101103 réponses à ce sujet

[WvStolzing]

Mythandariel wrote...

NPH11 wrote...

 Probably already posted, but I'm about ready to accept this ending as canon 

Malformed Video ID

....what, did you see the original ending?

(yeah, very funny; I know)

[Zulmoka531]

Mythandariel wrote...

I responded to the Yahoo article.

"This is only one person who was unable to keep his frustration in check. The rest of us are keeping a civil tone when addressing our grievances with the way that ME3 ended. We want Bioware to do justice for both itself and the Mass Effect franchise and end it the way it was advertised to end."

I'm just gonna warn anyone who responds to Yahoo ahead of time. Do NOT expect anything civil in response. Commentors on there are some of the worst the internet has to offer.

It's just a shame it's sort of popular. But in order for it to have gotten a spot on there, someone had to pay for it, that much I am sure of.

Modifié par Zulmoka531, 20 mars 2012 - 12:40 .

[Xyalon]

Lol, was idly browsing the Support Bioware Facebook group and came across this:

"I was thoroughly shocked (and mostly impressed) by the ending that I got to experience, and I'm looking forward to seeing the other ending/s on my next run through. Great series, great ending. Leave it as it is"

You poor, poor man. I guess we'll see you here in a few days.

[Death of Seph]

DJBare wrote...

A couple of things I'd like to request from folk, please reduce the pyramid quoting, this is an attempt to keep the thread tidy.

To those calling for Bioware to respond, please give them at least until pax, right now those are people still getting over the sting of the initial feedback on a game they worked hard on.

Back to the fray as sleep once again eludes me.  When is this pax?

[VyseN1]

Well time for the SSV Poconos to sign off. stay civil everyone, stay strong. Hold the line!!

[DJBare]

NPH11 wrote...

 Probably already posted, but I'm about ready to accept this ending as canon 

Your link is broken, at a guess I'd say you missed some characters off the end of the url.

[KeldorKatarn]

Jesus christ this forum has gone nuts. it's hard to even keep track of anything.

So in a probably futile attempt for people to see this without me going doubleposting and getting banned:

I suggest a peace treaty based on a kickstarter project to finance the ending change.

Read details here:

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10276955

Guys and gals, go there and voice your opinion. I really think it might be worth a try. And a lot better than this total fullblown war we're fighting here.

Mass Effect was always about gathering people, forging an alliance to get the impossible done. Even uniting former enemies. Well... this is our chance. This is what my shepard would have suggested.

It's full of risks and prone to failure. But if anybody knows how to beat the odds then it is us... the Shepards.

Modifié par KeldorKatarn, 20 mars 2012 - 12:43 .

[BigglesFlysAgain]

Death of Seph wrote...

DJBare wrote...

A couple of things I'd like to request from folk, please reduce the pyramid quoting, this is an attempt to keep the thread tidy.

To those calling for Bioware to respond, please give them at least until pax, right now those are people still getting over the sting of the initial feedback on a game they worked hard on.

Back to the fray as sleep once again eludes me.  When is this pax?

Penny arcade expo east, 6th till 8th of april IIRC

[-GravityOfLove-]

WvStolzing wrote...

Mythandariel wrote...

NPH11 wrote...

 Probably already posted, but I'm about ready to accept this ending as canon 

Malformed Video ID

....what, did you see the original ending?

(yeah, very funny; I know)

xD Still a better ending then what i got.
Marader Shields wanted to convey his message onto youtube and through you.

[Hydralysk]

Computim wrote...

Hydralysk wrote...

CirusTheVirus666 wrote...

What is up with child's play donations site, its been down all day?! Did someone shut it down?!

It's was down for maintenance, but was only supposed to take 20 min. Frankly I'm worried about this.

Don't be.. we were supposed to have a '20 minute' switch replacement at work the other day, turned into an afternoon without email or internet due to a misconfiguration in one of the boxes... you'd be surprised how many people call your phone when they can't get to youtube ;P

So YOU'RE the one who denied me youtube! Congratulations you've just joined Bioware on The List! Same conditions as them apply to get off of it, make us a better ending for ME3.

