytelling is all about setup and payoff.
For an example of a good tragic hero, look no farther than Mordin Solus. His tragic mistake was the creation of the genophage. When a desperate need for krogan intervention arose and the genophage was the reason they refused, Mordin fulfilled his tragic role by sacrificing and redeeming himself. There's a big setup for the genophage throughout the series and Mordin's involvement is setup in the second game as a huge internal conflict for him. In three, this all pays off beautifully with either his redemption or brutal murder at Shepherd's hands before he can succeed. This is proper execution for a tragic character. From what I've seen, this is one of the most beloved and well-received storylines in the game; compare that to the ending's reception.
These points were written as a stream of conscious, I'm sure there are plenty of things I've missed or didn't feel like going in depth about, but I think those are some of the most important ones.
C. As I was writing this I read the Final Hours thread containing comments from Mac Walters and Casey Hudson as well as Walters' scribbled notes for the ending. Honestly I was taken aback.
Judging the content Hudson cut based on his feel for "the moment", I'd say his feel for emotional beats and his judgement of what was expendable for story economy was atrocious. The first Mass Effect was inundated at times with exposition and had very poor economy, this ending, on the other hand, is something of an opposite with not nearly enough information.
Walters' notes scrawled across loose leaf disappointed me. The ideas are clearly not fleshed out at all, strictly drawing board material, the execution we see in game is indicative of that. " Lots of speculation from everyone" is somewhat repulsive, as if providing an unclear, poorly planned ending that leaves your audience unsatisfied and grasping at straws for answers is somehow good storytelling. It gives me the inclination that the ending really was just for publicity.
I hope it continues to backfire.
Anyway, I'm off. Any interest or questions or if you want to pick my brain about storytelling, we'll call this a work in progress.
Updated: point 6
#39910
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 01:58
Bionic Weapon
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- Members
- 462 messages
Peete wrote...
Byleth wrote...
Bionic Weapon wrote...
Man almost 1600 pages and we're still going strong. What an honor it has been to serve with you all and you know what?, we're just getting started. So continue holding the line continue standing strong continue being united as a group of not just gamers but for all who care so much about Mass Effect that they will to take a stand to fight for it.
We are many
We are strong
We are legendary
We hold the line
You forget "my name is Legion, because we are many !"
Shouldn't it be "our name is legion for we are many"?
You know that I meant that:lol: But I digress
We are Legion for we are many.
Carry on as men, women, gamers, people.
Remain in unison and hold the line
* Salutes*
Modifié par Bionic Weapon, 17 mars 2012 - 01:59 .
#39911
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 01:59
Denethar
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- Members
- 543 messages
Lethania wrote...
Memengwa wrote...
I did a scan of Swedish media, and we're making news and there's a lot more Swedes not happy with the ending than they are posting here. It also made to a huge tabloid in one of the evening papers. So anyone could read it
Anyway, since I'm getting myself depressed and need to get out of the rut, I'm going to make a try to play a game. I'm not truly feeling like it, but I can't just sit here all day reading the forums.
They are? Where? can't find any, tho I can't say I'm a big fan of Swedish media in general
http://www.aftonblad...icle14530649.ab
Only news article I've seen in Sweden so far.
#39912
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 01:59
Conspicuous Cake
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- Members
- 422 messages
Sengr wrote...
http://social.biowar.../index/10089946
WTF? Can anyone explain...maybe Casey Hudson don't know how to read?
Oh, no, he's just on PR damage control.
Read this: http://social.biowar.../index/10084349
#39913
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 01:59
T-Raks
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- Members
- 823 messages
For me it' not about the ending(s) being bittersweet, but them making no sense, having plotholes and being badly written. That shouldn't happen for the closure of the Shepard story. It's disappointing because I really, really like the rest of the game.
#39914
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:02
Rubmifer
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- Members
- 42 messages
I know people requested this in high res:
http://wallbase.cc/wallpaper/1772397
My new current desktop
http://wallbase.cc/wallpaper/1772397
My new current desktop
#39915
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:02
Kynroyka
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After reading this
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10084349/1
I'm even more determined to see this through.
Hold the line.
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10084349/1
I'm even more determined to see this through.
Hold the line.
#39916
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:03
BuddhaGeek
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Ugh! Finally, I got my account up and running!!
SSV Deep Dish of the Chicago Flying Wiseguys reporting!
I'm overjoyed that this is getting as much attention as it is (although some of it is less positive than others). My partner is at the point now where he's waving other games in front of me to try to distract me from this >.>
I've been posting on the Facebook page pretty frequently in the last few days. This morning, I responded to a post made on The Escapist that cites the recent Gamespur article regarding the FTC complaint.
Please, I encourage anyone who has problems with the RME movement being generalized in the way that the Gamespur contributor has to make their voices heard and inform the misinformed.
Hold the line, brothers and sisters! We can do this!
www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.354634-Fans-file-FTC-complaint-against-EA-over-false-Mass-Effect-3-Advertising
SSV Deep Dish of the Chicago Flying Wiseguys reporting!
