101103 réponses à ce sujet

[Alamandorious]

KerrJMF wrote...

Just finished my playthrough with 100% readiness and THAT was my "perfect" ending? Oh and apparently Joker, Garrus, and Vega procreate together and form a colony...wtf

That's just...

[Ashtarth1]

The game's ending fails to meet what we were promised as consumers.


The game's ending fails to meet our expectations as fans.


The response from BioWare needs to change.


We have jobs, families, responsibilities. We dedicate our time to this cause because we genuinely care about Mass Effect and its story.


We want to see a product that we, as human beings, as consumers, as fans, and as players can be proud of.



Boycott MP
Hide Emotion
Marauder Shields

[PhoenixDove1]

Yoshi0o0 wrote...

 Just sent in my e-mail to Bioware. I thought I was over this, but judging by how emotional I got while typing I suppose I stand corrected. I need a hug. 

I'm with you.  I was going to try and make it short and sweet but it turned out to be really long.  Considered yourself hugged `hug` 

[Computim]

Tarnation007 wrote...

People keeps saying 'i don't mind if Shepard dies, as long as it is worth it, etc'. Sorry but for me that doesn't cut it, because my Shep doesn't die (by 'doesn't' I mean 'shouldn't'), as that's not my story... I think we should be able to live (more than just taking a breath in some rubble) if we make the right choices and work our asses off. Maybe i'm just wanting too many rainbows, but as choices are supposed to master in these games, I choose rainbows.

Am I just way to selfi- optimistic?

Don't get me wrong.. I'd like Sheppard to survive, but if the narrative had been that he died sacrificing himself I would have understood it.. but I would have liked some sense that live went on.. blowing up the galaxy with the Mass relays is the WORST possible way to do that.. had Paragon Shepard known that he would NEVER have done ANY of the actions.. conventional attack on the reapers would have been preferable to confirmed genocide of the entire galaxy.

Military servicemen and women give their lives all the time, but they have a purpose for it.  I guarantee you no serviceman/woman is going to take a bullet for someone knowing said bullet would prevent the planet from blowing up.  Part of WHY they do it is they know that it's protecting their family, their homes, their way of life..  Otherwise it's meaningless sacrifice, and in the case of the ME3 ending, worse off an ending than conventional warfare with the reapers.

[weatabix]

Alamandorious wrote...

KerrJMF wrote...

Just finished my playthrough with 100% readiness and THAT was my "perfect" ending? Oh and apparently Joker, Garrus, and Vega procreate together and form a colony...wtf

That's just...

Im not sure  quite cuts it there my friend 

[Spanking Machine]

CelticStorm wrote...

can any one give me the email to bioware so i can send my email

contact@bioware.com

[VivaLaWhatsername]

Tarnation007 wrote...

People keeps saying 'i don't mind if Shepard dies, as long as it is worth it, etc'. Sorry but for me that doesn't cut it, because my Shep doesn't die (by 'doesn't' I mean 'shouldn't'), as that's not my story... I think we should be able to live (more than just taking a breath in some rubble) if we make the right choices and work our asses off. Maybe i'm just wanting too many rainbows, but as choices are supposed to master in these games, I choose rainbows.

Am I just way to selfi- optimistic?

I'm with you 100% on this, I actually DO (not yelling just emphasising) care if Shepard dies. I honestly thought I was going to get the choice (being a good paragon and all) to have Shepard alive, but nope I didn't even get the half-breath scene because I can't stand MP even though we were promised MP wouldn't be necessary to SP.

*cough* Sorry that ended up in a place I didn't mean to go....

[Gi-Joe-Ge]

Tarnation007 wrote...

People keeps saying 'i don't mind if Shepard dies, as long as it is worth it, etc'. Sorry but for me that doesn't cut it, because my Shep doesn't die (by 'doesn't' I mean 'shouldn't'), as that's not my story... I think we should be able to live (more than just taking a breath in some rubble) if we make the right choices and work our asses off. Maybe i'm just wanting too many rainbows, but as choices are supposed to master in these games, I choose rainbows.

Am I just way to selfi- optimistic?

You are not. I could live with my Shepard dying if it is for a cause and well explained, however I prefer this not to happen.

If the right choices are made Shepard should have the chance to survive, get the blue babies or build a house with Tali. There is nothing wrong with that.

Modifié par Gi-Joe-Ge, 18 mars 2012 - 12:36 .

[cheinara2]

Australian Sydney Spec Ops, reporting back in. o/ o>

[SilverOnemi]

jerobolod wrote...

BBCH wrote...

Not sure if anyone's posted it yet... a good review of the game and a critique of the state of video game journalism

www.damnlag.com/mass-effect-3-review-so-close-to-sticking-the-landing/
www.damnlag.com/a-lack-of-value-the-reviews/

Wow. That second one about video game journalism is great. And yeah, I have no idea what the G4TV paragraph that they quote means in the slightest.

that second article is REALLY GOOD, how do i post a comment tho? 

Guys check this out : 

www.damnlag.com/a-lack-of-value-the-reviews/ 

talks about on how game journalists are biased these days. 

[THX-1136]

Computim wrote...

Tarnation007 wrote...