Modifié par Hydralysk, 20 mars 2012 - 12:42 .

[Stygian1]

ewwwwww, yeah I just read the yahoo article. The comments below are far more irritating though, to be honest.


"a small, vocal minority" Really, since when has 90-95% been a "small, vocal minority?"

[Computim]

Hydralysk wrote...

Computim wrote...

Hydralysk wrote...

CirusTheVirus666 wrote...

What is up with child's play donations site, its been down all day?! Did someone shut it down?!

It's was down for maintenance, but was only supposed to take 20 min. Frankly I'm worried about this.

Don't be.. we were supposed to have a '20 minute' switch replacement at work the other day, turned into an afternoon without email or internet due to a misconfiguration in one of the boxes... you'd be surprised how many people call your phone when they can't get to youtube ;P

So YOU'RE the one who denied me youtube! Congratulations you've just joined Bioware on The List! Same conditions as them apply to get off it, make us a better ending for ME3.

Fine *shoots the Citadel Kid*.  Better ending supplied.  I'll be in my office.

[18 Brains]

KaiserinKai wrote...

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

Well here's another gaming news venue to cross off the list of "things I'll ever watch again". Goodbye, Loading Ready Run.

http://penny-arcade....es-are-effected

I love how all these outlets paint us as whining complainers. Not one of them can adress the blatent problems with this ending, nor do they ever say why the ending is good beyond "It's Bioware's choice" "It's Art" "Deal with it".

If the ending is so great, tell us why.... Oh right none of them can because it is just that awful.

Come to think of it, not one of the sites/people I've seen online defending the endings have actually said anything about why the ending is good, only belittle those who say otherwise.  The differences in how these arguments are presented is tantamount to the people behind them, with the "entitled" gamers often giving constructive criticism while those against them simply cover their ears and spew insults.

[Alamandorious]

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

Alamandorious wrote...

TheShadowWolf911 wrote...

whats new today?

yahoo smear article, donation site (the whole thing, not just our page) down.

Oh and either EA or CafePress flagged virtually all the pictures used for the shirt designs I had up as copyright infringing.

Ok...you mean the Marauder Shields one?

[Doppelgaenger]

So the following is the mail I want to send to Bioware: CAN SOMEONE PROVIDE THE EMAIL ADDRESS?

Dear Bioware team,


I am frustrated. I really am frustrated. I spend 75€ on a game and over 100 hours playing all three parts and at the end of the experience all I can feel is an emotional disconnect? You dropped the ball. Big time. However, let me explain why I think this is.

First of I have a short list of minor complaints that I was willing to overlook as a loyal customer (My first Bioware game was Baldur's Gate 2). However, in light of the ending of the game there is more that needs changing than the end, specifically the attitude of your company.

1) The Quest log is not working. I do not enjoy it to waste time running around for nothing in a game.

(I bought a collector's edition for a significantly higher price. I found that product to be lacking in a number of ways. Don't think that I would not have spent more on it! However even what I got for 75 € was lacking.)

2) The promised comic is a preview for a comic not a finished product
3) The artbook is a preview for an artbook not a finished product
4) I really had hoped the soundtrack to be a CD
5) The "dog" is useless
6) Why has the patch velcro hooks? Thoose make it almost useless. Was it not intended to be sewn onto something?

7) Tali's face, Jacob and Thane's romance (this I cover from hearesay so excuse me If I am not correct in the Details), and the Strachild/Wintersun metal song affair show lazyness in crafting the product.

(DLC)

8) The day one DLC partially on disc controversy (granted I got that with the CE but regardless), show extremely bad manners toward your fans
9) The Omega DLC can instantly be seen as "missing" content. Sure it might not have been ready (or you might not even have started working on it) but it already sticks out that you will have to buy it. It should have been there in the first place.
10) The first thing after the credits is a message to buy DLC? Is this a bad joke? I will have to think very hard about this in particular.

