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So we can't get the ending we want after all?


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#40901
LittleDeadGirl

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AtlasMickey wrote...

I'm sorry you guys are so upset... I don't mean that in a patronizing way because I really wish everyone could be as happy and satisfied with the ending as I am. I love Mass Effect, start-to-finish, and I'd think that if there's any place to express that love and share it, it'd be in a fan forum. Where did all the fans go? I know you're going to say that it's because you're fans that you're demanding a better ending, but I'm here to say that it couldn't have ended any other way



I am a fan and I'm expressing my opinions and thoughts both on the whole game and the ending. I am happy you enjoyed the ending. That is your opinion on the matter and you have every right to it. In my opinion the synthesis ending is not only impossible from a logical stand point but also insulting from a philosophic one. It implies we can only get along if we are all the same.

What is most insulting is the fact Shepard could not have even gotten to that possible ending without the universe holding as much diversity as it did and the final solution is killing that diversity. If that's your happy ending so be it. My happy ending is one that makes logical sense and one that perpetuates the themes enforced throughout the past three games.

#40902
Kloborgg711

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CitizenSnips28 wrote...

Bah filing that FTC complaint was a major blunder. Its going to seriously set us back and color the perception of us as unreasonable weirdos.


No one is reponsible for the actions of anyone but themself.

#40903
BuddhaGeek

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 Just got back from the post office and a trip to the grocery store to get Popsicles.  Popsicles make everything in life seem cheerful<3!

Just wanted to repost my letter to Bioware:

Bioware,
As you may know, there is a large movement underfoot about the handling (or rather, mishandling) of Mass Effect 3 and it's ending. Gamers, infamous for fighting amongst eachother have come together at last to protest.  They have stood together, forming petitions, raising over $50,000 for charity, and have (with the exception of a few), responded to their outrage in a calm, positive manner only to be dismissed by you and EA, insulted by your staff, and led around with misdirection and faint promises.

I played your games since Baldur's Gate. I bought your DLC packs, your collector's editions. I defended Dragon Age 2 despite all the criticism.  And I loved Mass Effect to the point where it was, by far, my favorite work of fiction in ANY MEDIUM.  And now, I feel betrayed.  I feel as if the people I put so much faith in, turned their backs on me.  I feel as if my trust in you was misplaced.  And I am not alone.

It is easy to dismiss gamers.  We do not always have the greatest track record with "open and calm" discussion.  We do not always have grounds for our discourse.  It is easy to overlook us based off of the rash and offensive actions of a handful of people.  But, please, I implore you, do not dismiss this.  This movement could mean a new age for gamers and game companies. It shows that we can be civil, that we can be heard, and that our anger can be channeled into something unifying and good.

For me, this isn't just about the endings anymore. We don't necessarily want the ending to be fluffy or in any way saccharine. A large complaint is simply that it not only provides no closure, but that in the context of everything we have learned about the game's universe, its characters, is nonsensical.    In 2009, in response to widespread dissatisfaction with the final moments of Fallout 3, Bethesda Softworks released a DLC known as "Broken Steel", which presented itself as a sort of extended epilogue, allowing players to gain some closure.  It ended up being one of the more popular DLCs of the entire game and gave the players not only a sense of finality, but a sense of relief that their gaming companies had not abandoned them and that they were being listened to.

We are asking that you give us the same measure of hope.

What has been for the last half-decade was an intriguing, emotional story that was shaped based off of our choices. It is one of the main selling points of the entire franchise: "All your actions have consequences". We were even told that the endings would reflect that, even going so far to say that there would be as many as SIXTEEN endings, all vastly different from the others and that it would not be "Choice A, B, and C". What we received was exactly that. All of our actions that we had devoted 120+ hours to ultimately meant nothing and ended with more questions than answers and more plotholes made in the final ten minutes than the entire series combined. 

The gamers who dislike the endings are not making their voices heard without reason. They (myself included) feel betrayed because we have invested our time and our money into something only to have our faith shattered and our dismay spat on. 

The idea of "entitlement" is a sentiment that seems to be specifically oriented around the gamer community. It's an idea that says that we are complaining about something we have no rights to, that we have no personal stake in the outcome of games we love and have devoted our time to purely because we were not part of its development. But, we are. It's a symbiotic relationship, one where they develop, we play, we love, and we invest our money and our time so that they may continue to develop and we can continue to play. To have Bioware take a "It's X, love it or get out" is a betrayal and an insult and one that is being countered. 