People keeps saying 'i don't mind if Shepard dies, as long as it is worth it, etc'. Sorry but for me that doesn't cut it, because my Shep doesn't die (by 'doesn't' I mean 'shouldn't'), as that's not my story... I think we should be able to live (more than just taking a breath in some rubble) if we make the right choices and work our asses off. Maybe i'm just wanting too many rainbows, but as choices are supposed to master in these games, I choose rainbows.

Am I just way to selfi- optimistic?

Don't get me wrong.. I'd like Sheppard to survive, but if the narrative had been that he died sacrificing himself I would have understood it.. but I would have liked some sense that live went on.. blowing up the galaxy with the Mass relays is the WORST possible way to do that.. had Paragon Shepard known that he would NEVER have done ANY of the actions.. conventional attack on the reapers would have been preferable to confirmed genocide of the entire galaxy.

Military servicemen and women give their lives all the time, but they have a purpose for it.  I guarantee you no serviceman/woman is going to take a bullet for someone knowing said bullet would prevent the planet from blowing up.  Part of WHY they do it is they know that it's protecting their family, their homes, their way of life..  Otherwise it's meaningless sacrifice, and in the case of the ME3 ending, worse off an ending than conventional warfare with the reapers.

If only Bioware made it one of the options (not necessarily a "failure" option, but it could be), just not all of the endings...

[Computim]

SilverOnemi wrote...

jerobolod wrote...

BBCH wrote...

Not sure if anyone's posted it yet... a good review of the game and a critique of the state of video game journalism

www.damnlag.com/mass-effect-3-review-so-close-to-sticking-the-landing/
www.damnlag.com/a-lack-of-value-the-reviews/

Wow. That second one about video game journalism is great. And yeah, I have no idea what the G4TV paragraph that they quote means in the slightest.

that second article is REALLY GOOD, how do i post a comment tho? 

Guys check this out : 

www.damnlag.com/a-lack-of-value-the-reviews/ 

talks about on how game journalists are biased these days. 

Yeah 9.5 is basically code for "We would give it lower but we don't want to anger the publisher" these days.

[Nilofeliu]

Xyalon wrote...

Goodwood wrote...

Heh, I played some of that MP event before I realized what it meant. While I have temporarily suspended myself from playing ME3, I'm still torn as to whether or not this was a preplanned event or a hastily-contrived publicity stunt. I'm inclined to assume good faith, however, on top of the fact that it seems to be rather a lot of work in such a short time to put the event up as a means of placating us.

If you had 50k+ ravenous dogs crawling at your door (metaphorically), I'm pretty sure you'd do rather a lot of work in short time to find some food for them - or find a way out.

Great analogy...

However that's what I am afraid of. I think they are looking for a way out instead of giving us what we want...

/Salute

[SpuDSheraM]

Just came across this a thread, IS WELL WORTH A READ if you haven't already

EDIT: origianl thread here. Worth following as the first post is updated with the latest news!
http://social.biowar...ndex/10084349/1 

EA/Bioware in Full PR Damage Control Mode ***UPDATED***
One of the most insightful post I've read on these forums since this controversy started has been this one from a user named atghunter. I shall quote him:


atghunter wrote...

Posted this yesterday, I'll repost here. Hope it helps to see what's on the other side of the mirror atm.

I don't think Bioware is out of touch with their customers though I agree with an earlier poster that right now they are assessing their options. Nor do I think that everyone speaking up for them at the moment is a "yes man" or shill. That said:

I don't for a moment think there are any other endings, this was a hallucination, etc. Bioware/EA is letting these speculations go on for two reasons. First, they are letting people vent. Secondly, they are weighing options.

Years ago, I worked for a PR damage control team and everything right now is going by the book. First, re-affirm and ignore (also known as doubling down), then try and define the detractors in the mainstream with things like "this is all a big mistunderstand", etc. while remaining civil in the hopes the detractors go rabid. Meanwhile go dark and use countermeasures through third part sources to prop up your position and brand the outcry as driven by hacks, haters or a minority trying to wear out the detractors on these outlets or "shock troops" while protecting the corporate core. Next, offer something distracting (notice SWTOR is free this upcoming weekend) known as the "faux olive branch"/ask the angry people to explain their concerns (without agreeing to commit to a compromise), buy more add time (definitely going on right now), and hope it dies down. If the pressure is still on, determine the economic viability of 1) ignoring the outcry and banking on the fickle nature of consumers to get over it or 2) determining if we can make money off of fixing it.

If it is any consolation, the decision whether or not there is a fix DLC, etc, won't be made by the writers so illusions to things they wanted to convey don't matter much atm (to wit: the leads comments yesterday). I suspect he's been called in and politely told by the PR guys to not do that again. This is now a corporate problem, not an artistic struggle with fans. Somewhere in the EA bunker, attorneys, PR guys, writers and brass are sharing numbers b/c in the end this will come down to hard currency.

As one who despises the endings, I'm hoping the suits tell the visionaries that the customers are loud enough and numerous enough to swollow their pride and get them out of this storm. For those that love them, I readily accept your position and respectfully disagree.


His post was written yesterday (Thursday, March 15) and today (March 16) Bioware announced the N7 weekend "Operation: Goliath" baloney encouraging gamers to play a weekend event that promises "FREE STUFF".

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/324/index/9993278/1

Sadly, a lot of the same people who were swearing off Bioware were posting in that thread asking how they can be a part of the event. I was persoanlly disgusted, so my question to everyone was - does no one see what's going on here?

