101103 réponses à ce sujet

[RDSFirebane]

Nilofeliu wrote...

I second this decision..
Do not play the game at all until they show us they are trully willing to make changes...

/Salute

ya no worrys on that front everytime I look at the box I get sick....

Hold the Line.

[Nethkin]

First: I didn't get "bittersweet" from the current endings; I just got "bitter". Second: Why does the ending have to be bittersweet? Bittersweet endings have been used so often to counter-act "cliche" happy endings that they've become cliche themselves. Third: Isn't it kind of preachy to tell me that I should accept bittersweet as reality? What's wrong with a little hope?

[Stephanid98]

Doppelgaenger wrote...

Germany reached 300 pages in the counterpart to this thread. Just letting you know we hold the line because we care and want a better ending for our beloved franchise.

Great news!  Thanks for keeping us updated!  Much appreciated.

[Goodwood]

Xyalon wrote...

Goodwood wrote...

Anyone here watched V for Vendetta?

If you have, try to remember V's speech to Evy when she realizes that the "prison" was a farce...

Voilà! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a bygone vexation stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition! The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose, so let me simply add that it's my very good honour to meet you and you may call me....

...Marauder Shields.

Not that one, though it is appropraite to Marauder Shields.

Rather, I meant this one:

[USKnight25]

Don't forget to send your letters!

Hold the Line.

[fade2black2610]

Guys, I've only just posted in the suggestions thread and also sent my e-mail to BioWare. I was wondering if I could get a little feedback to know that I'm in "alignment" with at least a few of you, so I can continue holding the line with even more ferocious vigour! These are my suggestions, which I put in both messages. I know they're being echoed/repeated and so on, but it was also a little reminder to why I'm here.

"Firstly, thanks for giving us a thread for suggestions. We know you've said you're "listening" and however much that's true, this thread was a good idea.

Secondly, my suggestions (which will echo what a lot of people have already said).

- A bittersweet ending is fine. Some people have said that that isn't what our movement wants, but that couldn't be further from the truth. It's fine if a) it makes sense and it isn't the only ending. We have been told by the developers of this gaming franchise that destroying the Mass Relays will destroy a vast portion of the system it's in. Therefore it just doesn't make sense. And I'm not one to mindlessly ask for a happy ending, but something different, something matching what we were promised would more than suffice. Lots of different endings depending on your choices THROUGHOUT the game.

- One thing that I definitely agree with is an epilogue of some sort. Whether scenes, pictures or just writing, a lot of us have become attached to our squad mates throughout the games and we don't just need closure, we (and they) deserve it. We don't need another illogical scene where we see Joker and a few other squad mates (which depends on your colour preference) land on a planet (what were they doing their anyway?/how did they manage that one?!) and that's it.

- My last point is this: Either have our Shepard do what he/she has ALWAYS done and argue back and question the magical little elf fella, or get rid of it altogether.

They're my two three points, I won't carry on repeating what has already been said, I think it's pretty obvious what we want!!"

Modifié par fade2black2610, 18 mars 2012 - 12:00 .

[BCMakoto]

Nethkin wrote...

First: I didn't get "bittersweet" from the current endings; I just got "bitter". Second: Why does the ending have to be bittersweet? Bittersweet endings have been used so often to counter-act "cliche" happy endings that they've become cliche themselves. Third: Isn't it kind of preachy to tell me that I should accept bittersweet as reality? What's wrong with a little hope?

I quote Jeremy Jahns for it:

"The sentence: "The hero has to *anything*" in a game like Mass effect is ridicolous. It was build on choices..."

[Arathon]

Jere85 wrote...

