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So we can't get the ending we want after all?


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#40651
TerrifiedKiz

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Koobarex wrote...

Marauder Shields: Shepard's Last Foe
EPISODE 4: "The DNA Fiasco"

Image IPB

Open full version here: http://i.imgur.com/59whH.jpg

If you have any problems viewing the full version, find it at my DA profile, here: http://koobismo.deviantart.com (be sure to comment or say "hi" :)).

Previous episodes:
Episode 1: http://i40.tinypic.com/34eouuu.jpg
Episode 2: http://i.imgur.com/SU6Lq.jpg
Episode 3: http://i.imgur.com/eBrxF.jpg 
Also available on: http://koobismo.deviantart.com

HOLD THE LINE!



awww, i adore you guys for these comics <3 HOLD THE LINE!

#40652
Dj14365

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Iucounou wrote...

I'd rather they just came out and told us what, if anything, they had planned before this all blew up in their faces. If there was some plan, it has surely backfired badly for them.

The best they can do is to come clean about it and explain their thinking, not hide behind PR guru's (the same ones, probably, that got them into this mess in the first place.)

The longer it drags on, the worse things will get.

Those pr gurus think that if they keep their heads down this will go away. They don't understand the gravity of the situation. Hold the line until the true end.

#40653
Generic Name

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TheBull wrote...
Shiny ehh??  LETS BE BAD GUYS:bandit:


I aim to misbehave. In a perfectly civil manner.

#40654
Iucounou

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Cybermortis wrote...

If there is truth to, ahem, 'The Truth' I'd expect them to tell us it exists even if it is not ready for release for a few more weeks.


That's all I want from them really. Honesty. Either admit they messed up and did a crappy ending. Or tell us it was all part of their grand design and they hadn't expected us to react this badly.

Of course, charging for that DLC will be like offering a lollipop to a child and then pulling it out of its reach, only to tell it to "dance" if it wants it.

They are in PR hell right now. Only honesty will have any hope of getting them out of it.

#40655
ElMuchu

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Cybermortis wrote...

If Bioware did have an ending in the wings, as the rumours about 'The Truth' DLC claim, then I'd expect them to give a statement to that effect next week. The reason is that regardless of their initial reasons for not saying anything, things have moved too quickly and done FAR to much damage for them to remain quiet. (The rumours about 'The Truth' seem to indicate they intended to either release or announce it at PAX on the 6th April - and there is no way they can stall for that length of time).

If there is truth to, ahem, 'The Truth' I'd expect them to tell us it exists even if it is not ready for release for a few more weeks.

If they don't have such a DLC in the works expect attempts to stall, inflame the players so we look bad and offers of something 'shiny' to distract us. If we continue to hold, as we should and as we are, and don't allow them to deflect or avoid the issue. Then they will have no option but to make a call on if they should make such a DLC. As I noted before, all the information available to us AND comments from those who've been on Bioware's position at some point indicate that if we hold fast Bioware/EA will have no other practical option but to do what we have been asking them to do. The alternative would cost them far more than any DLC in the long run.

Hold the line.

Yep: hold the line!

#40656
Aiden_Cora

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zsom wrote...

Rubmifer wrote...

I know people requested this in high res:

http://wallbase.cc/wallpaper/1772397

My new current desktop :)


Eeemergeeency iiiinduction port!

Mordin... :(

#40657
Cybermortis

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Dj14365 wrote...

Iucounou wrote...

I'd rather they just came out and told us what, if anything, they had planned before this all blew up in their faces. If there was some plan, it has surely backfired badly for them.

The best they can do is to come clean about it and explain their thinking, not hide behind PR guru's (the same ones, probably, that got them into this mess in the first place.)

The longer it drags on, the worse things will get.

Those pr gurus think that if they keep their heads down this will go away. They don't understand the gravity of the situation. Hold the line until the true end.


Well, it will go away...as will Bioware's customer base, reputation and viability as a company.

#40658
Grashnin

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Another "Silent Lurker" here just trying to keep up with the thread more than anything right now, have to say, Marauder Shields and this thread have possibly been the couple of things that have kept me sane over the past few days, and I'm here to hold the line :)

#40659
Militarized

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KRAETZNER wrote...

Judging by Casey Hudson's statements pre-release, they knew what fans wanted. So either they are complete fools, or they have some reason to lie, and do the opposite of what they said they would. What it is they have planned, I do not know.