Soon after I created this thread, atghunter commented again.

atghunter wrote...

Greetings All,

First, I’m flattered someone would repost this. Many thanks.

A couple follow-up thoughts for those wondering what is likely going on with the other side of the mirror in the last couple days:

First, Operation Goliath, the free Star Wars online weekend, and the recent noncommittal overtures to listen arefaux olive branches. Sorry. Customers intrinsically want to believe companies they patronize listen and when they stop believing that, the company has to say they are listening and do anything to get the detractors off-message. There are a dozen names for this, but the most memorable was "The Shell Game."

You will know that there’s a genuine need for dialogue in the corporate bunker when the message turns from “we’re listening” to “we acknowledge we may have a disconnect with our consumers and are willing to discuss a meaningful solution to the problem.” It signals an end to non-committed deflection and opening genuine talks to solve the problem (it’s knows as “Exposing Your Throat” btw). At present, you’ll notice Bioware/EA has only said they will “explain” the endings. That’s not a give, that’s a delay tactic.

But here’s the part that amazes me as an old PR guy and is totally new. The disenfranchised base here is changing the old methodology. It’s akin to comparing old-style bunker PR defenses to new blitzkrieg-style consumers. To date, the “bunker strategy” was always used because it was virtually foolproof. However, social media and the 24 hour news cycle have simply changed everything. Twenty years ago, you could not mass 30,000 protesters into a networked base without some luck, money, a GREAT cause and (most importantly) time. By the time you did get organized, folks were either burned out or lost interest. Groups like Take Back have altered the landscape and suddenly the contest is taken from the old paradigm to a crazy new (and wonderful IMO) place. Preorder sales took away customers biggest weapon in the past (i.e. don’t buy the product). Now customers who feel they have received poor value have been potentially re-empowered by the internet. Bioware/EA is feeling the full brunt of this thing while passion is hottest. They are deploying countermeasures faster than the old strategies ever would have ever suggested. To some degree, they are being outmaneuvered atm. But now it depends on how long the protest/outcry holds up.

Two more quick points and I’ll close. First, the Child’s Play movement was brilliant. Notice over the past few days how some of the most visceral detractors to the outcry have had to shift their vitriol from “you’re spoiled selfish haters” to “sure you gave to charity, but you are spoiled selfish haters.” Nobody is drinking that Kool-Aid. Better yet, some outlets are now saying “maybe the game has problem but its still art” from the precedent message “best game ever.” That won’t fly with the mainstream. If its one thing they know is that when “art” hits the marketplace, it is a commodity, nothing more. You’ve changed the countermeasures from "unbiased" critics of the movement into drum beaters simply trying to get you angry. EA’s PR guys probably envy you (grudgingly) atm.

Second, don’t buy the only X people voted in the poll out of 1 billion customers, so they don’t care. That’s bunk. Are there "drum beaters" on both sides of this issue that just want to see controversy, sure. But if I was sitting in an office looking at that Bioware poll, I’d be reaching for a cigarette.

Finally remember, they have much more data at their disposal. They know how sales are going, how much time people are playing that are synced into Origin, etc. They will watch those numbers this weekend. If sales slow, watch for price cutting within 10 days (just over the two week US release date). It will mean that retailers are getting nervous and will slow new unit orders. As I’ve said before, this will come down to hard currency. If the protests start having an effect on that front, the response will come.

I’m an older gamer and again appreciate the repost. To everyone (on both sides) continue to let your voices be heard. You are consumers and have every right to engage in this discourse. The boards being locked yesterday proves someone is watching and knows this is an issue. I'm in the hated-ending camp to be sure, but I admire everyone one of you who is arguing for what believe on both sides!

Cheers.

Many men may be willing to die heroically for a noble cause, but few men will live humbly for one. Wilhelm Stekel



And tonight Casey Hudson responded precisely as atghunter predicted.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/324/index/10089946

And here is atghunters thoughts on Casey's statement:

atghunter wrote...

Greetings All,

Really flattered with the responses. Respectful regards and thanks to all. Been spending a few minutes reading over Mr. Hudson’s response. Here's my PR insider perspective. Hope it helps a bit.

First, let’s simply look at strategy over content. 1) They definitely released this on a Friday evening to bury it in the news cycle (because it does acknowledge in passing there are unhappy customers, but more next paragraph). Btw, kudos to those who pointed that out earlier in the thread-Solid catch. 2) Several of the “anti-ending” articles (most notably Forbes) are now creeping into front page searches for “Mass Effect 3” instead of “Mass Effect 3 endings” and they are hoping this release will knock those stories to page 2. 3) They are hoping to deflect some of the current silence anger by combining this message with this weekend’s faux olive branches (discussed earlier).

All in all, the message release strategy is nothing too interesting at this point.

The content, however, is interesting. Most of the statement is doublespeak meant to let you see whatever you want as to as to the direction this thing is heading. Mr. Hudson then clearly tries to give validity to the greatness of the game by citing a couple news sources in the hopes of getting those stories more hits and onto search page one (nicely played EA PR), but the main thing is a clear acknowledgement that Houston has a problem with “some” fans. Mind you, he uses the term “some” and “most passionate fans” to try and minimalize the level of the outcry, but the disenfranchised fan base has reached the level of acknowledgement. That is important. Does it mean those disenfranchised fans have won? Not by a long shot. But Mr. Hudson’s statement was written (or at least approved by someone running damage control). And ultimately any time you have to acknowledge a problem with your product or customers, you have issues.