*As i fly around in my transporter ship, reaching my first destination of Germany, i look back over the payload i carry, about 2 dozen large crates, each holding the words "HOLD THE LINE! " put over the length of the crates with permanent marker, i smile to myself, proud of this armada we have formed, invincible if we hold true to that little line that was put so brazenly onto the crates

I figured it would be nice to motivate the troops with some things besides holding the line. Each crate contains a small note of encouragement, 4 barrels of beer, something tasty to eat like chocolate bars instead of the rations the soldiers eat every day, Footballs, baseballs, some magazines to keep the men warm at night, mail for the people of the respected areas from family and friends. All put together nicely to support the men.

As i fly over and open the cargo door, i let my copilot take over to oversee the first drop over germany, smile, and continue with my work, dropping crates all over the world.

Enjoy the drinks guys. Strengthening the line.*

Greets from the 65th Alliance division.

Thank you Sir

[woolyshambler246]

KHReborn wrote...

Nilofeliu wrote...

Tyranniac wrote...

vrumpt wrote...

You guys aren't helping any more with this "Hold the line" talk. We held the line, we got them to listen. They are now listening. Stop yelling at them and give them your feedback so they can start making this right. They understand we don't like the ending, they get it.

Stop being bullies already.

*snap*

*snap*.

You may be fooled by BW's PR. Take a look!
Also "Hold the line!" is our motivotional motto. It's like the 3..2..1..Fight in a Beat'em'Up!
We do this because we believe BW can change. But we believe when we see things happen. Not when somebody tells us vage, that things-might-happen-but-i-never-said-so

And a usual reminder:

Stay Calm. Kepp it civil.

Hold the line!

Remeber Marauder Shields!

KHR is right.  "Hold the line!" is more about solidarity and showing that we stand united in expressing the hope that Bioware make an ending worthy of the rest of the game than about being aggressive and bullying.  The real minority in this story are the posters who fill their replies with rage, hate, and insult.  The rest of us in no way wish to diminish the accomplishment of Bioware, we merely hope for a resolution with the quality that the rest of the game has.

[Benirus]

Benirus wrote...

KHReborn wrote...

chipin is having heavy traffic being down?

Seems like it, working now tho.

It's being really sketchy at the moment for some reason. A site like that shouldn't go down that easily, hopefully there is no foul play at work here.

[shephard987]

We are 73 dollars shy of an even 60,000
Remember, crew, give now at
http://retakemasseff...ect-childs-play

Give to the children
Stay for the endings

Above all
Hold the line

Modifié par shephard987, 18 mars 2012 - 12:03 .

[ElreniaGreenleaf]

I heard that there was controversy over the endings when I first got the game but managed to avoid spoilers right up until the moment of truth. To say I was disappointed would be putting it mildly - to take away our ability to question the situation and try to placate us with the illusion of choice was a very bad move.

I went for Control initially as I couldn't bear to sacrifice EDI and the Geth as I consider them to have just as much right to live and exist as the organics - something that the game itself has been very keen to point out as well. A few hours later I loaded a previous save and took the Synthesis option instead. Overall I prefer that one to the others as there is finally peace and Joker and EDI look so happy together but it really was the lesser of three evils and if there's a chance we can get better alternatives I'm all for it!

I don't take issue with Shepard dying - I'd expected that from the beginning as half the game revolves around self sacrifice - but what does get me riled is taking away our choices, ignoring everything we'd done up until that point and rendering it ultimately useless.

If we do get some DLC to 'fix' things, the Catalyst can ****** off for a start, unless he fancies explaining himself properly and then let us take him and the Reapers down like we all want to. The scene with Joker and co crashlanding on some random planet can bugger off as well - where's the explaination for it?!

So yeah, I'll be holding the line and hoping for a miracle.

[naes1984]

Even more feedback: the child god star child is a literal deus ex machina. It is unnecessary. Just make the crucible work. Depending on our choices it might be able to do different things. For example, it could be a directed energy weapon that is a huge piece of highly precise artillery and you could set about blasting the Reapers- this would grant the most conventional victory and would still require strong fleets to protect from the Reapers or scout Reapers in other systems. Mass Relays intact.