Agreed. I really think they just tried to go for a deep message that fit the somber mood but... they forgot what kind of story they were telling? Or just didn't hit the right cues from the beginning? If this is how they envisioned Mass Effect ending they screwed up in their narrative from the begining I think instead of the end. But if that's true, their screw up is the best one ever because it's so amazing :D. hahaha 

#40660
TheBull

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Generic Name wrote...

TheBull wrote...
Shiny ehh??  LETS BE BAD GUYS:bandit:


I aim to misbehave. In a perfectly civil manner.


Browncoats Bayonett brigade Unite!!

THEY CAN'T TAKE THE END FROM US
I DON'T CARE WE ARE STILL FREE

#40661
Mandemon

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WvStolzing wrote...

A note to 'silent lurkers': Start posting your ideas!


But but... you have already posted them!

Are you my split personalities?

#40662
Cybermortis

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Grashnin wrote...

Another "Silent Lurker" here just trying to keep up with the thread more than anything right now, have to say, Marauder Shields and this thread have possibly been the couple of things that have kept me sane over the past few days, and I'm here to hold the line :)


Always happy to have another body on the line.

PS - You want to insert [img ] [/img ] tags around your sig - without the space between the g and ]

#40663
silencemayday

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Generic Name wrote...

TheBull wrote...
Shiny ehh??  LETS BE BAD GUYS:bandit:


I aim to misbehave. In a perfectly civil manner.


or we could just..  shoot 'em.
politely. 

#40664
Pyewacket

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Esoretal wrote...

Koobarex wrote...

Marauder Shields: Shepard's Last Foe
EPISODE 4: "The DNA Fiasco"

Image IPB

Open full version here: http://i.imgur.com/59whH.jpg

If you have any problems viewing the full version, find it at my DA profile, here: http://koobismo.deviantart.com (be sure to comment or say "hi" :)).

Previous episodes:
Episode 1: http://i40.tinypic.com/34eouuu.jpg
Episode 2: http://i.imgur.com/SU6Lq.jpg
Episode 3: http://i.imgur.com/eBrxF.jpg 
Also available on: http://koobismo.deviantart.com

HOLD THE LINE!


Ahahahaha. I heart you.


<3

#40665
Bruinbear

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Those MS cartoons are amazing! Thank you!

#40666
KHReborn

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Generic Name wrote...

TheBull wrote...
Shiny ehh??  LETS BE BAD GUYS:bandit:


I aim to misbehave. In a perfectly civil manner.


Like a Sir!

#40667
Hussain_2012

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Koobarex wrote...

Marauder Shields: Shepard's Last Foe
EPISODE 4: "The DNA Fiasco"

Image IPB

Open full version here: http://i.imgur.com/59whH.jpg

If you have any problems viewing the full version, find it at my DA profile, here: http://koobismo.deviantart.com (be sure to comment or say "hi" :)).

Previous episodes:
Episode 1: http://i40.tinypic.com/34eouuu.jpg
Episode 2: http://i.imgur.com/SU6Lq.jpg
Episode 3: http://i.imgur.com/eBrxF.jpg 
Also available on: http://koobismo.deviantart.com

HOLD THE LINE!



Nice! I like it! 

#40668
zephyrus92

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Fulgrim88 wrote...

Ffelan wrote...

Good read from the PR thread.
*******************************************

redknight38 wrote:
So I am about to get a PhD in military history, with a specialty on insurgencies and conflict management. I'm not active military but what the hell. The gentleman in active duty was right-- this movement needs to get organized. Bioware has been getting better at playing by the PR handbook because they're getting a handle on things. Therefore they are in for the long haul and therefore people here have to be as well. That means getting organized and having consistent, coherent, simple and clear tactics and messaging. The Tea Party and the Occuppy movements both had to do that, hence their staying power after initial passionate outbursts.

How do insurgencies or even COIN ops operate?

1) Get a message out. So this Retake movement has to get a message out. Some suggestions have been offered: google bombing and review bombing. I have a lot of qualms about the latter because it has the potential to irreparably drive down the reviews to the point of not being able to repair it. Later, when this movement has become more articulated, you might be able to promise to attempt to drive that review rating up, however.

Either way, find a way to spread this on the Internet and build awareness for it. Have simple talking points and try to agree on them.