Does he continue on holding his own line that they intended “bittersweet” endings? Yes. Is the comment that you’ll see more of Commander Shepard an illusion to an “ending” DLC? Not certain but probably not at the moment. Does he utilize the “we’re listening to feedback but not promising we’ll do anything” line used on the boards yesterday? Sure.

It is clear most of his statement is insubstantial and leaves tons of room for spin either way down the road. Whether it gets used or not, management is trying to find some wiggle room in case they have to change course.

Last bit. A warning. PR guys know that right now many people’s emotions are on edge and often use a tactic called “Sound and Fury” (Shakespearean reference see Macbeth) to see if it gets people raging. It helps that strategy that people are looking at anything coming out of Bioware to detect wind changes. That said, I was reading through the thread burning with Mr. Hudson’s statement (though to be fair it is a Bioware/EA statement) and it seems for the most part folks are being passionate, but civil. EA PR will probably chalk up that aspect of this release as a failedruse de guerre (trick of war).

Stay civil, stay passionate, and stay vocal no matter which side you take. For myself, I’ll shamelessly

Hold the Line


Shortly after Casey's statement, a forum thread was created for Bioware rep Jessica Merizan to gather feedback from unsatisfied fans:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10098213/1#10098213

Here is atghunter analysis of that:

atghunter wrote...

Greetings all,

I promise some individual answers (working my way forward from page 18 atm) and my wife thanks you all for letting me have dinner. But first, a take on the latest Bioware maneuvers from a PR perspective.

First, I’ve never met Ms. Merizan personally, but I’ve read some of her tweets and find her to be an engaging and personable individual online. She is a PR guys dream because I believe she genuinely has empathy for the players and it shows.

That said, please remember that she (like everyone else in this storm at Bioware is saying nothing more than they are being told/authorized to say).

So on to the post. Of course, we’ve covered the whole churning things out on Friday night to avoid the news cycle under Mr. Hudson’s post. Standard Operating Procedure there. However, the tenor of Ms. Merizan's post is much better than what we’ve been seeing in the last 24 hours. Moreover, it is simply less of a CYA publicity statement acknowledging a situation but minimalizing the problem. Notice she drops the pretense of “most people love this but a few people may disagree” and heads straight into a quasi “throat exposure” by saying:

“In order for a collaboration between the devs and the fans to work, I need you guys to CONTINUE being constructive, and organizing your thoughts. I know where to look, but I need you to help me by contributing to the dialogue.”

It is a direct communication to the offended customers. No promise of change to be sure, but probably the first genuine offer to discuss this issue in terms of possible collaboration vs. discussion/explanation. It won’t make the news b/c of Mr. Hudson’s statement issued shortly before as a media "screen" (though honestly, this was probably the intended message the PR guys want us to have all along).

As I mentioned before, once you gain acknowledgement, you have taken the first step in a PR campaign towards a compromise. Lots of road ahead, but to that end, well done.

Also take that Ms. Merizan acknowledges the positive aspect of the RetakeME3 movement. From a PR standpoint, it’s like acknowledging the people you are presently struggling with actually have virtue. You’re not saying they are right, but you aren’t simply acknowledging their presence either. Mind you this can also be a gambit to 1) deflect (as we’ve previously discussed) or 2) to enrage (i.e. hope that the players will refuse to communicate and thus be seen as unreasonable at this overture). Best PR counter response: strength, civility, a touch of wariness and loads of conviction.

The only troubling thing I can see is the collecting feedback data for “weeks” comment when the game went into full release only about 12 days ago, but I’m guessing that was possibly a PR guy’s oversight who assumed (based on the historical curve of these kind of things) that this matter has devolved in a much longer time that has actually elapsed. But it is equally possible she has been keeping track as well. Still doesn’t detract from the tone of the message.

Much less deflection, a bit more acknowledgement. If it hasn’t become clear, these fights (and make no mistake, they are fights be it abet civil ones) are of move and counter-move.

Continue to make your voices heard. Give them the concise arguments I’ve read on this forum a hundred times (regardless of your side). This is a game of choices, and call me an old optimist, but I have to believe there is enough room on my hard drive for some endings for both the producers and we consumers. Continue to post respectfully, but with the passion and conviction that inspires an old gamer like me. If you do, and this ultimately turns out to be a deflection, it is a dangerous one for EA/Bioware.

Here's why. One of the greatest lessons of PR is don’t offer to negotiate, unless you mean it. Doing so and ultimately being outed is called “Brokering Solutions but Delivering Stonewalls”. Not to be melodramatic, when I did this work, we called it something else…

Sudden Death


As the thread has progressed, a Bioware employee - Jarrett - entered and began posting.

Jarrett Lee wrote...

Most of these things you see as olive branches aren't that at all. They are part of the already planned launch period of ME3 (Star Wars I can't speak for). The N7 MP weekend was planned some time ago - before the ending situation came to light. Not everything revolves around this controversy. It's just unfortunate timing. Same goes for the recent strategy videos for example - we filmed those weeks ago. I think Corey and Eric did a great job in them and was dismayed at the vitriol in the YouTube comments.

