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So we can't get the ending we want after all?


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#40601
malra

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Ghaleon80 wrote...

Well as a silent fan/lurker for awhile thought i'd  join with  you all never has a game ending disappointed me so much. thought i'd borrow a  speech from Admiral Hackett(though changed some to fit this scenario)

Never before have so many come together from all corners of the  Bioware Forums, but never before have we faced an ending as bad as this, the PR guys  developers and trolls will show us no mercy we must give them no quarter but remain polite. They will try and break the line with gifts and false  hope we must stand strong in the face of theese gimmicks, they  will advance until the last poster gives up, But we will fall! we will prevail.

Future games will be defined by the actions of this coming battle developers will think twice before they rush an ending, Stand  fast  stand  strong stand together do not break the  line!


(maybe a bit melodramatic  lol and i have nothing but  respect for bioware and the developers but also disappointment over the endings, unless this is changed i am done with bioware products.

meodrama rocks.  love that speech.

Hold the line

#40602
tompuddefoot

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www.youtube.com/watch

^^^^^^Do as the man says ^^^^^^

#40603
Rubmifer

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My thoughts go out to Fabrice Muamba, player of Bolton, who suddenly collapsed on the football field after having a heart attack, and is still fighting for his life.

Puts everything a bit in perspective. 

Modifié par Rubmifer, 17 mars 2012 - 06:49 .


#40604
Doppelgaenger

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TamiBx wrote...

 I want to post on that thread where Bioware is asking us what we want them to fix, but I can't bring myself to do it. There are so many things they can do with the ending to fix that I'm not sure what to say. I kind of want them to look at all the potential endings and choose it for themselves. It can't be hard; they wrote a 95% awesome game. They just ruined 5% of it. 


Then explain what you liked in the first 95% of the game and ask them to to an ending in line with what you liked?

#40605
Stygian1

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Back reinforcing the Line.

How is everything?

#40606
PsylenceRD

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LilyasAvalon wrote...

thedistortedchild wrote...

bustyhog wrote...

This may be a time when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.


*snipped photo* (Try to link, not put it up. Something about forum posts and too many pictures)


So essentially it's infinity vs infinity?


Well... theoretically, if you take the limit at they both head toward inifity, it equals... 1? I'm pretty sure. So, err, let that be a lesson to... yeah okay, not really too sure where I'm going with that either. I suppose the best thing to say, was what someone previous did in a Napolean quote.

BuddhaGeek wrote...

"Victory belongs to the most persevering" -Napoleon Bonaparte



#40607
silencemayday

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Alamandorious wrote...

Returning to the line.

I'm guessing not much new in the last 8 hours?

Got the IGN wiki link, heard about a german review thing (positive or negative?), anything else?


the article is mainly about the charity and pretty neutral. page itself is well respected though and quite famous.

#40608
Jackalope

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Darth_Acheron47 wrote...

Maybe it's just the good-will of the weekend getting to me, but I'm really starting to consider the chances that all of this could be intentional. (Not the outrage, per say, but at least the "ending" as it stands now.) The main reason for this? It seems like it would take an enormous amount of work to mess up so badly.
...
But I just can't see them messing up the ending this badly unless it was on purpose. It's like the ending of ME2 with the suicide mission - in order to get the "bad" ending where everyone dies, you have to INTENTIONALLY try for it. You have to REALLY try HARD to get that horrible a result out of what you've been doing.

Given the skill I've seen from BioWare over the years, starting when I got KOTOR in 2005, this just doesn't make sense. I can't believe they could mess up this badly this quickly right at the END of not only the game but also the trilogy.


That's kind of how I feel.  I've liked the story KOTOR, Jade Empire, Dragon Age, and Mass Effect.  Sure, there were characters that I was less than thrilled about (none that I actually hate though), or choices that were totally gut-twisting, but that's okay.  Even in a book or a movie, some scenes are too much to handle or seem a little slow, but that usually doesn't detect if the overall story is good.

Why be lazy about the ending?  Let's say this is all about work, time, and money.  Why get cheap in the last fifteen minutes?  Of all the places to skimp, that's the worst.  It makes no sense.  If you can't create a decent ending, and you don't want the luxery of epilogues...skimp somewhere else, for crying out loud.  Take a floor out of the Normandy.  Shorten the missions.  I hate to say it, but focus on the final push rather than those awesome moments with Samara, Tali, or Wrex.