Next the Crucible could be a transmitter that can take over and control the Reapers. Mass Relays intact. This might be the "Renegade option".

Perhaps if your galactic readiness is very low and there is no chance to protect the Citadel/Crucible from Reaper retaliation then it can be used as a blunt instrument to wipe out synthetic life/ and or destroy the Mass relays in the process.

Also have an option where the Reapers actually win and wipe out the fleet. Your readiness is too low to protect the Crucible and is destroyed.

Hell, you could even have an ending where your conventional strength is built up so much that you defeat the Reapers conventionally at Earth, somehow the Crucible doesn't work and Hackett says we've won this battle, we've saved Earth, but we can't win the war. To which Shepherd replies it may take centuries but we will stand together regardless.

These endings are wildly different and would be affected by the decisions you've made. I'm sure other folks could come up with better endings but at least these have more of a variation that what we got.

[WvStolzing]

fade2black2610 wrote...
I think it's pretty obvious what we want!!"

That's the point. Let's make an unequivocal point as to the obviousness of our claims. Arguing about specific issues (e.g. the presence or absence of a 'good ending'), or our feelings won't help this.

The best formulation of the 'core' problem that I can think of, is this:

- We do not want the story of ME3 to come to an abrupt stop, at a Diabolus Ex Machina (the Starchild). We want events in the endgame to follow logically from previous events. We are not asking for further 'explanation' as to the appearance of the Starchild, and the Normandy getting stranded. The problem is not that we are failing to understand any of these. We're not asking BW to justify the ending as it stands. We do not think that this is possible. We ask that the final role of the Catalyst and the Crucible be rethought.

- These are very general outlines, that make no 'positive' prescriptions; they rather lay out the necessary constraints under which BW ought to rewrite the end. We're not petitioning for specific endings. We're petitioning only for an 'ending framework' that is logically sound.

[Cybermortis]

Rosery99 wrote...

I'm glad to see things are stable here, have been worried about the movement losing cohesion but it looks like it's all good. AS for those who think we are bullies, a recent article from a former BW lead writer explained to us BW's stalling and PR tactics and this one there doing now is a delaying tactic, it's also the bottom of the barrel. Now if we gain the south east asian gaming market on our side, they can't ignore us. But if that part of the world majority likes it, we could be sunk. Either way, I think everything will be decided in the next few weeks. We are not being bullies though, we are holding the line and keeping it held, we are watching and keeping our morale up. A truce was signed for diplomatic talks, but the shells could start raining from either side with one small mis-step.

Hold The Line, Comrades.
~R

The PR Tactics is explained in a thread on this message boards by one of our members.

The former BW writer was commenting on the day one DLC, and to some degree on the ending - although in the latter case he spoke in general terms as he hasn't played the game himself. I seem to recall that he stated at some point that he left BW after feeling that the company was changing for the worse...but I might be misremembering that part.

The Asian markets have responded to the game the exact same way we have, and have taken to calling the game 'Rent Effect'. If they are not actively posting here it is simply because most of them don't speak English.

[PhoenixDove1]

Still holding the line.  Have just sent my email to Bioware.
No matter what happens, this community, you guys, are awesome.  No really good word fits there, you are my brothers and sisters in arms, from all around the WORLD!!!!    Pfft, a minority, I think not!

[Stygian1]

Hold the Line


Are we still doing good guys?

[Gallion33103]

SpuDSheraM wrote...

bwFex wrote...

I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all out.

I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.

I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and effect. Work and reward.

The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching: watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.

When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.

I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine. The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.

When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful, significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for nothing.

When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go. But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter place. And then it was all for nothing.

When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech, I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.

And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.

If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause. The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The salarians will never see how people can change for the better.

Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them. Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like we saw in Arrival.

And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to us all over again.

It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending, either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.

No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came, the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't go down without a fight.

In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible" Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together, we can achieve the impossible.