You're complaints are being heard, and considered and discussed etc, but I wouldn't read so much into some of the marketing stuff we're doing. I know a lot of you won't buy that - i cant "prove it" - but I've actually always been honest with you guys all the way back to ME1. Operation Goliath is an event we planned because the multiplayer is really fun, and we want to engage the players with it (i just completed the challenge tonight myself!). Of course we had events and releases planned for the week after launch-week. There are no nefarious scheming evil meetings on this topic. We take it seriously, and are discussing it internally. Nobody is happy or dismissive about the fan reaction, at BioWare. Quite the opposite really. These are good people who care deeply about the work they do.

I would suggest patience but not sure there's receptiveness to that at this point.

Guess that's all I wanted to say for now. Have a good night/weekend.


At which point the thread derailed into "thank you for talking to us like human beings" and "I feel bad for you Jarrett" comments.

atghunter replied to Jarrett:

atghunter wrote...

Mr. Lee,

Thanks for joining the dialogue. I haven’t read ahead, but I hope the discourse over your post remains civil and positive as I think this thread has been.

First, I wholeheartedly believe that there are good people at Bioware that care about the work they do. But I hope you can equally agree that sometimes the best people in business, with the best intentions, can misstep when it comes to consumer relations. It does not make them bad or wicked, just human. And when that happens, a tedious (and sometimes strained) relationship occurs requiring ultimately a dialogue between the conflicted parties brokered by PR folks. I don’t think anyone (certainly I haven’t) ascribed Bioware’s response as “evil”, but it is most certainly calculated. It has to be given the stakes.

We should also probably agree that atm the PR folks are directing the course of Bioware’s response (with lots of input to be sure). Were some/all of the events going on this weekend pre-planned? I don’t know but I’ll take your word for it. Could those same events have been planned as firewalls (aka potential faux olive branches) or for just plain fun? I don’t know. However, while I certainly wasn’t the most savvy PR guy, it simply seems illogical that someone wouldn’t build some firewalls into a worldwide pre-sale release just in case. Again, no evil intentions, just solid market share defense. Those same firewalls turn into great media boosters if the game had been acclaimed and unneeded. In short, they get repurposed.

I don’t ascribe Bioware as a malevolent group bent on the destruction of its fan base. At the moment I do ascribe them in one sense as you do:

We take it seriously, and are discussing it internally. Nobody is happy or dismissive about the fan reaction, at BioWare

And that is, in my opinion, is because the situation cannot be ignored. As I’ve posted previously, Bioware/EA seems to have acknowledged a problem. Now it is simply a matter of how a business determines the economic viability of its response.

Again, I’m glad you chimed in. I always enjoy good discussions. And please don’t believe there isn’t “receptiveness” to your point. It’s fatalism. Honestly, people here have been passionately, but in an overwhelmingly civil tone, chiming in all week hoping for a modicum of acknowledgement with virtually no response from Bioware, and most still seem possessed of great hope for that same receptiveness.



During Jarrett's time in the thread, emotions were running high and there were some disagreements (naturally) between some members with some people believing he was sincere, while others did not.

Even atghunter and myself didn't exactly see eye to eye on the situation.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10084349/44#10111527

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10084349/47#10112703



It's all good.

Next we have posts that require mention. The first is a very astute post by Gexora

Gexora wrote...

I have just read this whole tread, from the page one (and yep, I am probably getting fired soon). I think I have some valuable insight as someone who could see the way situation unraveled.
So I read 35 amazing pages of people being mostly civil and discussing our movement; atghunter's posts were fascinating, I have seen the first one before and was amazed by how insightful it was, and glad he continued to help us.
Then Mr. Lee waltzes in, says some vague stuff while being polite and humorous, ignores all questions but the most innocent one, waltzes out - and everyone falls head over feet praising him. Then, some pages later, people are slowly realising they were played like little vorcha, and start arguing about that. I agree with someone saying we were so tired of Bioware treating us like bull****, we are at the point where anyone treating us like humans is idolized.
Then the thread got back to the topic again, but it just didn't have the same fire, had a lot of off-topic and arguing. So, the result?
Jarett Lee just nuked the promising thread while being nice.



Indeed.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10084349/52#10116224

The second was a wonderful analysis of the "battle situation" from KeldorKatern.

KeldorKatarn wrote...

The same holds true here as in every negotiation. There are trained PR people at work here. They are experts in double talk, delaying action and deception here. I cannot speak in PR stuff here, but as a former military I can say you this (and the PR guy from the first post will most likely agree):

The only viable strategy for you guys is doing exactly what the other side cannot handle: Keep the pressure up! DON'T fall in line, don't respond to false offers of peace.

The strategic position is this. On your side you have a vast military but still rather disorganized. On the other hand you have a very well trained and organized but outnumbered army.

The other side is currently in the following position: They are attacked on all fronts but still mostly disorganized so
they, being better trained, have been able to mostly hold the line for now. They are also most likely experiencing the first signs of sales losses, of dropping multiplayer counts and they have predictions on their tables of dropping DLC sales. In military terms: They are experiencing attrition effects, they have supply problems. The only viable strategy in that situation is: Keep your forces together, make only very thought through moves, do as many delaying and distracting moves as possible, because that's the only thing where you still have the advantage: The enemy is unorganized and cannot yet strike as an organized whole. If that were the case... bye, bye.