So I ask you. No, I beg of you, please do not brush us off. Please do not dismiss our claims as "entitlement" and "nerdrage".  Have you heard of the idea of "Corporate Personhood"? If it is to be believed and EA/Bioware is a person with rights, behaviours, and actions, then as a person, is it not then logical that you should listen to and respect those who have supported you?

Holding the line,
ZF

Modifié par BuddhaGeek, 17 mars 2012 - 08:57 .


#40904
Teleraine

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[quote]Tyranniac wrote...

[quote]unclee wrote...

[quote]Teleraine wrote...

[/quote]

Thats what I was aiming at even I dont expect a galactic war to end with puppys and roses. I just want the chance to be with the LI in the end to have things explained, to actually maybe ya know win, not vaporised in some pointless nonsensical plothole.:police:

#40905
Victia

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ArmyKnifeX wrote...

 Every few pages this needs to be resposted.

http://social.biowar...ndex/10084349/1 

Using military jargon, that post is tantamount to all our intel on the enemy's movements and strategies. Without it, we don't stand a chance against their superior tactics.Crowds can be surprisingly easy to control - educated crowds are far, far more difficult to control, or even contain. We have the blitzkrieg on our side - now we need to exercise our combined might. Urge everyone who's concerned about the ending to stop playing ME3, or even the other ME games. I was doing an ME2 playthrough myself but, since it requires an EA login to access my DLC content, I'm going to abandon it until this is resolved. I will show them with the choice of where I spend my free time just how I feel about ME3 and its ending. They will be able to see this.

Don't give in to their faux olive branches. Don't let them derail the conversations. Be civil, but remain on topic. We're not just fighting a war, people, we're changing the goddamn PR game. New PR rules are going to have to be written. But for now, we, the masses, the consumers, the intelligent and mature individuals engaging in a virtuous pursuit, have the upper hand. Don't let them take it from us in a smarmy handshake.



I hadnt seen this before so thanks for (re)posting! Very interesting read and very insightful! Just another reason to keep  holding the line

#40906
Fulgrim88

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Just reposting this for your enjoyment ;)

My favorite backhanded slap to weak plot devices on the Citadel

Modifié par Fulgrim88, 17 mars 2012 - 08:55 .


#40907
bustyhog

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just got word.....god is on our side

#40908
blackeyes677

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Misterdde45000 wrote...

Cybermortis wrote...

Someone made the point that we need to outline exactly what it is we are asking for, beyond 'a changed ending'.

Here goes *gulp*

We want...Shepard to live, Shepard to die. Shepard to ride off into the sunset with his friends, to retire with the love of his life, to become the hero of the ages or to be mourned for making the ultimate sacrifice. We want to see the effects of our decisions through 3 games, which races rose and which fell. We want to know if our companions fade into obscurity or rise to greatness.

We want closure, we want sense we want to be able to make these choices based on all three games.

We want the ending we were told we would get.


We just want them to keep they words. A DAO end-like would be fine by me as long as it reflect what i've done in the 3 games.


DAO had a great ending; it had closure.  However, I do not know if it would fit in terms of the tiology though.  I feel like there needs to be a lot more varierty in the type of endings reflecting your choices thoughout the series.  When I was told 16 ending, I expected everything ranging from herioric sacrifice to happily ever after to utter defeat.  And everything in between.

#40909
Wearyanna

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danvla wrote...

Stealth frigate Tchekushka reporting. Remained silent because i'm a bit ashamed of my english. I don't know how many other russians support our cause and i don't know how to end this sentence so it would make sense. I hope that bioware will make things right.


Welcome, not all of us are native English speakers. Hold the line!
SSV Stockholm will retire to dark space for a few hours now.
Wearyanna out Image IPB

#40910
Computim

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Back home finally haha.  Still can't find the transcripts for the segment this afternoon, they'll show up probably later on once they get them transcribed: transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/2012.03.17.html

Hope lives :D
 

#40911
tompuddefoot

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Benirus wrote...

danvla wrote...

Stealth frigate Tchekushka reporting. Remained silent because i'm a bit ashamed of my english. I don't know how many other russians support our cause and i don't know how to end this sentence so it would make sense. I hope that bioware will make things right.

There is quite a few actually :) And don't worry about the english, there are alot of nationalities here and we can easily deal with some shabby language ;) You're language isn't bad at all compared to some of what I've seen so far :lol:

Hold the line!


Yeah and the worst is from people from English speaking countrys!!

#40912
ld1449

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Hydralysk wrote...

Nharia1 wrote...