I suggest remaining polite and even being a little positive. You like ME, you don't hate Bioware. You just want changes. That'll build a sympathetic message because a key point in COIN and insurgencies is winning over neutrals.

2) Repeat the message as often as you can. Self-explanatory. However, it can't just be "I hate the ending" or "hold the line." You'll have to keep repeating your simple, bullet-pointed list of complaints. Groups like the IRA don't repeat long treatises (as I've been seeing on the boards) on their complaints. Nobody will read that. Keep it simple and keep it consistent.

That clearly means people on this forum will have to come to an agreement of the basic points they all agree with. The majority of resistance movements have internal problems and divisions that are often more important than external ones. The IRA, the VC, Mao, they all killed as many or more of their own members as their enemies. Failed insurgencies like the Philippine NPA did so to the detriment of their mission.

Incidentally, that means that instead of saying "bump" or "hold the line" or "I support this thread" you might want to say "don't play SP or MP" in trying to bump it. Something constructive. The message.

3) Disrupt the enemy's internal cohesion. Attacking Bioware people is highly counter-productive so no ambushing or isolating. These people are just doing their jobs and I sincerely doubt they're maliciously laughing at your discontent. Neither are they having money fights at your expense. Come on people, this is the gaming industry, not Goldman Sachs. These people are not rolling in it.

They try to humanize themselves to win your sympathy. DO THE SAME. Stop attacking Casey Hudson and the like but instead tell them you love the game, you always liked his writing and you always had faith in him. This will be easier because it's essentially true. Tell them you don't hate them, that you'll go back to the fold if they meet your demands.

What you are trying to do is build sympathy and win defectors. The biggest prize for an insurgency movement are defectors, especially high profile ones. In the case of this Retake thing, you want to do it so that during their meetings there will be someone advocating for you. Hopefully more than one someone. Incidentally, this might involve having to accept paid ending DLC. Much earlier in this thread I opined why it would have to be paid: remember, they claim the game is done. The story is finished to their satisfaction. Any ending DLC they release they can legitimately (i.e. in court) claim as bonus. You don't need to get it.

Be careful of them trying to do the same. They'll try to win you over so someone here will suddenly be advocating for them. Hence the skepticism regarding Mr. Lee. He came here and suddenly everybody was telling others to back off, the Bioware guys had a long week. This is true, and don't be rude to him. However, nobody was, but people were losing their skepticism and resolve.

4) Disrupt the enemy logistics which means disrupting sales. Since you can't meet them head-on, this is one thing you can do. However, threatening to boycott products not yet made is absolutely meaningless. Newsflash, if you threaten not to buy something a company has not yet made, what will they do? Not make them. Bioware hasn't lost money on products not yet made because they haven't sunk resources into making them and marketing them. If you threaten not to buy it, they will find another product, one which does not cater to you. The next Bioware game could therefore very well be a multiplayer game or a shooter. That being said, threatening to boycott Bioware in the future is not a bad idea since AGTHunter noted that it turned you into cautious consumers. You just have to do more.

However, they have ME3 now. I can guarantee you the sales of ME3 and its future content are part of their current budget plan and profit projection. It's part of their logistics. Disrupt that and you are actually making a message regarding their money.

You don't need to do anything dramatic but it might be hard. Too hard. Not playing SP and MP is honestly the best way to do it-- they track your playtime so by not playing you are telling them you are unhappy with the current product and will therefore not buy future DLC or anything of the sort. Since they alread have money sunk into your product, one likely response from Bioware is to attempt to find ways of luring you back since that would be easier than making an entirely new game. If you keep emphasizing you would love to be lured back if they meet your demands, even better. Remember that video games are actually cheaper than you think and a lot of their profitability comes from DLC so you do hold some leverage here.

Discouraging others from buying it works as well.

Not playing MP seems a no go since too many people want to. So be it-- it's their right and they're being smart consumers still. They paid for it, why not enjoy it? Don't criticize them for it. Someone suggested continuing the protest on MP and if it is possible change your name to reflect Retake or Hold the Line. Add it to your online avatar's name. I don't know if that's possible.