So what you guys have to do now is use YOUR advantages and exploit their weaknesses. That means: Keep the pressure up and increase it. Organize, do organized large scale strikes. They have NO way to defend against those. The more organized you become, the more they will be able to feel your numbers. They cannot defend against a full-blown strike. They can only delay you and try to disrupt you. If you don't let them do that, you'll
win outright.

So the best way to achieve this is to organize loud protests, organized, and well thought through. Also don't ever respond positively to ANYTHING but your initial demands. Don't even think about responding to "maybe"s or "let's talk"s. What you want is a full surrender; NOTHING else. DON'T stop before they bow down and literally talk to you on YOUR terms. YOU are the customers. Use that. This also means:

DON'T play the game, DON'T buy and DLCs unless they are EXACTLY what you want. They will feel the dropping numbers, they have Origin. Many people didn't like Origin, but now it is YOUR weapon. Don't play and the WILL see that. They do have the statistics. The fewer people order anything, the fewer people use origin the heavier you are threatening their supply lines.

Kill their supply lines while holding up the pressure and you WILL win this. But DON'T ever give in. YOU have the upper hand, DON'T let them take that away from you.

Also never become angry or uncivil, because that is another one of their strategies. If you become an angry mob, they will be able to sell you as such, gathering allies. You don't want them to be able to do that. Think of this as a war between a rebel force with huge numbers and the loyalist army of the head of state. If the head of state manages to picture you in public opinion as an angry mob, as terrorists or whatever, they might be getting help by powerful allies (read: the press). If however you remain civil, fight a gallant war and voice your concerns in a reasonable way, then YOU might be getting help and in the end the UN might intervene on your behalf (read again: the press will force them to give in or lose a ****load of money).

Keep this up people. Don't take the pressure of.

The minute you do, they have won.


Edit: To Bioware:


Don't take this the wrong way. I truly love you guys and I'm a huge fan. But this thing just won't fly. What you did here was just bad judgment and I think the best way for you to handle this is to fix this ASAP and maybe make some money with it (although if I were you, I'd be real careful with that one).

You have achieved something here that is really incredible. You should actually be proud of yourselves to some degree. If you hadn't done a whole lot of things right, people wouldn't be here complaining. They would sit at home and say "Who gives a sh*t!?"You have created a franchise that is so wonderful and so loved that people actually DO care. All you have to do now is make you that stays that way. And that will not be achieved by PR bullsh*t by the books. It will be achieved by showing them that this industry is not just about money and about sales counts and quarterly reports but that it is still about wanting to give people a great time and about making people happy with your creations.

Sorry I have to be against you guys this time. But see it like this... this entire army that is kicking your nuts right now... if you play things right you'll have all of them behind you, whenever you need them, in the next war.

I'm really hoping this war will end in a way that benefits both sides in the end.

So long...


social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10084349/59#10122930

And here's atghunter's most recent post on Jarrett's involvement.

atghunter wrote...

Good Morning (for me), Afternoon, or Evening All,

Some absolutely amazing posts an insights from folks overnight! And as always, thank you for the complimentary remarks. KeldorKatarn had some great thoughts on this from his perspective which overlap in one aspect or another with so many things PR teams practice. I’m probably going to end up spending a couple hours this afternoon wrapping my head around the philosophical parallels and constructs of his post!

Just one quick thought and then I’m off to answer all the great e-mails I've received. I was happy to see Mr. Jarrett stop by last night. He came by to try and do a bit of “humanizing” (and yes, that is something every PR team uses extensively) of Bioware. A completely fair deflecting maneuver btw. I readily acknowledge there are probably some great people at Bioware, who love their work, do great things and may even be quite personable (please see my remarks yesterday re. Ms. Merizan). It’s genuine to that degree in his message, but the strategic goal is to try and merge the “corporation” which is pretty easy to be angry at, and the individuals who they want you to feel empathy for. It’s putting a face on your corporate entity much like many food brands have a face on their products.

So how do you resolve empathy for overworked and disappointed employees vs. a company you feel delivered an inferior/defective product? Simple. You can do both. Feel empathy for the workers, but continue to demand accountability from the corporation. As I’ve mentioned previously, at this point, this isn’t a struggle with the writers. And in the end, to be blunt, those hard-working, personable emplotees will do what the corporate entity ultimately decides. If EA instructs the writers and developers to write an ending with pink ponies and chocolate bars falling from the sky, that’s what will happen.

Just remember the bottom line is, well, the bottom line for EA. Please continue to remain civil and express your views (no matter which side of this debate you favor). Since I can’t see the other side of the chessboard, no prognostications on where the game stands, but it is pretty clear the pieces are moving.

Cheers!


social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10084349/62#10124980

Next up is a brilliant post by member redknight38 providing suggestions on how the "Retake ME3" movement can best proceed forward.

redknight38 wrote...

I sigh at myself. I really did promise to stay out of this, but that's clearly me lying to myself since last night. I've been involved...

So I am about to get a PhD in military history, with a specialty on insurgencies and conflict management. I'm not active military but what the hell. The gentleman in active duty was right-- this movement needs to get organized. Bioware has been getting better at playing by the PR handbook because they're getting a handle on things. Therefore they are in for the long haul and therefore people here have to be as well. That means getting organized and having consistent, coherent, simple and clear tactics and messaging. The Tea Party and the Occuppy movements both had to do that, hence their staying power after initial passionate outbursts.

How do insurgencies or even COIN ops operate?