You know, I thought about this morning, and I avoided the boards for several months to avoid spoilers about the plot and character fates.  I hoped back on a week ago to check and see what I did wrong to get that trippy ending and what to do to 'fix' it.  Whoops.

Holding the line in sunny Florida.

#40609
Alamandorious

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silencemayday wrote...

Alamandorious wrote...

Returning to the line.

I'm guessing not much new in the last 8 hours?

Got the IGN wiki link, heard about a german review thing (positive or negative?), anything else?


the article is mainly about the charity and pretty neutral. page itself is well respected though and quite famous.


Cool.

#40610
Ghaleon

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malra wrote...

Ghaleon80 wrote...

Well as a silent fan/lurker for awhile thought i'd  join with  you all never has a game ending disappointed me so much. thought i'd borrow a  speech from Admiral Hackett(though changed some to fit this scenario)

Never before have so many come together from all corners of the  Bioware Forums, but never before have we faced an ending as bad as this, the PR guys  developers and trolls will show us no mercy we must give them no quarter but remain polite. They will try and break the line with gifts and false  hope we must stand strong in the face of theese gimmicks, they  will advance until the last poster gives up, But we will fall! we will prevail.

Future games will be defined by the actions of this coming battle developers will think twice before they rush an ending, Stand  fast  stand  strong stand together do not break the  line!


(maybe a bit melodramatic  lol and i have nothing but  respect for bioware and the developers but also disappointment over the endings, unless this is changed i am done with bioware products.

meodrama rocks.  love that speech.

Hold the line


One of my favorite scenes of the new  game surprisngly i only had 2 typos in it i had to go back and edit lol

Modifié par Ghaleon80, 17 mars 2012 - 06:51 .


#40611
Necrotron

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Just checking in again to see our status and look for updates.

Nothing new. Still holding the line!

#40612
IxSITHxI

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I really like Forbes a lot. Here's a new article. www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/17/former-bioware-designer-brent-knowles-on-day-one-dlc-and-the-mass-effect-of-public-relations/

Hold the Line on St. Paddy's Day!!

The Outcast

#40613
Ffelan

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Good read from the PR thread.
*******************************************

redknight38 wrote:
So I am about to get a PhD in military history, with a specialty on insurgencies and conflict management. I'm not active military but what the hell. The gentleman in active duty was right-- this movement needs to get organized. Bioware has been getting better at playing by the PR handbook because they're getting a handle on things. Therefore they are in for the long haul and therefore people here have to be as well. That means getting organized and having consistent, coherent, simple and clear tactics and messaging. The Tea Party and the Occuppy movements both had to do that, hence their staying power after initial passionate outbursts.

How do insurgencies or even COIN ops operate?

1) Get a message out. So this Retake movement has to get a message out. Some suggestions have been offered: google bombing and review bombing. I have a lot of qualms about the latter because it has the potential to irreparably drive down the reviews to the point of not being able to repair it. Later, when this movement has become more articulated, you might be able to promise to attempt to drive that review rating up, however.

Either way, find a way to spread this on the Internet and build awareness for it. Have simple talking points and try to agree on them.

I suggest remaining polite and even being a little positive. You like ME, you don't hate Bioware. You just want changes. That'll build a sympathetic message because a key point in COIN and insurgencies is winning over neutrals.

2) Repeat the message as often as you can. Self-explanatory. However, it can't just be "I hate the ending" or "hold the line." You'll have to keep repeating your simple, bullet-pointed list of complaints. Groups like the IRA don't repeat long treatises (as I've been seeing on the boards) on their complaints. Nobody will read that. Keep it simple and keep it consistent.

That clearly means people on this forum will have to come to an agreement of the basic points they all agree with. The majority of resistance movements have internal problems and divisions that are often more important than external ones. The IRA, the VC, Mao, they all killed as many or more of their own members as their enemies. Failed insurgencies like the Philippine NPA did so to the detriment of their mission.

Incidentally, that means that instead of saying "bump" or "hold the line" or "I support this thread" you might want to say "don't play SP or MP" in trying to bump it. Something constructive. The message.

3) Disrupt the enemy's internal cohesion. Attacking Bioware people is highly counter-productive so no ambushing or isolating. These people are just doing their jobs and I sincerely doubt they're maliciously laughing at your discontent. Neither are they having money fights at your expense. Come on people, this is the gaming industry, not Goldman Sachs. These people are not rolling in it.