In short: This behaviour will not fly Bioware. About this alone I am pretty disappointed in you. I think this is exploitation of your customers. You promise but you don't deliver and when you do, you hold parts back on purpose. You would be well advised to change this or it will cost you many customers in the long run. I truly love your products but tell me how should I tell someone that I get basically ripped of by you? I would have loved to show someone the artbook but that preview you got me would make me ashamed if I had to justify to anyone getting the CE for this.

After writing this part down I really thought about just saving my money in the future and to walk away from your company. However, there is still something that I will see through (till): The End

I finished the Dialogue with the "god child" and immediately felt confusion. I felt nothing more. Afther that I completed the ending and went straight to the forums to find out what was wrong. A lot was wrong and still is.

I will now share something with you concerning interactive storytelling. I have a good amount of experience in roleplaying games (pen and paper/larp) as storyteller and as player. This I think is very much akin to interactive storytelling like you do it in your game. I once had a stunning experience that is pretty much akin to what I experienced with the ME 3 ending. A certain adventure (this was written by an author and we had bought it) of the game "The Dark Eye" ended in flat out "tragic" failure. I as a player was upset as hell, not only because the adventure had been annoying and bad in so many ways, but because I had put effort into this only to see how nothing came out of it. I was like "**** this, I could have stayed out of the Orcland (with my character) and nothing would have been different!" There was simply no payoff. This is a lesson to be learned from true roleplaying: When you are the character you want them to succeed. The player becomes in part the figure he is playing. This goes way deeper than the attachement to a character in a movie or a book. You emphazise stronger.

This goes so far that the Vampire the Masquarade Core Rulebook give advice like this: "Acommodate Player expectations: It's their game too, remember. You have to have some kind of idea what type of game the players want to play.", "Don't forget the payoff: If the players work hard and make smart decisions, their characters' success must be in proportion of the challenges they have faced, or they will feel cheated.", and "Don't abuse your power: You are the final arbiter of events. Your word is law, but you can not use this authority to beat the characters into what you want them to do."

The same thing goes for Mass Effect 3.It is an interactive storytelling experience. The player is Commander Shepard. When you force Shepard into the "god Child" choices you betray everything outlined above. You force them (!) into your (!) conclusion and deny them any payoff (!). This does not mean that you are not crafting the story but this is interactive! Shepards fate can simply not be predetermined (obviously the real of the plausible has to set borders here) because that would mean our choices don't matter. (remember what you advertised by the way?). Forcing one ending - and yes 17 or 16 variations of three differently colored explosions leading to almost the entirely same conclusion count as ONE ending – denies the players the story they want to play. You forgot the payoff to. [at this point i wanted to write something mean about the popup at the end but I cut that out because I try to reason here] You just walk over the players work. You have to show them for what they did all this and why it mattered to make choices in the first place.

This is how I describe what is wrong here: You as storytellers have a responsibility to us as players as much as I have the responsibility towards my players. The deep emotional investment needs to be handled carefully. When you start to mistreat your customers and players this will come back to hurt you. This is over all a business relationship. We pay you to be treated right. However, the ending caused me and others much emotional distress. This is not to be taken lightly! Because when you mistreat someone in a roleplaying game (even if not on purpose!) you need to realize that they themselves are partially invested. Let that sink in.

Your customers actual lives an psyche are invested in your products. (If you don't believe me go to your forums and look or ask! I personally felt almost sick for two days and still focus on this one week after the end. God knows I have better thinks to do... maybe not, preventing one other person from going through this is worth more than my stupid science paper) You have a responsibility in an interactive story. In this game series in particular, because interactivity is the central feature. This is true roleplaying. You might not want the responsibilities coming with this but you have them and you need to address them.

So as a customer in this relation I urge you strongly to put out an alternative ending that addresses the grievances of the people in the Forums. I want to like your games I truly do, I want you to continue making games, and I want to buy them and the merchandise for them. I wan't to get invested in your games because you truly did an awesome job with them and provided not only an enjoyable but a meaningful experience. The ending of ME 3 stand in complete contradiction to everything that has come before. Please allow me to still be part of this.
Do not forget: In this relationship profit is strongly connected to brand loyalty and you can not afford to lose this loyalty by abusing it in form of exploitation (10 points above) or bad (interactive) storytelling.