1) Get a message out. So this Retake movement has to get a message out. Some suggestions have been offered: google bombing and review bombing. I have a lot of qualms about the latter because it has the potential to irreparably drive down the reviews to the point of not being able to repair it. Later, when this movement has become more articulated, you might be able to promise to attempt to drive that review rating up, however.

Either way, find a way to spread this on the Internet and build awareness for it. Have simple talking points and try to agree on them.

I suggest remaining polite and even being a little positive. You like ME, you don't hate Bioware. You just want changes. That'll build a sympathetic message because a key point in COIN and insurgencies is winning over neutrals.

2) Repeat the message as often as you can. Self-explanatory. However, it can't just be "I hate the ending" or "hold the line." You'll have to keep repeating your simple, bullet-pointed list of complaints. Groups like the IRA don't repeat long treatises (as I've been seeing on the boards) on their complaints. Nobody will read that. Keep it simple and keep it consistent.

That clearly means people on this forum will have to come to an agreement of the basic points they all agree with. The majority of resistance movements have internal problems and divisions that are often more important than external ones. The IRA, the VC, Mao, they all killed as many or more of their own members as their enemies. Failed insurgencies like the Philippine NPA did so to the detriment of their mission.

Incidentally, that means that instead of saying "bump" or "hold the line" or "I support this thread" you might want to say "don't play SP or MP" in trying to bump it. Something constructive. The message.

3) Disrupt the enemy's internal cohesion. Attacking Bioware people is highly counter-productive so no ambushing or isolating. These people are just doing their jobs and I sincerely doubt they're maliciously laughing at your discontent. Neither are they having money fights at your expense. Come on people, this is the gaming industry, not Goldman Sachs. These people are not rolling in it.

They try to humanize themselves to win your sympathy. DO THE SAME. Stop attacking Casey Hudson and the like but instead tell them you love the game, you always liked his writing and you always had faith in him. This will be easier because it's essentially true. Tell them you don't hate them, that you'll go back to the fold if they meet your demands.

What you are trying to do is build sympathy and win defectors. The biggest prize for an insurgency movement are defectors, especially high profile ones. In the case of this Retake thing, you want to do it so that during their meetings there will be someone advocating for you. Hopefully more than one someone. Incidentally, this might involve having to accept paid ending DLC. Much earlier in this thread I opined why it would have to be paid: remember, they claim the game is done. The story is finished to their satisfaction. Any ending DLC they release they can legitimately (i.e. in court) claim as bonus. You don't need to get it.

Be careful of them trying to do the same. They'll try to win you over so someone here will suddenly be advocating for them. Hence the skepticism regarding Mr. Lee. He came here and suddenly everybody was telling others to back off, the Bioware guys had a long week. This is true, and don't be rude to him. However, nobody was, but people were losing their skepticism and resolve.

4) Disrupt the enemy logistics which means disrupting sales. Since you can't meet them head-on, this is one thing you can do. However, threatening to boycott products not yet made is absolutely meaningless.Newsflash, if you threaten not to buy something a company has not yet made, what will they do? Not make them.Bioware hasn't lost money on products not yet made because they haven't sunk resources into making them and marketing them. If you threaten not to buy it, they will find another product, one which does not cater to you. The next Bioware game could therefore very well be a multiplayer game or a shooter. That being said, threatening to boycott Bioware in the future is not a bad idea since AGTHunter noted that it turned you into cautious consumers. You just have to do more.

However, they have ME3 now. I can guarantee you the sales of ME3 and its future content are part of their current budget plan and profit projection. It's part of their logistics. Disrupt that and you are actually making a message regarding their money.

You don't need to do anything dramatic but it might be hard. Too hard. Playing SP offline and not playing MP is honestly the best way to do it-- they track your playtime so by not playing you are telling them you are unhappy with the current product and will therefore not buy future DLC or anything of the sort. Since they alread have money sunk into your product, one likely response from Bioware is to attempt to find ways of luring you back since that would be easier than making an entirely new game. If you keep emphasizing you would love to be lured back if they meet your demands, even better. Remember that video games are actually cheaper than you think and a lot of their profitability comes from DLC so you do hold some leverage here.

Discouraging others from buying it works as well.

Not playing MP seems a no go since too many people want to. So be it-- it's their right and they're being smart consumers still. They paid for it, why not enjoy it? Don't criticize them for it. Someone suggested continuing the protest on MP and if it is possible change your name to reflect Retake or Hold the Line. Add it to your online avatar's name. I don't know if that's possible.

Basically-- if you kids are serious about this, remember a) this won't be easy and it'll take a while, there will be no clear win, insurgencies or COIN ops don't end cleanly, c) there is risk. There is always risk and you'll have to accept that. The biggest risk is that Bioware might simply abandon you and ME3. Another is that you might damage Bioware to the point that it can't make its games. I don't like that, you don't like that and it's why a lot of "haters" are mad at you. They have good cause, but that's beside your point.

One last cynical thing you can offer Bioware: if they meet your demands and you are happy... well you can essentially offer this online advocacy network to them. Most companies would give their right arms to have a passionate, far-reaching and dedicated group of people pushing their products for free.

So good luck to you kids.


social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10084349/69#10131523

Updates as they continue.

Hold. The. Line!

Modifié par SpuDSheraM, 18 mars 2012 - 12:40 .