They try to humanize themselves to win your sympathy. DO THE SAME. Stop attacking Casey Hudson and the like but instead tell them you love the game, you always liked his writing and you always had faith in him. This will be easier because it's essentially true. Tell them you don't hate them, that you'll go back to the fold if they meet your demands.

What you are trying to do is build sympathy and win defectors. The biggest prize for an insurgency movement are defectors, especially high profile ones. In the case of this Retake thing, you want to do it so that during their meetings there will be someone advocating for you. Hopefully more than one someone. Incidentally, this might involve having to accept paid ending DLC. Much earlier in this thread I opined why it would have to be paid: remember, they claim the game is done. The story is finished to their satisfaction. Any ending DLC they release they can legitimately (i.e. in court) claim as bonus. You don't need to get it.

Be careful of them trying to do the same. They'll try to win you over so someone here will suddenly be advocating for them. Hence the skepticism regarding Mr. Lee. He came here and suddenly everybody was telling others to back off, the Bioware guys had a long week. This is true, and don't be rude to him. However, nobody was, but people were losing their skepticism and resolve.

4) Disrupt the enemy logistics which means disrupting sales. Since you can't meet them head-on, this is one thing you can do. However, threatening to boycott products not yet made is absolutely meaningless. Newsflash, if you threaten not to buy something a company has not yet made, what will they do? Not make them. Bioware hasn't lost money on products not yet made because they haven't sunk resources into making them and marketing them. If you threaten not to buy it, they will find another product, one which does not cater to you. The next Bioware game could therefore very well be a multiplayer game or a shooter. That being said, threatening to boycott Bioware in the future is not a bad idea since AGTHunter noted that it turned you into cautious consumers. You just have to do more.

However, they have ME3 now. I can guarantee you the sales of ME3 and its future content are part of their current budget plan and profit projection. It's part of their logistics. Disrupt that and you are actually making a message regarding their money.

You don't need to do anything dramatic but it might be hard. Too hard. Not playing SP and MP is honestly the best way to do it-- they track your playtime so by not playing you are telling them you are unhappy with the current product and will therefore not buy future DLC or anything of the sort. Since they alread have money sunk into your product, one likely response from Bioware is to attempt to find ways of luring you back since that would be easier than making an entirely new game. If you keep emphasizing you would love to be lured back if they meet your demands, even better. Remember that video games are actually cheaper than you think and a lot of their profitability comes from DLC so you do hold some leverage here.

Discouraging others from buying it works as well.

Not playing MP seems a no go since too many people want to. So be it-- it's their right and they're being smart consumers still. They paid for it, why not enjoy it? Don't criticize them for it. Someone suggested continuing the protest on MP and if it is possible change your name to reflect Retake or Hold the Line. Add it to your online avatar's name. I don't know if that's possible.

Basically-- if you kids are serious about this, remember a) this won't be easy and it'll take a while, B) there will be no clear win, insurgencies or COIN ops don't end cleanly, c) there is risk. There is always risk and you'll have to accept that. The biggest risk is that Bioware might simply abandon you and ME3. Another is that you might damage Bioware to the point that it can't make its games. I don't like that, you don't like that and it's why a lot of "haters" are mad at you. They have good cause, but that's beside your point.

One last cynical thing you can offer Bioware: if they meet your demands and you are happy... well you can essentially offer this online advocacy network to them. Most companies would give their right arms to have a passionate, far-reaching and dedicated group of people pushing their products for free.

So good luck to you kids.

************************************

Something to think about.

#40614
Neezoy

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Aiden_Cora wrote...

Greetings everyone!
Can anyone tell me what Angry Joe thinks about the endings? I have a problem with his new player, my PC has 3 browsers installed and none can play that Springboard crap. I'll be grateful for any info.

http://thatguywithth...s-mass-effect-3



He was pretty upset with the ending. And didn't like the journal system at all which he spent a lot of time raving over (in a fun way). Overall he liked the game and gave it 8/10. At least that's what I can remember.

EDIT: Oh, and he didn't like the new characters Vega or the Javik. He found them pretty boring. And he labelled Shepard as the nosiest person ever for listening in to everyone's conversations on the citadel :D

Modifié par Neezoy, 17 mars 2012 - 06:57 .