I'm overjoyed that this is getting as much attention as it is (although some of it is less positive than others). My partner is at the point now where he's waving other games in front of me to try to distract me from this >.>
I've been posting on the Facebook page pretty frequently in the last few days. This morning, I responded to a post made on The Escapist that cites the recent Gamespur article regarding the FTC complaint.
Please, I encourage anyone who has problems with the RME movement being generalized in the way that the Gamespur contributor has to make their voices heard and inform the misinformed.
Hold the line, brothers and sisters! We can do this!
www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.354634-Fans-file-FTC-complaint-against-EA-over-false-Mass-Effect-3-Advertising
#39917
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:03
TheBull
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^Very nice read agree with many points and surprised by many different other like Mac Walters is not at fault here.......ok
#39919
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:04
Pinkflu
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Hey, line-holders. Just discovered this piece of gold from the Mass Deflect tumblr: http://www.youtube.c...v=mShPUudWE7s#!
Modifié par Pinkflu, 17 mars 2012 - 02:05 .
#39920
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:04
TumblingBumblebee
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Everyone please read this if you didn't do it already:
MUST READ: Expert Analysis of BioWare's PR Strategy:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10084349/1
Hold the line! We can win this!
MUST READ: Expert Analysis of BioWare's PR Strategy:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10084349/1
Hold the line! We can win this!
#39921
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:05
Tyranniac
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Trojan_33 wrote...
Just to remind anyone new coming to this thread or to someone who has been holding the line for awhile now, I just want to remind you of some of the reasons why we are fighting. We are resisting because this ending had huge plot holes, character flips, and leaps of logic such as:
1. In Mass Effect one, the Citadel was just a giant Mass Relay designed to be a trap. It required signaling by the Reapers to activate, the Protheans altered its code to stop the signal acceptance, and the Reaper Sovereign had to try and manually override to activate it. If he is the number one Reaper Boss, why couldn't he fix what the Protheans did to him? Why does he need a Reaper at all to send him a signal?
2. Mass Relay explosion = a star going nova according to Arrival. Also evidenced by Joker running away from a massive blast wave(unsuccessfully) that broke the Normandy when it made contact with it travelling at FTL speed. So didn't we just destroy every major civilization in the galaxy including our own?
3. Speaking blowing up the relays, even if they didn't completely go supernova, didn't I just strand every fleet in the galaxy in our solar system and since they can't eat the same kind of food and thereby am committing starvation genocide?
There are more, of course, but I just wanted a reminder. Oh and if you need help with the ending, you could just replace it with this one, esp if you like Anime.
Anime version of ME3 ending:
Well, not all of us are fighting for that. There are so many other things that I actually consider -more- important:
Shepard shouldn't have to obey to the starchild!
Decisions should influence the ending!
The ending shouldn't leave more questions than answers!
The ending should be satisfying!
Shepard should have a chance for a future!
(Yeah. I want blue babies. There should be the option for a happier ending if one works hard enough. Shepard earned it damn it!)
#39922
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:05
laughing sherpa girl
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Sengr wrote...
http://social.biowar.../index/10089946
WTF? Can anyone explain...maybe Casey Hudson don't know how to read?
yeahhh, lets see, You lose : Thane, Grunt, Mordin, Perhaps Tali, Perhaps Legion, perhaps Miranda, pehaps a whole lotta people..
I think they got a little caried away on the bittersett part. Nothing sweet about that ending, its just plain bitter..
#39923
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:06
naes1984
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AND ANOTHER THING, So much was made about the Rachni queen in ME 1 and then if you save her your anticipation gets ratcheted up when the asari on Illium basically says the queen is pissed and is going to help you take down the Reapers when the time comes. In addition we hear news reports of Rachni ships. Oh man, I can't wait! What's the payoff in ME3? Another mission where the queen is held hostage. The reward?100 Galactic Readiness Points and a comment from Hackett that they are scaring the engineers on the Crucible. I think that saving the Krogan Atarot company yields the same # of Galactic Points. Rachni Never mentioned or seen again at the end. Aria's pirate fleet yielded more positive results. I had 7200 points by the end so what's 100 matter? Saving or killing the queen encapsulates my frustration with the endgame. The choices I made in the previous games were not respected when they should have counted the most.
#39924
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:06
Welsh Inferno
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Rubmifer wrote...
I know people requested this in high res:
http://wallbase.cc/wallpaper/1772397
My new current desktop
Thats awesome. Think I'll use it too.
I'v had the one from BioWare where Shepard, Anderson, Garrus, Liara and some alliance soldier are walking to the beam for ages now. Why I do not know....
EDIT: I find it hilarious that a Krogan BABY is wearing armour lol..
Modifié par Welsh Inferno, 17 mars 2012 - 02:08 .
#39925
Posté 17 mars 2012 - 02:07
Matt_gekko88
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laughing sherpa girl wrote...
Sengr wrote...
http://social.biowar.../index/10089946
WTF? Can anyone explain...maybe Casey Hudson don't know how to read?
yeahhh, lets see, You lose : Thane, Grunt, Mordin, Perhaps Tali, Perhaps Legion, perhaps Miranda, pehaps a whole lotta people..
I think they got a little caried away on the bittersett part. Nothing sweet about that ending, its just plain bitter..
AFAIK Legion dies, no matter what