[DifferentD17]

II WhiteWolf NL wrote...

Did you guys watch this video ?



if this is true... its genius xD

The indoctrination theory right? It would be interesting, but it means the game never finished, and it feels like Bioware intended it to end. Especially when you beat the game it says Shepard wins... blah blah..

[Ohpus]

Computim wrote...
Military servicemen and women give their lives all the time, but they have a purpose for it.  I guarantee you no serviceman/woman is going to take a bullet for someone knowing said bullet would prevent the planet from blowing up.  Part of WHY they do it is they know that it's protecting their family, their homes, their way of life..  Otherwise it's meaningless sacrifice, and in the case of the ME3 ending, worse off an ending than conventional warfare with the reapers.

Perhaps, but this would be an appropriate style of ending when things are going good in the world. When things are crappy, like now with the economy and various wars, people are looking for escapism and hope. Optomistic endings and those with Shep living with his LI serve the public good even if i does not completely serve the narritive.

Basically Bioware is chosing the wrong cycle for artsy gloom and doom.

[Benathorn]

Tarnation007 wrote...

People keeps saying 'i don't mind if Shepard dies, as long as it is worth it, etc'. Sorry but for me that doesn't cut it, because my Shep doesn't die (by 'doesn't' I mean 'shouldn't'), as that's not my story... I think we should be able to live (more than just taking a breath in some rubble) if we make the right choices and work our asses off. Maybe i'm just wanting too many rainbows, but as choices are supposed to master in these games, I choose rainbows.

Am I just way to selfi- optimistic?

Nope, I feel the same way and would choose rainbows anyday. It's 'choice' that we are fighting for and having a happy ending because we worked hard for it should be a choice rather then the bleak color of death we have been stuck with.

[BCMakoto]

Please, do not quote the full PR thread. We are aware of the thread, and if you want to mention, link it.

[DJBare]

UK fleet on night duty, checked the rations, plenty of coffee, yup, I'm set.

Hold the line with dignity.

[PhoenixDove1]

LPKerberos wrote...

Annaleah wrote...

Stygian1 wrote...

Hold the Line


Are we still doing good guys?

Holding the line...lilbitdrunk but holdin it

Why is everyone drunk? I still have to pilot a cruiser, so I can't drink. Would be a pitty if the heritage flew right into BW headquarter as they announce the DLC, right?

Woo! Just hit $60,000 for the Child's Play donations.

This is
really awesome. It is SO boring for kids in the hospital on chemo/rad
treatments and other stuff. This could seriously improve the morale of a
LOT of kids, and happy kids have better immune systems. You guys are
really doing good here, thank you so much

As I said: Regardless of the outcome, I can sleep knowing I did the right thing. Knowing those 20 $ did not go to Bioware for some weapon DLC, but for people in need.

I agree, I feel better knowing that if my last $20 I spent in regards to Bioware, went to something really good   I would also like to say I am of the sincerest wish that it is not my last bit of money spent in regards to Bioware.

Holding the line.  /salute

[ArmyKnifeX]

 Please don't forget about our message. Read it, support it, and most impotantly - spread it.

We hold grievances with the current ending and EA/BioWare because:

• The game's ending fails to meet what we were promised as consumers.

• The game's ending fails to meet our expectations as fans.

• The response from BioWare needs to change.

• We have jobs, families, responsibilities. We dedicate our time to this cause because we genuinely care about Mass Effect and its story.

• We want to see a product that we, as human beings, as consumers, as fans, and as players can be proud of.

Retake Mass Effect 3 - Hold the line. 

http://social.biowar.../index/10146448 

[Goodwood]

Thanks for keeping this going, ArmyKnife.

Hold the line!

[Welsh Inferno]

DJBare wrote...

UK fleet on night duty, checked the rations, plenty of coffee, yup, I'm set.

Hold the line with dignity.

Low on crumpets? We got plenty left in the Welsh quarter of the Fleet.

[laughing sherpa girl]

Xyalon wrote...

Computim wrote...

Sevantha wrote...

Computim wrote...


They really should have pushed back the release date.. shame they didn't.

Pushing back the release date of a game that's not yet quiet finished and needs a little more time isn't bioware/EAs strong side this year *cough* swtor *cough*

Well if anything good comes out of this I'm pretty sure EA will demand it in the future haha.  Their PR department is probably waking up in cold sweats seeing millions of gamers staring at them holding copies of ME3 over their heads in the dark of the night.

EA is more likely responsible for it being released before it was finished in the first place.

I'm not so certain. the ending as written, is almost perfect for a comic book style ending such as you would see in Dark Horse Comix. That in and of itself makes me suspicious, but adding comments by various muckety mucks from Bioware such as the ones that were quoated on forbes, makes me even more suspicious.

[Death of Seph]

Just watched a little segment on youtube by some guy explaining why the ending was great and we are all wrong. Ended by saying he felt that Bioware was genius for ahem "not giving us the ending we wanted, but giving us the ending we needed".

I respect his views and opinions, but I don't really need the feeling of hollow disapointment that this ending provided.

One thing he did say though was that if you go into the ending with bare minimum war assets then you don't get to choose between red, green or blue space magic. Is set as destroy as standard... Does anyone know if this is true? If so what does it mean?

Guys name on youtube was simongenius1 if anyone else wanted a look into madness.

Holding the line. Somehow...