What the latest news? past 7 hours or so.


http://www.gameinfor...#commentmessage

I'd like to ask anyone who disagrees that this course of action is appropriate at this time post a comment saying this is one person and NOT a representation of the movement as a whole. This paints us all in a bad light and we need to show that we do not support it. We brought the hammer down hard on the last article that posted this, we can do it again. But stay civil. Take one minute to sign up an leave a comment saying that this is NOT the face of Retake Mass Effect. This is how we hold the line.


To be perfectly honest no one has ever taken a videogame industry to court like this because no videogame industry has ever utterly failed in their promises so completely as Bioware has with the ME3 ending.

Any one person can look at a game, play it, beat it, and then debate about the merits/implications of the ending. Wether it was to their satisfaction, why it was to their satisfaction, or why it wasn't. One example I can think of at the top of my head are the "Souls" franchise, Demon souls and Dark Souls. People can play those games, and then actively interpret the long term consecuences of the two endings each of those games offer.

Here however the consumer was promised a plethora of things, none of which were delivered to its consumers in any way shape or form. Barely even the pretense of adhering to their previous promises was made.

On a purely legal field, not counting possible Bias by the judge thinking to himself "I'm really sitting here today on the merits of a Videogame?" The plaintif has almost everything on his side to win this claim if his attorney is competent.

Do I agree with his act in and of itself? I do. But not this soon.

Bioware hasn't even had the oportunity to respond to its pissed off fanbase. They haven't said Yes or No, and this angry consumer doesn't know if all of this was planned and he's kicking up a fuss over something that's gonna sort itself out in a month or two.

In other words, the guy needs to let the dust settle before firing off his weapon at shadows, lest he ends up shooting a friend.

So, in principle, I do agree with him. (The Game's ending is just that infuriating/insulting for me)

He just doesn't have the patience to see if its really necesary or not.

#40913
People4Peace

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Misterdde45000 wrote...

59,256$ for child play. 60k is just ahead of us, keep going and hold the line


Excellent!:wizard:

I am definitely boycotting MP. I am even boycotting SP because they have yet to put out a patch to fix the various glitches, bugs, tech. problems, etc. (especially the CC import) and I have no desire to replay ME3 UNTIL they fix the endings. I was going to start my Insanity playthrough but I am putting that off for a while.

#40914
WvStolzing

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A few more thoughts about the immutability of the artwork:

Shakespeare radically revised or even rewrote some of his most important works multiple times. We know this because some earlier editions got published without his permission.

There are 3 versions of Hamlet, of which the first is VERY different from the other two. You may want to google, for instance, for the earlier version of the 'to be or not to be' soliloquy: it's COMPLETELY different. It's also speculated, that there was an even earlier version, possibly co-written with another playwright.

King Lear, likewise, exists in two versions. Present-day editions (and performances) usually combine bits from all known editions; because i) Shakespeare himself never published his works; he never set down 'officially' what his 'exact intentions' were; and plays were likely being revised from performance to performance; and ii) the earliest publications (the unauthorized ones, and the first posthumously-'authorized' publication) are themselves heavy interpretations, that require further 'adjustments' along the way.

#40915
zephyrus92

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Hey everyone! We've hit 50 thousand in the poll!

http://social.biowar...6&poll_id=28989

#40916
KRAETZNER

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laughing sherpa girl wrote...

danvla wrote...

Stealth frigate Tchekushka reporting. Remained silent because i'm a bit ashamed of my english. I don't know how many other russians support our cause and i don't know how to end this sentence so it would make sense. I hope that bioware will make things right.


Your english is far better than my russian ( equally as good as my american )
By the way.. Previa.. Welcome aboard.

Correction please:  dabro pozhalovat


I'm very fluent in american, and I can tell you, you have strong american.

#40917
Pairikas

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Does anybody else think the End looks like Bioware choose this way how it should end: 


www.youtube.com/watch

That sure is a Great Comedy-Moment, but The End of Mass Effect really feels just like that is the source of it.
Thats just terrible, I want to cry.

#40918
Alikan

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Back and restocked on coffee, beer and hoo...pretzels...to old the line..

#40919
LittleDeadGirl

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FTC was wrong move on that person's part. It paints us into the wrong corner. I don't want to take Bioware to court. I don't want my money back. I loved 95% of the game and the series has been amazing. I just want them to acknowledge they rushed the ending and felt everything would be fine with some pseudo artsy lazy attempt an ending that apparently failed with its fanbase. They didn't poison us or do anything criminal. This is internal ... this is between the fans and bioware and no one else.

#40920
darthoptimus003

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Tyranniac wrote...

unclee wrote...