#40615
IxSITHxI

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tompuddefoot wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

^^^^^^Do as the man says ^^^^^^


WE WILL HOLD THE LINE!

#40616
TamiBx

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Doppelgaenger wrote...

TamiBx wrote...

 I want to post on that thread where Bioware is asking us what we want them to fix, but I can't bring myself to do it. There are so many things they can do with the ending to fix that I'm not sure what to say. I kind of want them to look at all the potential endings and choose it for themselves. It can't be hard; they wrote a 95% awesome game. They just ruined 5% of it. 


Then explain what you liked in the first 95% of the game and ask them to to an ending in line with what you liked?


See, that's the problem: I don't mind what they come up with as long as it is better than the current ending. I don't think it can get worse than the current one, honestly. So that's pretty much what I said. I also said that as long as they explain everything, give us an epilogue, and give us the option to save Shepard (not a 5sec N7 suit breathing scene), I'm fine with it. 

#40617
Darth Taurus

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Happy St. Patrick day to you guys! If any of you find a golden pot, please give it to Child's Play.

Hold the line people!

#40618
fade2black2610

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Rubmifer wrote...

My thoughts go out to Fabrice Muamba, player of Bolton, who suddenly collapsed on the football field after having a heart attack, and is still fighting for his life.

Puts everything a bit in perspective. 


I completely agree. I hope he pulls through. 

#40619
TheSteelArcher

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IxSITHxI wrote...

tompuddefoot wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

^^^^^^Do as the man says ^^^^^^


WE WILL HOLD THE LINE!


I was genuinely inspired by this video. Thank you for bringing me back to a time when Mass Effect was perfect. :D

#40620
Aiden_Cora

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Neezoy wrote...

Aiden_Cora wrote...

Greetings everyone!
Can anyone tell me what Angry Joe thinks about the endings? I have a problem with his new player, my PC has 3 browsers installed and none can play that Springboard crap. I'll be grateful for any info.

http://thatguywithth...s-mass-effect-3



He was pretty upset with the ending. And didn't like the journal system at all which he spent a lot of time raving over (in a fun way). Overall he liked the game and gave it 8/10. At least that's what I can remember.

Thank you. I appreciate the answer. Be well.

#40621
WvStolzing

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A note to 'silent lurkers': Start posting your ideas!

#40622
satrack

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I will hold the line!

#40623
Fulgrim88

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Ffelan wrote...

Good read from the PR thread.
*******************************************

redknight38 wrote:
So I am about to get a PhD in military history, with a specialty on insurgencies and conflict management. I'm not active military but what the hell. The gentleman in active duty was right-- this movement needs to get organized. Bioware has been getting better at playing by the PR handbook because they're getting a handle on things. Therefore they are in for the long haul and therefore people here have to be as well. That means getting organized and having consistent, coherent, simple and clear tactics and messaging. The Tea Party and the Occuppy movements both had to do that, hence their staying power after initial passionate outbursts.

How do insurgencies or even COIN ops operate?

1) Get a message out. So this Retake movement has to get a message out. Some suggestions have been offered: google bombing and review bombing. I have a lot of qualms about the latter because it has the potential to irreparably drive down the reviews to the point of not being able to repair it. Later, when this movement has become more articulated, you might be able to promise to attempt to drive that review rating up, however.

Either way, find a way to spread this on the Internet and build awareness for it. Have simple talking points and try to agree on them.

I suggest remaining polite and even being a little positive. You like ME, you don't hate Bioware. You just want changes. That'll build a sympathetic message because a key point in COIN and insurgencies is winning over neutrals.

2) Repeat the message as often as you can. Self-explanatory. However, it can't just be "I hate the ending" or "hold the line." You'll have to keep repeating your simple, bullet-pointed list of complaints. Groups like the IRA don't repeat long treatises (as I've been seeing on the boards) on their complaints. Nobody will read that. Keep it simple and keep it consistent.

That clearly means people on this forum will have to come to an agreement of the basic points they all agree with. The majority of resistance movements have internal problems and divisions that are often more important than external ones. The IRA, the VC, Mao, they all killed as many or more of their own members as their enemies. Failed insurgencies like the Philippine NPA did so to the detriment of their mission.

Incidentally, that means that instead of saying "bump" or "hold the line" or "I support this thread" you might want to say "don't play SP or MP" in trying to bump it. Something constructive. The message.