Basically-- if you kids are serious about this, remember a) this won't be easy and it'll take a while, B) there will be no clear win, insurgencies or COIN ops don't end cleanly, c) there is risk. There is always risk and you'll have to accept that. The biggest risk is that Bioware might simply abandon you and ME3. Another is that you might damage Bioware to the point that it can't make its games. I don't like that, you don't like that and it's why a lot of "haters" are mad at you. They have good cause, but that's beside your point.

One last cynical thing you can offer Bioware: if they meet your demands and you are happy... well you can essentially offer this online advocacy network to them. Most companies would give their right arms to have a passionate, far-reaching and dedicated group of people pushing their products for free.

So good luck to you kids.

************************************

Something to think about.


I'd say this is too important to get buried in this thread within the next 10minutes.

If you will, create a new thread, like the one with atghunters arguments.
Or post it at the thread of the Retake Movement. It doesn't move quite as fast as this one.


I think we need to take what Ffelan said to heart.

As much as posting 'hold the line' makes us feel better and gives us a morale boost it won't win this battle. Organization is essential since I believe we'll be in this for the long haul. If BioWare doesn't have something up their sleeve then we'll likely have to keep pushing this for months before we get what we want (new endings) or at least get an explanation as to why we got the drivel we did. We need some sort of concise message, something that the media can put in their article titles when they write about us, something other than just: 'we don't like the ending' which is honestly what I think a lot of people are getting out of this when its so much more.

I know how hard it is to express everything in a sentence or two without sounding whiny. I mean I talked to my dad this morning before I put my letter in the mailbox and it probably took 5 minutes of me talking to fully get my point across. But we need this, we need something to show what we're all about without someone having to read a whole essay. We need something that we can spread around the internet, something that will stick in people's minds (even more than this ending did) and something that will bring in the support of the masses.

I'm not the most eloquent with my writing so I don't think I'm the one to do this but I've seen many capable writers and thinkers in this thread alone. Together we can come up with something, something to keep us united through thick and thin. I don't want this movement to just dissipate, we've accomplished so much already.

#40669
Hunter_Wolf

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Bruinbear wrote...

I would be of two minds here.  Financially I would feel violated (if they charged for the ending).  Emotionally I would be satisfied by a rich, well thought out ending.  After the rollercoaster of emotions this week, Imwould settle for being emotionally satisfied! Lol

Still holding the line!


This bugs me as well, the repercausions could be quite bad. But at this point, because the ending is so bad, I don't know what's the greater evil. 

Ideally if it were free, the fans would feel more appreciated. 


However, for me there was a lot of hope for The Arrival and watching that kind of turn dull just shows that there'd be a lot of expectations in  this DLC if they were to design it. It's a tricky subject.
 

#40670
Benth08x

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Love the Harbinger HOOOONK.

#40671
Computim

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CNN tv just had an amazing piece I caught on my xm radio in the car. They basically are saying bioware is likely to release an update to fix the ending!!!! :D

#40672
TheBull

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silencemayday wrote...

Generic Name wrote...

TheBull wrote...
Shiny ehh??  LETS BE BAD GUYS:bandit:


I aim to misbehave. In a perfectly civil manner.


or we could just..  shoot 'em.
politely. 


Can we use something that doesn't involve violence,
or ist this the wrong crowdB)

#40673
Alamandorious

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I am pleased to say we are less than $1300 away from $60,000 on the charity. Awesome work, people, and let's keep it up. This is a spectacular achievement for what essentially ammounts to, in the eyes of big business, certain Media outlets, and a lot of the public as 'raging, entitled gamers'.

We are also staying civil and polite, and making our concerns heard...this is absolutely the correct way to go about this. We're keeping this thread as clean of things that would get it closed up as possible; there's slip ups every now and then, but not enough to cause concern.

We are setting a positive example as to what gamers stand for, and how these things should be done.

Good work everyone, good work.

Hold the line!

#40674
WvStolzing

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Dj14365 wrote...

Those pr gurus think that if they keep their heads down this will go away. They don't understand the gravity of the situation. Hold the line until the true end.


Well, we have our own PR experts at this point; so we have a bit more insight into the other party's tactics.

ps. The comics are great as always!

pps. Silent lurkers! START POSTING! Make your voices heard!

#40675
KaiserinKai

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Computim wrote...

CNN tv just had an amazing piece I caught on my xm radio in the car. They basically are saying bioware is likely to release an update to fix the ending!!!! :D


Please let this be true *crosses fingers*.