Teleraine wrote...

That official suggestion thread scares the living daylights outta of me, the quotes are like a page long. Also I feel quite sad for just wishing a happy ending that makes sense when theres like these epic novels posted up by passionate gamers.

I just want to enjoy my games they dont need to present high minded viewpoints of the human condition or anything.


Unfortunately, in the end, I feel like that's going to be their main thing to hold against us. Taking a look through that thread, it's a lot of people asking for things that they specifically wanted in the ending or looking for sunshine and rainbows. The minority of people who are giving well rouded feedback and critiques (i.e. just wanting an ending that makes sense) are far outweighed by the former.

With so many people posting that I fear Bioware will take the thread and say, "See? People are just mad because they wanted what they specifically envisioned as the ending."


Making sense is not enough. Shepard has to be able to act like Shepard, and choices need to matter. And there's never going to be a sunshine and rainbows ending. The galaxy will have a hard time recovering no matter what, and a lot of people close to most Shepards have been lost.

Wanting a specially tailored ending -is- too much to ask.

Wanting an ending worth fighting for, where Shepard has a chance for a future with LI and friends is not too much to ask however. There needs to be an end worth fighting for if one tries hard enough. This is just as important to me anyway as having the ending make sense.

agreed buti wouldnt mind seein shep live with li later on

#40921
Iucounou

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blackeyes677 wrote...
DAO had a great ending; it had closure.  However, I do not know if it would fit in terms of the tiology though.  I feel like there needs to be a lot more varierty in the type of endings reflecting your choices thoughout the series.  When I was told 16 ending, I expected everything ranging from herioric sacrifice to happily ever after to utter defeat.  And everything in between.


This is what we all expected and they did nothing but fuel those expectations.

#40922
Hydralysk

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ld1449 wrote...

Hydralysk wrote...

Nharia1 wrote...

What the latest news? past 7 hours or so.


http://www.gameinfor...#commentmessage

I'd like to ask anyone who disagrees that this course of action is appropriate at this time post a comment saying this is one person and NOT a representation of the movement as a whole. This paints us all in a bad light and we need to show that we do not support it. We brought the hammer down hard on the last article that posted this, we can do it again. But stay civil. Take one minute to sign up an leave a comment saying that this is NOT the face of Retake Mass Effect. This is how we hold the line.


To be perfectly honest no one has ever taken a videogame industry to court like this because no videogame industry has ever utterly failed in their promises so completely as Bioware has with the ME3 ending.

Any one person can look at a game, play it, beat it, and then debate about the merits/implications of the ending. Wether it was to their satisfaction, why it was to their satisfaction, or why it wasn't. One example I can think of at the top of my head are the "Souls" franchise, Demon souls and Dark Souls. People can play those games, and then actively interpret the long term consecuences of the two endings each of those games offer.

Here however the consumer was promised a plethora of things, none of which were delivered to its consumers in any way shape or form. Barely even the pretense of adhering to their previous promises was made.

On a purely legal field, not counting possible Bias by the judge thinking to himself "I'm really sitting here today on the merits of a Videogame?" The plaintif has almost everything on his side to win this claim if his attorney is competent.

Do I agree with his act in and of itself? I do. But not this soon.

Bioware hasn't even had the oportunity to respond to its pissed off fanbase. They haven't said Yes or No, and this angry consumer doesn't know if all of this was planned and he's kicking up a fuss over something that's gonna sort itself out in a month or two.

In other words, the guy needs to let the dust settle before firing off his weapon at shadows, lest he ends up shooting a friend.

So, in principle, I do agree with him. (The Game's ending is just that infuriating/insulting for me)

He just doesn't have the patience to see if its really necesary or not.


I can totally understand that viewpoint, but as you said it's too soon. Until bioware says yes or no on the matter all this does is give us bad press. We have a hard enough fight ahead of us, we don't need this kind of attention on top of it.

Modifié par Hydralysk, 17 mars 2012 - 08:59 .


#40923
Doppelgaenger

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I wanted to share this thread again, because it shows pretty well what is wrong with the story from the point of a writer: http://social.biowar...ndex/10022779/1

This is a good read. If you need inspiration for your letters to describe what is wrong with the ending look here!

#40924
Xyalon

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Signing in. Any news so to speak of?

#40925
RussianOrc

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Katsumi Liqueur wrote...

Hey, how about boycoting MP for a time?

i'm already boycotting since i've saw the ending, but i don't think we have enough strenght to make a diference on this matter.

Modifié par RussianOrc, 17 mars 2012 - 09:02 .