And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at all?

It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.

No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won.

Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came to know and love?

Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless, contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.

No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along. Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions independently.

The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard - you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination theory is true, it's not over yet.

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in you.

Just make it right.

Holding the line

Damn right, Hold the line!

[Computim]

Benirus wrote...

Benirus wrote...

KHReborn wrote...

chipin is having heavy traffic being down?

Seems like it, working now tho.

It's being really sketchy at the moment for some reason. A site like that shouldn't go down that easily, hopefully there is no foul play at work here.

Looks like it's an issue with their host, not the site: 
88 ms     *       58 ms  ae20.bbr01.eq01.dal03.networklayer.com [173.192.18.136]

Doesn't seem to be unusually high ping times, just timing out, so I doubt it's a DoS attack or anything.

[Annaleah]

Stygian1 wrote...

Hold the Line


Are we still doing good guys?

Holding the line...lilbitdrunk but holdin it

[Sevantha]

Cybermortis wrote...


I mean, lets be honest. If BW came forward and said 'Look, we wanted to get the game out on time and did our best. But the fact is that we had problems, messed up and the result was less than what anyone desired due to time constrants'. How many of us would be somewhat more forgiving towards them? I don't mean in the 'OK, then we'll accept the ending as it is' way, but at least in the 'Well, we at least know you didn't start out trying to screw things up' way.

I suspect the initial outcry would have been there, but everyone would have bought the game in the end anyways and I think a lot of players would have understood it. At least those of us of a certain mental age

What bugs me a bit about this whole "might not have had enough time for a proper finish" thing is, that they said they worked on the DLC from ashes after they were done with the game so that just feels a bit off doens't it? I mean i might be wrong there or they have redone that statement but i'm sure i read that some days ago in an article about the enraged "drama" about the day1 DLC.
If that is true, how did they have the time to make a whole DLC but not to make the end that they originally had planned?
That just seems really weird and unbelievable? 

[Xyalon]

Goodwood wrote...

Not that one, though it is appropraite to Marauder Shields.

Rather, I meant this one:

I knew the one you meant. However when you mentioned V for vendetta that speech seemed rather apt for both our plight and V's I mean Marauder Shields' heroic efforts.

But yes, I quite agree with you regarding yours also.

[Yoshi0o0]

 Just sent in my e-mail to Bioware. I thought I was over this, but judging by how emotional I got while typing I suppose I stand corrected. I need a hug. 

[Rosery99]

Cybermortis wrote...

Rosery99 wrote...

I'm glad to see things are stable here, have been worried about the movement losing cohesion but it looks like it's all good. AS for those who think we are bullies, a recent article from a former BW lead writer explained to us BW's stalling and PR tactics and this one there doing now is a delaying tactic, it's also the bottom of the barrel. Now if we gain the south east asian gaming market on our side, they can't ignore us. But if that part of the world majority likes it, we could be sunk. Either way, I think everything will be decided in the next few weeks. We are not being bullies though, we are holding the line and keeping it held, we are watching and keeping our morale up. A truce was signed for diplomatic talks, but the shells could start raining from either side with one small mis-step.

Hold The Line, Comrades.
~R

The PR Tactics is explained in a thread on this message boards by one of our members.

The former BW writer was commenting on the day one DLC, and to some degree on the ending - although in the latter case he spoke in general terms as he hasn't played the game himself. I seem to recall that he stated at some point that he left BW after feeling that the company was changing for the worse...but I might be misremembering that part.

The Asian markets have responded to the game the exact same way we have, and have taken to calling the game 'Rent Effect'. If they are not actively posting here it is simply because most of them don't speak English.

Ah no there was a new article, not the one you speak of. Where that same devolper goes into great detail about Bioware's normal PR Defense against such outrage, I can't find the link right now, but there are two.

[RDSFirebane]

Can someone link the banners real quick or tell me the last page they are on I'm gonna switch mine out.