This is my take on this. I apologize for the many errors, especially in punctuation, but this is not my native language.


You should make sure everyone of your employees responsible reads the following articles:


Musings of a Screenwriter: The Ending Thread

http://social.biowar...ndex/10022779/1

This is a screenwriter and from the standpoint of his profession he explains in detail, why Shepard is not a tragic hero and what else is wrong with the endings. This is rather conventional but still an important read!

Why you enjoy art and the one problem with Mass Effect 3

http://www.themetaga...oblem-with.html

This is about why your players felt emotional disconnect and distress. The source is frustration and he explains how your ending fails to deliver emotionally.

This video will also go a long way of helping you to accomplish a better ending (this is not me):

Mass Effect 3 Ending: My Thoughts, What Could Have Been, What Should Have Been



I urge you strongly to take his war asset approach for your ending. Ignore the indoctrination theory, because mental battles are not the ones a player fights. This is about a real battle let us fight it.

Sincerely N.G. W

By the ending I wish to see some day: Keelah se'lai

[-GravityOfLove-]

Xyalon wrote...

Lol, was idly browsing the Support Bioware Facebook group and came across this:

"I was thoroughly shocked (and mostly impressed) by the ending that I got to experience, and I'm looking forward to seeing the other ending/s on my next run through. Great series, great ending. Leave it as it is"

You poor, poor man. I guess we'll see you here in a few days.

xD Let the Shock set in. He'll be back to a functional mental state after he plays it again.

[MaRsHy93]

My stints on the line have been brief so far, apologies, i'll be racking up the hours as of tomorrow, just about to begin a new search for updates in the past 12-15 hours, any news? last i heard was the little fb stunt with Jess responding that there will be a statement on Wednesday.

[Welsh Inferno]

Xyalon wrote...

Lol, was idly browsing the Support Bioware Facebook group and came across this:

"I was thoroughly shocked (and mostly impressed) by the ending that I got to experience, and I'm looking forward to seeing the other ending/s on my next run through. Great series, great ending. Leave it as it is"

You poor, poor man. I guess we'll see you here in a few days.

Ignorance is truly bliss.

[Computim]

Doppelgaenger wrote...

So the following is the mail I want to send to Bioware: CAN SOMEONE PROVIDE THE EMAIL ADDRESS?

Dear Bioware team,

Sincerely N.G. W

By the ending I wish to see some day: Keelah se'lai

Contact@bioware.com be sure to put #RetakeME3 or #RetakeMassEffect3 into the body somewhere so their auto-router puts it in the right mailbox quickly

[Kuranai3]

About the t-shirts, is this the link you guys are talking about? http://www.cafepress...umber=629898912

[Stygian1]

MaRsHy93 wrote...

My stints on the line have been brief so far, apologies, i'll be racking up the hours as of tomorrow, just about to begin a new search for updates in the past 12-15 hours, any news? last i heard was the little fb stunt with Jess responding that there will be a statement on Wednesday.

Check Yahoo. What you find shan't be pretty. 

[Doppelgaenger]

I probably fix some errors first XD

[Xyalon]

SkaldFish wrote...

Alamandorious wrote...

<snip/>

There's a link somewhere in this thread, probably about 100 or so pages back...I think it was either a little before or a little after 1812, with a link to buy T-shirts for the movement ^^

If it was a little before 1812, I guess it's in the overture.

(one has to seize these opportunities when they come along...)

And there was me proud of myself avoiding anything to do with the war of 14-18 a few pages ago....

[WvStolzing]

I'm quite surprised actually, that people aren't making 'historical' jokes based on the page numbers....

[Death of Seph]

BigglesFlysAgain wrote...

Death of Seph wrote...

Back to the fray as sleep once again eludes me.  When is this pax?

Penny arcade expo east, 6th till 8th of april IIRC

Many thanks.  In my dispair I could not work out what this was.