3) Disrupt the enemy's internal cohesion. Attacking Bioware people is highly counter-productive so no ambushing or isolating. These people are just doing their jobs and I sincerely doubt they're maliciously laughing at your discontent. Neither are they having money fights at your expense. Come on people, this is the gaming industry, not Goldman Sachs. These people are not rolling in it.

They try to humanize themselves to win your sympathy. DO THE SAME. Stop attacking Casey Hudson and the like but instead tell them you love the game, you always liked his writing and you always had faith in him. This will be easier because it's essentially true. Tell them you don't hate them, that you'll go back to the fold if they meet your demands.

What you are trying to do is build sympathy and win defectors. The biggest prize for an insurgency movement are defectors, especially high profile ones. In the case of this Retake thing, you want to do it so that during their meetings there will be someone advocating for you. Hopefully more than one someone. Incidentally, this might involve having to accept paid ending DLC. Much earlier in this thread I opined why it would have to be paid: remember, they claim the game is done. The story is finished to their satisfaction. Any ending DLC they release they can legitimately (i.e. in court) claim as bonus. You don't need to get it.

Be careful of them trying to do the same. They'll try to win you over so someone here will suddenly be advocating for them. Hence the skepticism regarding Mr. Lee. He came here and suddenly everybody was telling others to back off, the Bioware guys had a long week. This is true, and don't be rude to him. However, nobody was, but people were losing their skepticism and resolve.

4) Disrupt the enemy logistics which means disrupting sales. Since you can't meet them head-on, this is one thing you can do. However, threatening to boycott products not yet made is absolutely meaningless. Newsflash, if you threaten not to buy something a company has not yet made, what will they do? Not make them. Bioware hasn't lost money on products not yet made because they haven't sunk resources into making them and marketing them. If you threaten not to buy it, they will find another product, one which does not cater to you. The next Bioware game could therefore very well be a multiplayer game or a shooter. That being said, threatening to boycott Bioware in the future is not a bad idea since AGTHunter noted that it turned you into cautious consumers. You just have to do more.

However, they have ME3 now. I can guarantee you the sales of ME3 and its future content are part of their current budget plan and profit projection. It's part of their logistics. Disrupt that and you are actually making a message regarding their money.

You don't need to do anything dramatic but it might be hard. Too hard. Not playing SP and MP is honestly the best way to do it-- they track your playtime so by not playing you are telling them you are unhappy with the current product and will therefore not buy future DLC or anything of the sort. Since they alread have money sunk into your product, one likely response from Bioware is to attempt to find ways of luring you back since that would be easier than making an entirely new game. If you keep emphasizing you would love to be lured back if they meet your demands, even better. Remember that video games are actually cheaper than you think and a lot of their profitability comes from DLC so you do hold some leverage here.

Discouraging others from buying it works as well.

Not playing MP seems a no go since too many people want to. So be it-- it's their right and they're being smart consumers still. They paid for it, why not enjoy it? Don't criticize them for it. Someone suggested continuing the protest on MP and if it is possible change your name to reflect Retake or Hold the Line. Add it to your online avatar's name. I don't know if that's possible.

Basically-- if you kids are serious about this, remember a) this won't be easy and it'll take a while, B) there will be no clear win, insurgencies or COIN ops don't end cleanly, c) there is risk. There is always risk and you'll have to accept that. The biggest risk is that Bioware might simply abandon you and ME3. Another is that you might damage Bioware to the point that it can't make its games. I don't like that, you don't like that and it's why a lot of "haters" are mad at you. They have good cause, but that's beside your point.

One last cynical thing you can offer Bioware: if they meet your demands and you are happy... well you can essentially offer this online advocacy network to them. Most companies would give their right arms to have a passionate, far-reaching and dedicated group of people pushing their products for free.

So good luck to you kids.

************************************

Something to think about.


I'd say this is too important to get buried in this thread within the next 10minutes.

If you will, create a new thread, like the one with atghunters arguments.
Or post it at the thread of the Retake Movement. It doesn't move quite as fast as this one.

Modifié par Fulgrim88, 17 mars 2012 - 06:59 .


#40624
Pairikas

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www.youtube.com/watch

I really want to know that.

#40625
TamiBx

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 My mom just sent me the picture she took of me inside of GameStop getting my ME3(I didn't know she was taking it, obviously). I look so excited and happy that it's sad. Little did I know what was going to happen...:crying: